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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien: 2009 - 2010?

Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien: 2009 - 2010? (Page 2)
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SpaceMonkey
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Jan 14, 2010, 05:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
Conan's ratings have to be up, right? Anyway, I'm enjoying his farewell tour. Shades of Carson when he knew NBC couldn't touch him either.
Letterman has really been ripping on NBC, too.

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Jawbone54
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Jan 14, 2010, 07:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Letterman has really been ripping on NBC, too.
It felt a bit mean-spirited, but Letterman's impression of Leno working on his cars and talking to his wife was hilarious.
     
Brien  (op)
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Jan 14, 2010, 11:03 PM
 
I think Letterman is being "mean-spirited" because he's already been through this whole debacle.
     
SpaceMonkey
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Jan 14, 2010, 11:07 PM
 
Exactly. It's absolutely mean-spirited, and it's delicious.

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Arty50
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Jan 15, 2010, 01:34 AM
 
Did anyone see Jimmy Kimmel a couple of nights ago? Classic...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMgPPJZfsCM

Chevy Chase came out with a Conan wig and the interview was awesome:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhewaobDQCU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oItWgSp_ejY
( Last edited by Arty50; Jan 15, 2010 at 01:42 AM. )
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Jan 15, 2010, 02:23 AM
 
Leno bombed at 10 pm. That is not COCO's fault. COCO at 11:35 was fresh and way more hilarious then Leno. Leno's bits where HORRIBLE. All his new comedians doing bits where DRY. That 10 at 10 segment was the worst TV I have seen in long time. Leno asking 10 redundant questions to marginal guests (Chris Collinsworth? Kardashians? ) while trying to get a laugh.... WITH A SATELLITE DELAY?????????? = EPIC FAIL .. and that is all on Leno.

Fergie is painful to watch at times. His constant brashness makes him look like a BUSH supporter.

NBC will pay dearly when COCO leaves... as it is apparent by now that Zucker is completely clued out.
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Jan 15, 2010, 04:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Conan's ratings have to be up, right?
I'm sure it's up. I know I'm watching both of them more now with all this happening.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Anyway, I'm enjoying his farewell tour. Shades of Carson when he knew NBC couldn't touch him either.
I'm actually liking both of their farewell tour. It's like a tag team of insults against NBC starting with Leno and then later on with Conan. Both of them are kind of acting like they are untouchable.
     
besson3c
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Jan 15, 2010, 04:35 AM
 
Jimmy Kimmel giving Leno a hard time about all of this, to put it mildly:

Kimmel: Leno Show Appearance (VIDEO)
     
besson3c
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Jan 15, 2010, 04:55 AM
 
I don't watch Leno, so I'm wondering if he has explained on his show why he isn't taking a principled stand like Conan is, and refusing to bump Conan?
     
Chuckit
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Jan 15, 2010, 08:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I don't watch Leno, so I'm wondering if he has explained on his show why he isn't taking a principled stand like Conan is, and refusing to bump Conan?
The official NBC stance is basically that Conan was not doing anywhere near as well as Leno did on The Tonight Show, so it should be Leno's. Leno hasn't done any serious, heartfelt explanation, but the jokes he's made about it seem to follow the company line.
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Jan 15, 2010, 10:28 AM
 
Dick Ebersol, chairman of NBC Universal Sports, responds to Leno/O'Brien criticism

Some choice quotes:

“What this is really all about is an astounding failure by Conan.” Mr. Ebersol is a veteran at the network, with a longstanding relationship with NBC Universal’s embattled chief executive, Jeff Zucker. Mr. Ebersol also has a deep link to the network’s late-night history, having been a creator of “Saturday Night Live,” and he has been frequently consulted on changes in NBC’s late-night lineup.
Mr. Ebersol chided Mr. O’Brien for declining to take advice about how to adjust his show to the 11:35 p.m. slot from the style he had used on NBC’s 12:35 a.m. “Late Night” show for 16 years.

