[The Final Shortcut]

Yeah, Denver or Houston would have been interesting!

[sek929]

The Bengals have not scored a TD in their first two games. I don't have anything else to add I just think that's impressively terrible.

[sek929]

Dallas Cowboys star running back Ezekiel Elliott rushed nine times for a career-low eight yards against the Denver Broncos on Sunday

Denver's D, much scary.

Hilariously low attendance totals for the LA Rams and the LA Chargers. Greedy asshole billionaire owners ripped teams away from their home markets because municipalities were smart enough to say "no" when asked to finance their stadiums and now no-one gives a shit about these games.

If stogie still lurks around, I know you're a Raiders guy, you going to stick with them even after the move to Vegas?

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Hilariously low attendance totals for the LA Rams and the LA Chargers. Greedy asshole billionaire owners ripped teams away from their home markets because municipalities were smart enough to say "no" when asked to finance their stadiums and now no-one gives a shit about these games.

...and Kroenke refuses to spend money on Arsenal (despite their consistent income) because he's using the club as collateral in the loan for his new L.A. stadium. Arsenal fans chant against him weekly during the games.

People like Kroenke are ruining some aspects of sports. It's purely an enterprise for him — no interest or passion.

[sek929]

I can't fathom the balls it takes to use public funds to finance a stadium for a team you just moved from a place the team already sucked at (yet had a consistent fanbase) from the early 00s-today. 17 years of fielding a mediocre product and you want a shiny stadium in a new city to display all this ineptitude?

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

...and Kroenke refuses to spend money on Arsenal (despite their consistent income) because he's using the club as collateral in the loan for his new L.A. stadium. Arsenal fans chant against him weekly during the games.

People like Kroenke are ruining some aspects of sports. It's purely an enterprise for him — no interest or passion.

There are two types in the current generation of Football club owners. The type looking to turn a profit in some way, Kroenke, FSG, the Glazer family, and the plaything/status symbol crew like Abramovich, Sheik Mansour and Qatar at PSG. The problem with the former is they don't like spending £200m on one player so they end up failing to compete with their peers. The latter eventually get bored. Abramovich curtailed his spending well before FFP kicked in and Chelsea are actually running pretty smoothly these days. Financially speaking. Every time you think they are spending silly money, it turns out their net spend is a net profit.
Manchester City and PSG are unsustainable in the long term. If PSG win a champions league or two, Qatar will get bored. Or they'll get bored after they host the World Cup.
Kroenke's way is actually quite responsible. Its frustrating, but its sustainable.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Abramovich curtailed his spending well before FFP kicked in and Chelsea are actually running pretty smoothly these days. Financially speaking. Every time you think they are spending silly money, it turns out their net spend is a net profit.

It pains me to agree with you in regards to Chelsea, but they have become far more responsible with their spending, though they're far more decisive than Wenger, Dick Law, Gazidis, and the crew.

Manchester City and PSG are unsustainable in the long term. If PSG win a champions league or two, Qatar will get bored. Or they'll get bored after they host the World Cup. Kroenke's way is actually quite responsible. Its frustrating, but its sustainable.

Kroenke (and by proxy, Wenger) is "responsible," but we also turned a £20m profit during a transfer window in which we were tipped to spend £150m. It's infuriating.

I definitely agree with you in regards to Chelsea and PSG. There's no way Qatar maintains interest after any significant success. However, with Neymar and Cavani already bickering over penalties, I wonder if they'll ever have the cohesion to make a dent in the Champion's League.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Kroenke (and by proxy, Wenger) is "responsible," but we also turned a £20m profit during a transfer window in which we were tipped to spend £150m. It's infuriating.

Perhaps a little too responsible. Understandable though, they got away for years hitting the top 4 cash jackpot without spending much at all. Had to end sooner or later.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

I definitely agree with you in regards to Chelsea and PSG. There's no way Qatar maintains interest after any significant success. However, with Neymar and Cavani already bickering over penalties, I wonder if they'll ever have the cohesion to make a dent in the Champion's League.

Ultimately they aren't in a competitive enough league IMO. Its not unthinkable they could win something but when all you do is write big cheques, all you get is big egos. Leicester have highlighted it better than anyone, but so have Real and Barca: You need a team, not a group of egos. Real have progressed no end having marginalised Bale a bit which is likely keeping Ronaldo much happier. Meanwhile Barca have gone off the boil and it turns out to coincide with Neymar plotting his escape so he can be the biggest fish in a smaller but richer pond.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

It's funny that the best football game all day was ECU vs UConn. (No joke, it was an amazing 38-41 game, decided by a missed 34 yard FG with time expiring.)

