[Rumor Addict]

Here are the new iBooks specs and prices:

$999 iBook G4 12" 1.2GHz 256MB/30G/Combo/AirPort Extreme
$1299 iBook G4 14" 1.33GHz 256MB/60G/Combo/AirPort Extreme
$1499 iBook G4 14" 1.33GHz 256MB/60G/SuperDrive/AirPort Extreme

[Voch]

Very cool. That's AE included, you say?

Voch

[jamil5454]

How come these prices aren't on the apple website yet?

[Rumor Addict]

Originally posted by jamil5454:
How come these prices aren't on the apple website yet?

They will be shortly.

[chabig]

From an ExperCom email:

This morning Apple announced new iBook G4 models! Now with faster processors up to 1.33GHz and AirPort Extreme standard, these models pack even more punch. Even better, the price has been lowered! The high end model now has the SuperDrive standard, and all 14" models have a 60GB hard drive. The stock configurations are:

$999 iBook G4 12" 1.2GHz 256MB/30G/Combo/AirPort Extreme
$1299 iBook G4 14" 1.33GHz 256MB/60G/Combo/AirPort Extreme
$1499 iBook G4 14" 1.33GHz 256MB/60G/SuperDrive/AirPort Extreme

We have found that most of our customers get at least an extra 512MB of RAM, so we are starting off with some great RAM bundles on these iBooks, each with a total of 768MB of RAM at great prices. Now you can run Mac OS X 10.3 Panther and iLife how it is designed to run. And remember, they ship for 1�! Stock is expected soon:

$1059 iBook G4 12" 1.2GHz 768MB/30G/Combo/AirPort Extreme
$1359 iBook G4 14" 1.33GHz 768MB/60G/Combo/AirPort Extreme
$1559 iBook G4 14" 1.33GHz 768MB/60G/SuperDrive/AirPort Extreme
http://www.expercom.com/view_product..._ID=27&AD=MAIL

We also offer great AppleCare bundles on these new iBook models:

$1059 iBook G4 12" 1.2GHz 256MB/30G/Combo/AirPort Extreme w/ AppleCare
$1359 iBook G4 14" 1.33GHz 256MB/60G/Combo/AirPort Extreme w/ AppleCare
$1559 iBook G4 14" 1.33GHz 256MB/60G/SuperDrive/AirPort Extreme w/ AppleCare
http://www.expercom.com/view_product..._ID=27&AD=MAIL

[spotze23]

what about the gpu? is it 10.4 compatible?

[Voch]

Originally posted by spotze23:
what about the gpu? is it 10.4 compatible?

Uh...the previous iBook model was "compatable" but not capable of taking advantage of all or some of the forthcoming Core Video technology.

EDIT: Does 1.33Ghz mean the higher-end iBook has a 167Mhz processor bus now?

[threestain]

GPU is the ATI Mobility 9200, dunno whether or not that's Tiger compatible but its good, no?

But crucially, where are the powerbook updates then? The gap in performance is vastly smaller than the gap in price

[spotze23]

no. it has not the required system to run "core image"
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/core.html
(bottom right)

[Voch]

Originally posted by spotze23:
no. it has not the required system to run "core image"
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/core.html
(bottom right)

Core Image is not a requirement to run 10.4, just like Quartz Extreme is not a requirement to run 10.3. It's just a nicety (unless some future software requires Core Image itself).

You're right in that the video chip was not upgraded, though.

[spotze23]

i hope it will be not as slow as 10.2 on a g3 powerbook. i had to turn off shadows and antialiasing in order to work with it.

i want to buy one because i sold my powerbook.

[Voch]

Originally posted by spotze23:
i hope it will be not as slow as 10.2 on a g3 powerbook. i had to turn off shadows and antialiasing in order to work with it.

i want to buy one because i sold my powerbook.

I'm holding off on a purchase, too. These are nice machines but not too much better than my TiBook (which also can't do Core Image). I may jump on the low-end PowerBook when they're upgraded and it's a significant upgrade. If I were you I'd wait until mid-November to see if the PowerBooks get an upgrade (if they don't it'll be after the new year at the earliest).

