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supernature · Jun 13, 2002, 07:52 PM

FYI... prices Dell vs. Apple

$1698 Dell - 1.8Ghz P4, 256MB RAM, 80gigHD, Firewire, USB, Serial, Parallel, Floppy, 15" Dell LCD, integrated audio, speakers, 1 yr warranty, XP Home, USB Optical Mouse & Keyboard, CD-RW, modem, 10/100 ethernet.

$2807 Apple - 933Mhz G4, 256MB RAM, 80gigHD, Firewire, USB, 15" Apple LCD, integrated audio, speakers, 1 yr warranty, OS X, USB Optical Mouse and Keyboard, CD-RW, 10/100/1000 ethernet, modem.

$3137 Dell - 2.53Ghz P4, 512MB RAM, 80gigHD, Firewire, USB, Serial, Parallel, XP Home, USB Optical Mouse & Keyboard, DVD-RW/CD-RW drive, modem, 10/100 ethernet, integrated audio, speakers w/sub.

$4157 Apple - DualGhz G4, 512MB RAM, 80gig HD, Firewire, USB, OS X, USB Optical Mouse & Keyboard, SuperDrive, modem, gigabit ethernet, integrated audio, speakers with sub.

Note: Dell is left with 2 PCI slots unused, while Apple has 4 PCI slots available to use. The Dell runs on a faster system bus.

jparisi · Jun 13, 2002, 08:05 PM

I saw a dell ad in some magazine today...

1.7 ghz pII
256 DDR
17" Monitor
Speakers and subwoofer
Combo drive
1 year on site

$799.99

goatnet · Jun 13, 2002, 08:13 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by supernature:
FYI... prices Dell vs. Apple

$1698 Dell - 1.8Ghz P4, 256MB RAM, 80gigHD, Firewire, USB, Serial, Parallel, Floppy, 15" Dell LCD, integrated audio, speakers, 1 yr warranty, XP Home, USB Optical Mouse & Keyboard, CD-RW, modem, 10/100 ethernet.

$2807 Apple - 933Mhz G4, 256MB RAM, 80gigHD, Firewire, USB, 15" Apple LCD, integrated audio, speakers, 1 yr warranty, OS X, USB Optical Mouse and Keyboard, CD-RW, 10/100/1000 ethernet, modem.

$3137 Dell - 2.53Ghz P4, 512MB RAM, 80gigHD, Firewire, USB, Serial, Parallel, XP Home, USB Optical Mouse & Keyboard, DVD-RW/CD-RW drive, modem, 10/100 ethernet, integrated audio, speakers w/sub.

$4157 Apple - DualGhz G4, 512MB RAM, 80gig HD, Firewire, USB, OS X, USB Optical Mouse & Keyboard, SuperDrive, modem, gigabit ethernet, integrated audio, speakers with sub.

Note: Dell is left with 2 PCI slots unused, while Apple has 4 PCI slots available to use. The Dell runs on a faster system bus.<hr /></blockquote>Unfortunately, my personal time is worth more than $6.96 an hour, so the additional time I don't spend:

Installing drivers
Troubleshooting DLL conflicts
Disregarding annoying MSN product advertisements
Patching for the newest exploit
Patching for the newest virus

...is worth the extra money I invested into my Mac.

Windows is only cheaper if your time is worthless.

[ 06-13-2002, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: goatnet ]

Peder Rice · Jun 13, 2002, 08:25 PM

Yeah, did you read the report that Macs are up to 36% cheaper than PC's in maintenance? That's up to $300 according to the article.

Scotttheking · Jun 13, 2002, 08:31 PM

This is going to the lounge, since it's just another mac vs pc thread.

BTW, dells run really slow for some reason, as in slower then the same parts used in a custom system.

ReggieX · Jun 13, 2002, 09:01 PM

Why would anyone willingly buy a Dell?

talisker · Jun 13, 2002, 09:08 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ReggieX:
Why would anyone willingly buy a Dell?<hr /></blockquote>Because they want to buy a computer and go for Dell as it is one of the big names in PCs, which 95% of computer users use. For the features they seem to be priced reasonably. Clearly, you or I wouldnt because we prefer to use Macs, but as most people have never even tried using a Mac it's not an issue for them.

