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starman · May 6, 2016, 03:26 PM

So there's this article that's been going around lately:

https://blog.vellumatlanta.com/2016/...c-no-seriously

I call BS on the whole thing. That might be a topic for the Mac OS X forum, but that's not the point here. The point is that people are blindly retweeting the story, believing it as-is, without question. Possibly without reading it. This is dangerous. Not for Apple, but for anyone. Accusations on the internet today are never questioned, and stones are thrown without thoughts of consequences.

If you read the article, there's a very serious gap in the story, but nobody says "huh, maybe the guy screwed up", but the story is all over the place. Multiple web sites have picked it up, and only iMore wrote an article rebutting it.

The point is, why is the mentality of the internet more skewed towards believing some no-name blogger, and not thinking twice before blindly retweeting and/or calling Apple "evil" and iTunes "ransomeware"? The same can go for politics, personal relationships, etc.

Sometimes I feel like getting off the 'net because it's so toxic, and most people on it are stupid.

OAW · May 6, 2016, 04:44 PM

Consider me very "skeptical" of this article at best. Part of the problem is that Apple has created a total mess with respect to the naming of interrelated apps and services. So it's not surprising that media outlets and people in general uses these terms interchangeably which leads to a lot of confusion:

iTunes - does this reference the app on the Mac/PC or the media store? If it's the app then why call it "Music" on iOS but "iTunes" on the Mac/PC?

Apple Music - does this reference the iOS app, the Apple Music features within the iTunes app, or the music service itself?

iTunes in the Cloud vs. iCloud Music Library vs. iTunes Match - Don't even get me started on this!

But let's try to distill this down to the core claims of this blogger ...

Originally Posted by James Pinkstone

What Amber explained was exactly what I’d feared: through the Apple Music subscription, which I had, Apple now deletes files from its users’ computers. When I signed up for Apple Music, iTunes evaluated my massive collection of Mp3s and WAV files, scanned Apple’s database for what it considered matches, then removed the original files from my internal hard drive. REMOVED them. Deleted. If Apple Music saw a file it didn’t recognize—which came up often, since I’m a freelance composer and have many music files that I created myself—it would then download it to Apple’s database, delete it from my hard drive, and serve it back to me when I wanted to listen, just like it would with my other music files it had deleted.

Mr. Pinkstone is claiming that he subscribed to Apple Music and that 122 GB of his music came up missing on his laptop (which means he was using the iTunes app) ... simply as a result of the way the "matching" process. So let's first distill out all the NOISE that all too often ensues in the comments sections from people complaining about different issues. We aren't talking about mixed up cover art or metadata. Those are music LIBRARY issues (which are known to happen). He's claiming that his music FILES came up missing. So let's roll with that. Now I've never seen this happen and I use iTunes Match and Apple Music. If it was a widespread issue or intentional software design as he claims people would be howling all over the internet for the last year. First of all I've never seen iTunes under any circumstances magically delete a music file. When you delete a track in iTunes it will remove it from the LIBRARY and either leave the FILE in place or optionally move it to the trash. And you would have to blindly click through a bunch of warning dialogs and sit there while it churned through 122 GB of files emptying out of the trash for this to happen. The gentleman is also very sparse with details on how he went about this. When he "signed up for Apple Music" he had a local music library on his laptop in iTunes. But was he using iCloud Music Library already set up on a different device with a different library? Did he choose to REPLACE or MERGE the local music library? Because unless he's the victim of some really obscure bug that's the only way I can see that amount of data being deleted simply by subscribing to Apple Music.

I have a 62 GB music library going back decades. I've been using iTunes Match since it came out and it never deleted any of my files. Eventually I backed up my music files to an external HD and deleted a lot of older music from the SSD on my laptop to free up space. Basically anything older than 2010. It's still in music library so I just stream it. Everything since 2010 is still on my laptop. Except for when I signed up for Apple Music in June 2015. And with that everything is streaming with the few exceptions of albums that I've downloaded for offline listening. 6 years of music and none of the files came up missing simply by subscribing to Apple Music. Perhaps Mr. Pinkstone deleted files from a different device and pressed this option without reading the warning to see what it actually does?

