[besson3c]

Turtle: name a known Muslim leader?

That's exactly my point: people wouldn't know where to look, where to listen, and who these leaders would be even if this was being reported by the mainstream media.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Turtle: name a known Muslim leader?

That's exactly my point: people wouldn't know where to look, where to listen, and who these leaders would be even if this was being reported by the mainstream media.

Ayatollah Kahmeini, for example.

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Ayatollah Kahmeini, for example.

-t

I think it's safe to say that Joe Sixpack has absolutely zero clue who Ruhollah Khomeini is, what he represents, why he is relevant, etc. When was the last time he was discussed on cable news?

[Doofy]

<biting lip>

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I think it's safe to say that Joe Sixpack has absolutely zero clue who Ruhollah Khomeini is, what he represents, why he is relevant, etc. When was the last time he was discussed on cable news?

Exactly. Too many Joe Sixpacks don't even know who their own representatives in Congress are, let alone who Khomeini is.

[Chongo]

Khomeini has been dead for 20 years. He said Khamenei, who took over after Khomeini died.

[Doofy]

*smackdown*

[Wiskedjak]

Of course, one Muslim leader = all Muslim leaders.

[imitchellg5]

All black people look the same.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Khomeini has been dead for 20 years. He said Khamenei, who took over after Khomeini died.

That was classic!

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

That was classic!

Believe me, as a second year Arabic student, these mistakes are so easy and infuriating to make!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Believe me, as a second year Arabic student, these mistakes are so easy and infuriating to make!

Mistakes like that are only easy to make if one assumes the following position with regard to world affairs:



It's a world knowledge thing, not an unholy gibberish thing.

[imitchellg5]

So, what's the difference between khalifa and khalafa? See what I mean? Maybe it's because my brain is overloaded, but it's certainly a challenge to keep it all straight at times.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

So, what's the difference between khalifa and khalafa?

Same difference between kingdom and king? I don't know - I don't speak the unholy gibberish... ...I just keep track of what's happening in the World.

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

See what I mean? Maybe it's because my brain is overloaded, but it's certainly a challenge to keep it all straight at times.

Fair enough.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Same difference between kingdom and king? I don't know - I don't speak the unholy gibberish... ...I just keep track of what's happening in the World.

Why is a foreign language "unholy gibberish?"

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Why is a foreign language "unholy gibberish?"

Just arabic. Not the others. Although Welsh nearly qualifies.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Believe me, as a second year Arabic student, these mistakes are so easy and infuriating to make!

It wasn't the mistake, it was the subsequent smarmy insistence that *everyone else* doesn't know who that is!" that made it a classic.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

It wasn't the mistake, it was the subsequent smarmy insistence that *everyone else* doesn't know who that is!" that made it a classic.

Sorry for the confusion, I simply quoted you because you were the last reply to the original statement, but I was in response to the original error.

[turtle777]

I just sit back and LOL

-t

[OAW]

Well I hope "Pastor" Terry Jones is satisfied ...

At least eleven people were killed, including some United Nations officials, today in Afghanistan, apparently in response to Florida pastor Terry Jones burning the Koran last month, Afghan police and U.N. officials said.

The deaths followed a protest march in the northern Afghan city of Mazar-i-Sharif today against the Koran burning last month in which Jones supervised while another pastor, Wayne Sapp, soaked the Koran in kerosene and burned it after finding it "guilty" in a mock trial. Among the dead were U.N. staff and Napalese security guards who were trying to protect the staff, police and U.N. officials said.

U.N. Staffers Killed Over Terry Jones Koran Burning, U.N. Says - ABC News



OAW

[The Final Dakar]

I didn't realize he actually went through with it.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I didn't realize he actually went through with it.

He backed down last year under intense public pressure. Apparently after his attention-whoring backfired on him he decided to fade back into obscurity. Guess he went through with it last month in a much more "low key" fashion. Word got out anyway it would seem.

OAW

[The Final Dakar]

Low key indeed.

[turtle777]

Satisfied ? Only 11 people dead ?

Heck, he's gonna do daily burnings now.

-t

[Chongo]

Just another excuse to kill infidels. All it takes is for some to accuse a person of blasphemy. BBC News - Pakistan Christians bury murdered leader Shahbaz Bhatti

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Just another excuse to kill infidels.

Things we shouldn't do: Give them excuses.

[OAW]

Seems to be getting worse ....

Afghan protesters angered by the burning of a Koran by an obscure U.S. pastor killed up to 20 U.N. staff, beheading two foreigners, when they over-ran a compound in a normally peaceful northern city on Friday in the worst ever attack on the U.N. in Afghanistan.

