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Are you a flexitarian? Can vegans eat honey? ...
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cmeisenzahl
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Jul 31, 2008, 08:45 AM
 
Why vegans can't decide whether they're allowed to eat honey. - By Daniel Engber - Slate Magazine
"There's never been a better time to be a half-assed vegetarian. Five years ago, the American Dialect Society honored the word flexitarian for its utility in describing a growing demographic—the "vegetarian who occasionally eats meat.""
http://www.slate.com/id/2196205/
     
Uncle Doof
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Jul 31, 2008, 08:55 AM
 
Flexitarian = sub-human scum with no personal standards, merrily floating along on the inanity of popular cultural fashion.



And no, vegans can't eat honey.
If you don't want to be eaten, stop acting like food
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Jul 31, 2008, 08:57 AM
 
Are vegans allowed to eat anything? Why are they saying eating products that come from animals is bad but then go on to kill plants to eat them?
     
osiris
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Jul 31, 2008, 09:11 AM
 
If you say you're a vegetarian and eat meat, that makes you a jerk.
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Uncle Doof
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Jul 31, 2008, 09:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
If you say you're a vegetarian and eat meat, that makes you a jerk suitable candidate for execution.
The scene: A restaurant

"I can't eat that, it's got chicken stock in it! This is marked as a vegetarian dish."

"But we've had seven vegetarians in here this week and each of them said it was OK for you vegetarians to eat that."

"They're not vegetarians - they're sub-human scum with no personal standards, who merrily float along on the inanity of popular cultural fashion. Vegetarians do not eat meat, including chicken stock."

"Well we haven't got anything else sir."

"Well thanks for ruining my date."
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osiris
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Jul 31, 2008, 09:23 AM
 
Nice, Uncle Doof.
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Zeeb
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Jul 31, 2008, 09:56 AM
 
A new vegan cafe opened up around the corner from me. I stopped in there once and the place looks more like a lab or pharmacy than a place I would eat. Lot's of dark bottles filled with supplements(why they are needed is beyond me--since vegans & vegetarians swear all their nutrients come from plants), sheer white countertops, and "food" engineered to appear as if it were made with animal products. I had a cookie though and it wasn't bad except for a slightly off texture and chalky aftertaste.
     
Chuckit
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Jul 31, 2008, 10:15 AM
 
I'm with Doofy on "flexitarianism." Besides the whole personal standards thing, all these varieties of meat-eating "vegetarianism" confuse people and lead them to weird ideas like that chicken and fish are types of vegetable.

As a side note, I don't really understand why vegans can't eat honey outside of some ideological purity.
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Eug
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Jul 31, 2008, 10:24 AM
 
Around here - "vegan restaurant" = Food tastes like absolute crap. (At least for the few I've been to.)

The sad part is that it doesn't have to. It's as if the restaurants go out of their way to make their food taste like crap by using weird ingredients nobody likes anyway. Like seriously, do you really need to make pancakes using esoteric whole grains with the texture of sand? What's wrong with wheat flour?
     
zombie punk
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Jul 31, 2008, 12:04 PM
 
We need a new word for someone who is not religious about it, but is trying to eat less meat. Wow.
     
sek929
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Jul 31, 2008, 12:06 PM
 
If humans were meant to be Vegan we'd have a mouth full of molars.

I prefer to keep my canines busy.
     
ghporter
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:21 PM
 
I'm sometimes a "meat minimalist." I have reduced the amount of red meat I eat quite drastically, and I don't eat much poultry either. But if I'm at a restaurant that's known for steaks (Texas Land and Cattle Co., for example-YUM!), then I usually have a very nice steak. I wind up eating less animal fat, and stick to really good cuts of really good meats. I'm picky, not obsessive. My rule is that I eat "good foods that are well prepared."

Flip side: my god daughter. She's a vegetarian. She does not eat "anything with a face." That's her rule, not my interpretation of it. So she eats honey, lots of very interesting vegetables and fruits, and has some wonderful recipes for making her diet quite tasty.

Now to me, a "flexitarian" is a hypocrite or a poser. Either they're not really committed to the philosophical and health basis behind vegetarianism, or they're trying to impress someone, but not trying very hard. To me, vegetarianism is a binary situation, like pregnancy. You either are or you aren't. Vegan is just being VERY vegetarian, with tighter rules. Sort of like a kosher vegetarian?