I don't know. But it seems to me that this is way more likely to be user error than the way the software is actually designed to work as he claimed.

OAW

starman · May 6, 2016, 05:59 PM

And these are the same conclusions I came to as well.

Apart from that, the point is, people aren't thinking about the blogger's claims, but blindly retweet the article, saying "iTunes is ransomware - Apple exporting people to get their music back", or "artists should be afraid of iTunes, it'll delete your compositions". This is what I mean, people love spreading FUD rather than taking a second and thinking that if it were true, it would be happening to millions of people.

OAW · May 6, 2016, 06:34 PM

Exactly! Now one thing I think should be changed about how the delete function works is the DEFAULT should be Remove Download instead of Delete Song. It's a good software design principle to make the default option be the least destructive course of action. 25+ years in the software development game has made it abundantly clear that users will blow past warning dialogs and take the default without even thinking quite often.

OAW

Spheric Harlot · May 7, 2016, 01:43 AM

The default should be "Cancel", as it's the only safe option.

FWIW, iTunes DID used to have weird database issues that deleted HUNDREDS of songs from my database without a trace ten, fifteen years ago. It removed one specific album - I keep forgetting the name, but it was electronica with a sea lion on the cover - from a friend's library at least three times (she ripped it, it disappeared, she ripped it again, it disappeared again, etc. - this was in 2005 or 2006), and several albums that had been painstakingly ripped from vinyl from another friend's. I lost entire discographies.

Haven't had this problem in a while, though.

OAW · May 7, 2016, 11:06 AM

I've experienced music library corruption issues where it seemed like tracks were missing within the iTunes app. But the music files were still in the iTunes folder on the HD. There's also a setting which I'm drawing a blank on the exact wording but when you turn it on it basically keeps the structure of the music files organized automatically based upon how you tag tracks in the iTunes app. And that feature caused some music files to be moved to some unexpected places. So they appeared to be "missing" but they really weren't. But I've just never experienced iTunes just arbitrarily deleting my music files without me initiating the action.

OAW

Mike Wuerthele · May 7, 2016, 01:19 PM

While there are some issues with Apple's handling of the interface associated with Apple Music, as has already been spelled out, the issue here is PEBCAK. Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard.

subego · May 7, 2016, 01:49 PM

Wasn't there some snafu with people who had both iTunes Match and Apple Music got their libraries ****ed?

This was back at launch, though.

Some deal where you can download and permanently keep music via iTunes Match, but can't with Apple Music. iTunes got confused which was which, and people were having their matched libraries converted to subscription libraries, which then disappeared after the trial was up.

Spheric Harlot · May 7, 2016, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by OAW

I've experienced music library corruption issues where it seemed like tracks were missing within the iTunes app. But the music files were still in the iTunes folder on the HD. There's also a setting which I'm drawing a blank on the exact wording but when you turn it on it basically keeps the structure of the music files organized automatically based upon how you tag tracks in the iTunes app. And that feature caused some music files to be moved to some unexpected places. So they appeared to be "missing" but they really weren't. But I've just never experienced iTunes just arbitrarily deleting my music files without me initiating the action.

OAW

They weren't just deleted from the Library. They were GONE. Yes, it sounds absurd. Yes, it's true.

OAW · May 7, 2016, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot

They weren't just deleted from the Library. They were GONE. Yes, it sounds absurd. Yes, it's true.

Wow! For music files to be just gone like that and not even end up in the trash first has to be some kind of weird bug.

OAW

starman · May 7, 2016, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Wasn't there some snafu with people who had both iTunes Match and Apple Music got their libraries ****ed?

This was back at launch, though.