I *do* like the included AirPort Extreme and the $100 price drop, though.

EDIT: fixed a typo.

Voch

[Commodus]

Apple was in a tough spot in terms of video upgrades this time around - no one has really made an updated low-end video chipset in the mobile area. Much of everything else is either too hot or too expensive.

And as far as the FSB goes: it's 133 MHz on both 12" and 14" iBooks. It'll probably only go to 167 on the next revision.

[andreas_g4]

The price drop is awesome. Included AE card and 100 $ down. That's better than including a 40 GB harddrive and a more capable video card as standard with the previous price tag.

One could guess that the next iBook generation will sport a CoreImage capable GPU and maybe the rumored color changing enclosure. I hope so, since I will not buy a 4th white plastic iBook�

Bottom line: These machines are very nice laptops. Fast enough for most things (except stuff like Motion etc.), good harddrive capacity (the 60/80 GB BTO options are really a bargain), top of the notch connectivity (cheap bluetooth BTO, AirPort Extreme, FireWire, USB 2, Ethernet, Modem etc.) and - even if I'm tired of the design - still one of the best looking machines on the market. And with that price, they are a no-brainer for most people who are in the market for a new laptop.

[solbo]

I really do not understand the 14 inch iBook. The screen resolution is the same.

Why not just save yourself some cash and get the 12 inch with the same screen real estate?

[Mr Heliums]

Originally posted by solbo:
I really do not understand the 14 inch iBook. The screen resolution is the same.

Why not just save yourself some cash and get the 12 inch with the same screen real estate?

You can't get the SuperDrive with the 12-inch. Which is a big drawback for me.

[d4nth3m4n]

does anyone even know what core image really does? or how bad off we all will be with our non core image video cards?

cos thats about all i hear in this forum anymore- people worried sick about what their computer will do in march when tiger is released.

let me put it to you like this- my 233mhz beige g3 runs panther. fine. if you think a 6 month old ibook will not run tiger you have another thing coming. and whatever this core image magic doodad is, im willing to bet that 15% of everyone in the ibook forum will ever even notice that they are using it or not.

i mean, do you notice that you use or are not using core audio? did iTunes REALLY kick that much more ass once you switched to jaguar?

leave it alone, i dont think apple would steer you wrong on this one- honest. just love your ibook and use it. tiger is still a long ways off.

im sorry but this was really getting to me.

</RANT>

[Voch]

Originally posted by d4nth3m4n:
does anyone even know what core image really does? or how bad off we all will be with our non core image video cards?

I'm assuming it'll be like Quartz Extreme. Nice if you have it. No big deal if you don't.

Apple says: "Core Image automatically scales as appropriate for systems with older graphics cards, for compatibility with any Tiger-compatible Mac."

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally posted by Voch:
I'm assuming it'll be like Quartz Extreme. Nice if you have it. No big deal if you don't.

exactly.

but then i wonder how wise it is anyway to rely solely on the video card for intense manipulation in a laptop where things have much more potential to overheat. ... but maybe thats just me.

[Cadaver]

Originally posted by solbo:
I really do not understand the 14 inch iBook. The screen resolution is the same.

Why not just save yourself some cash and get the 12 inch with the same screen real estate?

Not everyone likes the smaller text on the 12" as compared to a 14"...
My wife has a 12" iBook G3, but she thinks small text like 9 pt is too small on the screen. When we replace her machine, I'm sure will get it with a 14" screen.

[Xeo]

It's stupid that computers they are just releasing won't even support the new technologies in the upcoming OS. I don't understand it. I guess it could be argued that it's similar to the time when Apple still sold G3 computers. The OS and apps took advantage of Altivec but the G3s couldn't take advantage of that. But still, they COULD have used a new graphics card. They've been using this one for a year already now. It's not quite the level of upgrade or design change that going from G3 to G4 was.

[iPoder]

It is too bad that Apple cannot upgrade iBook to a better GPU.

Between better technology and cheaper price, Apple chooses the cheaper price. Apple really needs to compete in the sub-1000 dollars notebook market, so I can fully understand their choice.

