[brokenjago]

Discuss.

[Macola]

Well, I guess they were serious about removing "computer" from their name. Too bad, but I hope they refresh the hardware at least in the meanwhile. Tiger is fine for now, but I was really looking forward to Time Machine.

I have no plans for an iPhone but hope it does really well, especially after this. Otherwise, the "Apple is dying/dead" stories will return with a vengeance.

[Gee4orce]

uh-oh.

well, gives me a perfect opportunity to buy into Apple (looking for an upside to this news)

[stevesnj]

I would rather Apple get the OS right than spend time doing updates and patches. October isn't that longer of a wait and im happy with Tiger till then. Another classy move from Apple.

[pendragon]

Is work is being done on 10.4.10? Are there developer releases?

[jmichael]

I see far less impact for the general user population on a delay of Leopard until October than I do on a delay of one of the most anticipated products Apple has developed to date. With some extra time for evaluation by develolpers, hopefully by the time Leopard is released, it will start out with more initial stability than other earlier OSX versions, and will be fully compatible with most major software. Look at Vista in that regard. It's not. I'm very happy with Tiger right now, and while I'm excited about Leopard, no big deal for me to wait a few more months to get it.

[Gee4orce]

Very true - I don't believe that this is very harmful for Apple in the long run, so long as it' doesn't slip any further. They need to capitalise on the anti-Vista sentiment at the moment.

[brokenjago]

Paul Thurrot is gonna have a field day with this methinks.

That being said, how does this bode for Leopard-only apps? Delicious Library 2, for instance?

[ghporter]

Post-and-run is a no-no. What are YOUR feelings and opinions on this?

I find this slightly disappointing, but that's all. I'm looking forward to Leopard, but not enough to get really upset about a delay in its release.

[Salty]

Sigh. I imagine the iPhone is also to blame for the set back of iLife 07? You know I imagine they may skip iLife 07 and simply come out with iLife 08 in time for the Christmas shopping season (might actually be a smart move mind you) or something like that. I'm a little frustrated to see that we won't see Leopard sooner than later, but at the same time I'd rather have them do it right then do it wrong and then have my data at risk. That said this better mean that we get to see some of those unreleased features now that Vista is out! So long as we see something great at the WWDC in regards to Leopard I'm sure we'll all be able to forgive Apple.

[brokenjago]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Post-and-run is a no-no. What are YOUR feelings and opinions on this?

Ha-ha! Made it before you said it!

Although honestly, this sorta jives with a thread I was planning to start soon. The topic revolved around whether Apple was going to take the time to work out as many bugs as feasible instead of rushing to market, like they did with Tiger. I'm glad they seem to have chosen the former. All eyes are on Apple with the release of this OS, and it needs to be as flawless as possible for them to make big gains against Microsoft.

Another possibility, although one I don't think is the case, is that the features that haven't been previewed in Leopard are just so huge that there's no way they could be completed satisfactorily in the previous timeframe and kept under wraps this long at the same time. The iPhone just proved a convenient Scapegoat.

[JKT]

I think this is going to have a quite serious negative effect on Mac sales for the next 6 months - I for one am waiting for Leopard to make my purchase and I know that I am not alone.

[LittleBastad]

Originally Posted by JKT 

I think this is going to have a quite serious negative effect on Mac sales for the next 6 months - I for one am waiting for Leopard to make my purchase and I know that I am not alone.

But I'm quite the opposite. I was feeling kinda of crappy about the fact that I was going to have to buy a new machine only a couple months ahead of Leopard's release (my PC crapped out on me this past weekend) and I was cursing my PC for not lasting a bit longer, but now I feel even better about buying my Mac now rather than waiting. And by the time October comes around, it'll be my birthday (my 30th), and now I know what I'll be asking for.

So, I mean, I think you're right that some people will be holding off until October. But I think some people who were holding off are going to say "Screw it," and buy now instead.

[dpicardi]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Post-and-run is a no-no. What are YOUR feelings and opinions on this?

I find this slightly disappointing, but that's all. I'm looking forward to Leopard, but not enough to get really upset about a delay in its release.