Some deal where you can download and permanently keep music via iTunes Match, but can't with Apple Music. iTunes got confused which was which, and people were having their matched libraries converted to subscription libraries, which then disappeared after the trial was up.

12.something, yeah, but that was fixed very fast.

Laminar · May 9, 2016, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by subego

Wasn't there some snafu with people who had both iTunes Match and Apple Music got their libraries ****ed?

This was back at launch, though.

It ****ed with my meta-data which screwed up all of my smart playlists, and promptly loaded my iPhone with all of my favorite music from 2006.

I've read several reports of iTunes replacing songs with newer versions - for example, replacing a self-recorded live version with the one that was on that movie soundtrack recently.

OAW · May 9, 2016, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Laminar

It ****ed with my meta-data which screwed up all of my smart playlists, and promptly loaded my iPhone with all of my favorite music from 2006.

This is the sort of music library issue that we've seen many reports about.

Originally Posted by Laminar

I've read several reports of iTunes replacing songs with newer versions - for example, replacing a self-recorded live version with the one that was on that movie soundtrack recently.

Now this is either a music library issue or a music file issue depending upon how it manifested. Say one is using iTunes on a Mac/PC and the matching process gets screwed up and the soundtrack version gets added to the music library by mistake. If it was a library only issue then playing that track on the Mac/PC should play the right song even if the metadata is screwed. However, playing that same track on an iOS device would show the wrong metadata AND play the wrong song because it's streaming based upon what the library is now incorrectly saying. OTOH if iTunes on the Mac/PC replaced the music file on its own simply as a result of the matching process then that's a different ball of wax! A lot of times when you read these reports people don't always make it very clear which device they are experiencing the issue on and/or if that device was used during the initial match process.

OAW

ort888 · May 9, 2016, 05:18 PM

I would love for some journalist to create an Apple horror story like this that was 100% fictional and see how far it can spread before eventually revealing that the entire thing is just made-up to get a response. It would be an interesting experiment.

reader50 · May 9, 2016, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

I would love for some journalist to create an Apple horror story like this that was 100% fictional and see how far it can spread before eventually revealing that the entire thing is just made-up to get a response. It would be an interesting experiment.

TheOnion exposes CIA is behind Facebook (video report). It saves the agency a ton of money when people just volunteer their info.

I'm not sure how far the story spread. It's probably entirely fictional, but who knows. Maybe the agencies underwrote some of FB's early financing. It wouldn't surprise me if they had.

starman · May 9, 2016, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

I would love for some journalist to create an Apple horror story like this that was 100% fictional and see how far it can spread before eventually revealing that the entire thing is just made-up to get a response. It would be an interesting experiment.

To this day, people still think Apple doesn't use standard hard drives, memory, keyboards, and mice. I wouldn't doubt that the article would stand for decades.

reader50 · May 9, 2016, 08:19 PM

Apple uses standard memory and mice. The keyboards need a Mac layout.

However, hard drives in iMacs routinely use custom firmware for temperature reporting. If you substitute a standard HD, the fan ramps up. You have to get the OWC kit to do a graceful HD upgrade.

starman · May 9, 2016, 08:42 PM

Originally Posted by reader50

Apple uses standard memory and mice. The keyboards need a Mac layout.

However, hard drives in iMacs routinely use custom firmware for temperature reporting. If you substitute a standard HD, the fan ramps up. You have to get the OWC kit to do a graceful HD upgrade.

I used standard hard drives for years. Never had a problem.

Windows keyboards use the Win key for command.

Waragainstsleep · May 12, 2016, 07:30 AM

Apple often used their own disk firmwares but until a few years ago it didn't really make any difference with the possible exception of RAID drives. Standard ones were always interchangeable with retail disks until they started messing around with the thermal sensors.

Cap'n Tightpants · May 12, 2016, 12:44 PM

We still use standard HDs and SSDs, no issues.

