[brassplayersrock²]

Alpha was a sleeper who somehow learned his trigger phrase and learned how to turn it on and off. hence why in the "college campus drug" episode, the boss lady and the programmer were glad that the female sleeper hadn't finished the "turn on" phrase.

my 2¢

[Mac User #001]

I should probably stop reading this thread until I catch up on the past two or three episodes I've missed. They're recorded, waiting for me...

[Eriamjh]

Cancelled

Cancelled

Why not air an episode they made? Is it on Hulu?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Cancelled

Cancelled

Why not air an episode they made? Is it on Hulu?

Not canceled. They're just not going to air an episode. The same thing happened on Buffy and it didn't get canceled for two more seasons. Fox denies that it's canceled and all reports indicate that the sets are still up, meaning it's on the bubble at worst. Supposedly episode 12 was the actual season finale and the last episode "took the show in a different direction" or something like that, and it's pretty obvious that Fox thinks Whedon is incapable of writing a show himself, so I guess they want to request that season 2 (if they decide to order it) not go whatever way episode 13 suggested it was going to.

BTW, for another example of a season finale like that, check out Buffy season 4. The season's overarching plotline was tied up in episode 21, and the season finale was a dream episode that foreshadowed a bunch of stuff in the next season.

[Eug]

I wouldn't be surprised if they cancel it. It did almost as bad as Terminator for ratings. Meanwhile, the truly abysmal show Ghost Whisperer got a rating of 2.5.

'Terminator' finale flat; 'Dollhouse' matches low

Meanwhile Dollhouse slipped a tenth. Dollhouse received a 1.4 rating among and 3.6 million viewers. This matches the show's March 27 season low in the adult demo, though it's not any kind of dramatic change (the show has been trading in the 1.4-1.6 range for the past few weeks).

[Chuckit]

I wouldn't be surprised to see it canceled either, but I think Fox is reluctant to cancel Dollhouse. There are already a lot of people who hate their guts for canceling another Joss Whedon show in the exact same time slot (and then that series got really popular, which doesn't help Fox's case), so they want to be really sure before they kill this one.

If they cancel this series and it blows up, it'll be like, "You know, in certain older civilized cultures, when men failed as entirely as you have, they would throw themselves on their swords."

[Eriamjh]

I hope it's not cancelled. It just needs the audience to find it. I do enjoy watching it more than Battlestar Galacti-bore (which I loved, BTW).

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

I hope it's not cancelled. It just needs the audience to find it. I do enjoy watching it more than Battlestar Galacti-bore (which I loved, BTW).

I think Dollhouse got OK half-way through and then got really stupid with episodes like Echoes.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I wouldn't be surprised to see it canceled either, but I think Fox is reluctant to cancel Dollhouse. There are already a lot of people who hate their guts for canceling another Joss Whedon show in the exact same time slot (and then that series got really popular, which doesn't help Fox's case), so they want to be really sure before they kill this one.

Joss Whedon himself thinks that it's likely that Dollhouse will be cancelled.

Series creator Joss Whedon, speaking on a "Dr. Horrible" panel Tuesday night at the Paley Festival, said the possibility of the show receiving a second-season pickup was, well, rather grim.

The chances are "not very good," he said, according to SciFiWire.com. "Obviously our numbers are pretty soft ... but we live in hope.

And what was that other show are you talking about? If it's Firefly, I'm not sure why people keep bringing that up. Yeah, Fox screwed with it, but I'm not surprised at all that show didn't have much of a mainstream TV following. Geek cult popularity does not a mainstream primetime TV show make.

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Geek cult popularity does not a mainstream primetime TV show make.

no, but shows can still be hits without being mainstream. Buffy, Heroes, XFiles, etc.

Fox needs to learn to trust the brainpower they are hiring. Micromanaging Joss Whedon just seems like stupidity in action.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Eug 

And what was that other show are you talking about? If it's Firefly, I'm not sure why people keep bringing that up.

People keep mentioning it because it got canceled and then became one of the most popular sci-fi series ever, thus demonstrating that it was Fox's gross ineptitude at handling the series rather than any lack of quality in the show that led to its ratings troubles.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

no, but shows can still be hits without being mainstream. Buffy, Heroes, XFiles, etc.

Fox needs to learn to trust the brainpower they are hiring. Micromanaging Joss Whedon just seems like stupidity in action.

Buffy was fairly mainstream IMO. Heroes and X-Files weren't as much, but then again the only good season of Heroes is the first one. Heroes and X-Files are still more mainstream than Firefly though.

