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Drugs to help you focus?
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Landos Mustache
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Jul 28, 2006, 11:10 AM
 
My close friend has always had a problem where it is hard for him to focus on one task at a time. He always need to have 5 things going at the same time and switch between them every few seconds. Obviously it is A.D.D or something of the sort.

Even though he is surrounded by every video game, movie and other form of entertainment he is constantly bored. He admits having all these things is what probably helped caused this.

The only time he can focus on a single task is when:

1) He is playing a video game.
2) Is high on pot.

Because of this he has a very low tolerance for sugar coating and bullshit, everything needs to be right to the point even if it is brutally honest. He also cuts people off when talking because he anticipates what they are going to say and blurts out the answer. Because of that he can come off as depressed or rude even though I know he is not the least bit depressed. He tried Paxil for a while and it did calm him down a notch and make him more tolerable but the also became rather dry, gained weight and had sexual side effects. He stopped taking it after less than a year.

Pretty much what he needs is some daily drug that helps one focus and not need have anti-depressants in it or sexual side effects.

The Focusin drug that bart simpson took is round about what he needs. Any suggestions so I can approach him with it?

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Obi Wan's Ghost
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Jul 28, 2006, 11:14 AM
 
Guy, he needs meditation. It's drug free and has no side effects. Yoga class will teach him to focus his energies and use the Force.
     
iREZ
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Jul 28, 2006, 11:21 AM
 
why not take him to a professional to get it fixed proper rather than asking a board for thoughts?
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BRussell
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Jul 28, 2006, 11:24 AM
 
1. Get off the video games, movies, and other entertainment. It's not "despite that" that he's bored with real life, it's "because of that."
2. If he really needs some medicinal help, he could have a cup of coffee. It's a stimulant, and like all stimulants (e.g., ritalin), it can help people focus.
     
Landos Mustache  (op)
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Jul 28, 2006, 11:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by iREZ
why not take him to a professional to get it fixed proper rather than asking a board for thoughts?
Cuz he is sorta one of those people who isn't sure that he has a problem but if I present him with the problem AND a possible solution he would go to a doctor for sure.

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iREZ
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Jul 28, 2006, 11:41 AM
 
if it were me, id get him out of the house doing social things. i had a friend who wouldnt leave the house because of movies and video games, so i introduced him to museums, the beach, coffee shops, 3rd street prominade, etc...and now he's turned the corner acting lots more social and not exhibiting the need to play video games and watch tv. guess what im trying to say is try n slow his life down a step at a time.
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Landos Mustache  (op)
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Jul 28, 2006, 11:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by iREZ
if it were me, id get him out of the house doing social things. i had a friend who wouldnt leave the house because of movies and video games, so i introduced him to museums, the beach, coffee shops, 3rd street prominade, etc...and now he's turned the corner acting lots more social and not exhibiting the need to play video games and watch tv. guess what im trying to say is try n slow his life down a step at a time.
That's the thing. He isn't a shut in nor does he watch lots of TV (too boring). He does go out, he is sociable. But, he doesn't handle silence well. He is never in a silent room, it either has to have the TV on to listen to or music.

I am sure it is not a matter of having too many video games, he has been like this even as a kid.

Reading about ADD shows that he has all of the symptoms and it is a physical disorder so just taking away video games won't help. He needs drugs and there is nothing wrong with that. People take drugs for just about everything but people look down on you the second you take any for your head.

I found some medication online called http://www.strattera.com/index.jsp

Sounds like it might be right as it isn't a stimulant.

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Jul 28, 2006, 12:17 PM
 
A short vid about ADHD and Ritalin: Noelle's Story. The complete Frontline story is at this link.

Short attention span with rapid task switching is symptomatic of ADHD, depression, and anxiety. Before you "recommend" anything to your friend, it would be worthwhile for him to be properly diagnosed. If he won't see a shrink or psychologist, at least recommend he talk to his physician about it.

Get the facts from NIMH: ADHD, depression, and anxiety.

He also cuts people off when talking because he anticipates what they are going to say and blurts out the answer.
Hmmm, that's a Jedi trait...
     
Obi Wan's Ghost
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Jul 28, 2006, 12:24 PM
 
OK so my meditation recommend is ignored......