[Voch]

Originally posted by iPoder:
Between better technology and cheaper price, Apple chooses the cheaper price. Apple really needs to compete in the sub-1000 dollars notebook market, so I can fully understand their choice.

We'll see what the PowerBook upgrade, if any, holds in store. I'm hoping for something good...

VOch

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by iPoder:
It is too bad that Apple cannot upgrade iBook to a better GPU.

Bla bla. This is low end. You want to tell me what core image will do for you anyway?

[AleroLeanne]

I'm okay with the whole 'core imaging' thing and lack thereof. I'm going to be ordering my iBook tomorrow afternoon from a local store here that sells Macs. I'm so excited!!! This will be my first OSX machine and my first Mac since I bought my Bondi back in September '98.

In another year or so I hope to add a new iMac at home as a main machine so I'll get core imaging then (whatever it may be).

I'm really excited about the new iBook updates though!!! I can't wait to join the iBook group officially!!!

[iPoder]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Bla bla. This is low end. You want to tell me what core image will do for you anyway?

I think that you take my words out of the context.

However, I remember when I got the first generation of white iBook which comes with 8 MB ATI mobility 128, it was basically too slow for serious use with MacOS X after a year.

I don't buy a new computer for only 1 year use, even it is a cheap one. Is it too much to expect that thing still holds up against the new OS's or softwares after 1 year?

Again, I think that Apple makes a right choice (at least for now) to reduce the price instead of including new technology, considering that you can get a decent Windows notebook under 1000 bucks.

[Langdon]

Originally posted by iPoder:

However, I remember when I got the first generation of white iBook which comes with 8 MB ATI mobility 128, it was basically too slow for serious use with MacOS X after a year.

I don't buy a new computer for only 1 year use, even it is a cheap one. Is it too much to expect that thing still holds up against the new OS's or softwares after 1 year?.

Then that was 10.1 which was slow, period.
I wouldn't put the blame on the GPU for that.

[hldan]

Originally posted by iPoder:
It is too bad that Apple cannot upgrade iBook to a better GPU.

Between better technology and cheaper price, Apple chooses the cheaper price. Apple really needs to compete in the sub-1000 dollars notebook market, so I can fully understand their choice.

My fellow poster what exactly do you want, fair price or high end features? The new 12" iBook is as good as you can get in anything right now. Take a good look at the $999 Dell Inspiron link that I posted below. You will get a marginally larger screen but you get intergrated graphics, no CD burner, no wireless card and and not even a fraction of the software included in the iBook and the battery life 1.5 hrs vs. 6 hrs on the iBook.
Damn, give it a rest, this a great machine! You may need a Powerbook for your needs but this new iBook is a winner for most consumers.

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/prod...=19&l=en&s=dhs

[iPoder]

Originally posted by Langdon:
Then that was 10.1 which was slow, period.
I wouldn't put the blame on the GPU for that.

True. But when 10.2 improves the performance by using Quartz Extreme, guess what?

It does not support any GPU with less than 16 MB.

I am not blaming Apple for that. Remember that Apple got slammed with class action lawsuit and settled it later. Basically, whoever bought Mac OS X (which I did) can get a refund (which I didn't) if they are not satisfied with the performance (which I wasn't).

But for buying a computer, I am looking for a future-proof feature sets for at least a period longer than 1 year.

New iBook is a good system for its price. But for now, I am sticking with my future-proof PowerBook.

[iPoder]

I am not quite sure why everyone slams me with my comments.

I basically said that Apple makes a right choice to compete the low end notebook market by choosing not to include better GPU.

I hope that this thread does not become another GForce 5200 thread again.

My fault on not making my point clear.

[zander106]

I don't know if I'm mistaken, but isn't this the THIRD upgrade to iBooks in the last 12 months? They went from G3 to G4 last fall, I believe. Then I bought my G4/800 iBook about 6 months ago, a few weeks before the bump up to 1 GHz. And now it's bumped to 1.2 GHz, with Airport Extreme included by default and more RAM allowed.

