[Zimphire]

Yeah, I don't ever recall saying Sosumi is that great. Many themes are better than it. It was actually the first finished theme out for OS X as far as one not being a Aqua variant.

It took a long time to do, as anyone that was theming in the Public Beta and pre- Public beta days remember.

It's not a big deal to me because it's such a GOOD theme so much as the time I spent on it.

I am thinking about working with mac15 to make a final version and just letting him take it over.

Themeing wasn't what it once was to me. It has lost it's interest with me.

[Makki]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yeah, I don't ever recall saying Sosumi is that great. Many themes are better than it. It was actually the first finished theme out for OS X as far as one not being a Aqua variant.

It took a long time to do, as anyone that was theming in the Public Beta and pre- Public beta days remember.

It's not a big deal to me because it's such a GOOD theme so much as the time I spent on it.

I am thinking about working with mac15 to make a final version and just letting him take it over.

Themeing wasn't what it once was to me. It has lost it's interest with me.

Zimphire to bad we cant rewind time and prevent this kinda poop from happening.

I must say here and now that up until Febrary this year i was a pc user but what among other things made my mind up to purchase a mac was the beaut of theming as Max Rudberg and Kevin Husted already know.

I just want to say the first time i heard of Sosumi was the ported version for windows. i knew i liked this theme right then.

I hope we can get over this unfortunate incident and be friends here im willing to anyway.
look me up on ichat sometime if you want.

Chow 4 now
Makki

[rezonate]

The time involved arguing, one could have re-done the graphics in an evening.

[sixz]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Yeah, I don't ever recall saying Sosumi is that great. Many themes are better than it. It was actually the first finished theme out for OS X as far as one not being a Aqua variant...

Doghouse!


Michael Rabe (Ti) was the first and the
'almighty' (Swizcore) Kevin a close second.

- And they made original themes...

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by sixz:
Doghouse!


Michael Rabe (Ti) was the first and the
'almighty' (Swizcore) Kevin a close second.

- And they made original themes...

You have your timeline misaligned.

Talk to Swiz himself.

[sixz]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You have your timeline misaligned...

http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/index_11.shtml

What other time line are you referring to ?

Originally posted by Zimphire:...It was actually the first finished theme out for OS X as far as one not being a Aqua variant...

[Randman]

If the two of you work together on the theme, will it be changed to sosuus?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by sixz:
http://www.resexcellence.com/themes/index_11.shtml

What other time line are you referring to ?

Heh, you are going by which showed up on there first?

I had been working on Sosumi and had a finished version before I submitted it to ResEx. long before.

again, Ask Swiz if you don't believe me.

Why does it matter anyhow?

I think you have a crush on me.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Randman:
If the two of you work together on the theme, will it be changed to sosuus?

Naw, it will still be Sosumi. From the screenshots I have seen he has updated it to the original specs.

I just want to make some changes to it, and he can re-release it.

[Komisar]

I think this thread should be locked... its just promoting fight after fight after fight... and that should only happen when i post in it...

[sixz]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

...Why does it matter anyhow?

I think you have a crush on me...

Originally posted by Zimphire:...It was actually the first finished theme out for OS X as far as one not being a Aqua variant...

Did you make the very first OSX theme or not ?

I think Michael Rabe of Doghouse fame, has the
honor of being ' the neil armstrong' of the modern
age of 'MacHack' theming.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by sixz:
Did you make the very first OSX theme or not ?

I think Michael Rabe of Doghouse fame, has the
honor of being ' the neil armstrong' of the modern
age of 'MacHack' theming.

Like I said.

I made the first non-Aqua variant theme. That had all the resources changed from the original.

Regardless of what you "think"

BTW, does it really matter? Or are you just being a petty preacher?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Komisar:
I think this thread should be locked... its just promoting fight after fight after fight... and that should only happen when i post in it...

Only one person is really "keeping this going on"

He has a crush on me I think.

[cube3]

Do you want to use my Village People hats icon set Zim, I don't mind?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by cube3:
Do you want to use my Village People hats icon set Zim, I don't mind?

Village People hats?

[cube3]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Village People hats?

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...hreadid=216643

I think they'll slide into the theme like a glove

[sixz]

I think it would be important - for posterity's
sake to know who the first OSX themer was.

If you cannot show any other evidence that is
was really you - you should stop lying, to yourself
and everyone else.

[Makki]

I am getting tired of this crap sixz shut it man and move on got it.

