[Millennium]

Originally posted by tkmd:
Spotlight- I dont care for it. I mean I really think its going to slow the system down. Even after the 2 hours just baseline indexing after Tiger installation (remember the "indexing" during the OS 9 days?)

That depends on how it's implemented. It should, in theory, only affect three things: saving files, deleting files, and displaying files in the Finder (and then only for Smart Folders). These are the only times the Spotlight database needs to be accessed. Other than these, the only way it should affect performance would be the time it takes to display one extra menu item, which is pretty negligible.

If Spotlight is properly implemented, there shouldn't be a need for dedicated "indexing time" after the baseline index is done. Instead, when a file is saved or deleted, the Spotlight index should be updated to match. Since it sounds like they plan to use SQLite for working with the index, that shouldn't cause much of a speed hit at all.

The one area where this stands to cause any kind of real performance hit would be in terms of RAM usage. SQLite itself doesn't have a lot of overhead, but the actual database will probably take up several megs.

[zzarg]

for me the killer will be a sync service that keeps me Entourage, iCal, T610 (soon to be A1000) and Palm all in sync without 3rd party hacks and kludges.

after that... performance and stability

An improved Safari is great (stability, performance, rendering), but I'm scared Desktop will take too much processing power to be useful.
Spotlight sounds interesting but unless it can actually organise me (and work with Entourage) I can't see it changing my world

I just want a shipping date so I know if to buy my new machine now and fork out for Tiger a week later, or wait 2 weeks and get it bundled !

[OtisWild]

Services menu in right-click.

I really want to see that in the Finder and everywhere else. As it is, there's no real linkage between the two at a systems level (Services is cocoa, Finder is carbon).

Services is super super useful, and right-click (or ctrl-click in single-button-mouse-speak) is great for context-specific menus. The two should be joined so that if I right-click on a link I get a services context menu that shows me all the services for a URL datatype, if I right-click on a highlighted email address I should get a services context menu to send email to that address, if I right-click on a window or title bar I should get a services context menu to run Grab on that thing, etc.

It could be very cool, much better than any other UI's right-mouse.

[OtisWild]

Originally posted by travism:
Mail is a pretty nice application and could use some upgrades. I would love to see it work with gpg (if it does already, I haven't out how).

It does already.

http://www.sente.ch/software/GPGMail/

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Core Image, but it's not on there.

That's why I voted for Quicktime.

[Radish]

I'm waiting for the QuickTime Player app to be dragged out of the dark ages and given Cocoa underpinnings and a better UI. It's still crappy Carbon!
iQuickTime maybe?

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Radish:
I'm waiting for the QuickTime Player app to be dragged out of the dark ages and given Cocoa underpinnings and a better UI. It's still crappy Carbon!

Why do you care what Apple uses to make it? Unless you're on the development team, it doesn't make any difference to you at all.

[Marook]

Originally posted by travism:
Spotlight sounds like something that may be useful but I just don't see how often I will need to do a more inclusive search than what a locate or whereis can already do for me.

It seems liek people is not really getting what Spotlight is all about. As mentioned earlier in this thread, it's ALL about Metadata.

Locate: search for files where query match something in the path of the file.
Whereis: search for applications in the default bin/ paths.

Spotlight: Search every file or applications data where there is a Spotlight plugin enabled. This means EXIF data in photos and QuickTime movies.
It means free-text of text or PDF document.
It means select an Address Book name card and select 'Spotlight <name>' to get a complete list of ALL places this persons name or details are mentions on your system.

This list goes on, and will expand when the API goes public. This feature is gonna blow Google Desktop and M$ Search into neverland.

[MPMoriarty]

I am really excited about spotlight.

I am constantly tagging my music files in iTunes so I can find them faster and come up with more creative and useful smart playlists. The ability to do this with the rest of my files in the Finder will be something I look forward to.

It's not that I am bad at keeping my files organized. In fact, I do a pretty good job. But where Spotlight will help me is by being able to pull together a list of files that are not necessarily in the same folder or category, but are related in some way.

[Geobunny]

Resolution independent UI. Surprised no-one's mentioned this yet.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Tyler McAdams:
That's why I voted for Quicktime.

Hey, you're right. Just watched the WWDC again. Any app that can take advantage of QuickTime can use Core Image. So my vote will go to QuickTime.

[dru]

Originally posted by andreas_g4:
New FInder, hands down.

Right! It can't be as unstable as the old 'new' Finders now can it? *grumble*

Seriously, the Finder in Panther is SLOW in a folder with a non-trivial number of items and secondly, heaven help you if you're making routine use of thumbnail previews because the Finder will die off (do I smell memory leaks?)

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally posted by Geobunny:
Resolution independent UI. Surprised no-one's mentioned this yet.

No one has any idea if it will be done by the time Tiger arrives...