I didn't think they'd upgrade the iBooks for another year, but now they've done it twice in two months, and the resale value of my iBook keeps plummeting. I know you shouldn't have buyers remorse about CPU speed, but a 50 percent speed bump in the base model within 6 months is kinda outrageous. I would have liked some advance warning...

[hldan]

Originally posted by iPoder:
I am not quite sure why everyone slams me with my comments.

I basically said that Apple makes a right choice to compete the low end notebook market by choosing not to include better GPU.

I hope that this thread does not become another GForce 5200 thread again.

My fault on not making my point clear.

I was not trying to slam you but what you say here is not what you said previously.
These were your words;
Between better technology and cheaper price, Apple chooses the cheaper price. Apple really needs to compete in the sub-1000 dollars notebook market, so I can fully understand their choice.

I was letting you know that Apple does listen to their customers most of the time and they have finally made the iBook a real competitive product. I used Dell as an example because they are the cheapest of the cheap and Apple is offering features and software on the iBook that would generally result in a higher cost in the PC world. The new iBook is a very competitive sub-$1000 notebook.

[jmatero]

So, with the new iBook...

lets look at the 12" Model:

With the same configuration (RAM, HD, Combo....)

For an additional $600 you can get the PowerBook which gives you:

1. Faster system bus
2. Faster Hard Disk
3. Twice the Video RAM

So the question is, is that worth $600....

For a Gamer who wants an apple 12" laptop, yes it is.

For any other User, not really.

[iPoder]

Originally posted by hldan:
I was letting you know that Apple does listen to their customers most of the time and they have finally made the iBook a real competitive product. I used Dell as an example because they are the cheapest of the cheap and Apple is offering features and software on the iBook that would generally result in a higher cost in the PC world. The new iBook is a very competitive sub-$1000 notebook.

Again, you are taking my words out of the context.

I didn't say that new iBook is not a good machine for under 1000 bucks. I simply stated the reason that Apple chooses to reduce the price instead of including better GPU (higher price). Price threshold US $1000 is a psychological barrier for some potential buyers. That's why Apple tries to push the price range down under 1000 bucks.

I am with you on DELL's machine, but I have long tried not to compare Apple with "orange", no matter how rotten the "orange" is.

[dfiler]

Originally posted by iPoder:
I simply stated the reason that Apple chooses to reduce the price instead of including better GPU (higher price). Price threshold US $1000 is a psychological barrier for some potential buyers. That's why Apple tries to push the price range down under 1000 bucks.

Price is more of an economic barrier than a 'psychological' barrier.

The iBook's GPU is perfect for it's intended market segment. The vast majority of iBook buyers aren't interested in paying extra money so that a year from now, windows occaisionally appear to ripple.

[Langdon]

Originally posted by zander106:
I don't know if I'm mistaken, but isn't this the THIRD upgrade to iBooks in the last 12 months? They went from G3 to G4 last fall, I believe. Then I bought my G4/800 iBook about 6 months ago, a few weeks before the bump up to 1 GHz. And now it's bumped to 1.2 GHz, with Airport Extreme included by default and more RAM allowed.

I didn't think they'd upgrade the iBooks for another year, but now they've done it twice in two months, and the resale value of my iBook keeps plummeting. I know you shouldn't have buyers remorse about CPU speed, but a 50 percent speed bump in the base model within 6 months is kinda outrageous. I would have liked some advance warning...

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
The iBooks update about every six months. It has been this way for a long time. If you didn't know that and bought right before an update you can't blame anyone but yourself because the info was out there.

[im_noahselby]

This revision ended up exactly the way I was expecting it to. As for the graphics card, I know for a *fact*, that if I were in the market looking for a new machine now and the 12" iBook had included a 64MB graphics card, I would have easily went with it over the 12" PowerBook. Easily. Apple knows this well...

I think this is a fair update. AirPort Extreme is now built in. Apple has once again went back to the $999 low end machine price point, which is important. The only dissapointing thing, in my oppinion, is the low end 30GB hard drive they are still using. Apple really needs to bump that up to 40GB.