Apple Pro Underwear · Jun 13, 2002, 09:16 PM

ever try green tea ice-cream?

looks good in that tempting pastel green, it costs a little bit more than the other flavours, all your friends bought vanilla, you want it...but you end up getting vanilla.

ReggieX · Jun 13, 2002, 10:09 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
ever try green tea ice-cream?<hr /></blockquote>Yes, it's completely disgusting.

driven · Jun 14, 2002, 01:23 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by talisker:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ReggieX:
Why would anyone willingly buy a Dell?<hr /></blockquote>Because they want to buy a computer and go for Dell as it is one of the big names in PCs, which 95% of computer users use. For the features they seem to be priced reasonably. Clearly, you or I wouldnt because we prefer to use Macs, but as most people have never even tried using a Mac it's not an issue for them.<hr /></blockquote>I just read an article today that said: On a global scale 80% of the personal computer market belongs to no-name "white box" PCs. The market share of ALL other name-brand PC vendors COMBINED would not come close to the market share of the white-boxes.

MikeM32 · Jun 14, 2002, 01:29 AM

In the words of the simpsons comic book store guy "Gayest Post Ever"

Mike

flatcatch · Jun 14, 2002, 02:19 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by goatnet:
Unfortunately, my personal time is worth more than $6.96 an hour, so the additional time I don't spend:

Installing drivers
Troubleshooting DLL conflicts
Disregarding annoying MSN product advertisements
Patching for the newest exploit
Patching for the newest virus

...is worth the extra money I invested into my Mac.

Windows is only cheaper if your time is worthless.[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>*yawn* Let's be a bit realistic here. This is the kind of crap Windows fanatics see from Mac fanatics which gives them more reason to write off Macs. Maybe for older Windows OSes, but I run Windows 2000 on my VAIO daily for development of motion control drivers and software, strange system level hacks, and general application development - AND instal beta software regularly. Throwing all of that at it, I have had to track down one DLL conflict in the past 4 years (part of that time on NT4), have never seen MSN product ads (maybe that is because my hosts file blocks every ad site known to man). Also, at least Microsoft provides componentized updates (bug fixes/security updates) in a wildly more frequent schedule than Apple (and not entirely security patches). If Software Update came up with that many updates Mac users would be giddy. Does installing those updates take time? Uhh... yeah, clicking that little 'update' icon in the start menu eats up 15 seconds or so (of course, I have a fat pipe so downloading updates in quick and it does it all in the background anyhow - I would agree that a modem user would cringe at the frequent updates).

So, does this mean I enjoy Windows? Not one tiny bit. It makes me sick. That is why I have an iBook sitting on my desk as well, because using OS X keep me sane. I love OS X. I love using 'grep' whenever I damn well feel like it. Etc, etc.

Jesus... I can't believe I posted in a Mac v. Windows thread. This is the "Gayest Post Ever".

Teronzhul · Jun 14, 2002, 06:48 PM

You know quite honestly in the current price/performance debacle apple seems to be in, I am seriously considering buying a pc. For kicks I went to the dell website and checked what it would cost me for a good PC. I have no need to burn dvds right now, and built this: 2.53ghz, 512megs, 40gig, 16x DVD, 24/10/40 CDRW, nvidia geforce 4 ti 4600, 10/100, and a 19" FD trinitron monitor for $2208 with a $150 mail in rebate so grand total is $2058. I'm pretty sure that with the exception of the HD i picked, this system could walk all over the $4000 mac at the apple store. I just don't think I can justify spending $2000 more for an underperforming system, even with mac os x right now, and i need a new computer. I'm gonna have to think about this, but it might be time for me to "switch"

voodoo · Jun 14, 2002, 07:14 PM

Go for it! I say.