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zombie punk
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:25 PM
 
For one thing, pregnancy is not a binary situation, secondly, why do you think that the amount of meat you eat is a binary thing? A lot of people are cutting down on the amount of meat they eat, some of them cut it down to the extent that they think of themselves as vegetarian. I don't see why you think this is a big deal - perhaps you think that some 'vegetarians' are not 'vegetarian enough' for the label - maybe you're right. So what?
     
Luca Rescigno
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:30 PM
 
I have much more respect for someone who cuts back on meat because it's a healthy decision than for someone who swears off eating all meat because "boo hoo think of the poor fuzzy widdle animals!"

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
ghporter
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
For one thing, pregnancy is not a binary situation, secondly, why do you think that the amount of meat you eat is a binary thing? A lot of people are cutting down on the amount of meat they eat, some of them cut it down to the extent that they think of themselves as vegetarian. I don't see why you think this is a big deal - perhaps you think that some 'vegetarians' are not 'vegetarian enough' for the label - maybe you're right. So what?
Ummmm. Pregnancy certainly is a binary situation. One either IS pregnant or IS NOT. There is no in between. There are stages of pregnancy, but the woman is pregnant the whole time. Absolutely.

I'm not saying that the amount of meat someone should eat should be binary, but that the LABEL of "vegetarian" implies a choice of either eating meat or NOT eating meat. "Almost vegetarian" could describe someone who eats meat very rarely, but not the label "vegetarian" without some modifying word to point out that meat is an option. Vegetarianism is a choice, not something someone is born with like skin color. Honesty, with oneself and with others, demands that we use such labels accurately, don't you think?

The "so what" part comes in when someone describes himself to me as a vegetarian, and then I see that he indeed eats meat. Does that mean that he's not honest with me on other matters? It's a matter of character to me when someone says "I'm X" and then he shows me that he was not accurate in describing himself.

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Chuckit
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
We need a new word for someone who is not religious about it, but is trying to eat less meat. Wow.
I believe that's called a "healthy eater."
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Uncle Doof
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
For one thing, pregnancy is not a binary situation, secondly, why do you think that the amount of meat you eat is a binary thing? A lot of people are cutting down on the amount of meat they eat, some of them cut it down to the extent that they think of themselves as vegetarian. I don't see why you think this is a big deal - perhaps you think that some 'vegetarians' are not 'vegetarian enough' for the label - maybe you're right. So what?
"So what?"?

Well, the problem is as described above in the restaurant scene. All the people who think they're vegetarian are screwing it up for those of us who actually are.

If you've eaten meat, poultry, fish or any derivative thereof in the last three months, you're not a vegetarian. It's that simple.

And if one actually eats meat occasionally (i.e. the so-called "flexitarian") and one has applied a label to oneself ("nearly vegetarian" or "flexitarian") then quite simply one is just a wanker who's applying the label to impress people - either to get her knickers off or to fit in with some peer group. Either way, if ones does this one is a tosser.
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Uncle Doof
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
I believe that's called a "health eater fat person."
Fixinatedorness.
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besson3c
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:50 PM
 
Why shouldn't we be concerned about the animals? I eat meat, but I would very much like to know that the animals were treated humanely up to the time of their slaughter. The problem is that there are no guarantees, which I think is what drives many people to eat less meat or become vegetarian.
     
besson3c
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:51 PM
 
I would like to know ways to get people's knickers off. I'm married, so I wouldn't do anything once they are off, but I would still like to get them off. I don't much care for knickers.
     
olePigeon
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:55 PM
 
I'm flexitating between cheeseburgers and bratwurst with caramelized onions.

By the way, my Communications teacher in college was out for several months. She'd been a vegetarian for 30 years and she still had a cholesterol related heart attack. She's no longer a vegetarian, but she does watch her cholesterol very closely.
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Uncle Doof
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Jul 31, 2008, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
By the way, my Communications teacher in college was out for several months. She'd been a vegetarian for 30 years and she still had a cholesterol related heart attack. She's no longer a vegetarian, but she does watch her cholesterol very closely.
You sure she was a vegetarian? Is she sure she was a vegetarian? I mean, you guys even soak your McDonalds french fries in some kind of beef giblets... ...and even stuff like your apples aren't actually vegetarian (some kind of beef derivative sprayed onto them to make them look nice on the shelves). It's real hard to be a proper veggie in the US.
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Chuckit
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Jul 31, 2008, 02:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Doof View Post
You sure she was a vegetarian? Is she sure she was a vegetarian? I mean, you guys even soak your McDonalds french fries in some kind of beef giblets... ...and even stuff like your apples aren't actually vegetarian (some kind of beef derivative sprayed onto them to make them look nice on the shelves). It's real hard to be a proper veggie in the US.
Even if you are a lacto-ovo vegetarian, which most are, you're still leaving some pretty big sources of saturated fat and cholesterol in your diet. And a lot of lacto-ovos go really heavy on both the lacto and the ovo.
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osiris
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Jul 31, 2008, 02:11 PM
 