F*ck the NFL and their rich, over-privileged prima donna players. It was one thing to diss the USA by taking a knee during the Anthem here, we're Americans and we protest things, but quite another to do it overseas (and then stand for "God Save the Queen"). This season is done for me, get your sh** together Goodell, or in 2 more years you won't have a league anymore (seriously, viewership is down 35% since just last year).

[sek929]

Nobody cared when the NFL was literally charging the army money for their phony “salute to service” horseshit but everyone loses their minds over players protesting peacefully during a song.

I should have known CTP would be triggered over this.

Nfl ratings are down because broadcast television is dying, the amount of commercials per game and the overall poor quality of the games...from terrible QBs league-wide to flags being thrown on every other play. It has nothing to do with the goddamn anthem.

[besson3c]

sek929: I don't follow football at all, but is turnoff over the amount of concussions a factor too?

[andi*pandi]

NFL Players who hit their wives, cheat, etc: <crickets>
NFL Players who take a knee: Sons of bitches!

I love the anthem, it makes me feel very patriotic... even knowing about its history, and the long-removed 3rd verse. Yet I think these guys have the right to protest. They are not protesting against the flag itself, or veterans, but the way certain people are treated.

[The Final Dakar]

More to the point, Andi, owners don't have problems hiring dog killers and domestic abusers but draw the line at kneeling.

[sek929]

I feel like your average fan is aware and doesn’t approve of how the league has handled (obfuscated really) the truth about brain injury but will look the other way if the games are entertaining enough. Much like fanbases and teams looking the other way on women beaters and criminals if they play well enough.

Your average NFL fan is sick of constant commercials and intrusive/inconsistent officiating. The violence inherent in the game is killing the youth football scene, which will ultimately be the NFLs downfall.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

NFL Players who hit their wives, cheat, etc: <crickets>
NFL Players who take a knee: Sons of bitches!

For a fun read look into Josh Brown (former Giants kicker) and his domestic violence history. The team was well aware of his history and took him anyways. This is because any semblance of “honor” spouted by these franchises are complete and utter horseshit, as is faux outrage over players taking a knee during a song.

[subego]

There are so many good reasons to kneel during the anthem, doing it because of ****ing moronic tweets has permanently devalued the gesture.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

There are so many good reasons to kneel during the anthem, doing it because of ****ing moronic tweets has permanently devalued the gesture.

That's a fairly cynical read of the situation. The kneeling isn't for the tweet. It's the same as before. The tweet merely moved them to action.

[Chongo]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

NFL Players who hit their wives, cheat, etc: <crickets>
NFL Players who take a knee: Sons of bitches!

I love the anthem, it makes me feel very patriotic... even knowing about its history, and the long-removed 3rd verse. Yet I think these guys have the right to protest. They are not protesting against the flag itself, or veterans, but the way certain people are treated.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

More to the point, Andi, owners don't have problems hiring dog killers and domestic abusers but draw the line at kneeling.

Just ask Tim Tebow.

Is this correct?

Rule 5, which covers Players, Substitutes, Equipment, and General Rules, does include (in Article 8) a section prohibiting players from “conveying personal messages” throughout the game day while they are visible to fans in attendance and television audiences, and from “convey[ing] messages, through helmet decals, arm bands, jersey patches, or other items affixed to game uniforms or equipment, which relate to political activities or causes“

Was this the rule Goodell cited to prevent the Cowboys from honoring the assassinated Dallas PD officers?

[The Final Dakar]

Yeah they're assholes about uniforms. They kept a guy from wearing pink on his sneakers to honor his mothers fight with breast cancer, I believe.

So?

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I feel like your average fan is aware and doesn’t approve of how the league has handled (obfuscated really) the truth about brain injury but will look the other way if the games are entertaining enough. Much like fanbases and teams looking the other way on women beaters and criminals if they play well enough.

Your average NFL fan is sick of constant commercials and intrusive/inconsistent officiating. The violence inherent in the game is killing the youth football scene, which will ultimately be the NFLs downfall.

All of this is true, especially the bit about youth football.

There's no way I'd steer my sons towards football, even living in the Deep South. It's either basketball or soccer (if they're interested in sports at all).