I'm truly surprised to see how many are chiming in that this is not a big deal. I think it is quite a big deal.

OSX will not be finished by the time WWDC begins. That's significant for a lot of reasons. The new 8 cores are next to useless (little to no improvement over the 4 core) without significant OS and Hardware revisions. Are we likely to see those before October...hmmm i tend to doubt it. Look how little Apple made of the 8-core machine intro'd recently.

Tied to the OS are all the iLife apps which will be nearly 2 years old by the time they are released. (And several pro apps)

Frankly this will definately hurt the stock price as new mac sales will likely be flat as a result of little to no upgrading by Apple between now and October.

This is a pretty big deal and as another poster mentioned, Apple is missing an opportunity to capitalize on Vista's slow coming out party.

Frankly I don't think we are getting the whole truth regarding Apple having to pilfer OSX resources to finish iPhone. If that is the case I would not be surprised it there were contractual things with regard to Cingular that held Apple's feet to the fire saying "hit it in June or else."

Definate bummer...and Apple knows it otherwise they would not made the release AFTER trading closed today...

[mduell]

I wonder what exactly went wrong in the last two weeks; pulling people off for the iPhone sounds like it has been happening for a while. On March 25 Apple said Leopard was still scheduled to ship in this spring as they previously announced.

But the rumor sites have been predicting this for a while... just this morning Appleinsider posted that the bug list is still quite long and severe (QuickTime, graphics corruption, printing bugs, glitches iChat/PhotoBooth, and ~20 more in iCal, iTunes, Safari, Mail, and FileVault [which is kinda scary; user data corruption is bad]) and fixes are only trickling out with only a handful of notable changes in the latest build.

It also appears that there is a pre-Leopard sales slump... a slump for a few weeks or even a month isn't that bad, but stretching over multiple quarters could get ugly.

[dpicardi]

yup...down.

After Hours: 89.76 -2.43 (-2.64%)

[brokenjago]

Another good question: what happens to iLife? I read an AppleInsider article that stated that Apple is considering dropping the yearly revision naming scheme in favor of an OS name scheme, IE "iLife Leopard Edition" or something of that sort. It would make sense.

[Naaaaak]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

That being said, how does this bode for Leopard-only apps? Delicious Library 2, for instance?

That's probably my biggest concern at this point. A delay in 10.5 delays a lot of other things.

[jamiemcf]

I'm really annoyed that Apple has let the computer part of them slide, they are what they are today because of computers. They could never have invented the iPod without the money from selling Macs. I'm annoyed. And people who are saying it's not that long a wait. It's 6 months, that's long in an OS life cycle, one quarter of Tiger's I think?

[serphium]

It's disappointing, but I won't too upset as long as they give the hardware a refresh around WWDC. Who knows though.

[Don Pickett]

I can't wait for 10.4.10!

That aside, this is a medium-sized deal, but not for some of the reasons I'm seeing. I don't think the delay of the iApps is a big deal, as they're more of a value-added product than one of Apple's headliners. I find iPhoto and the like useful, but I don't obsess about them. Additionally, I don't think the delay of Leopard until September will hurt Apple much in in terms of perception and/or advertising, as, unlike MS and VIsta, Apple has not sold 10.5 as the Greatest Thing Ever, and Apple's fortunes are not tied to Leopard as MS's are to Vista. OS X has been seriously updated four times since XP shipped, so we're not all sitting here working on an OS from 2001.

The more interesting thing about this, to me, is that Apple sees the iPhone as an important enough project to push 10.5 back a few months. Looking at Apple's recent product announcement, it looks to me as if they are moving steadily away from the kind of monolithic product line of MS or Dell & Co. and moving more towards a seriously vertically- and horzontally-integrated solutions company, which bodes well for their future. This means that Apple will sell people not just a computer, or a phone, but an intergrated suite of hardware and software for their "digital life". This, to me, is a huge deal because, as MS's and Dell's continuing money problems* show, being tied to one product or revenue stream in a time of rapid technological advance can be a recipe for slow death.