Can a moderator close this dumb thread please.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by sixz:
I think it would be important - for posterity's
sake to know who the first OSX themer was.

First OS THEMER? Probably the guy who made those flat stripeless versions of OS X, and the "grape" look. First themes I remember. I never claimed to be the first OS X themer.

If you cannot show any other evidence that is
was really you - you should stop lying, to yourself
and everyone else.

Again, ask swiz. Ask synotic. Ask the people that were their.

If you can show any proof otherwise, you should really stop calling people liars.

I know I released Sosumi before 2002. I know it was 2001. And I remember it being the first fully done up theme.

Take for example this article from Nov of 2001.

http://www.dailymac.com/content/osx_...dl_sosumi.html

Sosumi has been out for some while but it is only recently that its creator made up an official web page so that we, the unwashed masses, could get our paws on it. Before now, it was mostly passed from person to person and you couldn't tell if you had the latest version or an older one.

It was out months and months before that.

Not only that, I remember a interview swiz did that claimed Sosumi was one of the main themes that got him excited about theming before he started.

Again, ask the people that was in the themeing community from the start in here.

[sixz]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
... I never claimed to be the first OS X themer...

Zimply marvelous. - Glad we were able to clear that up.

[Komisar]

Is it me or has six been trying to piss people off?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by sixz:
Zimply marvelous. - Glad we were able to clear that up.

Clear that up? That was never a claim of mine. If you thought I was claiming that, you weren't paying attention.

[haley]

I will say it again...

zimphire: Could you please post some screeshots of your own progress on Sosumi? I'd like to see how close you are to being done. And if you don't have screeshots, at least let me know.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by haley:
I will say it again...

zimphire: Could you please post some screeshots of your own progress on Sosumi? I'd like to see how close you are to being done. And if you don't have screeshots, at least let me know.

Haley the changes I have made is, I have made the title bar and the menu bar a bit less rounded.

I have cleaned up some of the widgets here and there.

Nothing major.

I am waiting to hear back from mac15. I made the mistake of posting screenshots too earlt before.

Be patient.

[ineedmoresleep]

Sixz - YOUR ZIMPLY THE BREAST!

Or maybe I mean annoying. You see... you think your something great when infact, your just another human being. Basically, what I mean is that your not any better than the next guy, or girl.

So don't act like it

[phillryu]

Zimph and Chris are teaming up to release Sosumi. Argument is over. Case closed. 'Nuf flaming already!

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by phillryu:
Zimph and Chris are teaming up to release Sosumi. Argument is over. Case closed. 'Nuf flaming already!

I have yet to talk to him so nothing is definite yet.

[mac15]

I'm down for that, I've sent Zimphire the file and were talking about it so I think I can safely say Sosumi will be out once again.... I'm not sure when though

[M-Atey]

Maybe the arguement is over or whatever (I'm always late to the party). I didn't read through the whole thread because the same theme kept repeating itself. So I'll just offer myself as a witness to Zimphire's ownership of the Sosumi theme look (not "and feel". That's provided by Aqua anyway) back when he was Sinewave. I still have the files that I modified to lend some ideas to him in helping him make Sosumi (of course ultimately it was up to him to do with the theme what he liked). There a few of us lending ideas that he took into consideration in a professional artist manner. I won't take full credit for the color but the original blue color in my edits before it was tweaked was based off of French Blue from the Mac OS 8 GUI and some preliminary ideas on my side were off of the Mac Man logo. Unfortunately, and I'm not sure if this will give amunition to those who dispute Zimph's originality still, those files are on my 250GB hard drive that went kaput 3 weeks ago and I'll have to get the data off of there at a cost of $300 to $500. But if anything, I'm a witness to what went on. Zimph was one of if not the first themer(s) to make themes for Mac OS X PB (in some of the later releases of the PB of course after themes were seen as possible). All that's asked is to give the proper respect and consideration to the original artist. That's all. Very simple. And if you don't know who did a theme then ask around. Doesn't hurt. Do some detective work if people are uncooperative and give you false leads.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by mac15:
I'm down for that, I've sent Zimphire the file and were talking about it so I think I can safely say Sosumi will be out once again.... I'm not sure when though

That's good. It's always better to work together.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by mac15:
I'm down for that, I've sent Zimphire the file and were talking about it so I think I can safely say Sosumi will be out once again.... I'm not sure when though

[smeger]

I hate to derail this thread even further, but it seems like the place to ask: I remember there was a lot of pioneering theme work in the early days of OS X theming by someone who went by the name "the mexican". This was as I was just beginning to pay attention to OS X theming.