There is no reason to invest in an underpowered system when something better is available. Cheaper to boot! I'll tell ya, there ain't no excuse to buy a Mac these days, nosiree. Back in the old days when people bought Macs, they were much more powerful compared to the PeeCees. Yeah, that 040 kick that crap 486 as$, right? Well maybe not, the PeeCees did have more powerfulo graphic cards enalbling them to outperform the Macs even then. For much less money. Are you reading this? Just checking. The macs have always been underperforming in comparison (especially if price is taken into the eqation). The fact is it is not really logical to buy a Mac at first glance. More expensive than Peecees, less powered and seemingly overdesigned. Who needs a good looking computer to work on? It's a tool (no pun) nothing else, forchrissake! Why did you buy a Mac (I presume you own one, since you are 'switching') in the first place. The price/performance has been horrible compared to the PeeCee the last decade! Even ten years ago it wasn't that good. So you have to ask yourself, 'why did I buy a Mac in the first place?'. Not a very logical decision, hmmmm? Or, am I leaving something out? It is the look and feel. The brushed and intelligent inteface. It is the comfort and safety offered by immense stability and logic. The Macs play on our vanity too. They look better than your everyday PeeCee, they attract the attention of the opposite sex (really they do! if the opposite sex happens to be slightly nerdy, but hey). They last, long. One is hardly surprised to find a working Mac Plus today, a machine made in 1986. Before most of the members of this forum were born <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> It is a matter of taste, not power, whether you decide to buy a Mac or a PeeCee. Are you tired of reading this? Well, too bad. Contnue reading... Obviously the speed race was lost sometime in the last century and the MHz gap became more like a MHz canyon. Apple decides to go 100% for look, feel and quality - seeing that the war between the platforms is no more. Steve Jobs said it in so many words at the infamous Macworld in 1997, just before he told the world about the unholy alliance between Apple and Microsoft. He made it a matter of taste. The high end Macs are well capable of running OS X at high speeds (don't take my word for it, go to your nearest Apple dealer and try it out for yourself). If you don't fall in love then you can be sure that buying a PeeCee is the right decision for you.

Buckaroo · Jun 14, 2002, 07:16 PM

The most important issue is:

Dell don't run OSX.

When Dell makes a PC that runs OS X, then we can compare.

You see the thing about these hardware comparisons, is that they don't take into consideration that Windows SUCKS.

I don't mean SUCKS a little. I mean I would rather throw Windows in the trash it sucks so bad.

AlbertWu · Jun 14, 2002, 07:54 PM

cause DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE!!! YOU'RE GETTIN A DELL!

goatnet · Jun 14, 2002, 08:12 PM

>> *yawn* Let's be a bit realistic here

*snip*

I dunno where "fanatic" comes from all this but...

have never seen MSN product ads.

You mean Internet Explorer has never gone to Microsoft's site all by itself? That's odd, mine does nearly monthly, usually to check for IE updates. While it looks for an update, IE does the infamous pop-under ad, asking me to sign up for Hotmail or MSN, or other ultra cool stuff that I shouldn't be subjected to.

Also, at least Microsoft provides componentized updates (bug fixes/security updates) in a wildly more frequent schedule than Apple (and not entirely security patches).

lol, what do you expect when you get 389 viruses / exploits a month? People are beginning to write exploits for Microsoft Bob because of sheer boredom.

If Software Update came up with that many updates Mac users would be giddy.

No, I'd personally be p!ssed, obviously I'd be concerned about quality asurrance if I had to update that many times. Would you have piece of mind if your CAR was recalled 16 times while you owned it for "minor updates or fixes?"

Does installing those updates take time?

Yes, it does. I could be doing other things rather then sitting behind my computer waiting for it to finish downloading and rebooting.

So, does this mean I enjoy Windows? Not one tiny bit. It makes me sick. That is why I have an iBook sitting on my desk as well, because using OS X keep me sane. I love OS X. I love using 'grep' whenever I damn well feel like it. Etc, etc.

There's nothing wrong with voicing an opinion. There are things I hate about OS X. There are things I hate about Windows. I chose to focus on what I hated about Windows. You should see me go off on Linux! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Teronzhul · Jun 14, 2002, 08:38 PM

well voodoo, thanks for your completely serious reply.

I have 2 macs currently. An ancient power computing powercenter 120, and an aging Powerbook G3 Lombard. I had owned a commodore 64, tandy 1000, and a radioshack pos 486 with windows 3.1 prior to purchasing my macs.

I used an LCIII and LC575 at school and realized at that time that macs were far superior to win 3.1. Mac OS 7.1 and 7.5 were a joy to use in comparison to win 3.1 and win 95, but I have had quite a bit of experience with both operating systems.

I have been the sole mac user and mac evangelist among my friends for some time, but recently its been getting harder and harder to prove to them the superiority.

In terms of price/performance apple has always been a little behind, yes, but when i purchased my powercenter, and my lombard, at least they could keep up with pcs. A 2.53 PIV makes even dual G4's look like they should be in a calculator.