So, no, the computer part of Apple isn't going anywhere. However, I think we will see more and more integration. You will be able to take your iPhone, put it next to your iMac, and have it seamslessly update all contact into, mail, appointments, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see something in the future in which your iPod/iPhone will automatically check your iTunes library and grab the latest episodes of whatever you want, or push them to your AppleTV, etc. You get the idea: Apple is perhaps becoming a very cool hybrid of computer and personal electronics company, kind of what Sony wants to be. And the potential in something like the iPhone is very exciting, as it could be a way of basically having a truly portable and seamless experience. Any work you do on your iPhone away from home or office could be automatically changed at your main machine, such that your Desktop is now truly global and instantaneous.

*I know what MS and Dell are still profitable companies. I know that MS has more money than God. But check their stock performance for the last five years. It's basically flat. Read their annual report or their 10-Ks. You will see that MS has only two really profitable divisions, Office and OS. Almost everything else, X-Box included, is an enormous money hole. Now, when you have billions upon billions, you can have these enormous money holes. But they don't bode well for long-term company health, and it looks to me like the market(s) think the same thing. Dell, while still making money, is struggling in a market which is more and more competitive. The problem for both companies is that they're dependent on relatively a relatively narrow focus for their revenue and health, and I don't see much room for expansion in either one. MS, in particular, has attempted to break into several markets over the past decade, without much success. I expect the Zune to be another flop.

[Catfish_Man]

I'm rather thankful they'll have time to fix some of the glaring problems in the current seeds.

[Mediaman_12]

The worrying thing is that iPhone dev can't/shouldn't stop once thing ships out of the door. The phone handset market is one of the fastest moving sectors around, today's 'must have' that has everyone paying ridiculous contracts to get hold of, often ends up just in one of the packages the next month, and in 6 months is the one that everyone seems to have got free in some contract 'deal' (see the Moto' Razor or the top end Sony Sony Ericsson's for examples) .
So once the iPhone ships, they need to start work on the next version with a fairly short target ship date (less than 12 months), to stop the iPhone brand looking 'stale' with Apple as a 'one hit wonder' in the the sector.
The shift of focus away from the OS, and possibly the Mac Hardware (meaningful updates here are also a bit 'thin' of late) what should be the core of the company's products is a tad worrying for the long term.
Oh and Leopard now needs to be really blindingly good, as it's will be well over 6 months later than the competition's release.

[Aron Peterson]

I was disappointed, and then I thought...by then a new MacBook Pro model might tempt me and I'll get Leopard for free.

[Zeeb]

I'm concerned about the message this delay sends about Apple's priorities. It gives the impression that they aren't so excited about computers anymore and if they aren't excited the customers aren't going to be. The great big update to the displays--was a price drop. The 8 core Mac Pro was fairly significant, but a lot of other hardware is starting to get long in the tooth. Now this delay in Leopard--weren't delays the reason Vista was so heavily criticized? Not only may people put off purchasing a new mac, they may decide to purchase a PC with a newer OS from a computer company that still focuses on their computers. Apple has been better at updating their hardware but its still lagging behind what others are offering.

[brokenjago]

I agree that it doesn't send the best message, but I think that they're still on top of the computer game. Maybe they're a bit late, but they've still got a plan. The thing with the iPhone is is that it has to be perfect. This thing was hyped for two years before it's eventual announcement, and Apple has a ton riding on it.

[JKT]

Originally Posted by Mediaman_12 

The worrying thing is that iPhone dev can't/shouldn't stop once thing ships out of the door.

I think the thing to realise with the iPhone is that Apple can upgrade you to a new model after 12 to 18 months through a simple OS and software upgrade - you won't actually need to buy a new phone because the hardware itself will largely be peripheral to that ability. Newer versions of the hardware would just be improvements to the camera and e.g. the addition of 3G capability (assuming that hardware is absent in the initial release).

[greenamp]

Eff you iPhone.

[papadopolis]

I am sooo F***ing PISSED!!!! i think steve jobs has once failed!!! but.....!!!! AHHHH!!!!

