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Podolsky · Dec 26, 2005, 01:25 PM

I have been using a PB 17 inch for about 2 years as a desktop replacement. But now I want to get a Power Mac or an iMac. In the past I did a lot of application development (image mining systems) but I don't that right now. Yet, I would like to have a really quick system that could last me at least 2 years and allow me to do whatever I want. My questions are: 1. What kind of time is right now to be buying a PowerMac? 2. Is there any rumors that there might be a dual processor iMac coming out anytime soon? I really like the iMac form-factor and don't see myself getting to wigged out about wanting to put in any third-party graphics cards. Yet, I am definitely interested in a multi-processor system.

Thanks!

mduell · Dec 26, 2005, 04:25 PM

Now is the right time to buy a PowerMac. They were just updated 2 months ago, so they next update probably won't come for 4 or 5 months (although it may be longer, since Apple's hardware folks are doing so much work with the Intel transition).

I haven't seen any dual core iMac rumors, but with competitors low-end dual core chips in the $250-350 range I think that a dual core iMac isn't out of the question.

Podolsky · Dec 26, 2005, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Now is the right time to buy a PowerMac. They were just updated 2 months ago, so they next update probably won't come for 4 or 5 months (although it may be longer, since Apple's hardware folks are doing so much work with the Intel transition).

I haven't seen any dual core iMac rumors, but with competitors low-end dual core chips in the $250-350 range I think that a dual core iMac isn't out of the question.

Thank you for the input. While I have you. Do you have an opinion between a new dual 2.3 v. the previouls dual 2.7? Again, I am not going to be interested in wanting to update graphics cards - I am not that hard core, but I do want to start with a basic screamer.

Thanks

Lateralus · Dec 26, 2005, 07:08 PM

The Dual 2.7GHz is going to be a good bit faster of a machine all around. And even if upgrading the graphics card does become a desire down the line, you'll be able to upgrade beyond the stock 9650 to at least an X850 XT, depending on what does or doesn't become available in the future.

mduell · Dec 26, 2005, 08:42 PM

Since you're only talking about keeping it for 2 years and you don't care about the graphics, I'll say the 2.7 too.
The only reason to get the 2.3 would be if you forsee a need for a card that is available in PCIe but not PCI-X (which is rare, if it even exists at all) or if you're going to get a lot of RAM, like 6-16GB (2.3 has a higher ceiling and DDR2 is a bit cheaper than DDR).

Podolsky · Dec 31, 2005, 07:54 PM

I bought the dual 2.7ghz (refurbed) from Apple for $2149 US. I got new 23 inch cinema from Apple and I am putting 2.5mb of Ram. Everything else is stock. Oh yeah, I got an Aiport Extreme card to but amy just go Ethernet (which is faster?).

My plan is to have this machine until the MacIntels reach Rev B or C and than get a Quad or whatever they up to by then. I figure I will have the 2.7 for 2-3 years. If it feels slow at any point, I will get a faster graphics card and max out the ram.....but I think this will be a fine machine for quite a while.

Thank you for any input.

hldan · Jan 1, 2006, 12:45 AM

Macworld is just 10 days away, regardless if the PowerMacs were just updated Apple is notorious for surprising us with a new model of something they just updated in October. Be smart and wait at least until January 10th.

dantewaters · Jan 1, 2006, 03:17 AM

I too would like to buy a Dual 2.3 but was wondering if it was any bit faster than the 1.8
found here: http://tinyurl.com/b7fld

I'm not too concerned with the mactels I just need a system that can run my video business efficient and since you guys talked about head room with the 2.3 I feel that's my best choice.

How much ram is enough to get started where I can see a big difference in performance?

Podolsky · Jan 1, 2006, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by hldan

Macworld is just 10 days away, regardless if the PowerMacs were just updated Apple is notorious for surprising us with a new model of something they just updated in October. Be smart and wait at least until January 10th.

