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joltguy · Jun 9, 2005, 02:28 AM

I've been trying for the last couple of days to glean something positive from Apple's transition to Intel. Maybe this is it: Will Java fly under OS X the way it does under x86 Linux or even (gulp) Windows? Java development and deployment on the Mac is wonderful, but Java performance isn't where it should be. At least today it's not. Anyone out there think this situation imrove with the "new" CPUs? That would be spectacular news for us java geeks.

Anyone at WWDC who can do some tests?

I was David B. · Jun 9, 2005, 04:32 AM

Originally Posted by joltguy

I've been trying for the last couple of days to glean something positive from Apple's transition to Intel. Maybe this is it: Will Java fly under OS X the way it does under x86 Linux or even (gulp) Windows? Java development and deployment on the Mac is wonderful, but Java performance isn't where it should be. At least today it's not. Anyone out there think this situation imrove with the "new" CPUs? That would be spectacular news for us java geeks.

Anyone at WWDC who can do some tests?

Someone here once stated that the Apple java performance is handicapped by the big endian architecture ot the ppc. Java targets little endian X86 as the larger market and thus Apple has to correct this for their platform.

I did not check that statement but it sounds very reasonable. If it is true, java would speed up on heart-transplanted macs.

toffe · Jun 9, 2005, 06:05 AM

Funny, i just ordered my fist mac (12" iBook), and then i started wondering, how will the deveolpment of software (i study computer science) be on a mac, i had just hoped/assumed that i was painless.
Then i thougt of this forum, and the first thing i see here is a post saying that "Java development and deployment on the Mac is wonderful," and that's cool

bone666 · Jun 10, 2005, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by I was David B.

Someone here once stated that the Apple java performance is handicapped by the big endian architecture ot the ppc.

The JVM is a Big-Endian machine.

TampaDeveloper · Jun 10, 2005, 11:12 AM

Java works great under OSX, so you should be very happy, toffe. It is slightly slower than windows, imo, but its perfectly useable, especially on current hardware.

Kristoff · Jun 10, 2005, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by I was David B.

Someone here once stated that the Apple java performance is handicapped by the big endian architecture ot the ppc. Java targets little endian X86 as the larger market and thus Apple has to correct this for their platform.

I did not check that statement but it sounds very reasonable. If it is true, java would speed up on heart-transplanted macs.

That is absolutely false.
First of all, the JVM itself is big-endian.
Second of all, Sun's own Sparc processors are big-endian.

Whoever said that was on crack.

ashtoash · Jun 10, 2005, 03:03 PM

Java "seems" slower on OS X because apple uses navite interface widgets. It's simply the interface not the java performance. So it will probably be the same...

Jave is very fast on OS X, but the interface for widgets for it sucks.

I was David B. · Jun 10, 2005, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by ashtoash

Java "seems" slower on OS X because apple uses navite interface widgets. It's simply the interface not the java performance. So it will probably be the same...

Jave is very fast on OS X, but the interface for widgets for it sucks.

Thanks all for the big-little endian clarification. You are indeed right.
The question remains, what has apple done wrong?
Its not the widgets. You can test commandline programs with no gui at all. They are also significantly slower on Macs. And you don't have to use the native OS X widgets. Just configure the ui manager to use metal style. That has little influence on performance.

itistoday · Jun 10, 2005, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by ashtoash

Java "seems" slower on OS X because apple uses navite interface widgets. It's simply the interface not the java performance. So it will probably be the same...

Jave is very fast on OS X, but the interface for widgets for it sucks.

As has been mentioned before in this thread, it's not just the GUI that's slow (and why doesn't Apple pull a Microsoft and make Swing call native UI elements?), it is the actual VM. I was David B. has a thread that clearly shows this. I think more people need to complain to Apple about this.