I'm not saying a show has to necessarily be mainstream though. I'm just saying that Firefly didn't do well because 1) Fox screwed it up AND 2) it wasn't that great. The fact that it wasn't mainstream was the final nail in the coffin.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

People keep mentioning it because it got canceled and then became one of the most popular sci-fi series ever

Hmmm... Most people I know have never even heard of Firefly. They've heard of BSG and even Terminator: TSCC, but not Firefly.

[Mac User #001]

Battlestar Galactica had more advertising than any major movie and Terminator: TSCC is well, Terminator, so has obvious popularity behind it.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Hmmm... Most people I know have never even heard of Firefly. They've heard of BSG and even Terminator: TSCC, but not Firefly.

I said popular, not famous in mainstream culture in 2009. I honestly don't know the exact numbers, but compare any season of Galactica to Firefly in DVD sales and I think you'll be surprised who's winning.

[Eug]

That last episode wasn't too bad, as (mostly) a standalone episode. Probably too late to save the show though.

[reader50]

I liked it. We get to see another type of mission engagement - it's not all escort jobs.

I tried to check the various November IDs vs the last name on Katie's tombstone. The tombstone didn't have a last name, making it impossible to tell the real ID (if shown) vs the ones created for engagements. Stinkers.

Victor's accent changes with different imprints too. We've seen Russian, American, and the latest one which I didn't place.

Something I noticed in the last ep (#8) on the 2nd watching, around 5 minutes in. Echo is undergoing medical exam after her dominatrix mission. Boyd walks in, and the doctor quickly moves to blank her computer screen. If you're quick on freezing the right frame, you can catch what she's hiding.

Dominic was an NSA mole, but sending helpful messages to Ballard is out of character for him. And the NSA has lots of other ways to send notes to Ballard. The notes have claimed they were the only way to reach him. And it is implied during the first note, when Boyd called Topher out of the room, that someone slipped in physically to plant the note. With the mod chip, it could have been done remotely.

So I'm thinking it was an NSA chip, but it was someone else sending messages to Ballard. Someone who is still in place. Echo is off the suspect list since November carried a note too. The doctor seems less likely, considering the material she was hiding.

[Eug]

So what was she hiding? Pr0n site?

[Chuckit]

Close.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by reader50 

So I'm thinking it was an NSA chip, but it was someone else sending messages to Ballard.

They already had 2 reveals of "someone Ballard knows is actually a doll." I wouldn't be surprised at all if there is a second reveal about "who's the mole" too. Maybe there will even be two Alphas

[reader50]

I had another thought. When Echo got remote-wiped during the art-vault caper. Everyone thought Alpha, now I'm thinking it was Dominic.

He used his mod chip to throw in an extra parameter: dump the Taffy personality if you hear this trigger sequence over the phone. Dominic had tried to kill Echo before, failed, and got fingered by DeWitt for it. So throw in a kill switch on a subsequent engagement, one that will leave her surrounded by thieves and dropped into the hands of armed security.

This gets around several problems. Alpha no longer has to be able to do what even Topher can't - a true remote wipe. It's not the real thing - it was set up in advance. It also gets around the problem of breaking into their phone security. As head of security, Dominic already had access to the Dollhouse phone system. Plus he had motive and opportunity.

[Chuckit]

I'm pretty sure Dominic was not the only mole. If you recall, Dominic admitted he was spying on the Dollhouse, but said he wasn't trying to take it down — and he never changed that story, even when it was clear it wouldn't help him. That makes it sound like somebody else sent the messages, because those definitely are aimed at bringing it down.

I still think it's Saunders.

[gorfnn]

Boyd is totally the mole.
Ballard is totally Alpha. (But he doesn't know it.)

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by gorfnn 

Boyd is totally the mole.
Ballard is totally Alpha. (But he doesn't know it.)

So totally wrong.

Surprise episode tonight (I didn't know about it).

We meet Alpha. One more episode next week. Check your Tivos.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Surprise episode tonight (I didn't know about it).

We meet Alpha. One more episode next week. Check your Tivos.

WTF. It wasn't mentioned on Fox's website this afternoon, so I didn't bother recording it. Thank Alpha for your post and for time-shifting though. Luckily those west coasters are 3 hours behind.

[Cold Warrior]

Originally Posted by Eug 

WTF. It wasn't mentioned on Fox's website this afternoon, so I didn't bother recording it. Thank Alpha for your post and for time-shifting though. Luckily those west coasters are 3 hours behind.

I never use the networks' sites to keep up with airings or episodes. Epguides.com is good, as is their network tv grid. The widget TV Forecast is also great for keeping an eye on what's airing.

[Mac User #001]

Can't you just set your DVR to record all new episodes of a series? That's what I do.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Mac User #001 

Can't you just set your DVR to record all new episodes of a series? That's what I do.

Not everybody has DVR. (I do, and I knew anyway, but that's because I actually follow that sort of stuff.)