Also, I am a student, and price is a definite issue for me. Could I survive with an imac? Yes, its still in my price range and runs osx, but lets see 800 mhz vs 2.53ghz? Do i want to buy a computer that is already outdated? It wouldn't save me any money to buy an imac, as I would be looking for another computer in half the time.

Is windows a pile of crap? Yes, but its not as bad as many of you make out. Seriously, I use them both on a daily basis and I sometimes wonder how many of you bash it without recent experience with 2000 and xp.

I wish that $2000 was worth my personal preference of an operating system, if it is to you, more power to you, I'd love to be looking for a new mac right now. I just don't think that preference is worth it to me right now. Perhaps in the future it will be.

I'll still be able to run OS X on my Lombard, although slowly.

And I'm not sure about what kind of PC i'll be getting, I would shy away from dell simply because the "DUDE" guy annoys the **** out of me. I was using dell because thats what the thread started comparing with.

Please respond to this with as much worthless sarcasm as possible, I thoroughly enjoyed it before.

Teronzhul · Jun 14, 2002, 08:42 PM

Oh, and let me say, I knew I was lighting a fire under my butt by posting in this thread in the first place. Kinda hoping you guys would convince me not to go to the dark side, but I might be kinda hopeless at this point.

supernature · Jun 14, 2002, 09:00 PM

This wasn't exactly meant to be a PC/Mac debate. I was just pointing out that Apple's prices are still a bit too high. But that's what makes Apple stay in black. But if Apple is going to go for those other 95% of the population, I think they have to do some major marketing campaign about pricing. Lower the prices. I've run into many people who would buy a Mac if they had the money to spend on it. But they end up buying a PC.

driven · Jun 14, 2002, 09:33 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by flatcatch:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by goatnet:
Unfortunately, my personal time is worth more than $6.96 an hour, so the additional time I don't spend:

Installing drivers
Troubleshooting DLL conflicts
Disregarding annoying MSN product advertisements
Patching for the newest exploit
Patching for the newest virus

...is worth the extra money I invested into my Mac.

Windows is only cheaper if your time is worthless.<hr /></blockquote>*yawn* Let's be a bit realistic here. This is the kind of crap Windows fanatics see from Mac fanatics which gives them more reason to write off Macs. Maybe for older Windows OSes, but I run Windows 2000 on my VAIO daily for development of motion control drivers and software, strange system level hacks, and general application development - AND instal beta software regularly. Throwing all of that at it, I have had to track down one DLL conflict in the past 4 years (part of that time on NT4), have never seen MSN product ads (maybe that is because my hosts file blocks every ad site known to man). Also, at least Microsoft provides componentized updates (bug fixes/security updates) in a wildly more frequent schedule than Apple (and not entirely security patches). If Software Update came up with that many updates Mac users would be giddy. Does installing those updates take time? Uhh... yeah, clicking that little 'update' icon in the start menu eats up 15 seconds or so (of course, I have a fat pipe so downloading updates in quick and it does it all in the background anyhow - I would agree that a modem user would cringe at the frequent updates).

So, does this mean I enjoy Windows? Not one tiny bit. It makes me sick. That is why I have an iBook sitting on my desk as well, because using OS X keep me sane. I love OS X. I love using 'grep' whenever I damn well feel like it. Etc, etc.

Jesus... I can't believe I posted in a Mac v. Windows thread. This is the "Gayest Post Ever".

[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>On the same note, I just reinstalled Win2k on a laptop of mine. The "Windows Update" you mentioned above had a TON of software updates for it, and a ton of security patches. This is good.

The bad part is that half of them had to be installed "exclusively". This means that you can download that ONE and only that ONE patch/app and then you have to REBOOT.

I did some stats:

45 minutes (Install Win2k from CD)
10 minutes (Install HP specific drivers from HP CD)
90 minutes (Software update: Download/Install/Reboot ... Download/Install/Reboot ... over and over and ... well you get the idea.)

I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but that app really needs to get away from all the required reboots. It should not take me longer to apply the updates than it does to install the OS.

goatnet · Jun 14, 2002, 10:04 PM

Nod, the single install, single reboot always drive me up a ****ing wall, are they really necessary?

I can understand for system level updates, but for programs?