Tell him to take vitamins and stay away from meds because that will make him glib.

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BRussell
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Jul 28, 2006, 12:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
I found some medication online called http://www.strattera.com/index.jsp

Sounds like it might be right as it isn't a stimulant.


This is why drug companies shouldn't advertise.
     
Landos Mustache  (op)
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Jul 28, 2006, 12:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost
OK so my meditation recommend is ignored......

Tell him to take vitamins and stay away from meds because that will make him glib.
He did take vitamin supplements to try to treat it but it actually made things worse.

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medicineman
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Jul 28, 2006, 12:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
He did take vitamin supplements to try to treat it but it actually made things worse.
I'm not a great believer in ADD or ADHD. It's diagnosis is quite arbitrary, and seems to be a catch all, lately.

Vitamins are those little chemicals your body cannot make or store, that allow you to function daily. You really don't 'feel' them. Most commercial brands are quite conservative in their RDAs.

I never would recommend lay treatment.
     
mitchell_pgh
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:03 PM
 
I had the same problem when I was young... I used medication, medication and organization to solve my problem. Also, keeping lists works for me...

I would tell him to go see a doctor.
     
Landos Mustache  (op)
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by medicineman
I'm not a great believer in ADD or ADHD. It's diagnosis is quite arbitrary, and seems to be a catch all, lately.

Vitamins are those little chemicals your body cannot make or store, that allow you to function daily. You really don't 'feel' them. Most commercial brands are quite conservative in their RDAs.

I never would recommend lay treatment.
Vitamins and supplements can be even more dangerous than drugs as they are not regulated or controlled.

Some have been found to thin your blood at normal doses.

They can pretty much tell you to take whatever does they suggest for whatever symptoms and have no data to back it up.

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Jul 28, 2006, 01:06 PM
 
Ginko Biloba or some other natural form of concentration enhancing herbs. Try to stay away from western meds, as he's already experienced problems with it.
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by medicineman
I'm not a great believer in ADD or ADHD. It's diagnosis is quite arbitrary, and seems to be a catch all, lately.
Yeah, I think cancer is a made-up illness, too.
     
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
Yeah, I think cancer is a made-up illness, too.
Who died of ADHD?
     
starman
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
Yeah, I think cancer is a made-up illness, too.
You're comparing ADHD with cancer?

The problem with ADHD is that people are way too eager to slap that label on people rather than figuring out the root of the problem, and I'd bet drugs aren't the best solution.

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medicineman
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
Yeah, I think cancer is a made-up illness, too.
Perhaps this may help you understand what I'm referring to: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3568.html
     
Ulrich Kinbote
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
The only time he can focus on a single task is when:
1) He is playing a video game.
2) Is high on pot.
Find a way to incorporate these two activities into the things he wants to focus on.
     
greenamp
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:43 PM
 
http://www.add.org/index.html


Adult ADD is very real and can be debilitating if the person is not aware of it. As someone with ADD I can say with most certainty that it is very real. Sure, it may be over diagnosed in children (not even sure how accurate it is to say that) but that doesn't mean it's a pretend disability.

And for every person who makes the "it's overdiagnosed" statement I challenge you to cite the name of one person you know personally who was diagnosed and later proved to be misdiagnosed of AD/HD.

It's not that AD/HD is over diagnosed, it's that the meds are over prescribed b/c of their calming effects on children, which is an entirely different matter.
     
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:44 PM
 
We used to smack people around like that back in Jr High. They were all straightened-out by High School.
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by greenamp
It's not that AD/HD is over diagnosed, it's that the meds are over prescribed b/c of their calming effects on children, which is an entirely different matter.
I don't understand this. Presumably you're not going to be given the meds unless you're diagnosed.
     
Kevin
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:57 PM
 
This is my understanding of ADD/ADHD

Our bodies produce natural stimulants that keep the brain active. A person with ADD/ADHD doesn't produce enough therefore their brain is constantly searching for stimuli

You give someone with this problem stimulants and the problem lessons.

That is why speed tends to slow people with ADD / ADHD down.
     