Point well taken but I needed to make my best decision by the end of 2005. The 14 day RMA grace period for returns will cover me since I don't get the products until Tuesday the third. Ya never know what could be announced! That is for sure. I suppose a dual processor 23 inch iMac would have me change thinking about changing my mind. In the mean time I will watch the keynote and see what might be coming along.....

hldan · Jan 1, 2006, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Podolsky

Point well taken but I needed to make my best decision by the end of 2005. The 14 day RMA grace period for returns will cover me since I don't get the products until Tuesday the third. Ya never know what could be announced! That is for sure. I suppose a dual processor 23 inch iMac would have me change thinking about changing my mind. In the mean time I will watch the keynote and see what might be coming along.....

If you are buying it from either Apple online or their local retail store don't count on that 14 day return policy working out for you. If you buy now and then change your mind in 14 days Apple will hit you with a restock fee of 10%. At that point you have burned yourself for not having patience. Now if you have an immediate need for a computer go for it or buy at Fry's and then return it after Macworld if you see something better.

Lateralus · Jan 1, 2006, 02:09 PM

Buy now. There's no way in hell Apple is going to update the Power Macs this quickly after a revision.

mduell · Jan 1, 2006, 06:36 PM

I'm with Lateralus... the shortest PowerMac update cycles are about 5 months, and we're only 2.5 months into this cycle.

Podolsky · Jan 3, 2006, 01:24 PM

My Apple refurbed dual 2.7 just arrived, files are transfering now. I have never bought refurbed before. Any suggestions on how I can do some quick, rigorous stress test of the system? This way I can find out quickly if there are any problems. Thanks.

timmerk · Jan 5, 2006, 05:57 AM

ahhhhh! you couldnt wait the 10 days!!!

Lateralus · Jan 5, 2006, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by timmerk

ahhhhh! you couldnt wait the 10 days!!!

Why should he have?

Chito · Jan 5, 2006, 03:07 PM

Congrats on the new 2.7! Good choice. Regardless of what you buy or when, something new is always around the corner. Enjoy your mac.
You don't need to do a stress test on your refurb. It's got the same warranty as a new one and you can buy Applecare to get you through the 3 years you might own it.
If you insist though run AHT and do the full ram test...it'll take awhile but it might set you at ease over buying refurb.
Like I said......Enjoy!

demibob · Jan 5, 2006, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Why should he have?

just in case

Podolsky · Jan 5, 2006, 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by Chito

Congrats on the new 2.7! Good choice. Regardless of what you buy or when, something new is always around the corner. Enjoy your mac.
You don't need to do a stress test on your refurb. It's got the same warranty as a new one and you can buy Applecare to get you through the 3 years you might own it.
If you insist though run AHT and do the full ram test...it'll take awhile but it might set you at ease over buying refurb.
Like I said......Enjoy!

Thanks - So far I am SO PLEASED WITH THIS MACHINE. It has been rock solid with up-time now going on 60 hours and I have put it through some pretty intense paces. I have some apps that I wrote that I know how to get at least one or the other of the CPUs to run at 100% and I have done that for about a total of 6 hours. So, I think that has given me some piece of mind. I was also so very pleasantly surprised to find that the machine arrived with 1 GB of memory installed! It was only supposed to come with 512. So that makes me happy and now I have a total of 3 GB which I feel should be enough. I about a year, or if and when it feels in need of a speed bump I might add more ram or upgrade the hard drive and or video card. But coming from a 1.33 MhZ PowerBook this machine feels MUY RAPIDO. I do wonder about MacWorld though and if something major happens where my same money could buy me 10% or more speed or where I can get the same horsepower for $500 or more I may call Apple and try and do a switch. But I am not a maniac about speed. Right now I am grateful and though it isn't huge the extra ram make me smile a bit!

