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Westfoto · Feb 11, 2004, 06:09 PM

This news does not look good for the Mac user at all.

I have been using the Palm desktop before it was palm, remember it was Claris. Now a user of Address Book and iCal, because of iSync. Now this all looks like it could be in jeperty with this news.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/02/11.5.shtml

If the Palm is not going to sync with the Mac then what are we going to use?

HotSync Manager is the important part to this whole puzzel. I hope that this software will still be usable with the Mac System software.

West

goMac · Feb 11, 2004, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Westfoto:
This news does not look good for the Mac user at all.

I have been using the Palm desktop before it was palm, remember it was Claris. Now a user of Address Book and iCal, because of iSync. Now this all looks like it could be in jeperty with this news.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/02/11.5.shtml

If the Palm is not going to sync with the Mac then what are we going to use?

HotSync Manager is the important part to this whole puzzel. I hope that this software will still be usable with the Mac System software.

West

Looks like Mac lost support for Palm OS 6. Very sad news. Its really odd to see Palm doing something like this with the Mac in a bit of a comeback.

I can't say I've used my Palm much recently though.

SupahCoolX · Feb 11, 2004, 07:30 PM

MissingSync from www.markspace.com will provide syncing abilities for future Palms. They currently have software to sync Sony Clies, PocketPCs, etc with Macs.

Nebrie · Feb 11, 2004, 07:37 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if the next version if iSync had support for Palm file installation and conduit support. Palm is prolly just pulling an MS. Nuts to their crappy stuff. Apple just needs to give iCal a speed boost and they're set to go.

Westfoto · Feb 11, 2004, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by Nebrie:
I wouldn't be surprised if the next version if iSync had support for Palm file installation and conduit support. Palm is prolly just pulling an MS. Nuts to their crappy stuff. Apple just needs to give iCal a speed boost and they're set to go.

The other issue is that I still use Palm Desktop software as it can do import and export of different file formats, for data from different sources. Address Book needs more flexiblities, import and export wise also printing wise. This needs to be biltin the software and not with an add on.

West

Westfoto · Feb 11, 2004, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by SupahCoolX:
MissingSync from www.markspace.com will provide syncing abilities for future Palms. They currently have software to sync Sony Clies, PocketPCs, etc with Macs.

Yes I do know about this and it is wonderful. The killer is that now we as Mac users will have to pay for one more item that is in current software now. That is not good.

West

JHromadka · Feb 11, 2004, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by Nebrie:
I wouldn't be surprised if the next version if iSync had support for Palm file installation and conduit support. Palm is prolly just pulling an MS. Nuts to their crappy stuff. Apple just needs to give iCal a speed boost and they're set to go.

What good will that do when no conduits will be available for 3rd-party applications?

Westfoto · Feb 11, 2004, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by JHromadka:
What good will that do when no conduits will be available for 3rd-party applications?

The conduits is what make everything 'talk' to everything else, So That is the Important part.

This almost looks as though Apple is coming out with something!?

JoeyA · Feb 12, 2004, 11:48 AM

I stumbled on this news yesterday as well and found it very upsetting so I started a discussion about it at the Apple forums here .

What I've discovered is that, by and large, not many Mac users seem too concerned about it. I mean to me it's a big deal, I use my Tungsten T3 every day and its an essential part of my business. I connect to my Bluetooth phone to check my e-mail or websites while on the run, use the calendar and contacts to manage my schedule, use the MP3 player to listen to my music and the picture and movie viewers to view my media.

This is why I was looking forward to upgrading the T3 to Cobalt should the upgrade ever arrive. But now I know it won't work, not with my Mac. Even worse NO new Palm devices will work with my Mac -ever.

This effectively leaves business Mac users with essentially no options in handhelds. Not without extra cash for a third party apps which probably won't even support my typical setup (entourage sync, etc.). Horrible news for the Mac in the enterprise, IMHO. And based on the general reaction to this news those of us concerned are in the minority. Was this even on the Mac news sites?

eevyl · Feb 12, 2004, 12:48 PM

I am also shocked by this.

In fact I am about to sell my m130 and start saving for a full featured mobile-phone and say bye bye to PDAs. A nice mobile phone and my PowerBook will do the work.

Bye bye Palm...