EDIT: at least we dont have to wait as long a people for vista did lol

[Salty]

October's a little rough. But, keep in mind, there's a lot coming that we haven't seen. Least there should be. If we see some big features in June then I'll be fine. Besides they said a while ago with the introduction of Tiger that they'd be taking long between release dates. It's not the biggest deal.

[mac128k-1984]

I read something similar about the delay a month ago and the blame then was bootcamp and vista support, but now that they have the new bootcamp version out who knows. I'd like to see more corroborating articles before I fully believe this.

I wouldn't be surprised but yet I'm still a little skeptical.

[arng1]

This delay doesn't surprise me at all. To be honest, I never take a release date seriously, especially not on something as intricate as an operating system. I can only imagine what headaches are involved putting together a new OS and working on the iphone at the same time. Maybe Apple should hire more people. lol

[JKT]

Apple themselves have announced it as a PR, it isn't a story from one website alone.

[Eug]

1) This is lame. If I were Apple I might have kept my mouth shut about the reason for this. It looks very bad if Leopard is playing second fiddle to the iPhone. Well, at least you can't blame them for their honesty.

2) I betcha some developers going to WWDC are going to be very annoyed. Not only will they have the complete OS before WWDC so that they could ask questions about it at WWDC, they won't even get to see the finished product at WWDC. They have to wait until several months later.

3) The iPhone had better be the second coming of <insert diety here>.

4) I hope they didn't delay iLife and QuickTime updates as well.

5) The good news is that a new Santa Rosa iMac won't be waiting for Leopard. That means it could come as early as May, along with the other Santa Rosa products in the market.

[mac128k-1984]

I guess this is the corroborating article I was mentioning msnbc

Looks to be official, oh well. You win some you lose some, its not the first time apple has delayed an OS *cough* copeland *cough*

[brokenjago]

I would imagine that it's quite official if Apple themselves announces it.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Eug 

1) This is lame. If I were Apple I might have kept my mouth shut about the reason for this. It looks very bad if Leopard is playing second fiddle to the iPhone.

Only to Apple geeks, who will gripe but buy the thing anyway.

Originally Posted by Eug 

2) I betcha some developers going to WWDC are going to be very annoyed. Not only will they have the complete OS before WWDC so that they could ask questions about it at WWDC, they won't even get to see the finished product at WWDC. They have to wait until several months later.

That doesn't appear to be the case. They're going to be given a "nearly complete" (presumably meaning at least feature-frozen) copy of Leopard at WWDC. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to ask questions or look at it.

[CatOne]

Developers don't need the final copy of Leopard to develop their applications. What they need is a FEATURE COMPLETE copy of Leopard. That is, all the APIs are there, so they can develop. Bugs may be there, some critical, but the good thing about developers working with pre-release builds is that they find the critical API or system problems, so Apple can fix them before Leopard GMs (rather than in, say, 10.5.1 or 10.5.2).

Sure, this stinks, but bottom line is they missed the date -- either because not all the features were in there yet (owing to resources going to the iPhone), or maybe there are too many outstanding bugs to be able to ship a "quality" release by June.

Heck, every time the a new version of OS X ships people say "darn, looks like they shipped it too soon" so this time they're taking longer :-)

[schalliol]

Bummer. Well, I guess I now know the answer to the question: Will my Monday-shipping Mac Pro be provided 10.5?

[aristotles]

Grow up fanboys. Seriously, the drama is getting a little old.

I would rather see Apple release an OS release that is stable and feature complete rather than a rush job with dropped features like Vista is. Vista was already late and it is a shadow of what Longhorn was supposed to be.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by schalliol 

Bummer. Well, I guess I now now the answer to the question: Will my Monday-shipping Mac Pro be provided 10.5?

No. Next question?

[Big Mac]

Lame excuse and first missed shipping date in this history of OS X.