Podolsky · Jan 5, 2006, 09:00 PM

Duh......Can't believe i missed this -- I just noticed Apple sent my refurbed dual 2.7 with a 400GB hard drive. I was supposed to come with a 250GB.......I am getting happier by the minute.....

G5man · Jan 6, 2006, 02:14 AM

Dang, got all the free upgrades? What display are you running on the PowerMac?

Podolsky · Jan 6, 2006, 10:06 AM

I bought the 23 inch new though they are available refurbed too. I thought the 30 inch was too big for my use and the 23 was , well, $2,000 less! I am very pleased with the monitor and expect it to serve well for quite some time. I bought an airport card too but have not installed it and probably won't as the direct Ethernet connection is faster and I don't need mobility on this computer. I do want Bluetooth but haven't done anything about that yet. I like to synch my phone and send documents back and forth. Any suggestions on Bluetooth solutions for this gen of G5? I know the current models have a combined airport/bluetooth card but that isn't back-compatible. Yes - I am injoying all the joy of a new, much faster computer with no problems whatsoever. I let the extended hard test crunch for over an hour last night and that passed with flying colors.

Chito · Jan 6, 2006, 11:45 AM

The extra ram and bigger drive are nice suprises. I bought mine new from LA Computer Co. and it was supposed to come with a Radeon 9600 and when it arrived it had a 9800. I remember the feeling. Glad you're happy.

MRTrauffer · Jan 6, 2006, 01:29 PM

I just bought a dual 2.7 referb last week...it should arrive by Monday. Can hardly wait!!

Podolsky · Jan 6, 2006, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by MRTrauffer

I just bought a dual 2.7 referb last week...it should arrive by Monday. Can hardly wait!!

I hope you have the same good luck as did. This computer just keeps getting better. You may find that it comes tricked-out like mine did. I had not heard that these refurbs can come with better than the basic equipment. But it stands to reason that the 2.7, having been a top-o-the-line machine for -- well, about 1 month, would have a better chance of having better hard drives and more ram.

I will be interested to hear about your experience.

paulc · Jan 8, 2006, 03:46 PM

Ha, I also saw the 2149 for the dual 2.7 and jumped on it (arrives next week). For the exact same reasons that several said... my current dual 1 is 4 years on... I tend to do 4 year cycles, 4 years (or less) from now a very interesting MacIntel tower may come out, AND by that time, all major software should be ported. Even if they manage to get a MacIntel tower out by years end, I can guarantee you it's going to be next mid year for Photoshop to go over.

And trust me, a year or so for the Intel Photoshop wouldn't be all that bad either.

Podolsky · Jan 8, 2006, 09:16 PM

Well, we both are applying the same logic. I plan to keep this dual 2.7 for about 3 years. I will upgrade the video and add ram or a hard drive in about 18 months. I feel great about this purchase. Proven platform late in the life-cycle. I also sprung for the AppleCare for the computer and the 23 inch monitor for $199. So, I feel very covered. I suggest you do the same for piece of mind. Good luck. I will be curious to know if you get extra ram and a larger disk.

paulc · Jan 8, 2006, 09:29 PM

Oh I already got an additional 2G of RAM. As soon as it arrives and I see exactly what kind of HD is included, I'll get the same one again. Then I'll make that a 500G stripped array.

Right now my plan is to add a 2 drive enclosure (removable bays) and hook up a SATA card to access this item. 2 more 250G drives, stripped in there and maybe use it as a mirror for my internal storage.

Plus I have to make migration strategies! I'm debating migration asst. vs. starting from scratch...

As for A/C, I have until the original one runs out I think... in any case, you probably order education because the refurb is the same price, but I think the A/C is cheaper. Or I may move sooner... the big thing is that it used to do home service for Power Macs; I'll have to see if that's true. I'm using my current 1280 LCD although I'm eyeing that 24" Dell. Plus contemplating a Radeon 9800 for another 260 bucks!