[sek929]

I was working for a family that has a summer home up here but is from Florida.

Three of her 6(!) sons play college ball and each one was in some phase of injury/surgery/rehabilitation. Football is a meat grinder, but now more than ever we know about long term damage that goes well beyond "aches and pains" later in life. Suicide, drug abuse and extreme depression/anxiety are far to big a price to pay for sport, and there's no way in hell my kids will play anything football related unless it's flag football.

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

That's a fairly cynical read of the situation. The kneeling isn't for the tweet. It's the same as before. The tweet merely moved them to action.

Then they have hitched their protest to an impressively unmoving tweet.

I'm more inclined to believe they're retaliating for being told not to do something by doing it.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

All of this is true, especially the bit about youth football.

There's no way I'd steer my sons towards football, even living in the Deep South. It's either basketball or soccer (if they're interested in sports at all).

Soccer might not be a better option. Headers may also contribute to VTE.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

Then they have hitched their protest to an impressively unmoving tweet.

I'm more inclined to believe they're retaliating for being told not to do something by doing it.

Or they're defending Caepernic and his cause.

There's also the defending free speech matter. Think of it like open carry after hearing someone trash guns.

[sek929]

They heard our fat, soft as goose shit, trust-fund baby President call their fellow players “sons of bitches” that should be fired. The brotherhood of NFL players took a stand to defend their own.

[andi*pandi]

I was pleasantly surprised some of the owners did as well. Except Texas. Of course.

[The Final Dakar]

Yeah I was glad to hear from owners and even some of the moron talking heads on it.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Soccer might not be a better option. Headers may also contribute to VTE.

True, but they're not yet entirely certain to what extent.

I know that many youth programs have outlawed heading the ball until a later age, as a large part of soccer's problem is developed when players are younger and still developing. After a quick Google search, I couldn't find the articles that reference the study. Hopefully, I can find it later.

[sek929]

In youth soccer they no longer head the ball and in high school they put limits on how long heading drills during practice may be.

I can solve the concussion epidemic in the NFL really easily. Step one: Remove helmets and use Rugby rules for form tackling, done. Once NFL players were given ballistic armor to wear they were able to collide at tremendous speeds, take away the helmets and pads and now superficial injuries become more common but constant brain trauma will plummet.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I should have known CTP would be triggered over this.

Sorry (not sorry) to disappoint you. I don't care if they protest, not here in the USA. They can kneel, do jumping-jacks, rub one out, I don't care. But when they go abroad and play int'l games they're ambassadors of this country.

I also have many issues with the NFL across the board, esp the way they ignore issues with injuries and ignore repeated criminal behavior. So choose someone else to get your berries in a twist over.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I can solve the concussion epidemic in the NFL really easily. Step one: Remove helmets and use Rugby rules for form tackling, done. Once NFL players were given ballistic armor to wear they were able to collide at tremendous speeds, take away the helmets and pads and now superficial injuries become more common but constant brain trauma will plummet.

"Done", eh? I guess you like thinking that Rugby players are at lower risk for severe injury, esp brain damage, compared to football? Turns out it's just as bad, yet football gets more coverage.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...-injury-risks/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rug...d-players.html

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

when they go abroad and play int'l games they're ambassadors of this country.

NFL should stop sending the Jaguars then.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

I have no idea what that even means.

[sek929]

Since 2007 when the international series began the Jaguars are 53-107. They’ve played 5 times in London, they’re pretty poor ambassadors of the game.

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Or they're defending Caepernic and his cause.

There's also the defending free speech matter. Think of it like open carry after hearing someone trash guns.

Originally Posted by sek929 

They heard our fat, soft as goose shit, trust-fund baby President call their fellow players “sons of bitches” that should be fired. The brotherhood of NFL players took a stand to defend their own.

If I kneel for the anthem I'm indicting the country.

My sense of camaraderie, regardless of how strong it is, is not a valid reason to indict the country.

If my ability to kneel were under threat by the NFL, who would be the only people able to threaten it in this context, I don't indict the country for it.

The only thing approaching something I would indict the country for is what Kaepernick indicted it for.


P.S. If anyone thinks this tangent is muddying up the thread, ask, and I shall cease.

[P]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I can solve the concussion epidemic in the NFL really easily. Step one: Remove helmets and use Rugby rules for form tackling, done. Once NFL players were given ballistic armor to wear they were able to collide at tremendous speeds, take away the helmets and pads and now superficial injuries become more common but constant brain trauma will plummet.