Hawkeye_a · May 12, 2016, 01:01 PM

This kind of speculation and reporting reminds me of the "-gate" phenomenon when Apple released new iPhones, compounded with Mike Daisey type sensationalism.

Having said that, quite frankly, i'm getting sick of iTunes on my Mac and the Music app on my iPhone 6S. The user interface in general is getting too complicated and frustrating. IMHO

starman · May 12, 2016, 01:08 PM

LOL how is the UI complicated?

andi*pandi · May 12, 2016, 01:14 PM

The UI doesn't match up consistently.

starman · May 12, 2016, 01:16 PM

Yeah, not buying that. I use it every day and I never found it "confusing".

Cap'n Tightpants · May 12, 2016, 02:11 PM

It's a jumbled mess of an app compared to what it was, I dislike using it.

Laminar · May 12, 2016, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Yeah, not buying that. I use it every day and I never found it "confusing".

Stockholm Syndrome.

ort888 · May 12, 2016, 02:54 PM

An iTunes bug, not Apple Music, may be to blame for disappearing music libraries | iMore

Shockingly, it looks like this was a bug.

starman · May 12, 2016, 04:23 PM

And yet nobody can give any concrete reasons why they don't like it.

Chongo · 09:16 AM

After signing up for Apple Music, I can no longer load music onto my wife's 5S. When I connect it to our iMac and iTunes opens it, says she can download it from iTunes in the cloud, except her phone doesn't show in the iTunes in the cloud device list. None of the music she has on her 5S show on iTunes on our iMac or my 6S plus or iPad Air. One thing that is irritating is that the cover art is screwed up on some albums.

OAW · May 12, 2016, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

An iTunes bug, not Apple Music, may be to blame for disappearing music libraries | iMore

Shockingly, it looks like this was a bug.

Yep. What I said from the beginning. This guy's story had all the signs of a really obscure bug.

OAW

starman · May 12, 2016, 05:12 PM

Except...the person claimed their whole library was wiped out.

"As a result, it appeared to both users as if their library had been automatically replaced by Apple Music-sourced files."

This is important. Appearing like the library was wiped out and ACTUALLY wiping the library are two different things. A db error shouldn't remove the files, just modify the .itl file.

The problem is, 122GB were missing, so did iTunes remove the files or not? There's no clear answer.

OAW · May 12, 2016, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Except...the person claimed their whole library was wiped out.

"As a result, it appeared to both users as if their library had been automatically replaced by Apple Music-sourced files."

This is important. Appearing like the library was wiped out and ACTUALLY wiping the library are two different things. A db error shouldn't remove the files, just modify the .itl file.

The problem is, 122GB were missing, so did iTunes remove the files or not? There's no clear answer.

Indeed. That's the distinction many have been making all along. Unfortunately, Mr. Pinkerton has been less than forthcoming when it comes to responding to such follow-up questions.

OAW

Cap'n Tightpants · May 13, 2016, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by starman

And yet nobody can give any concrete reasons why they don't like it.

Looks like crap, controls are jumbled, is much less responsive than it was in its prime. Want more?

subego · May 13, 2016, 10:02 AM

It would be easier to list what's good about it:

The store
Magnetosphere 2

That's it.

starman · May 13, 2016, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants

Looks like crap, controls are jumbled, is much less responsive than it was in its prime. Want more?

Are you on Windows or Mac? What does "controls are jumbled" even mean? Do they overlap? lol. iTunes is perfectly responsive for me (Mac).

Hawkeye_a · May 14, 2016, 09:58 PM

Well... the bug is confirmed...

Apple Confirms Music Deletion Glitch, Says Fix Incoming in Future iTunes Update - Mac Rumors

OAW · May 14, 2016, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Well... the bug is confirmed...

Apple Confirms Music Deletion Glitch, Says Fix Incoming in Future iTunes Update - Mac Rumors

Actually what's been "confirmed" are the reports of the issue. Apple has thus far been unable to reproduce it so it remains to be seen if there is an actual bug or not.