At least eight foreigners were among the dead after attackers took out security guards, burned parts of the compound and climbed up blast walls to topple a guard tower, said Lal Mohammad Ahmadzai, a police spokesman for the northern region.

Five protesters were also killed and around 20 wounded.

Up to 20 U.N. staff killed in north Afghan city | Reuters

I'm sure we'll be seeing Pastor Jones doing media interviews shortly proclaiming that he has no responsibility whatsoever for these lives that were lost.

OAW

[turtle777]

Of course, he is FULLY responsible, he has forced those Afghan protesters at gun point to start killing foreigners.
They had no say in that matter. We know that they are really peaceful people. They hate having to kill people, but they had no choice.

-t

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Things we shouldn't do: Give them excuses.

That's impossible since their main "excuse" is that we're not Muslim.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Of course, he is FULLY responsible, he has forced those Afghan protesters at gun point to start killing foreigners.
They had no say in that matter. We know that they are really peaceful people. They hate having to kill people, but they had no choice.

-t

Well I think you understand the point I was making. After all it was you who said this ....

Originally Posted by turtle77

I really don't see how this is relevant in this context.

Are you saying that expecting from that pastor NOT to burn the Quran would require him bending over backwards to not offend Muslims ?

Is burning the Quran such a normal, daily thing that it would inconvenience the pastor if he would NOT do it ?

I'd say that in this case, this guy is bending over backwards (i.e. doing whatever it takes) to achieve the exact opposite of "not offending the Muslims". He does something extraordinary, going out of his way to offend.

-t

My point is that the people doing the killing are responsible for their actions. Without question. But since Pastor Jones ... as you yourself acknowledged ... is "bending over backwards (i.e. doing whatever it takes) to achieve the exact opposite of "not offending the Muslims" then he bears some responsibility too. If I know that I'm dealing with someone with a serious screw loose ... I already know ... upfront ... that if I call him on the phone and say "Boo!" he's so crazy he will run outside and kill the first person he sees. Well if I decide to make that call anyway because I want to make a point about "freedom of speech" or because I have a chip on my shoulder or just because I want to be an asshole ... then I can't sit up and act like I had nothing whatsoever to do with it when someone ends up taking a dirt nap. Because I was the one who chose to set the ball in motion. That's all I'm saying.

OAW

[OAW]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

That's impossible since their main "excuse" is that we're not Muslim.

That's a load of BS and you know it. Were weren't Muslim all last week and no foreigners got their heads cut off in Afghanistan now did they? These UN staffers were killed because this nutjob preacher in Florida decided that it would be a good idea to incite a bunch of religious fundamentalist extremists. I've said it before and I'll say it again ....

If you stir up a hornet's nest don't be surprised if you get stung.

But I suppose since Cult Leader Pastor Jones et al aren't the ones being stung that makes it all good huh?

OAW

[turtle777]

Let's just be clear: Pastor Jones is an idiot.
And anyone who acts in response to him.

Who's responsible ? Everyone for their own action.

-t

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Let's just be clear: Pastor Jones is an idiot.
And anyone who acts in response to him.

Who's responsible ? Everyone for their own action.

-t

This.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Let's just be clear: Pastor Jones is an idiot.
And anyone who acts in response to him.

Who's responsible ? Everyone for their own action.

-t

Agreed.

OAW

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by OAW 

That's a load of BS and you know it.
OAW

9 out of 10 Imams would disagree.

[k2director]

The pastor is hardly an idiot for burning something that he disagrees with, in his own country which he knows affords him every right to do so. He's simply exercising a right, a right that has to be exercised because when it's not actually exercised it eventually becomes lost. If anything, his act was closer to heroic than idiotic.

He didn't even burn the Koran in an outwardly public way, seeking the maximum amount of attention. He didn't march up to a mosque, and burn it in front of their doors. He didn't drive to Dearborn Michigan, which is heavily Muslim, and do it there. No, instead, he burned it in his own church, in front of his own congregation.

He also did it despite practically ZERO news coverage. When he burned it, he knew there were no major network TV cameras rolling, no big stories to be printed in all the papers the next day.

And yet in the eyes of so many people, he should not have done it because he knew that it would upset a bunch of murderous Muslims, and that there would be violent consequences? Since when do a bunch of Muslim thugs get to define what an American's non-violent behavior is? That's exactly what so many of you are doing....saying "well, the Muslim mob is unreasonable, but because they're unreasonable, the pastor should have not expressed himself in a very American way. He should have allowed the unreasonable Muslim mob to muzzle him, even though in America people burn and desecrate all sorts of things in protest-- the American flag, images of Jesus, politicians in effigy, etc. etc.