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Jul 28, 2006, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost
OK so my meditation recommend is ignored......
Well I was with ya!
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Jul 28, 2006, 02:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by greenamp
And for every person who makes the "it's overdiagnosed" statement I challenge you to cite the name of one person you know personally who was diagnosed and later proved to be misdiagnosed of AD/HD.
My nephew

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greenamp
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Jul 28, 2006, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by BRussell
I don't understand this. Presumably you're not going to be given the meds unless you're diagnosed.
Well yeah. But the thing is, parents will go from doctor to doctor because they WANT their kid(s) diagnosed with AD/HD, because the natural tendency for kids to be energetic and rambunctious does not fit into their lifestyles. There are more than enough doctors around who will just make a crackpot diagnosis, prescribe some horse tranquilizers, and write up a fat bill for the session.

What's more, is that the common meds prescribed for AD/HD will also have an effect on those who don't truely have the problem, and in kids who don't truely have the disorder it renders them extremey calm and lethargic. Perfect for sh*tty parents who don't wanna take time from their schedules to actually give their kids some attention. They can just dope the kid up, plop them in front of a television set, and pop in to check of the kid's water bottle from time to time.
( Last edited by greenamp; Jul 28, 2006 at 02:18 PM. )
     
greenamp
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Jul 28, 2006, 02:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman
My nephew
Right. Now please go into details on how he was both diagnosed by a professional, and later "undiagnosed" by a professional. (Teachers and school counselers do not count)

If he truely was misdiagnosed then your brother and sister or whoever were just looking for an excuse to get the kid on drugs.

After all, it's not like kids go thumbing through the yellow pages for a proper shrink to diagnose them, or that the doctors are knocking door to door giving out meds. The parents took the 1st steps to bring their child in for evaluation, for whatever reason. That right there is the "root of the problem" you mentioned previously.
     
starman
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Jul 28, 2006, 02:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by greenamp
Right. Now please go into details on how he was both diagnosed by a professional, and later "undiagnosed" by a professional. (Teachers and school counselers do not count)

If he truely was misdiagnosed then your brother and sister were just looking for an excuse to get the kid on drugs.
Why are you such an obnoxious prick about this whole thing, pointing fingers at my family members?

Has it ever occured to you that my sister in law went to a second doctor because the FIRST one said it was ADHD?

The first doctor was wrong. End of story.

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Jul 28, 2006, 02:22 PM
 
While I agree ADD and ADHD is over diagnosed, and over medicated... it does exist. And while medication isn't always the best solution... it works for many.

There are many ways to subdue a headache, but popping a pill is the most common.
     
Landos Mustache  (op)
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Jul 28, 2006, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh
While I agree ADD and ADHD is over diagnosed, and over medicated... it does exist. And while medication isn't always the best solution... it works for many.
Exactly. It is like saying people don't have bacterial infections because anti-biotics are over prescribed.

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Jul 28, 2006, 02:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
Any suggestions so I can approach him with it?
You don't mention anything about his habits regarding this, but, I suggest a better diet and a regular exercise routine, preferably endurance cardio or weightlifting. Something to really get the body moving and the blood flowing. Works wonders or, at least, should be tried before drugs. I also second the yoga suggestion.
     
medicineman
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Jul 28, 2006, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh
While I agree ADD and ADHD is over diagnosed, and over medicated... it does exist. And while medication isn't always the best solution... it works for many.

There are many ways to subdue a headache, but popping a pill is the most common.
I don't wish to get into a discussion of ADD/ADHD. My views would only be anecdotal. But keep in mind, that it has also spawned an industry. School officials and those they associate with, have an incentive to diagnose because of funding issues.
     
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Jul 28, 2006, 02:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman
Why are you such an obnoxious prick about this whole thing, pointing fingers at my family members?

Has it ever occured to you that my sister in law went to a second doctor because the FIRST one said it was ADHD?

The first doctor was wrong. End of story.
You were the one who made the statement, "The problem with ADHD is that people are way too eager to slap that label on people rather than figuring out the root of the problem, and I'd bet drugs aren't the best solution.," which is both annoying and offensive b/c it automatically assumes that there is no "real" problem, just some baggage that needs tending to. It's a real popular thing to say these days from people who have no idea what they are talking about.