She was probably eating whole cakes and pies.
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zombie punk
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Jul 31, 2008, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Doof View Post
"So what?"?

Well, the problem is as described above in the restaurant scene. All the people who think they're vegetarian are screwing it up for those of us who actually are.

If you've eaten meat, poultry, fish or any derivative thereof in the last three months, you're not a vegetarian. It's that simple.

And if one actually eats meat occasionally (i.e. the so-called "flexitarian") and one has applied a label to oneself ("nearly vegetarian" or "flexitarian") then quite simply one is just a wanker who's applying the label to impress people - either to get her knickers off or to fit in with some peer group. Either way, if ones does this one is a tosser.
Well, I think you need to set up some kind of certification program so that you can guarantee that people are only using the word in the way you define it.
     
besson3c
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Jul 31, 2008, 02:24 PM
 
Yeah, what happens if that person has only been a vegetarian for 2 months and 30 days and there are 31 days in the month, and another other guy is 2 months and 28 days and that month is February?

I'm clever.
     
Chuckit
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Jul 31, 2008, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
Well, I think you need to set up some kind of certification program so that you can guarantee that people are only using the word in the way you define it.
That doesn't even work for Realtor.
Chuck
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Uncle Doof
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Jul 31, 2008, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by zombie punk View Post
Well, I think you need to set up some kind of certification program so that you can guarantee that people are only using the word in the way you define it.
OK, sounds reasonable. $50 per card.
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lpkmckenna
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Jul 31, 2008, 02:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
As a side note, I don't really understand why vegans can't eat honey outside of some ideological purity.
Didn't you see Bee Movie! It's exploitation!
     
besson3c
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Jul 31, 2008, 03:00 PM
 
Doofy, I honestly wasn't trying to goad you, but rereading what I wrote I can see why you would think that. I apologize. Whether you want to converse with me is up to you, but it was not clear to me that you do not wish to talk to me since we just had a lively conversation about your mail system you want to hire somebody to design. Knowing that you do not wish to talk with me, I'll respect that and ignore you. I don't have a burning desire to talk with you anyway after that spectacle.
     
Chuckit
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Jul 31, 2008, 03:00 PM
 
I just deleted several posts of petty bickering and trolling. Cut it out.
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Eug
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Jul 31, 2008, 03:07 PM
 
I'm an omnivore myself.

     
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Jul 31, 2008, 03:52 PM
 
Sweet! That was my first car. Dodge Omni (is that what that is up there?). Solid.
     
Luca Rescigno
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Jul 31, 2008, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I'm an omnivore myself.

You eat Dodge Omnis?

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Eug
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Jul 31, 2008, 04:33 PM
 
Yes. I thought that was obvious from the post.

They are a great source of iron, and do not involve eating any meat whatsoever.
     
Helmling
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Jul 31, 2008, 05:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
Are vegans allowed to eat anything? Why are they saying eating products that come from animals is bad but then go on to kill plants to eat them?
I don't eat anything with a nervous system.
     
Andy8
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Jul 31, 2008, 07:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
Even if you are a lacto-ovo vegetarian, which most are, you're still leaving some pretty big sources of saturated fat and cholesterol in your diet. And a lot of lacto-ovos go really heavy on both the lacto and the ovo.
I have been a lacto-ovo vegetarian for 30 years, my diet is heavy on yoghurt and cheese, but eggs not as much, maybe 5-10 per month.
     
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Aug 1, 2008, 10:15 PM
 
People who don't eat animals for "moral" reasons seem to be perfectly fine slaughtering rabbits and mice during mechanized harvesting of vegetables and grains. Puzzling.
     
Cipher13
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Aug 2, 2008, 12:00 AM
 
It's definitely a binary thing. You either are or you aren't - you can't be vegetarian if you occasionally eat meat. You can't be vegan if you occasionally drink milk. If you're a vegan that drinks milk, you're a regular old vegetarian.

