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Is my clutch screwed?
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Paco500
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Nov 3, 2010, 09:03 PM
 
Gearheads out there- I have a problem.

The car is a '02 Golf GTI, 5 speed, 2.0l petrol, ~72,000 miles. Driving up to Manchester for work tonight- last hour or so of the trip, started noticing odd behavior. In gear- not matter which one, if I accelerate, RPMs rise quickly, shoot back down, and then either level off or rise and a "proper" rate to acceleration. The sensation and behavior is almost exactly like quick acceleration in an automatic- RPMs shoot up and then calm down as it shifts into a higher gear. Behavior is the same in all 5 gears.

1) Do you think my clutch is going?
2) If so, would it be very stupid to drive it back home tomorrow (3.5 hours)?
3) Any other thoughts as to what it might be if not clutch?

Thanks- any help appreciated.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 3, 2010, 10:04 PM
 
Your clutch is slipping. I highly advise not driving it; you can cause damage to the flywheel and potentially master cylinder (very costly) by driving with a slipping clutch.
     
Paco500  (op)
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Nov 3, 2010, 10:09 PM
 
F$%^ity FF$%^ F$%^. Unhappy. Thanks for the warning.

It's got a warranty but it pretty much sucks being over 3 hours from home and having this happen.
     
Phileas
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Nov 3, 2010, 10:13 PM
 
Good news is that at this stage it should be a quick and easy fix.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 3, 2010, 10:13 PM
 
Yeah that does suck. Depending on the warranty, the clutch is probably considered a wear-and-tear item so it may not be covered. I'm not sure what the 2.0L is like, but the 1.8T requires you to drop the transmission...
     
phantomdragonz
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Nov 3, 2010, 10:28 PM
 
every clutch I have worked on/seen requires you to drop the tranny.

and here is my advice.

I would drive it back as long as you are on the highway and not slipping it a whole lot. There is some danger in digging the rivets that hold the friction material to the clutch disk into the flywheel but as long as the clutch is not slipping a lot it should not be a huge issue. Definitely not highly recommended but if I lived three hours away from home and I could drive on the highway the entire time, assuming you can hold your speed on the highway without it slipping. If you cant drive it without it slipping then YES, replace it before you drive a lot.

I have seen cars drive for months with slipping clutches and the flywheel did not need anything dramatic.

I say baby it and go home.

Also, having a clutch fail at that milage (assuming its american miles =D) is rare, usually points to driver error and slipping the clutch excessively. But I am used to japanese cars that can go 150k+ miles on a clutch.

-Zach
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 3, 2010, 10:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by phantomdragonz View Post
Also, having a clutch fail at that milage (assuming its american miles =D) is rare, usually points to driver error and slipping the clutch excessively. But I am used to japanese cars that can go 150k+ miles on a clutch.

-Zach
Not for that generation of Golf, when I worked at Audi a ton of employees had Mk IV GTIs; one had a clutch go out as early as 39k. From what I've heard, 100k miles is rare for them.
     
Laminar
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Nov 3, 2010, 10:55 PM
 
I killed a clutch in 20k miles on my Contour. Shouldn't have gone with the stage 1.

     
phantomdragonz
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Nov 3, 2010, 11:00 PM
 
that is one scary engine bay... I much prefer working on 4wd trucks then on cars, but my honda civic is awesome!

VW makes some awesome cars but yikes, that little on a clutch is too bad... I guess thats what you get with a sporty car.

-Zach
     
Laminar
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Nov 3, 2010, 11:10 PM
 
Here's what a clutch friction surface looks like when it's spread all over the inside of a bellhousing:



After:

     
bstone
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Nov 3, 2010, 11:39 PM
 
I am actually a bit surprised with the amount of wrong information that has been given here. One person talked about damaging a Master Cylinder, but that has nothing to do with a clutch (you're thinking the Slave Cylinder). Another says the trans must be dropped. Also wrong, it only has to be separated from the engine and the clutch removed. This can be done with the trans and engine in the vehicle.

Don't continue trying to use the vehicle if your clutch is going. Bring it to a shop that does clutches, but this is a big job.
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
Laminar
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Nov 3, 2010, 11:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by bstone View Post
I am actually a bit surprised with the amount of wrong information that has been given here.
I am actually a bit surprised with the amount of wrong information that has been given here.