And if calling you on your generalization makes me an obnoxious prick, fine. But I explained my statements well. Your nefew very well may have been mis diagnosed, but that is it's own problem and does not make AD/HD any more or less real. I didn't mean to sling slander at your family, and I apologize. There are some parents who look for every excuse they can to dope their kids and that just really pisses me off.
( Last edited by greenamp; Jul 28, 2006 at 02:41 PM. )
     
starman
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Jul 28, 2006, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by greenamp
You were the one who made the statement, "The problem with ADHD is that people are way too eager to slap that label on people rather than figuring out the root of the problem, and I'd bet drugs aren't the best solution.," which is both annoying and offensive b/c it automatically assumes that there is no "real" problem, just some baggage that needs tending to. It's a real popular thing to say these days from people who have no idea what they are talking about.


And if calling you on your generalization makes me an obnoxious prick, fine. But I explained my statements well.
Wow. Talk about twisting words.

YOU are the one assuming, not me. I'm the one with a bunch of children in my life and I've seen what parents and teachers do when simple diet changes could make a serious differnce.

Has it occured to you that something as simple as not giving kids sugar could make a big difference in their behavior? Do you even HAVE kids?

I refuse to put my kids on any kind of bullsh*t pills.

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Jul 28, 2006, 02:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman
I refuse to put my kids on any kind of bullsh*t pills.
     
greenamp
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Jul 28, 2006, 02:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman
Wow. Talk about twisting words.

YOU are the one assuming, not me. I'm the one with a bunch of children in my life and I've seen what parents and teachers do when simple diet changes could make a serious differnce.

Has it occured to you that something as simple as not giving kids sugar could make a big difference in their behavior? Do you even HAVE kids?

I refuse to put my kids on any kind of bullsh*t pills.
Well, no I don't have kids, but I do have adult ADD, and grew up dealing with it. My wife is also a 1st grade teacher of many years, and sees the problem with over zealous ADD diagnosis 1st hand. She has also come to the same conclusion that I have, that over diagnosis is the result of bad parenting and caretaking, not an improper assesment of the severity of the disability. AD/HD is very real.


I also do not take medication, and made the decision not to as a teen, b/c I didn't and don't like the idea of being dependant on a mind altering substance for my well being. But that's my choice and my situation may not be the same as others.

I don't judge people who do takes meds though, and I'd never classify medication someone was depending on to function properly as "bullshit pills," as there are times and have been times when I could have benefited from a little help.
( Last edited by greenamp; Jul 28, 2006 at 03:03 PM. )
     
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman
I refuse to put my kids on any kind of bullsh*t pills.
So if any of your kids develops any kind of disorder: no pills? Or just "no pills" for ADHD?

Originally Posted by Gossamer
Who died of ADHD?
You have to risk death from something for it to be real for you?

Originally Posted by starman
You're comparing ADHD with cancer?
They are both real medical conditions, so yes.

Originally Posted by starman
The problem with ADHD is that people are way too eager to slap that label on people rather than figuring out the root of the problem, and I'd bet drugs aren't the best solution.
The root might be physical. People are born blind, lame, or deaf, right? Why can't you accept that people can be born with brain problems, too?

Originally Posted by RAILhead
We used to smack people around like that back in Jr High. They were all straightened-out by High School.
head.

Originally Posted by mitchell_pgh
While I agree ADD and ADHD is over diagnosed, and over medicated... it does exist. And while medication isn't always the best solution... it works for many.
Actually, the medical community believes ADHD is under-diagnosed.
     
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by medicineman
Perhaps this may help you understand what I'm referring to: http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-3568.html
Your statement doesn't seem to be supported by this article. In fact, it affirms ADHD as a diagnosis and how helpful ADHD medications can be.
     
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:17 PM
 
Try having your friend cut out Red-40. They tried to diagnose me with ADHD as a child, but my mother would let the put me on Riddlin. Especially after the emotional problems that developed with one of my cousins. She took red-40 out of my diet, and things became much better.
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:17 PM
 
Did your friend get a checkup to see if he have Hyperthyroid or Hypothryoid. It can cause severe lack of focus on one thing at a time due to imbalanced hormones.

I just got on it last week and effect should kick in next two to four weeks.
     