Is this a fictional memory, or was there really such a person? And, if he really existed, did he fall off the face of the planet or is he still in the theming scene under a different name?

[Zimphire]

I remember the guy who you are speaking of.

He was around back when Synotic hung here all the time.

[ambush]

Hmm... I don't get why people want this theme so badly..

It's nothing exciting, and he says he hasn't changed it a lot.

It was good when it was the only usable theme out there, but now it totally sucks.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Wow, and you guys wonder why people stop themeing.

Respect people.. it's not your work.

You never asked, I never gave permission.

Don't be a jerk.

It's YOUR problem if you're too lazy to update it for 10.3. If he wants to do it, he CAN legally do it. Since you have no right to retain copy rights on Apple's copyrighted work.

Anyway, this is all illegal in the first place.

And you never asked Apple for their Extras.rsrc.

Respect people, it's not your work.

You never asked, they never gave your permission.

Don't be a jerk.

[Zimphire]

ambush are you not getting enough attention at home?

Or do you want to do my dishes again?

[ambush]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
ambush are you not getting enough attention at home?

Or do you want to do my dishes again?

Again,

It's YOUR problem if you're too lazy to update it for 10.3. If he wants to do it, he CAN legally do it. Since you have no right to retain copy rights on Apple's copyrighted work.

Anyway, this is all illegal in the first place.

And you never asked Apple for their Extras.rsrc.

Respect people, it's not your work.

You never asked, they never gave your permission.

Don't be a jerk.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ambush:
Again,

It's YOUR problem if you're too lazy to update it for 10.3.

It had nothing to do with laziness.

If he wants to do it, he CAN legally do it. Since you have no right to retain copy rights on Apple's copyrighted work.

I never said I did. No one said otherwise.

This was all about respect.

In the end, everything worked out fine. No need to try to drama things up.

Stop being a jerk.

[ambush]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

It had nothing to do with laziness.
[/b]
I never said I did. No one said otherwise.

This was all about respect.

In the end, everything worked out fine. No need to try to drama things up.

Stop being a jerk. [/B]

Excuse me, you are the one "dramaing" things up here.

Merely updating a theme for the next version of an OS is so not a big deal.

And sorry, but we all thought you just simply did not care anymore.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ambush:
Excuse me, yo are the one"dramaing" things up here.

Eh? Things are all worked out. Everyone involved is happy. You are coming back, trying to rile it back up.

Merely updating a theme for the next version of an OS is so not a big deal.

I agree, esp when you have permission.

And sorry, but we all thought you just simply did not care anymore.

Speak for yourself. A lot knew otherwise as this thread shown.

mac15 made a mistake. We all do it. He was a good guy about it. I am going to eventually when I am done making the changes, give the theme over to him.

[ambush]

that being said, It'll be weird to see the first complete theme running on 10.3... or 10.4?!

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by ambush:
It's YOUR problem if you're too lazy to update it for 10.3. If he wants to do it, he CAN legally do it. Since you have no right to retain copy rights on Apple's copyrighted work.

Anyway, this is all illegal in the first place.

And you never asked Apple for their Extras.rsrc.

Respect people, it's not your work.

You never asked, they never gave your permission.

Don't be a jerk.

Urm... Actually, Zimph can take Sosumi, name it something else, tweak it a little as to retain the look while being original still and use it in an OS all his own and Apple can't do anything about it. He just has to abandon the framwork of Aqua for legal reasons and common sense reasons and use his own framework and just copy paste the raster images over. None of the style belongs to Apple unless Zimph started using the default Aqua look in Sosumi. Windows 98 themes have been made for Kaleidoscope and just because the different parts of the old Mac OS Finder and window schema were temporarily replaced by a Windows 98 theme doesn't mean Apple then owns the look of Windows 98. Heck, many OSes were imitated in Kaleidoscope. Windows 3.x, 9x and XP, themes from *nix based DEs were used, NextStep, the list goes on. And Apple (other than some it aquired through purchases of technology) doesn't own those themes. There's no stopping Zimph from using Sosumi as the GUI basis in another OS as long as he doesn't bring over any of Apple's own code and that does not include raster images (made for scroll bars, close boxes, window frames, and more) that Zimph himself made. Dunno how to explain it any other way.