Noah

[Nodnarb]

Originally posted by zander106:
I don't know if I'm mistaken, but isn't this the THIRD upgrade to iBooks in the last 12 months? They went from G3 to G4 last fall, I believe. Then I bought my G4/800 iBook about 6 months ago, a few weeks before the bump up to 1 GHz. And now it's bumped to 1.2 GHz, with Airport Extreme included by default and more RAM allowed.

I didn't think they'd upgrade the iBooks for another year, but now they've done it twice in two months, and the resale value of my iBook keeps plummeting. I know you shouldn't have buyers remorse about CPU speed, but a 50 percent speed bump in the base model within 6 months is kinda outrageous. I would have liked some advance warning...

God damn Apple, always updating their computers without a personal phone call from Steve!!! The nerve of those guys...

Dude people usually complain about lack of upgrades or crappy upgrades, not to frequent upgrades. I understand what your saying about resale but c'mon are you serious?

I bought an iBook after the 1 Ghz bump and will keep it until either it breaks or becomes useless. Quit your bitchin.

[zander106]

Originally posted by Langdon:
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
The iBooks update about every six months. It has been this way for a long time. If you didn't know that and bought right before an update you can't blame anyone but yourself because the info was out there.

*slaps forehead*

Yeah, actually you're right. I thought the pace had accelerated over the past year, but looking at MacRumors now I see that I am a sucker. And the dumbest thing is that someone had mentioned that section of their site to me around the time I was buying, and I just didn't get around to checking it out. Oh well. At least I maxed out my hard drive and RAM and put in the Airport card, so if I want to upgrade and then resell I'm in an OK position.

I guess the question is, is it worth it to upgrade just to play games at a somewhat better frame rate? Since the video card remains the same, upgrading the CPU will only get me a minor performance increase for most games. The only computer game coming out that would be a must-buy for me anyway would be Sims 2. Other great recent titles (i.e. Knights of the Old Republic) are want-to-buy status but not must-buy for me. I guess that's what my PS2 is for.

[Nodnarb]

Originally posted by zander106:
*slaps forehead*

Yeah, actually you're right. I thought the pace had accelerated over the past year, but looking at MacRumors now I see that I am a sucker. And the dumbest thing is that someone had mentioned that section of their site to me around the time I was buying, and I just didn't get around to checking it out. Oh well. At least I maxed out my hard drive and RAM and put in the Airport card, so if I want to upgrade and then resell I'm in an OK position.

I guess the question is, is it worth it to upgrade just to play games at a somewhat better frame rate? Since the video card remains the same, upgrading the CPU will only get me a minor performance increase for most games. The only computer game coming out that would be a must-buy for me anyway would be Sims 2. Other great recent titles (i.e. Knights of the Old Republic) are want-to-buy status but not must-buy for me. I guess that's what my PS2 is for.

My sister has a 1 Ghz 12 inch iBook and she is also eagerly awaiting the Sims 2 for mac to come out (although we cannot find out when it will.) If you could make a lot of money on the resale of your iBook now, since you have alot of ram etc. then by all means do it and maybe only have to pay $100-$200 for a new iBook (however that is VERY wishful thinking.) Also there is nothing that would make the iBook play games much better besides a small processor boost, which I don't think has that much of an effect on games but I might be wrong. Ram and the video card, I believe, are the two main factors of gameplay but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[AleroLeanne]

I want the Sims 2 as well...that's the only game I'll be purchasing for my iBook. We have a peecee at home for all other games.

I was also looking for a video card update, but oh well.

[El Magnificante]

Slightly OT:

Does anyone know how longer it takes Amazon to sell newly released hardware?

I'd like to purchase a new iBook from Amazon as there is no Sales Tax.

Many thanks.

[minton7]

The graphics card IS the problem. They still include Tony Hawk Skater in the software bundle, which stutters on only 32mb vram (doesn't inspire confidence in your new computer purchase). 1024x768 on the 14" model? That's exactly where the Wallstreet model was at, 6 years ago. I think the most depressing thing about this update is what it means for the powerbook line. If the ibook had 64 megs vram, a higher resolution screen, larger hard drives, faster fsb, it would mean that they are able to make those changes because the powerbooks were getting a significant upgrade. But they didn't, and so they're not.