One person talked about damaging a Master Cylinder, but that has nothing to do with a clutch (you're thinking the Slave Cylinder).
You can't have a slave cylinder without a master cylinder.

Originally Posted by bstone View Post
Another says the trans must be dropped.
Nope, no one said that. Someone said that a related engine requires the trans to be dropped, and someone else said that other clutch jobs have required a trans drop, but no one said this specific job requires a trans drop.

Also wrong, it only has to be separated from the engine and the clutch removed. This can be done with the trans and engine in the vehicle.
You're basing this on experience with the specific vehicle in question?
     
Paco500  (op)
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Nov 4, 2010, 04:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by phantomdragonz View Post
VW makes some awesome cars but yikes, that little on a clutch is too bad... I guess thats what you get with a sporty car.
It's not sporty at all- it's an 8 valve, 2L overweight petrol sucking genero-mobile. It has no right to wear the GTI badge. It almost universally derided as one of worst GTIs VW ever made. But the price was right and it was available when I needed a car.

I've only had the thing just over a month- last owner must have head a heavy clutch foot.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 4, 2010, 09:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
It almost universally derided as one of worst GTIs VW ever made.
That's why they call it the two-point-slow
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 4, 2010, 09:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
It almost universally derided as one of worst GTIs VW ever made.
Where's diy when you need him.
     
Laminar
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Nov 4, 2010, 10:24 AM
 
dif?
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 4, 2010, 10:24 AM
 
downinflames

Edit: Ah
     
bstone
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
You're basing this on experience with the specific vehicle in question?
I guess you missed the thread where I was discussing my relationship to a garage. At least 2 transmissions are swapped a day. And engines.
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:03 PM
 
How dare he not read every thread!

You're still not being specific at all. Do you have experience with this exact car? Or are you talking about a completely different vehicle?
     
bstone
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
How dare he not read every thread!

You're still not being specific at all. Do you have experience with this exact car? Or are you talking about a completely different vehicle?
My garage does plenty of Golfs. Plenty.
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:14 PM
 
Okay, well then feel free to offer all your knowledge on the subject! Why are you being so vague?
     
bstone
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Okay, well then feel free to offer all your knowledge on the subject! Why are you being so vague?
I am not a transmission specialist, but the Golfs in the shop have had the cluthes replaced without having to drop the trans. That's what I am saying. I don't know how I can possibly get any less vague.
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:19 PM
 
I'm sorry, but that's completely vague. Golfs have multiple power trains across multiple generations. They are not all going to be the same. I know for a fact that the 1.8T must have the transmission dropped.
     
bstone
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:21 PM
 
imitchell, are you looking for a job? If you know so much then I think we have a palce for you.
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:24 PM
 
I really know very little technical details, I just know from very knowledgeable people talking about changing their 1.8T Golf's clutches that they had to drop the transmission, and when I worked at Audi the 1.8T A4 had to have the same. I have no idea about the 2.0L or the VR6.
( Last edited by imitchellg5; Nov 4, 2010 at 02:33 PM. )
     
bstone
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:25 PM
 
So you don't want a job as a transmission specialist?
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:26 PM
 
Ha ha, no. I like the restaurant industry well enough
     
The Final Dakar
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Nov 4, 2010, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
You're still not being specific at all. Do you have experience with this exact car? Or are you talking about a completely different vehicle?
Originally Posted by bstone View Post
My garage does plenty of Golfs. Plenty.
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Okay, well then feel free to offer all your knowledge on the subject! Why are you being so vague?
Originally Posted by bstone View Post
I am not a transmission specialist, but the Golfs in the shop have had the cluthes replaced without having to drop the trans. That's what I am saying. I don't know how I can possibly get any less vague.
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I'm sorry, but that's completely vague. Golfs have multiple power trains across multiple generations. They are not all going to be the same. I know for a fact that the 1.8T must have the transmission dropped.
Originally Posted by bstone View Post
imitchell, are you looking for a job? If you know so much then I think we have a palce for you.

Who needs cash, AM I RITE?
WINK
     
BadKosh
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Nov 4, 2010, 03:54 PM
 
I have an '04 Jetta Wagon.(1.8T) Just had the clutch replaced in May. $1200 bucks for the labor + parts. Mine slipped in 1, 2 and 3! did it for about 2 months. Seems the replacement clutch is a little different than original eqpt.
     
seanc
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Nov 4, 2010, 04:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I killed a clutch in 20k miles on my Contour. Shouldn't have gone with the stage 1.