[macflick]

Maybe it's because I'm new to Mac but I dont see why some people are seeing this as the end of the world. Personaly I have no problem with what I have today. I feel its so much better then XP ever was! I understand Spring was the date for 10.5 and everyone was waiting to buy that new computer with the best new os on it. Okay thats nice, but have you sat down and looked at what there is now? Now compare that to what is being said for 10.5. Is there that much of a difference that prevents you from buying? Who knows really. Whats to say that the second 10.5 comes out everyone goes and buys it?

To sum it all up- Is there a sudden urge and absolute rush to have 10.5 that I just dont see?

Have a nice summer

[brokenjago]

To sum it all up- Is there a sudden urge and absolute rush to have 10.5 that I just dont see?

Yes.

In all seriousness, I'm actually also almost glad it's been delayed. As I said earlier, all eyes are on Apple and they need to get this OS release perfect if they're going to cut into Microsoft any deeper.

[hmurchison2001]

macflick...we're Mac users so we tend to skew towards the overly passionate

I think you'll find that those who feel productive with their computers are ok with this. Those who expect receive
constant Entertainment with computer product release attached every now and then are upset.

[schalliol]

I don't think that anyone thinks it's the end of the world. Leopard is looking good enough, that people really desire it (including me). It will be better in many ways, and we've been thinking it would be "available" 4-7 months earlier, so it's a bummer to be delayed like this.

[slugslugslug]

Some good points made in this thread already: it's not the end of the world (or of the Mac), but it's a bit of a bummer that they're missing a ship date. One less thing to tease Microsoft about, though I'd bet Leopard won't slip any farther.

On the one hand, Tiger is pretty great and still stacks up pretty well against Vista: It's not like current Mac users are dying for a newer OS, or like Tiger isn't still a good selling point for Macs vs. PCs. On the other hand, it kinda sucks for me for two reasons. I wanted to buy a new laptop by summer, and now if I do that it won't have Leopard on it. Second, it makes it less likely that any new Mac hardware will have higher pixel densities before the fall, since full GUI resolution independence is expected in 10.5...

[passmaster16]

Originally Posted by Mediaman_12 

The worrying thing is that iPhone dev can't/shouldn't stop once thing ships out of the door. The phone handset market is one of the fastest moving sectors around, today's 'must have' that has everyone paying ridiculous contracts to get hold of, often ends up just in one of the packages the next month, and in 6 months is the one that everyone seems to have got free in some contract 'deal' (see the Moto' Razor or the top end Sony Sony Ericsson's for examples) .
So once the iPhone ships, they need to start work on the next version with a fairly short target ship date (less than 12 months), to stop the iPhone brand looking 'stale' with Apple as a 'one hit wonder' in the the sector.
The shift of focus away from the OS, and possibly the Mac Hardware (meaningful updates here are also a bit 'thin' of late) what should be the core of the company's products is a tad worrying for the long term.
Oh and Leopard now needs to be really blindingly good, as it's will be well over 6 months later than the competition's release.

That is a good point. The fact that Apple had to pull resources off Leopard to work on iPhone should be a concern because as you said, are they going to have the development resources to dedicate to the iPhone after its release? I also agree that Leopard has to be good. Obviously stability is important but if Leopard turns out to be a lackluster release, then I think there will be some major disappointment. Personally the features that have been public knowledge for Leopard make it appear to be a lackluster release. Of course the unknown variable is that Jobs said there are some features that they do not want to make public. I would hope that these additional features are impressive enough to make the wait worthwhile. If it takes them until October to release Leopard with only the features that are slated right now, there may be some negative response from the hardcore users.

I don't have any issues with Apple delaying the release of Leopard because of iPhone. The importance of iPhone in Apple's digital life strategy is well documented. But I do think that since Apple was a computer company first, if it appears that OS X innovation is being diluted in favor of alternative electronic devices, many people will be turned off.

[stevesnj]

Unless some were in need for the few new items in Leopard I don't understand why someone is upset that Leopard is second fiddle to the iPhone, Leopard is just a point release of OS X its not like it's OS XI. Pulling resources off Leopard for the iPhone is a smart move...imagine if the iPhone was delayed until September? The stockholders and Apple buyers would be very upset.

[brokenjago]

I think that this OSs features that have been currently revealed match at least every OS X release so far.