This has always been my view. I used to play handball, and there are lots of people running into each other in that sport. Never heard of a head injury. In fact, human beings being what they are, there are lots of sports where people run into each other. American football is the only one with a brain damage epidemic. I think it is related to the concept of running in with your forehead first, trusting in the helmet. If you run at someone without a helmet, you try to avoid hitting their head as that hurts. People tilt their head back a little to take the hit with some other body part - chest to chest in handball.

[Waragainstsleep]

Its a real shame people didn't stand by Kaepernick at the time. Better late than never I guess and if it happens to be the beginning of the end of Trump, all the better.

I get that standing is the way its usually done, I'm not sure how kneeling is in any way disrespectful. Ask Daenerys Targaryen.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

If I kneel for the anthem I'm indicting the country.

My sense of camaraderie, regardless of how strong it is, is not a valid reason to indict the country.

If my ability to kneel were under threat by the NFL, who would be the only people able to threaten it in this context, I don't indict the country for it.

The only thing approaching something I would indict the country for is what Kaepernick indicted it for.


P.S. If anyone thinks this tangent is muddying up the thread, ask, and I shall cease.

The leader of the United States railing against expressions of free speech seems something worth indicting the country for, not that I agree that's what kneeling is.

[The Final Dakar]

Why did the Cowboys get booed for kneeling before the anthem?

[andi*pandi]

The owner had made a big deal out of firing anyone who did it... during the anthem. So him kneeling with them before... I dunno? compromise is bad?

[The Final Dakar]

[subego]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

The leader of the United States railing against expressions of free speech seems something worth indicting the country for, not that I agree that's what kneeling is.

What is kneeling then?

I indict Trump for his railing, not the entire country. He doesn't personify the country. He's not Columbia.

[Jawbone54]

If the crowd sees you kneeling before the anthem, how do they know you're going to stand up when it actually begins?

[Jawbone54]

We also have to also keep in mind that 72% of Americans thought Kaepernick kneeling was unpatriotic and 61% said they do not agree with what he was doing, though 64% conceded his constitutional right to protest in this way (how is that last number not higher, BTW?).

1. Most Americans think the players are within their rights to protest.
2. Most Americans think the players are wrong.
3. Many Americans are ready to boo the snot out of the players for kneeling.

This story is just going to get worse for the NFL, and God knows they didn't need the bad press right now.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

We also have to also keep in mind that 72% of Americans thought Kaepernick kneeling was unpatriotic and 61% said they do not agree with what he was doing, though 64% conceded his constitutional right to protest in this way (how is that last number not higher, BTW?).

1. Most Americans think the players are within their rights to protest.
2. Most Americans think the players are wrong.
3. Many Americans are ready to boo the snot out of the players for kneeling.

This story is just going to get worse for the NFL, and God knows they didn't need the bad press right now.

You think peoples opinion of how the protest is conducted matters?

[OAW]

I think Bernice King summed the issue up quite succinctly.





OAW

[The Final Dakar]

You left out the dude mansplaining to her what her father actually believed

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

You think peoples opinion of how the protest is conducted matters?

Nope.

But if 74% of the country disagrees with a protest, do they have the same first amendment right to voice their discontent, regardless of whether it’s justified?

FWIW, I wish Trump had never posted his tweets in the first place, as I found his statements beneath the office. Now that it’s out, it’s just become another divisive topic that pulls in everyone from athletes to actors to musicians to politicians.

Additionally, this protest doesn’t seem to have accomplished its goal.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

You left out the dude mansplaining to her what her father actually believed

Well it's quite common for those who hated MLK's guts in life to attempt to co-opt his message in death. So. Yeah.

OAW

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Nope.

But if 74% of the country disagrees with a protest, do they have the same first amendment right to voice their discontent, regardless of whether it’s justified?

FWIW, I wish Trump had never posted his tweets in the first place, as I found his statements beneath the office. Now that it’s out, it’s just become another divisive topic that pulls in everyone from athletes to actors to musicians to politicians.

Additionally, this protest doesn’t seem to have accomplished its goal.

They sure can express their discontent and I sure as hell can be skeptical about their reasons given the subject matter.

This protest hasn't accomplished its goal? Uh the entire point is to get people's attention. It's worked in spades thanks to that moron.