[dru]

Originally posted by Chuckit:


Why do you care what Apple uses to make it? Unless you're on the development team, it doesn't make any difference to you at all.

Quicktime sucks. MPEG2 playback is not nearly as efficient via Quicktime Pro with MPEG2 as the open source, crossplatform project VLC. Quicktime Pro is brain dead as well. You can PLAYBACK movies that you can't EXPORT because it'll suddenly say there's no damned video or sound track. It has no clue about how to export if it has to demux. This is ridiculous!

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by dru:
Quicktime sucks. MPEG2 playback is not nearly as efficient via Quicktime Pro with MPEG2 as the open source, crossplatform project VLC. Quicktime Pro is brain dead as well. You can PLAYBACK movies that you can't EXPORT because it'll suddenly say there's no damned video or sound track. It has no clue about how to export if it has to demux. This is ridiculous!

Which has what to do with Carbon?

[JEB]

Well, I gotta admit, all the acknowledgement Apple's been getting of late, really kicks-boooty. OSX 10.3 / iLife '04 and '05 . . . no virii . . . what's not to like already?

I think I choose Spotlight . . . but not for myself, but for how much other people will!!!

This is what the masses will be helped by most, including my in-laws (hopefully), sister, mom, etc.

Hopefully Spotlight will make people close to all of us at home, and work . . . become less teckno-phobic, and reaaaalllly enjoy Macs . . . if you get my drift.

[garyp]

Core Graphics wasn't even in the poll, but it is the Tiger feature that I , as an artist, most look forward to.

[drbones666]

I still remember Apples promise of a .mac address FOR FREE for the rest of our lives. With that out of the way, I'd like to see an iSync program that doesn't require a .mac account.

[ja]

Core Image.

Having used the 30-day Motion trial as an indicator of what is to come, I'd say that this is easily the most important addition that will be in Tiger. It won't be obvious straight away as developers will need to integrate it into their apps, but the power it will offer in the future will hopefully be incredible.

I am definitely looking forward to spotlight and Mail [and Addressbook smart folders!], but I agree that Core Image is going to be a killer.
It is going to lead a a very Adobe-alternative world. very powerful tool for developers

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

I voted for Automator, of course

[lngtones]

Originally posted by drbones666:
I still remember Apples promise of a .mac address FOR FREE for the rest of our lives. With that out of the way, I'd like to see an iSync program that doesn't require a .mac account.

It's sad to hear that your memory is fading. You know, I've always heard that the hallucinations are the first step...

[simX]

Originally posted by drbones666:
I still remember Apples promise of a .mac address FOR FREE for the rest of our lives.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by ja:
I am definitely looking forward to spotlight and Mail [and Addressbook smart folders!], but I agree that Core Image is going to be a killer.
It is going to lead a a very Adobe-alternative world. very powerful tool for developers

How will offloading image filters to the graphics card "lead to a very Adobe-alternative world"? Do you reckon somebody would've written a Creative Suite-killer years ago if only he'd been able to figure out how to talk to the GPU?

[DeathMan]

Originally posted by Chuckit:
How will offloading image filters to the graphics card "lead to a very Adobe-alternative world"? Do you reckon somebody would've written a Creative Suite-killer years ago if only he'd been able to figure out how to talk to the GPU?

The CI toolkit has a lot of the hard math and manipulation already built into it. gaussian blur, color mods, transforming, rotation... you get the idea.

The offloading to the GPU is just icing for those people.

However, I'm not sure how it would work with outputting something like a blurred item? is there a rasterization process that has to happen?

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by garyp:
Core Graphics wasn't even in the poll, but it is the Tiger feature that I , as an artist, most look forward to.

Core Image is a part of QuickTime, so vote for QuickTime.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by DeathMan:
The CI toolkit has a lot of the hard math and manipulation already built into it. gaussian blur, color mods, transforming, rotation... you get the idea.

Yeah, but algorithms for those things are all either built into OS X (affine transforms) or freely available. I've never tried, so maybe there's some hump to graphics software that I just don't know about, but I find it hard to see how those can be the big obstacles to making a Photoshop-type app.

Originally posted by DeathMan:
However, I'm not sure how it would work with outputting something like a blurred item? is there a rasterization process that has to happen?

Since Quartz allows drawing into arbitrary contexts, I'd hope it's possible to use CoreImage in that drawing.

[Boondoggle]

Originally posted by drbones666:
I still remember Apples promise of a .mac address FOR FREE for the rest of our lives. With that out of the way, I'd like to see an iSync program that doesn't require a .mac account.

How do you know you're still alive?

bd

[Boondoggle]

Originally posted by Geobunny:
Resolution independent UI. Surprised no-one's mentioned this yet.

what is that?

bd

[SomeToast]

Originally posted by JEB:
no virii . . . what's not to like already?