Podolsky · Jan 8, 2006, 09:46 PM

When I get to thinking about hard drive arrays - I know who I will contact. I have quite a few other Macs on my network and 2 nice external fire wire drives. So, I am set right now. Better video will be firs on my list than ram than another drive.

I pondered reinstalling Tiger and all that but just left it alone and use the migration assistant. I like that much better than CCC or the SuperDuper. I use Cocktail Disk Utility and Disk warrior all before and after any migration and I have what appears to be a very stable set up. I have been running activity monitor for the 5 days I have had the system to just look for any problems. I did have some issues with Classic as I still need that for some of my work. But those were fixed no problem. All tolled, the dual 2.7 is very sweet and very quite too. If I tax the CPUs I can get the fans to go into overdrive but it winds right down and doesn't bother me at all. The drives make drivey kinds of noises but very faint and not a problem.

timmerk · Jan 10, 2006, 10:43 PM

Are you sorry yet? ;-)

Lateralus · Jan 10, 2006, 11:24 PM

Don't be a retard.

Todd Madson · Jan 11, 2006, 12:30 AM

Even though the new iMac has a dual core CPU it does not have the expandability
that the PowerMac has.

Also, even if the DC Intel iMacs are DC machines, it still can't run any classic apps
and any PowerPC code will be emulated so if it hasn't been compiled as a universal
binary it still will run slower. The majority of apps, for now, are PPC compiled.

I'm still happy I've got a PowerMac - these machines promise to be capable and
expandable and upgradable despite the fact that the Intels will come.

But in 3-4 years it will make a great backup machine for various purposes.

Podolsky · Jan 11, 2006, 08:46 AM

Yes, actually, I am a bit sorry and bit confused about what is the right path to take right now. To cover my ambivalence, I called Apple yesterday and RMAs for all the equipment. I am going to take the weekend or into next week to figure out what I am going to do..........I paid close to $4K for the monitor and the PM and I could get a full tricked out dual core I mac for about half that. I know the PM would be faster, run Classic and all but the iMac would be on a forward trajectory rather than a retrograde one. Right now my plan is to return my recent purchase, sit on the dough and wait for rev B of the iMac which my gut tells me will include a 23" one too given the fact that flat panel prices are dropping like stones. By that time, which I figure will be spring or summer-back-to-school offerings there will be a lot more native code in X and in various apps I use. I welcome feedback and thoughts from all the fine folks here.

MRTrauffer · Jan 11, 2006, 05:25 PM

Well, my refurb dual 2.7 finally arrived today. A beautiful machine i must say. Everything came just as documented, with the exception of the ram. It had 1 gb instead of 512. Overall, i'm really impressed. And no, i don't regret waiting for an intel.

Podolsky · Jan 11, 2006, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by MRTrauffer

Well, my refurb dual 2.7 finally arrived today. A beautiful machine i must say. Everything came just as documented, with the exception of the ram. It had 1 gb instead of 512. Overall, i'm really impressed. And no, i don't regret waiting for an intel.

MRT - Sounds like you will enjoy the machine and I wish you good luck with it. While I haven't decided 100% I am most likely going to return mine and wait for a spring or summer Macintel of some kind. I WAS surprised at how fast Apple is apparently making this migration. Heck, I thought that I had at least a year before anything attractive appeared or the migration of X and apps was well underway. Clearly, they are telescoping the process considerably. Hence, it looks like there will something really worth buying in 6 months not 12 or 18 as I had thought.

Al G · Jan 14, 2006, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by Podolsky

Thanks - So far I am SO PLEASED WITH THIS MACHINE. It has been rock solid with ...

Now you want to send it back because Apple came out with an Intel iMac?

The PowerMac is still faster and you have a 23" monitor. I don't understand.

The two are not really in the same market.

Plus, much of the non-Apple software will take a while to be converted to Universal Binary (Adobe apps for example) so that means the PowerMac is really a lot faster for most things.