Cadaver · Feb 12, 2004, 01:34 PM

So much for Apple's "digital hub" concept.

jasonsRX7 · Feb 12, 2004, 01:56 PM

Haven't Apple users always been very supportive of the Palm platform? I'm surprised by this as well. I use my Treo 600 with my Macs constantly, and if future versions of it didn't work, I certainly wouldn't switch computing platforms just to make a PDA work.

Westfoto · Feb 12, 2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by jasonsRX7:
Haven't Apple users always been very supportive of the Palm platform? I'm surprised by this as well. I use my Treo 600 with my Macs constantly, and if future versions of it didn't work, I certainly wouldn't switch computing platforms just to make a PDA work.

This is why it makes my so upset by the news that I see.

And no the news is not on the News sites of the Mac platform.

that is bad news.

Macanoid · Feb 12, 2004, 04:44 PM

conspiracy theory nr 01:

Apple decided to buy NeXT instead of BeOS. Palm bought BeOS, including Jean Louie Gastley (at a much lower price!). Palm 6 includes Be technologies. JLG decided to screw Apple!

Just my two cents!

nobitacu · Feb 12, 2004, 05:00 PM

Oh, I'm sure Apple will figure out a way to fix this, or else the guys who made missingsync will make a sync software for mac for the Palm OS 6.

Ming

RooneyX · Feb 12, 2004, 09:44 PM

I've had four Palms. All were crap.

Terri · Feb 12, 2004, 09:54 PM

Originally posted by RooneyX:
I've had four Palms. All were crap.

Same here. I now own a SonyEricsson T610 phone which works perfect including sync. It only does contacts and calender but that is about all I ever used my Palm for anyway.

Personally I think Palm is dieing with phones getting Palm like features.

RooneyX · Feb 12, 2004, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by Terri:
Same here. I now own a SonyEricsson T610 phone which works perfect including sync. It only does contacts and calender but that is about all I ever used my Palm for anyway.

Personally I think Palm is dieing with phones getting Palm like features.

I got the T610 too. Nice. Scribbing stuff on a PDA bores me.

Terri · Feb 12, 2004, 10:09 PM

Not to mention that everything also syncs with my iPod. I can even drag and drop files to my ipod that I can then read on its screen.

Dougmc · Feb 12, 2004, 10:19 PM

The irony is that Palms are currently sold in Apple Stores. Will they continue selling a product that doesn't support their product?

Truly disappointing. I actively use my Palm in conjunction with my PowerBook.

Westfoto · Feb 13, 2004, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by Dougmc:
The irony is that Palms are currently sold in Apple Stores. Will they continue selling a product that doesn't support their product?

Truly disappointing. I actively use my Palm in conjunction with my PowerBook.

So how quick will Apple pull this product from the stores?

Simon · Feb 13, 2004, 03:38 AM

OK, maybe I'm just not getting it, but what is all the fuss about?

I use a Treo daily. I have a Mac. Assuming Palm would drop Mac support all together. What do we need?

- Sync Palm Datebook with iCal
- Sync Palm Address Database with OS X Address Book
- Ability to upload pdb files to the Plam to install apps on the PDA
- Some app that allows us to backup the PDA on the Mac

Now, the first two points can be provided by Apple for free with iSync. The last two points could probably be covered by some little freeware app. I used to sync Palms with my Linux machines and there you just use a little free software since Palm doesn't supply any Linux support either. But it worked fine and it was 100% free.

So, what am I missing? What's the big deal? Why should we all start to panic?

eevyl · Feb 13, 2004, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by Simon:
So, what am I missing? What's the big deal? Why should we all start to panic?

The deal is this:

Palm is not developing sync software nor Palm Desktop for the Mac.

So, unless Apple or other make a sync software, you won't be able to sync a Palm OS Cobalt powered device with iSync. Maybe Apple jumps and develop the entire sync software, but I really doubt it. Actually they hook up on Palm's own sync software from iSync. Then there is the Mark/Space shareware option, an added value that seems to don't offer the same capabilities as the traditional sync software for Palm.

Then you have third party conduits, from apps like FileMaker and the like, that when developed for Palm OS Cobalt, very likely no one will develop a sync software for an unsupported platform. There are already few apps that offer Mac conduits, despite being supported. From now on, I guess the number will be zero.

So, unless some magic happens, I see Palm devices dying for the Mac.

michaelb · Feb 13, 2004, 06:44 AM

Originally posted by Macanoid:
Apple decided to buy NeXT instead of BeOS. Palm bought BeOS, including Jean Louie Gastley.