Another mis-pluralization of "viruses"?

[theolein]

I don't think that any single one of these new technologies is somehow better than the others. Together they make for a fantastic new package that rawks!

I personally think Automator will be fantastic, as it allows one to chain commands and results and applications together the way one can do on the command line. Want to open a whole bunch of files in preview, resize them, save them, rename them in the finder numerically, then save them to a backup server? Automator will do that. The limits are only in the amount of support an application gives to AppleScript and Apple events.

But then there's dashboard. Want to roll a quick and dirty company client side groupware notification widget? Dashboard will let you do that. Work in a courier agency and need an app that gets incoming package notifications off a web server? Dashboard will let you do that. I think a lot of the doodahs that Apple supplies as default widgets are mainly eye candy, but Dashboard has real advantages in that it uses standard html/css/javascript, which, in conjunction with the crapload of stuff offered on the web these days in the form of web services and RSS feeds etc offer companies time saving mini applications that do what Microsoft's VBS/Windows Scripting/Active Desktop failed to do properly. (One place I used to work, we had our Notes based groupware in an Active Desktop window, but it never worked properly due to limitations of the technology)

And I agree with Diller that as soon as Core Image is out, there will be a rush of Image Editing apps trying to be Photoshop clones. However, the intricacies of actual fast pixel manipulation are still to be done. In other words you still have to write your own fast brushes etc. And this applies to vector graphics as well. Cocoa has supplied bezier editing stuff since its inception, and many apps, such as Omni Graffle use them, but none of them are anywhere near as fast as Illustrator or Freehand. I don't think it's realistic to expect code that has been continuously optimised for 15 years to be outdone with an overnight app.

In any case, I think Tiger will build on OSX' strengths and offer improvements that make its uptake both with consumers and businesses better.

[Jawbone54]

Some have complained about the attention given to Spotlight, saying, "I don't use a search tool at all anyways." Maybe Spotlight will give us a reason to START using it. When I switched to a Mac last year, there are things that I began to love that I never really wanted before because I didn't know they existed. Make sense? I'm optimistic about Spotlight, but I voted for Dashboard, mainly because I'm a hopeless sucker for the widgets. Mmmm..widgets!

[silversurf2002]

Apple should pull the finger and make both of these apps useable and open and adaptable so you can actually use them for business. I use them both, but they are severely constrained. I hope they do a major overhaul for Tiger

[silversurf2002]

(prior message)
I was just talking about voting for other...and addreess book and in particular iCal!!

[Randman]

Originally posted by drbones666:
I still remember Apples promise of a .mac address FOR FREE for the rest of our lives. With that out of the way, I'd like to see an iSync program that doesn't require a .mac account.

Considering that Backup and iSync will be merged into .Mac Sync, it doe4sn't appear that you'll get your wish.

[MacGallant]

I'm most excited about Optimized Kernel Locking in Tiger-it should provide a modest performance boost to Dual Processor Systems

Secondly, I'm hoping for GPU accellerated UI that'll make the UI feel more snappy

Finally, I hope they make Safari on par in rendering speed with the Web Browsers on Windows PCs.

[rjudd]

I'm looking forward to using Java 5.

Shame the SDK takes a lot longer to come out on X than x86 Linux or Windows.

[Tyre MacAdmin]

Originally posted by MacGallant:
I'm most excited about Optimized Kernel Locking in Tiger-it should provide a modest performance boost to Dual Processor Systems

Secondly, I'm hoping for GPU accellerated UI that'll make the UI feel more snappy

Finally, I hope they make Safari on par in rendering speed with the Web Browsers on Windows PCs.

Exactly.

[OtisWild]

Originally posted by Chuckit:


Why do you care what Apple uses to make it? Unless you're on the development team, it doesn't make any difference to you at all.

This is not necessarily true. There's stuff related to the Finder in particular that is cannot cross the divide in a consistent way. The underlying technology matters when it can't be properly or cleanly integrated from app to app.

Everything Apple does needs to be Cocoa, with proper framework support and all the flexibility that Cocoa can provide. Carbon is really supposed to be a porting layer, nothing new or built into the OS from Apple should be using it anymore.

[OtisWild]

Originally posted by Randman:
Considering that Backup and iSync will be merged into .Mac Sync, it doe4sn't appear that you'll get your wish.

I use iSync to keep my P800 sync'd. Is iSync going away?

Talk about a reason to NOT upgrade...

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by OtisWild:
This is not necessarily true. There's stuff related to the Finder in particular that is cannot cross the divide in a consistent way. The underlying technology matters when it can't be properly or cleanly integrated from app to app.

What are you talking about? And more importantly, what does it have to do with QuickTime Player?