If you wanted to sell the PM after an Intel version comes out, I'd expect you could still get a decent price for your DP 2.7. In the meantime, you'll actually be using a fast machine, not waiting around for Apple to announce the next model, and with no need to rush into the first Intel Mac.

ericssonboi · Jan 14, 2006, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Al G

Now you want to send it back because Apple came out with an Intel iMac?

The PowerMac is still faster and you have a 23" monitor. I don't understand.

The two are not really in the same market.

Plus, much of the non-Apple software will take a while to be converted to Universal Binary (Adobe apps for example) so that means the PowerMac is really a lot faster for most things.

If you wanted to sell the PM after an Intel version comes out, I'd expect you could still get a decent price for your DP 2.7. In the meantime, you'll actually be using a fast machine, not waiting around for Apple to announce the next model, and with no need to rush into the first Intel Mac.

So true..
I purchased a 15" PB in March 2005 and was thinking about upgrading to the MBP.
Although i don't use a lot of Pro apps... i don't want to be stuck with a computer that won't perform at optimization.

Having a PM and 23" Monitor may be double the cost of the iMac, but at least you know it'll be running apps at the speed they should be and not have your performance lost "at this time."

And like the previos person mentioned... no need to be running into 1st Gen problems..

mduell · Jan 15, 2006, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Al G

Plus, much of the non-Apple software will take a while to be converted to Universal Binary (Adobe apps for example) so that means the PowerMac is really a lot faster for most things.

Actually, the Core Duo iMac is about as fast as a dual G5 in Photoshop, despite running in emulation through Rosetta.

Podolsky · Jan 15, 2006, 01:12 AM

Some good points are made here but I am still going to return the dual 2.7. Apple is going to come out with more new Macs in the next 6-9 months it is going to make our heads spin. With the ram and the apple care I have almost $3K sunk into the dual 2.7. I am going to get that back and sit and wait and see what comes out. I am mostly interested in what getting a dual processor and less interested in expandabilty. So, I probably won't even go for a Power Mac. For now, I will keep the 23" monitor and use it, as I am now, with my 17" PowerBook and either get the next rev of the iMac, a new Power Mac or some upcoming version of the MacBook.....I am happy. Also, I wasn't blown away by the dual 2.7. While I think it is a great machine....I have already moved on and will probably save a lot of money and get a lot more computer this spring or summer.

mduell · Jan 15, 2006, 01:18 AM

Originally Posted by Podolsky

Some good points are made here but I am still going to return the dual 2.7. Apple is going to come out with more new Macs in the next 6-9 months it is going to make our heads spin. With the ram and the apple care I have almost $3K sunk into the dual 2.7.

Please note that Apple does not permit the return of or offer refunds for the following products:
1. Product that is custom configured to your specifications

I'm shocked at the performance of the Intel Macs. Clock-for-clock competitive with the G5 while running Photoshop through emulation.

Podolsky · Jan 15, 2006, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

Please note that Apple does not permit the return of or offer refunds for the following products:
1. Product that is custom configured to your specifications

I'm shocked at the performance of the Intel Macs. Clock-for-clock competitive with the G5 while running Photoshop through emulation.

Refurbed equipment is always sold as-is and does not allow for BTO. However, it just so happened that Apple shipped me a BTO refurbed. I called after 7 days and was given an RMA instantly. I am only out the return shipping cost.

When you say shocked - I presume you meand shocked in a good way. Rosetta apparently is very well written and has a lot less overhead than everyone expected. Inspite of the naysayers in the popular press Apple will not just weather this major, it's third major, architecture migration style, consumers will be the beneficiaries. What is shocking is how fast they are apparently going to execute the migration. Apple is saying that by the end of 2006 ALL THEIR COMPUTERS WILL BE INTEL-BASED. That means something between 8 and 15 new computers will be realesed by Apple this year. That is why I am returning the dual G5 which is based on a late 2003/2004 architeture.