OAW

starman · May 15, 2016, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Well... the bug is confirmed...

Apple Confirms Music Deletion Glitch, Says Fix Incoming in Future iTunes Update - Mac Rumors

No, it isn't. Re-read the article.

Chongo · May 15, 2016, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Chongo

After signing up for Apple Music, I can no longer load music onto my wife's 5S. When I connect it to our iMac and iTunes opens it, says she can download it from iTunes in the cloud, except her phone doesn't show in the iTunes in the cloud device list. None of the music she has on her 5S show on iTunes on our iMac or my 6S plus or iPad Air. One thing that is irritating is that the cover art is screwed up on some albums.

OK. I called Apple Music support and was told ITunes is lying to me. I was told if I want to load music that is not available through Apple Music on to the Mrs 5S I have set her up a separate account on our iMac and log into iTunes with her Apple ID.

Question: Will the new account use the same iTunes library or will it duplicate it and use more disk space?

Cap'n Tightpants · May 15, 2016, 01:05 PM

It'll, probably, do a search and use the old one. Probably.

Laminar · May 16, 2016, 02:23 PM

The music library is in the individual user's home folder by default, which isn't visible to any other user. One user account will not be able to see another user's music library unless you move it to a shared location.

ort888 · May 16, 2016, 02:28 PM

I wonder how much traction this "story" would have gotten if it was titled... "An obscure iTunes bug erased my music library, but I had a backup" instead of "APPLE STOLE MY MUSIC. NO, SERIOUSLY."

Chongo · May 16, 2016, 02:42 PM

I'm not going to setup a separate user up for the few cd's that are not (yet) on iTunes/Music.

Hawkeye_a · May 16, 2016, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

I wonder how much traction this "story" would have gotten if it was titled... "An obscure iTunes bug erased my music library, but I had a backup" instead of "APPLE STOLE MY MUSIC. NO, SERIOUSLY."

That seems to be the state of "journalism" (or rather "blogism") today. It's very annoying especially in the technology realm. It seems like the main, if not only, benchmark being considered by the authors/publishers is number of clicks.

Chongo · May 16, 2016, 03:06 PM

A "potential bug fix release for iTunes"

http://forums.macnn.com/112/mac-news...os-x-ios-tvos/

Having missed its usual beta cycle last week, Apple on Monday updated all of its OS platforms alongside a potential bug-fix release of iTunes, which also incorporates some design tweaks to the venerable media-management program. Updated today is OS X (to version 10.11.5), iOS (to 9.3.2), tvOS (9.2.1), watchOS (2.2.1), and iTunes for OS X has been bumped to v 12.4, which addresses a potential risk of accidental music deletion for a small number of users.

Cap'n Tightpants · May 16, 2016, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

I wonder how much traction this "story" would have gotten if it was titled... "An obscure iTunes bug erased my music library, but I had a backup" instead of "APPLE STOLE MY MUSIC. NO, SERIOUSLY."

Made them fix the problem in record time, though. Supposedly.

starman · May 16, 2016, 06:22 PM

No, they put out a fix which *might* fix the problem, if there even is one to begin with. Remember, Apple said they can't reproduce it.

Cap'n Tightpants · May 16, 2016, 07:30 PM

That's what I just said.

starman · May 16, 2016, 08:24 PM

No, you said there was a problem. I'm saying Apple never said there was, there MIGHT be one. Big difference.

OAW · May 16, 2016, 11:59 PM

Actually in this instance CTP actually said what he claimed he did. Yeah I know he wrote an entire sentence that said one thing. Followed by a single word that said something else. And then he hangs his hat on the latter. As if people are supposed to just look past everything he said before. Believe me I get it. That's the game he likes to play. But viewed in the context of "sarcasm" then even I have to keep it 100 and acknowledge his point in this instance. Just saying ...

OAW