Were you making a pun here or is that genuinely what you thought his name was?! (Jean-Louis Gass�e)

It's a funny malapropism if so.

Anyway, back on topic, I felt aggrieved enough a few days ago to write Larry and tell him what I thought...

Larry Slotnick <[email protected]>
Chief Products Officer
PalmSource

Dear Larry,

I am extremely disappointed to read that you no longer intend to support the Mac OS with your future products.

As a Palm user since 1996, having owned six iterations of them up to my current T3 and recommended them to countless numbers of buyers (both Mac and PC users), I feel that my support of the Palm platform may now be drawing to an end.

I am aware that 3rd party solution(s) may be available to provide the missing synch support, just as they exist for using Pocket PC devices on a Mac. However, by not providing "out of the box" support for the Mac platform, you are sending a clear message to both the press and the Mac-using community that you believe the platform no longer worth your attention.

I strongly urge you to reconsider this short-sighted and potentially damaging move. You may not be aware that many of us Mac users do actually talk to PC users and influence their PDA buying decisions. To jettison the minority Mac platform because of its low marketshare is one thing, but to cause them to become disgusted advocates for competing products is another.

Please reconsider your strategy.

Sincerely,

Michael ------
Palm user since '96

NeXTLoop · Feb 13, 2004, 12:05 PM

I too wrote a letter to PalmSource urging them to reconsider this ill-conceived decision. It appears that enough of us wrote them to warrant a response. Here it is from Macworld UK...

In a statement, supplied to Macworld UK, the company states: "PalmSource is fortunate to have a great Palm OS developer community who provide solutions for Mac compatibility today.

"Palm OS provides an open and flexible architecture and allows its licensees to decide whether to ship a Mac compatibility solution with their Palm Powered device. One such solution is provided by Mark/Space."

The company chose to stress that the relationship between Apple and Palm has not ended, saying: "We are continuing our efforts with Apple to provide compatibility between Palm OS and Macintosh."

Gator Lager · Feb 13, 2004, 12:49 PM

ah who needs palm anyway. check this out. its easier to grab and drop the image to your desktop.

http://aiw1.uspto.gov:80/.aiw?docid=...526RS=AN/apple

here is the main page

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...le&RS=AN/apple

Oneota · Feb 13, 2004, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Gator Lager:
ah who needs palm anyway. check this out. its easier to grab and drop the image to your desktop.

http://aiw1.uspto.gov:80/.aiw?docid=...526RS=AN/apple

here is the main page

http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...le&RS=AN/apple

I can't get that craphole of a website to display the whole image. Y'wanna stick that image somewhere and post a link to it?

Westfoto · Feb 13, 2004, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Oneota:
I can't get that craphole of a website to display the whole image. Y'wanna stick that image somewhere and post a link to it?

I scolled though the image and it looks like a Newton to me.

The date did seam to be odd though. We Mac users all want Apple to make a new verssion of the Newton but would it ever happen is the real question.

Gator Lager · Feb 13, 2004, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Oneota:
I can't get that craphole of a website to display the whole image. Y'wanna stick that image somewhere and post a link to it?

yes i know, it's a pain in the butt site.
but drag the image to your desktop.
or click on the second link and then click on
images. 3rd image i think

Gator Lager · Feb 13, 2004, 01:25 PM

Originally posted by Westfoto:
I scolled though the image and it looks like a Newton to me.

The date did seam to be odd though. We Mac users all want Apple to make a new verssion of the Newton but would it ever happen is the real question.

that's the patent applied for page. june of 2003
and yes, WE want our PDA's.

eevyl · Feb 13, 2004, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by NeXTLoop:
I too wrote a letter to PalmSource urging them to reconsider this ill-conceived decision. It appears that enough of us wrote them to warrant a response. Here it is from Macworld UK...

In a statement, supplied to Macworld UK, the company states: "PalmSource is fortunate to have a great Palm OS developer community who provide solutions for Mac compatibility today.

"Palm OS provides an open and flexible architecture and allows its licensees to decide whether to ship a Mac compatibility solution with their Palm Powered device. One such solution is provided by Mark/Space."

The company chose to stress that the relationship between Apple and Palm has not ended, saying: "We are continuing our efforts with Apple to provide compatibility between Palm OS and Macintosh."