Loved the episode. Even though I already knew about Alpha's identity, it was still a great reveal. Just walk up, slash-slash, "Hello." And Alan Tudyk was both hilarious and scary — not a combo you get very often. For a little while, he almost had me convinced that the spoilers were red herrings. (I changed my mind again after he hid behind Ballard when Topher walked up. It was like, "Ah-ha, nobody can see him yet or the reveal will come too soon.")

I hope this show gets renewed. It's so much better than its first few episodes suggested it would be.

[andi*pandi]

very interesting. Explains why it was so "easy" for ballard to find the dollhouse, he was led.

Although, I'm not so sure how I feel about "I am like a leaf on the w-SLASH SLASH SLASH," Alan Tudyk is pulling it off. He was freaking me out in the last scenes. I wasn't spoiled so it was a big surprise.

He has also been working out A LOT.

[Mac User #001]

Originally Posted by Eug 

WTF. It wasn't mentioned on Fox's website this afternoon, so I didn't bother recording it. Thank Alpha for your post and for time-shifting though. Luckily those west coasters are 3 hours behind.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Not everybody has DVR. (I do, and I knew anyway, but that's because I actually follow that sort of stuff.)

I hope this show gets renewed. It's so much better than its first few episodes suggested it would be.

Right, but he did, as he mentioned that he "didn't bother recording it."

I do hope it stays on too. It's definitely caught my attention.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Although, I'm not so sure how I feel about "I am like a leaf on the w-SLASH SLASH SLASH," Alan Tudyk is pulling it off. He was freaking me out in the last scenes. I wasn't spoiled so it was a big surprise.

Yea, Alan Tudyk pulled it off big time. Something totally different from what I consider his best roles to be (Firefly, A Knights Tale)

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Mac User #001 

Right, but he did, as he mentioned that he "didn't bother recording it."

There are recording devices that aren't DVRs. I have some friends who still do it like that. They don't want to spend the money (and/or time) it takes to get a decent DVR.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

very interesting. Explains why it was so "easy" for ballard to find the dollhouse, he was led.

What I don't understand is why Alpha went through all of this. Why did he need to lead Ballard there? Why register himself as a enviro-designer guy? Since he knows everything already, why not just go there himself?

Originally Posted by Mac User #001 

Can't you just set your DVR to record all new episodes of a series? That's what I do.

Yes, but I had stopped it, because for some reason I thought the season had ended as some episodes weren't going to be aired. Also, I have to make sure it records longer, because shows sometimes go past the scheduled time, due to lateness of other shows.

[Salty]

I still remember when Wash showed up I was like dude! Then he turned out to be Alpha and I was like DUDE AGAIN!

I confess I hated the first episode, thought the second was OK but weird, hated the third, can't even remember what the fourth was. But right around the time Victor got revealed as a Doll I got a bit more hope for it. Since then I'm really starting to like it. It's not as strong as Firefly because Firefly was more character driven, and not even that you cared about them, they were just awesome!

[Mac User #001]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

There are recording devices that aren't DVRs. I have some friends who still do it like that. They don't want to spend the money (and/or time) it takes to get a decent DVR.

Oh. I didn't know that.

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yes, but I had stopped it, because for some reason I thought the season had ended as some episodes weren't going to be aired. Also, I have to make sure it records longer, because shows sometimes go past the scheduled time, due to lateness of other shows.

Oh I hate that... Happens on FOX all the time because of sports... And the DVR only records the time slot the show is set to air in.

Originally Posted by Salty 

I still remember when Wash showed up I was like dude! Then he turned out to be Alpha and I was like DUDE AGAIN!

I confess I hated the first episode, thought the second was OK but weird, hated the third, can't even remember what the fourth was. But right around the time Victor got revealed as a Doll I got a bit more hope for it. Since then I'm really starting to like it. It's not as strong as Firefly because Firefly was more character driven, and not even that you cared about them, they were just awesome!

It's amazing what playing a character can do to a guy. To so many people in the world, and to a ton of people on this forum, that guy is Wash, not Alan.

It may not be as good as Firefly (that even possible?) but its still a great show in its own. And the episodes are airing in order. (Actually, I should check that...)

[Salty]

Haha they are airing in order, I actually watched the first 8 over the course of two nights after getting my appendix out. The T3s helped me get through the pain of the first few episodes (ba dum ching) but after that it was good. I confess if I'd been watching it on TV I'd probably have stopped if the next episode wasn't readily available.

In other news I have a man crush on Doctor Horrible.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Eug 

What I don't understand is why Alpha went through all of this. Why did he need to lead Ballard there? Why register himself as a enviro-designer guy? Since he knows everything already, why not just go there himself?