My girlfriend is a vegetarian, I suppose, simply because she doesn't like the texture of meat. I'm absolutely not a vegetarian, though my diet is almost entirely vegetarian because we cook things we both eat.

I don't go around calling myself a vegetarian though, because I love a barely-cooked tender-aged steak.

Why do people insist on classifying themselves? **** off. I am what I am.
     
Cipher13
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Aug 2, 2008, 12:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
People who don't eat animals for "moral" reasons seem to be perfectly fine slaughtering rabbits and mice during mechanized harvesting of vegetables and grains. Puzzling.
Or driving around on tyres made from animal entrails.
     
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Aug 2, 2008, 12:59 AM
 
As I understand from studies (sorry no links) that I watched on 60 Minutes or some-such or read about somewhere here and there is that plants cry and scream when they are killed. You can't hear them but they were wired to scientific stuffs that registered and recorded it.
     
Atomic Rooster
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Aug 2, 2008, 01:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cipher13 View Post
Or driving around on tyres made from animal entrails.
WTF!
     
Cipher13
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Aug 2, 2008, 01:00 AM
 
Yeah, I've heard people try to tell me that one too. Of course plants react to external stimuli. They are machines, after all, just like animals (humans included).
     
Shaddim
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Aug 2, 2008, 01:33 AM
 
I no longer eat "bulk" beef or pork (the crap you see wrapped in plastic at Kroger), and I purchase chicken and eggs from local small farms. The difference in taste is shocking.
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macintologist
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Aug 2, 2008, 02:04 AM
 
I mostly eat vegetarian stuff like boca burgers and pasta but when I go out to a restaurant I'll order a steak/burger no problem.
     
Chuckit
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Aug 2, 2008, 04:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
People who don't eat animals for "moral" reasons seem to be perfectly fine slaughtering rabbits and mice during mechanized harvesting of vegetables and grains. Puzzling.
People act like they're unable to understand the difference between mass torture and unfortunate happenstance. Puzzling.

It may be that one day something I do will inadvertently lead to somebody's death (say, maybe I'll spill some water and it'll become a patch of ice that somebody slips on), but I don't think that's very good justification for me to start breaking into people's houses and dismembering them.
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CrimsonRequiem
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Aug 2, 2008, 05:24 AM
 
Humm...honey is basically regurgitated nectar so it's nectar + bee spit. That's up to you if you want to eat that.

Flexitarian sounds like an Easter Catholic to me or Jews that eat pork. >_>"

Not say that there is anything wrong with that but it definitely deviates from the original practices.
     
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Aug 2, 2008, 06:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
I no longer eat "bulk" beef or pork (the crap you see wrapped in plastic at Kroger), and I purchase chicken and eggs from local small farms. The difference in taste is shocking.
Exactly.
     
Mastrap
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Aug 2, 2008, 06:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
People act like they're unable to understand the difference between mass torture and unfortunate happenstance. Puzzling.

It may be that one day something I do will inadvertently lead to somebody's death (say, maybe I'll spill some water and it'll become a patch of ice that somebody slips on), but I don't think that's very good justification for me to start breaking into people's houses and dismembering them.
Apples and oranges. Mechanized agriculture leads to the death of animals, whichever way you look at it. It comes with the territory. I agree that the original argument was somewhat facetious, but if you really care about animal life then you would only be able to eat food grown small scale and tended by hand. If you wanted to take this to the logical conclusion you would not even be able to pick off and kill pests of course.
     
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Aug 2, 2008, 08:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Mastrap View Post
Apples and oranges. Mechanized agriculture leads to the death of animals, whichever way you look at it. It comes with the territory. I agree that the original argument was somewhat facetious, but if you really care about animal life then you would only be able to eat food grown small scale and tended by hand. If you wanted to take this to the logical conclusion you would not even be able to pick off and kill pests of course.
Building a house in a new development kills animals, too. Did you do all the research needed to make sure that no animals were harmed in the building of your dwelling? Are you certain that no animals were harmed in bringing your vegetables (I assume they're hand-grown by monks or something) to market?

Human existence is often at a cost to other forms of life on this planet. I think that the best we can do is to work hard at not intentionally harming other living things, and minimizing those possibilities of accidentally harming them. But how are you going to feed the world using manual hoes and rakes? Can you feed YOURSELF with your own, very gentle garden?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
 
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