[d4nth3m4n]

wow, minton that took me a long time to decipher. czech me on this- if they had sped up the iBook line in the way you outlined, then it would be safe to assume that the pBooks were due for an upgrade??

but since that didn't happen you're speculating that the pBooks will stay relatively stagnant for a while?

did i get that right? (and i think your point is totally right on.)

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by Langdon:
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/
The iBooks update about every six months. It has been this way for a long time. If you didn't know that and bought right before an update you can't blame anyone but yourself because the info was out there.

That's like saying it's your fault for being hit by a bomb because the information to build a bomb shelter was there.

[minton7]

Originally posted by d4nth3m4n:

but since that didn't happen you're speculating that the pBooks will stay relatively stagnant for a while?

That's the way it looks. Looking at the powerbook forum, this was a quoted from maccentral:

According to Apple's president of worldwide marketing:

"This new line-up of iBooks, along with the current PowerBooks we have will make-up the complete portable line-up we will be offering for the holidays," said Moody."

That implies Macworld San Francisco in January is the earliest date for a Powerbook update.

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by brandon420506:
My sister has a 1 Ghz 12 inch iBook and she is also eagerly awaiting the Sims 2 for mac to come out (although we cannot find out when it will.) If you could make a lot of money on the resale of your iBook now, since you have alot of ram etc. then by all means do it and maybe only have to pay $100-$200 for a new iBook (however that is VERY wishful thinking.) Also there is nothing that would make the iBook play games much better besides a small processor boost, which I don't think has that much of an effect on games but I might be wrong. Ram and the video card, I believe, are the two main factors of gameplay but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

processor will make a substantial difference in most games

[iPoder]

Originally posted by minton7:
If the ibook had 64 megs vram, a higher resolution screen, larger hard drives, faster fsb, it would mean that they are able to make those changes because the powerbooks were getting a significant upgrade. But they didn't, and so they're not.

I think this is very true. Apple has used the same Radeon 9200 chip in three generations of iBook (12-18 months of product cycle), which is unprecedented.

If Powerbook gets an update to Radeon 9800 soon, I think that iBook can get a Radeon 9600 without overlapping the performance. Look like that we have to wait for a while for PB upgrade.

[A Ghost Is Born]

Originally posted by iPoder:
I think this is very true. Apple has used the same Radeon 9200 chip in three generations of iBook (12-18 months of product cycle), which is unprecedented.

If Powerbook gets an update to Radeon 9800 soon, I think that iBook can get a Radeon 9600 without overlapping the performance. Look like that we have to wait for a while for PB upgrade.

I think that the Apple will likely use the Radeon 9700 mobile as a new standard. That video card is fantastic for mobile performance, battery life, and cooling issues. Maybe a 9800 as an updgrade? I can see the next generation of ibook have the fx5200 go though.

[jamil5454]

Originally posted by brandon420506:
My sister has a 1 Ghz 12 inch iBook and she is also eagerly awaiting the Sims 2 for mac to come out (although we cannot find out when it will.) If you could make a lot of money on the resale of your iBook now, since you have alot of ram etc. then by all means do it and maybe only have to pay $100-$200 for a new iBook (however that is VERY wishful thinking.) Also there is nothing that would make the iBook play games much better besides a small processor boost, which I don't think has that much of an effect on games but I might be wrong. Ram and the video card, I believe, are the two main factors of gameplay but someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, being a PC gamer enthusiast, here are the top things in computers which determine game performance:

1. Video Card (less than 64mb will be a bottleneck in today's games)
2. RAM amount (greater than 768 doesn't usually do much)
3. CPU speed/FSB
4. RAM speed/latency
5. mobo chipset

If you have over 256Mb RAM then the CPU becomes more important. Once you upgrade one thing, usually the slowest part in your system becomes the bottleneck, since games are fairly system-wide stressing. For most efficient price-performance ratio, it's best to have everything in your system at the same level. In other words, you'll see no benefit going from a Rage 128 to a Geforce 6800 if you still have a Pentium II (or early G3).


Tool.