Oh! And I've always thought that themeing can be a great way to mockup a GUI for another OS if that OS isn't finished yet.

[fireside]

Originally posted by M-Atey:
Urm... Actually, Zimph can take Sosumi, name it something else, tweak it a little as to retain the look while being original still and use it in an OS all his own and Apple can't do anything about it. He just has to abandon the framwork of Aqua for legal reasons and common sense reasons and use his own framework and just copy paste the raster images over. None of the style belongs to Apple unless Zimph started using the default Aqua look in Sosumi. Windows 98 themes have been made for Kaleidoscope and just because the different parts of the old Mac OS Finder and window schema were temporarily replaced by a Windows 98 theme doesn't mean Apple then owns the look of Windows 98. Heck, many OSes were imitated in Kaleidoscope. Windows 3.x, 9x and XP, themes from *nix based DEs were used, NextStep, the list goes on. And Apple (other than some it aquired through purchases of technology) doesn't own those themes. There's no stopping Zimph from using Sosumi as the GUI basis in another OS as long as he doesn't bring over any of Apple's own code and that does not include raster images (made for scroll bars, close boxes, window frames, and more) that Zimph himself made. Dunno how to explain it any other way.

what ambush is trying to say is that Zimph just took the widgets (not the actual widgets mind you) from OS 8-9, and just made a theme of the "Classic" Mac OS feel. while he DID make his own widgets, they still are (and for the most part) the same widgets OS 8-9 used.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by fireside:
what ambush is trying to say is that Zimph just took the widgets (not the actual widgets mind you) from OS 8-9, and just made a theme of the "Classic" Mac OS feel. while he DID make his own widgets, they still are (and for the most part) the same widgets OS 8-9 used.

Oh, those. The close, windowshade and zoom boxes. Well, I can envision several replacements that would harken back to Mac OS 9 but still be original. Really, all Sosumi was was a "what if" Mac OS 9 evolved instead of being replaced. Now, since Apple didn't make any GUI out of the Classis GUI in order to use it with Mac OS X (even the first Mac OS X server was seen with a strictly Classic GUI) there is very little Apple can do to say "Hey that's all ours!" except for the widgets and those can be changed. But what Sosumi is is an homage to the Classic GUI back in the day when Aqua was new and people were uncertain about it (I remember people calling it "WinMac OS 98") and there was a hessitation about abandoning the familiar cool-grey and French Blue color of Mac OS 9. Tweak it a little and it becomes a whole new GUI theme on its own. But that's not the point.

[ambush]

... and correct me if I'm wrong, but the progress bar is the same?

Anyway.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by ambush:
... and correct me if I'm wrong, but the progress bar is the same?

Anyway.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the original Classic theme was a more rounded and shiney cylindrical pole and Sosumi has a slightly curved flat (in both color and appearance) bar. Plus the color of the overall theme is more muted (blacks are grey, dark blues are lighter but still dark) as to give more of a dreamy elegance to the overall appearance of the theme. The ribbing is gone in the thumb levers and scroll bars and title bar. But this is all from memory. If somebody can provide a picture of the current Sosumi version and confirm or not whether all that is right.

[ambush]

Originally posted by M-Atey:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the original Classic theme was a more rounded and shiney cylindrical pole and Sosumi has a slightly curved flat (in both color and appearance) bar. Plus the color of the overall theme is more muted (blacks are grey, dark blues are lighter but still dark) as to give more of a dreamy elegance to the overall appearance of the theme. The ribbing is gone in the thumb levers and scroll bars and title bar. But this is all from memory. If somebody can provide a picture of the current Sosumi version and confirm or not whether all that is right.

I'm sad to announce that's it's still technically 110% illegal.

But nice try.

[M-Atey]

Originally posted by ambush:
I'm sad to announce that's it's still technically 110% illegal.

But nice try.

You keep saying that but do you know by what means is it illegal? Off what do you base this assumption?

[Zimphire]

ambush is just a hater. Ignore him.

[M-Atey]

And BTW, that screenshot of Sosumi that has been posted a while back in this topic, guess when it was taken... 01-08-02. It's 2004 right? http://theme.sosumi.org/

Finally, I want to thank the following people who gave permissions and helped me for all of these;
Sinewave, arhra, Deadzombie, Disciple, Flip-Oh, Judge, Timan and the guys at the neowin forums.