Personally, I THANK Jones for being strong enough to go through with this, despite all the people that said he shouldn't. It was ridiculous that General Petraeus tried to talk Jones out of the burning a few months ago, saying it risked American lives. Our country's whole mission in Afghanistan risks American lives -- the reason we're risking those lives is to move Afghanistan away from the intolerant behavior of its past (under the Taliban), where someone with a different idea, religion, or sex can so easily become a target for violence and oppression. If one person can't burn a Koran on the other side of the world without setting a Muslim mob on a murderous rampage, then what lessons is Afghanistan really learning? Is it changing at all? I don't think it is, which is why Petraeus tries to suppress a single non-violent American, rather than reminding America that Afghanistan may still be the same old intolerant, Dark Ages shithole, despite all our work there.

What's really shocking about this whole story is the amount of hatred being poured on the Pastor by Americans themselves. One of many examples is the New York Times comments section on this story, where it seems every other comment is calling for the Pastor to be brought up on manslaughter or murder charges! These are the same people that would defend the Ground-Zero mosque on the grounds of "freedom of religion". The other comments all call Jones a terrible, horrible person for burning a book he thought was evil. This is from the same group that would see a Palestinian activist burning an American flag, and shrug, saying "that's his right." All hypocrites.

I'm so glad Jones did this. I'm glad that one little guy didn't allow the tyranny of the majority to silence him. I'm also glad because I think the Muslim streets reaction helps reinforce Jones point about Islam. I don't see thousands of Jews, Christians, Buddhists, or Hindus taking to the streets and murdering innocent people when some guy burns their holy book half the world away....

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

9 out of 10 Imams would disagree.

9 out of 10 stereotypes about Muslims are made up to encourage hatred.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by k2director 

The pastor is hardly an idiot for burning something that he disagrees with, in his own country which he knows affords him every right to do so. He's simply exercising a right, a right that has to be exercised because when it's not actually exercised it eventually becomes lost. If anything, his act was closer to heroic than idiotic.

Where is that line drawn? Are you okay with the Westboro military funeral protests? The KKK?

Sure they are exercising their rights, but there are many ways to exercise these rights. Do you feel that there is a line - maybe not a legal one, but a *********gery line?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by k2director 

The pastor is hardly an idiot for burning something that he disagrees with, in his own country which he knows affords him every right to do so. He's simply exercising a right, a right that has to be exercised because when it's not actually exercised it eventually becomes lost. If anything, his act was closer to heroic than idiotic.

Sure, he exercised his right to behave like a f*cking idiot.

Just because it's ok or lawful to do something doesn't make it wise or prudent.

You know, you can eat spaghetti with shit sauce, it's your darn right.
You're still a moron.

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Sure, he exercised his right to behave like a f*cking idiot.

Just because it's ok or lawful to do something doesn't make it wise or prudent.

You know, you can eat spaghetti with money sauce, it's your darn right.
You're still a moron.

-t

Can you really get spaghetti with money sauce?

Why is it that *********gery is censored but money isn't?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by k2director 

The pastor is hardly an idiot for burning something that he disagrees with, in his own country which he knows affords him every right to do so. He's simply exercising a right, a right that has to be exercised because when it's not actually exercised it eventually becomes lost. If anything, his act was closer to heroic than idiotic.

Yes, he was certainly within his rights and he certainly can't be held directly responsible for the murders that happened in response to his actions.

But, what were his goals and what exactly did he accomplish? Aside from inciting a bunch of radical Muslims to murder innocents?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Sure, he exercised his right to behave like a f*cking idiot.

QFT

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by k2director 

He's simply exercising a right, a right that has to be exercised because when it's not actually exercised it eventually becomes lost.

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing anyone has ever said.

You have the right to set yourself on fire until you burn to death too. Off you go then.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

9 out of 10 stereotypes about Muslims are made up to encourage hatred.

I'll take her word over yours

[imitchellg5]

Ohh! Linking to some random JPEG on the internet totally proves you are correct!

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

Ohh! Linking to some random JPEG on the internet totally proves you are correct!

You can hear her for yourself.
[Because They Hate] - C-SPAN Video Library
[Because They Hate] - C-SPAN Video Library

[imitchellg5]

I'm sorry, but one person's experience in one very specific part of the world does not translate into the United States falling under the rule of those who have power in that part of the world.

[turtle777]

You aren't sorry. Stop pretending.

-t

[imitchellg5]

That's true.

Change "Islam" and "religion" to "Communism" and "society" and see if that message seems familiar at all.

[Big Mac]

Radical Islam is to the 21st Century (currently) what Nazism and Stalinsim were to the 20th Century. I don't know if you appreciate the stakes, mitchell.