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
Your statement doesn't seem to be supported by this article. In fact, it affirms ADHD as a diagnosis and how helpful ADHD medications can be.
"ADHD may manifest in a variety of ways: restlessness and distraction, short- term memory impairment, blurting out inappropriate thoughts, difficulty organizing activities, failing to follow through on a project or finish one's work. In short, all behaviors that are part of being human in the modern world."

"Some researchers say there is a danger of creating different standards for various strata of society."

This is not an argument I want to get into. You can make your own evaluation.
     
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Adam Betts
Did your friend get a checkup to see if he have Hyperthyroid or Hypothryoid. It can cause severe lack of focus on one thing at a time due to imbalanced hormones.

I just got on it last week and effect should kick in next two to four weeks.

Just got on what?

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Landos Mustache  (op)
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Rumor
Try having your friend cut out Red-40. They tried to diagnose me with ADHD as a child, but my mother would let the put me on Riddlin. Especially after the emotional problems that developed with one of my cousins. She took red-40 out of my diet, and things became much better.
Isn't red 40 bug blood?

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Jul 28, 2006, 05:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
Just got on what?
Hypothyroid medicine Levothyroxine
     
Kevin
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by RAILhead
We used to smack people around like that back in Jr High. They were all straightened-out by High School.
Then they weren't ADD/ADHD

People don't just grow out of it.
     
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
Then they weren't ADD/ADHD

People don't just grow out of it.
According to RAILhead, you can smack the ADHD out of someone.
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:31 PM
 
familydoctor.org

We used to think children would "grow out" of ADHD. We now know that is not true for most children. Children with ADHD often get better as they grow older and learn to adjust to their problems. Hyperactivity usually stops in the late teenage years. But about half of children with ADHD continue to be easily distracted, with mood swings, hot tempers and an inability to complete tasks. Children with loving, supportive parents who work together with school staff, mental health workers and their doctor have the best chance of becoming well-adjusted adults.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jul 28, 2006, 05:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by medicineman
"ADHD may manifest in a variety of ways: restlessness and distraction, short- term memory impairment, blurting out inappropriate thoughts, difficulty organizing activities, failing to follow through on a project or finish one's work. In short, all behaviors that are part of being human in the modern world."

"Some researchers say there is a danger of creating different standards for various strata of society."
Then I guess you missed everything on the second page, hmm?

Originally Posted by medicineman
This is not an argument I want to get into. You can make your own evaluation.
For a person who doesn't want an argument, you sure know how to stir one up.

The first paragraph you quoted really stood out to me when I read it. Why?

"ADHD may manifest in a variety of ways: restlessness and distraction, short- term memory impairment, blurting out inappropriate thoughts, difficulty organizing activities, failing to follow through on a project or finish one's work. In short, all behaviors that are part of being human in the modern world."
The bolded parts are also symptoms of depression, but from that same article:

"But unlike the fairly clear-cut symptoms of depression and schizophrenia, symptoms of ADHD are considerably fuzzier."
Is this a joke? Neither depression nor schizophrenia are any more "clear-cut" than ADHD.

This line is the one you have clearly misinterpreted: "In short, all behaviors that are part of being human in the modern world."

Duh. All mental disorders are typically exaggerations of everyday behaviors.

Can you imagine someone saying "depression isn't real, because sadness, forgetfulness, and loneliness are all part of being human" ??
     
ghporter
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Jul 28, 2006, 07:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by medicineman
I'm not a great believer in ADD or ADHD. It's diagnosis is quite arbitrary, and seems to be a catch all, lately.
It takes special training and experience to properly diagnose ADD or ADHD; teachers do NOT have this training, and most primary physicians don't either. These conditions DO EXIST, and can have devastating affects on a person's development. On the other hand, too many practitioners without the real qualifications to diagnose attention deficit blithely go about doing so, to the detriment of their patients and the public's impression of attention deficit disorders.

If most people who were irregular managed to get diagnosed with colon cancer, the impression the public would have of this deadly disease would be severely impacted, research would fall off and more people would die. Every day thousands of kids have their lived trashed because they ARE ADD or ADHD and they're just labeled "troublemakers." This must stop.

Lando, caffiene is a good "drug" to use for concentration. It actually works in many (properly diagnosed) cases of ADD. Pot, on the other hand, does the opposite... Maybe your friend should stop that just to see if he's distracted because of pot and not just in general.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
 
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