The next episode might have a more complicated answer, but I figured he wanted a partner who would do most of the high-profile stuff to eliminate any risk to himself. Alpha basically just hid in a room and waited for Echo to come to him while Ballard distracted the real threats, Adelle and Boyd, who would have raised all hell if they'd known it wasn't just a bumbling ex-FBI guy with a knight-in-shining-armor complex.

[Salty]

Either that or he was just bored?

[exca1ibur]

Simple. A 'Fall guy'. Every good villain should have one. Makes things a lot easier with less risk. Plus Alpha's fall guy has tunnel vision and doesn't see the big picture about anything, he just walks in without thinking. So he's the perfect distraction to toss into the fire.

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Salty 

In other news I have a man crush on Doctor Horrible.

Funny you should mention him. He's getting a DVD release and the commentary on the disc is written and played by Whedon in rhyme! I heard some on NPR and it was hilarious.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

Funny you should mention him. He's getting a DVD release and the commentary on the disc is written and played by Whedon in rhyme! I heard some on NPR and it was hilarious.

It's already out. Commentary! The Musical is hilarious. Also, tidbit from the non-musical commentary track: The woman in the sunglasses sitting next to the groupies during "Everyone's A Hero" is Sarah Michelle Gellar.

[Chuckit]

D'oh, somebody finally told me something that made the confusing parts in this past episode click. I can't believe I missed it. Big spoiler if you didn't figure it out either:

 

Doctor Saunders is an active. In the scene with Victor/Dominick, when they're going to force him to help, he looks to everybody in the room for help, "Topher! Adelle!" Then he looks at Saunders and says, "Whiskey!" She thinks he wants booze instead of the sedative shot, but it's actually her name. All of the actives are named after letters in the NATO alphabet — E is Echo, V is Victor, S is Sierra, etc. And W is Whiskey, as in "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot." That's also why Alpha doesn't believe she wanted to be a doctor — she didn't before she was imprinted. I think maybe he was testing if she could composite like he and Echo do.

[andi*pandi]

yep, I missed that too, but I had suspicions about

 

why she never left the House, and the Alpha scene seemed to strongly imply it.

[reader50]

Interesting. It's a plausible fit for the clues. My own thoughts lately

 

Alpha didn't composite, he was made by the NSA.

Dominic added the mod chip to the chair at some point - and he was made head of security before Alpha went rogue. So maybe the mod chip got added before then. Creating Alpha created an ongoing security problem for the Dollhouse, which would make Dominic more prominent in matters going forwards. As well as push the Dollhouse towards needing outside help. The NSA probably wants sleeper spies, if they could get control of a Dollhouse.

We've seen Echo after the mod chip was removed - the most she exhibits is flashbacks - bleedthrough of previous experiences. No examples of past skill sets bleeding through, only memories. Alpha behaves more like a custom imprint.

[Salty]

Oh wow I didn't catch when he called her Wiskey! Good job on that one!

[Cold Warrior]

Thanks for the tip, that's really cool. Also a great performance by wash.

[reader50]

Whoa.

My guesses have not been very accurate on this series. It's proven more interesting this way.

Oh yeah. They need to renew Dollhouse. They need to really bad.

[Chuckit]

Preorder the DVD. Also tell Fox how much you liked the series.

Alan Tudyk was great as Alpha. He was actually scary, and still managed to make the humor work. "You hit me with a pipe!" I'm sorry to see him go.

I feel like a lot of stuff must have been cut from this episode. They busted out November and Sierra, PIs, and then absolutely nothing happened to them.

[andi*pandi]

yep, it did feel like two eps in one. After all the buildup over alpha, I could have used more alpha, and less crazy alpha too. They lost him, really? I was also confused because all we'd been hinted at said that Alpha composited on his own, which seems more mysterious and freaky. That it was an accident takes the suspense out of other doll's ability to "composite."

Despite any critique I enjoyed it and want more.

[Eriamjh]

I think Topher knows it's really his fault Alpha that Alpha composited. His diagnostic of all the personalities become an imprint.

However, Alpha was already showing signs of his criminal background coming through as Echo was remembering between imprints. So if the show survives another season, maybe we'll still see something interesting.

Unfortunately, I won't buying the DVD. The show is good, but not enough to own. Few shows really are.

[Salty]

Good enough to pirate

I enjoyed the show though, hope fox picks it up again but they probably won't. That said they did kinda wrap it all up in season one... which was smart considering Joss's luck. I'd have liked it to be a bit more dramatic than a mix up in the chair too though.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

I think Topher knows it's really his fault Alpha that Alpha composited. His diagnostic of all the personalities become an imprint.

Yeah, he feels a lot of guilt, that's why he programmed the doctor to hate him.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Preorder the DVD. Also tell Fox how much you liked the series.

We all know how well that worked out for Firefly.