That statement is for me a try to extinquish a fire with a glass of water. They just say the same but a little more vague if possible.

michaelb · Feb 13, 2004, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by eevyl:
That statement is for me a try to extinquish a fire with a glass of water. They just say the same but a little more vague if possible.

Yeah, to me it just says, "Don't fret you little Mac cry babies, you'll still be able to use our new Palms via 3rd party hacks. We're just not going to be the ones to help you do it. In fact, we're going to be just like Microsoft when it comes to Macs."

The Mark/Space solution may indeed turn out to be okay. They've succeeded to some extent getting the Pocket PC integrated with iSync:

But to keep Mac users away from Pocket PC, Palm will need to show they have a clearly better product.

(I think it still is, in large part due to the Tungsten T3's very impressive screen and simplicity of the Palm interface.)

JoeyA · Feb 14, 2004, 12:04 PM

I just stumbled on a discussion about Palm dropping Mac support on PalmInfoCenter, a popular handheld site. It's a pretty lengthy debate and actually contains a few posts from a representative of Palm. It might be worth the look:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6547

brachiator · Feb 16, 2004, 04:24 AM

Have you read that patent app? It looks pretty impressive from the OS side, not to mention the return of the Newton. Very intriguing. Thanks for the link Gator...

art_director · Feb 16, 2004, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by brachiator:

Have you read that patent app? It looks pretty impressive from the OS side, not to mention the return of the Newton. Very intriguing. Thanks for the link Gator...

screw the palm os, pocket pc puts it to shame.

i was a palm user, then i tried a friend's ppc. it's faster, smarter and more robust than any of the palm devices i've owned. now i view palm devices as calculators on steroids.

viva la pocket pc and pocket mac!!!!

Macanoid · Feb 16, 2004, 09:33 AM

I prefer the Sony Ericsson P900 over any palm of PocketPC. It works well, looks good and intergrations with the various iApps works great thanks to iSyncs - what more do you want?

art_director · Feb 16, 2004, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by Macanoid:
I prefer the Sony Ericsson P900 over any palm of PocketPC. It works well, looks good and intergrations with the various iApps works great thanks to iSyncs - what more do you want?

well, well, well...another p900 + mac user. where have you been?

i have that device and am having a beotch of a time trying to get it to sync with my powerbook. i have the two paired. they recognize one another but no sync possible with isync.

have any hints, tips or advice?

thx.

p.s. still prefer the pocket pc and would *gladly* trade my p900 for an xda 02 / imate.

jasonsRX7 · Feb 16, 2004, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Macanoid:
I prefer the Sony Ericsson P900 over any palm of PocketPC. It works well, looks good and intergrations with the various iApps works great thanks to iSyncs - what more do you want?

I don't care so much what OS my device has, as long as it's a phone, has a qwerty keyboard, can surf the net, send emails, and allow my laptop to get online thru it. Right now, I have a Treo 600 and love it. Before that I had a Treo 300, and loved it, too. Unfortunately, they're the only devices that can do everything I want. I'd love to drop Palm for dropping the Mac, but I'll have to wait until someone else comes up with something as good as the Treo 600.

BuonRotto · Feb 16, 2004, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by JoeyA:
I just stumbled on a discussion about Palm dropping Mac support on PalmInfoCenter, a popular handheld site. It's a pretty lengthy debate and actually contains a few posts from a representative of Palm. It might be worth the look:

http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_story.asp?ID=6547

Ugh. If that's what is considered a Palm "commnunity," good riddance to them as much as Palm! Debate isn't the word for what that is. It's just another excuse for inane penis measurements and zealotry on both sides of the Mac/PC fence. I found all of four intelligent posts in the whole 6 page thread. Who wants to be a part of that?

JoeyA · Feb 16, 2004, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
Ugh. If that's what is considered a Palm "commnunity," good riddance to them as much as Palm! Debate isn't the word for what that is. It's just another excuse for inane penis measurements and zealotry on both sides of the Mac/PC fence. I found all of four intelligent posts in the whole 6 page thread. Who wants to be a part of that?

Yeah perhaps I should have put a disclaimer on there that it is a fairly hostile thread, especially after the first few posts. Regardless in between the downright venomous comments (most by that smiley guy) there are a select few gems. And, if nothing else, it does give some insight as to how the general populace feels about this decision (200+posts and counting).