Originally posted by OtisWild:
Everything Apple does needs to be Cocoa, with proper framework support and all the flexibility that Cocoa can provide. Carbon is really supposed to be a porting layer, nothing new or built into the OS from Apple should be using it anymore.

Do you have anything but your say-so to back this up?

If Carbon were only meant to be a "porting layer," then it wouldn't make much sense for Apple to deprecate most of the Cocoa menu API in favor of Menu Manager, or for several other Cocoa types (such as NSDocument) to be built on top of Carbon calls. Never mind the fact that Apple is constantly updating Carbon to make it more convenient and Cocoa-like to create applications with (see HIView and support for nibs).

[Millennium]

Originally posted by OtisWild:
This is not necessarily true. There's stuff related to the Finder in particular that is cannot cross the divide in a consistent way.

Untrue.

The underlying technology matters when it can't be properly or cleanly integrated from app to app.

Always possible. Not always clean, and the effort is sadly not always put in, but it's even possible to call Cocoa windows from Carbon apps.

Carbon is really supposed to be a porting layer, nothing new or built into the OS from Apple should be using it anymore.

Either you're a Cocoa zealot, or you don't know what Carbon is.

It is true that back in the earliest days of OSX -as in, well before even the Public Beta was released- Carbon was considered a porting layer. Apple decided against going this route well before OSX's release, however, and now supports Carbon on an equal footing with Cocoa. The two codebases are slowly merging, in fact, so that eventually Cocoa will itself be a layer on top of Carbon. This process began in 10.2, with Carbon's HIView system; several Cocoa controls (including NSButton, arguably the most commonly-used Cocoa class out there) are now implemented on top of it.

The integration is, admittedly, not yet at the point where you can freely mix controls from the two systems in the same window. However, it is possible to use Cocoa windows from Carbon apps, and vice versa.

[Goldfinger]

OT: wow you're over 10k Millennium.

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by Millennium:
several Cocoa controls (including NSButton, arguably the most commonly-used Cocoa class out there) are now implemented on top of it.

The integration is, admittedly, not yet at the point where you can freely mix controls from the two systems in the same window. However, it is possible to use Cocoa windows from Carbon apps, and vice versa.

The second paragraph here is pretty much what I thought, but in that case, how can NSButton be "implemented on top of it"?

[[APi]TheMan]

I voted Finder (read-only FTP, bugginess in views, etc), but I'm really looking forward to the third party stuff that's gonna be going on in Tiger. I can't wait to see applications like Adium, Quicksilver, Growl, and Desktop Manager take advantage of all the sweet new Tiger developer APIs.

[OtisWild]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Untrue.

Always possible. Not always clean, and the effort is sadly not always put in, but it's even possible to call Cocoa windows from Carbon apps.

Either you're a Cocoa zealot, or you don't know what Carbon is.

OK then, how do you address the Services menu from a context-sensitive menu finder plugin? How do you do the translation between AEDescLists and NSMenus?

It may very well be possible. It is certainly unpleasant.

[turtle777]

What happened to the email triggered coffee machine ?

-t

[undotwa]

Originally posted by SomeToast:
Another mis-pluralization of "viruses"?

As a latinist, this is a personal beef of mine. People often insist using Latin plurals in English even though they don't know how to use them in Latin. Just because there is 'us' doesn't mean it forms the plural in 'i'. Virus, after all, has no plural. 'cornus' forms the plural as 'cornus' (4th declension noun). Corpus forms the plural as 'corpera' etc. (3rd declension NEUTER noun). Only 2nd declension masculine nouns form the plural like this.

[travism]

Originally posted by Dog Like Nature:
You've never used Solaris? Tru64? HP-UX? What kind of UNIX guru are you??

a poor one who has only messed with the free BSDs. Well at least with actual system administration experience. I _may_ play around with Solaris x86 on my test box but I don't know how it will like ancient Compaq hardware and I haven't begun to look at how nicely it will play with my Windows/Slackware/FreeBSD set up that currently lives on that box (It maily runs as a FreeBSD web server but I test web server things under linux and windows as well to simulate different environments)

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally posted by [APi]TheMan:
I voted Finder (read-only FTP, bugginess in views, etc), but I'm really looking forward to the third party stuff that's gonna be going on in Tiger. I can't wait to see applications like Adium, Quicksilver, Growl, and Desktop Manager take advantage of all the sweet new Tiger developer APIs.

Most likely, Adium won't take full advantage of alot of Tiger. Right now they can do alot more, but won't for the sake of backwards compatibility with 10.2 (which will stop being supported when 10.4 is released)

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by Millennium:
This process began in 10.2, with Carbon's HIView system; several Cocoa controls (including NSButton, arguably the most commonly-used Cocoa class out there) are now implemented on top of it.

Stop claiming that non-sense. No Cocoa views � and therefore none of the Cocoa controls � are nor will be based on HIViews.