Wasn't an Exedy was it?
     
Laminar
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Nov 4, 2010, 08:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by bstone View Post
I guess you missed the thread where I was discussing my relationship to a garage. At least 2 transmissions are swapped a day. And engines.
Yeah, and my co-worker's brother's wife is a CPA, but I don't go around telling people how to do their taxes. A vague relationship with a garage means nothing in regards to a specific car.

Originally Posted by seanc View Post
Wasn't an Exedy was it?
SPEC Stage 1. I switched to a SPEC Stage 3 pressure plate and a Clutchnet stage 3 six-puck clutch. It grabbed like no other, but it wasn't fun to drive.
     
bstone
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Nov 4, 2010, 08:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Yeah, and my co-worker's brother's wife is a CPA, but I don't go around telling people how to do their taxes. A vague relationship with a garage means nothing in regards to a specific car.
Oh dude. Later.
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
Laminar
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Nov 4, 2010, 08:08 PM
 
Do you disagree? You think that because you do marketing or something for a garage that you're qualified to talk about specific procedures on specific vehicles?
     
bstone
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Nov 4, 2010, 08:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Do you disagree? You think that because you do marketing or something for a garage that you're qualified to talk about specific procedures on specific vehicles?
It's like this. I spent time at the garage over the summer after having undergone a surgery some months before. I was actually feeling pretty healthy and so I worked there fixing cars. By the end of the summer I was sick again (and just had surgery again last month), but suffice to say I worked on a number of cars. Am I an expert? Oh no. Did I replace transmissions? Yes. Did I replace engines? Yes. Did I do jobs like brakes, oil changes, tune ups, engine diagnosis, ignition diagnosis, radiator work? Yes. I am not there any longer as I am pretty much on my back again, but I think the point is that I have worked as a car mechanic and I have some advanced knowledge. Have a nice night.
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
Laminar
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Nov 4, 2010, 08:27 PM
 
Knowledge specific to the car in question? Or are you trying to extrapolate a summer job into universal knowledge?
     
bstone
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Nov 4, 2010, 08:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Knowledge specific to the car in question? Or are you trying to extrapolate a summer job into universal knowledge?
I bow before your skills as a master, Laminar.
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
Laminar
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Nov 4, 2010, 08:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by bstone View Post
I bow before your skills as a master, Laminar.
What skills? My ability to figure out when someone doesn't know what he or she is talking about?
     
bstone
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Nov 4, 2010, 09:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
What skills? My ability to figure out when someone doesn't know what he or she is talking about?
Emergency Medicine & Urgent Care.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 4, 2010, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by bstone View Post
I bow before your skills as a master, Laminar.
See, all Laminar and I are wondering is if you have SPECIFIC knowledge regarding a Mk IV. 2.0L Golf. It's all good and well that you've gone and worked on cars (and know how to do more than 99% of Americans), but you also have to realise that every car is different, even between trim lines. Like I was saying, I know 100% that the 1.8T Golf must have the tranny dropped to do a new clutch, but I have no idea about the other motors (and the internet seems to be vague).
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 5, 2010, 06:21 AM
 
If the Golf is anything like the T4 van, VW just grabbed whatever parts they still had on the shelves and bunged them together. This isn't specific to transmissions, which are probably fairly consistent throughout a model year/engine type, but anything else - generator (is that what it's called? "light machine" in German), electronics, piping, brakes, axles, even body parts - are just unpredictable, even knowing which factory it was built in and which market it was produced for.

When I had the crash, my mechanic had a bunch of parts that he ordered by specific chassis type number, but wouldn't fit.

FWIW, on my van - a 97 1.9L turbo Diesel - the entire front had to be removed and the engine pulled in order to replace the clutch. Insane.
     
Laminar
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Nov 5, 2010, 09:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
This isn't specific to transmissions, which are probably fairly consistent throughout a model year/engine type, but anything else - generator (is that what it's called? "light machine" in German)
They switched from generators to alternators in the '60s.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 5, 2010, 09:41 AM
 
So the device that uses the engine's rotational energy to charge the battery and power lights and electronics is called "alternator" in English?

Thanks.
     
Laminar
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Nov 5, 2010, 10:39 AM
 
Yep, and it's another fun-filled job on a Contour.





Now you're reminding me why I don't miss that car.
     
   
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