He said he had met personally with the host three weeks before he stepped behind the “Tonight” desk for the first time to urge him to take steps to expand the appeal he had built up in his “Late Night” years, saying that NBC hosts beginning with Johnny Carson had recognized the importance of making the show appealing first and foremost to cities in the central time zone like Chicago and Des Moines.

Mr. O’Brien’s camp, while steering clear of commenting on Mr. Ebersol’s criticism, confirmed the executive had met with the star and discussed potential changes in the show.

They have previously defended the performance of the show, saying seven months was not a fair shot for Mr. O’Brien to hone his comedic voice at the earlier hour especially in the face of reduced audiences for Mr. Leno’s 10 p.m. show and the late local newscasts that followed it.

Mr. Ebersol labeled that a “specious argument,” saying that for much of the last five years, Mr. Leno had much lower lead-in audiences than Mr. Letterman got at CBS and yet he always won in the ratings.

“I like Conan enormously personally,” Mr. Ebersol said. “He was just stubborn about not being willing to broaden the appeal of his show.”
Mr. Ebersol said Mr. Leno had not pushed for any of the changes, not the original decision to guarantee Mr. O’Brien the show five years in advance, nor the plan to put Mr. Leno in prime time.

“Jeff and I are big boys,” Mr. Ebersol said, referring to Mr. Zucker. “When we do something big in the public forum and it doesn’t succeed, we know we’ll be the butt of criticism. But you don’t personally attack someone who hasn’t done anything.” In this case, he added, “we bet on the wrong guy.”
“They’re just striking out at Jay,” Mr. Ebersol said. “It seems like professional jealousy.”
I'm curious about what the "changes" were that Dick Ebersol suggested and Conan O'Brien ignored. I've seen clueless television executives ruin good programs, but I also know that most creatives are not as talented as they think that they are. It would be interesting to see if the suggestions were the kind that could have saved The Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien, or if they would have further hurt the show.

Based on the changes made to Jay Leno's show when he moved into prime time, my guess is that they would have further hurt the show.

Originally Posted by Chuckit
Leno hasn't done any serious, heartfelt explanation, but the jokes he's made about it seem to follow the company line.
Huh? Jay Leno started criticizing NBC about how it was handling this situation a day before Conan O'Brien did, saying that NBC stands for Never Believe your Contract--didn't he use that line in 1992 or 1993 when David Letterman was trying to take The Tonight Show away from him?--and that Fox is beautiful this time of year, and he hasn't stopped with his criticisms.
( Last edited by BasketofPuppies; Jan 15, 2010 at 10:39 AM. )
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The Final Dakar
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Jan 15, 2010, 10:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Jimmy Kimmel giving Leno a hard time about all of this, to put it mildly:

Kimmel: Leno Show Appearance (VIDEO)
I would love to know whether this interview was scheduled before or after Kimmel's Leno impression Tuesday. It's fantastic, watching Kimmel answer the first question honestly and realize half-way through he has a much better answer.

The clip reminded me of one of Leno's habits I can't stand - when someone says something funny that he doesn't quite get(or like) he just repeats the damn phrase.

I also enjoy when Leno turns down doing Kimmel's "12 for 12" idea and Jimmy decides to take the gloves all the way off.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 15, 2010, 10:38 AM
 
As much I hate Leno, I don't think he deserves most of the blame. AT the risk f stating the obvious, I think NBC orchestrated all this and he just played the role of a company guy and now he's in this position. I think five years ago Leno knew this could happen -- that he could get the Tonight Show back if Conan didn't perform well enough fast enough. The entire idea of handing it over seemed like an attempt to keep Conan content with his lot at the Late Night. They put off for five years whatever it is Conan is going to do after this is all over.
     
Buckaroo
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Jan 15, 2010, 11:08 AM
 
No matter what, in the end it all comes down to the ratings, and Conan just couldn't do it.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 15, 2010, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
No matter what, in the end it all comes down to the ratings, and Conan just couldn't do it.
7 months, with Jay Leno burying his lead-in audience. Yeah, that seems like a fair shake.

It should be noted, he didn't do it for his first 2 1/2 years at Late Night, either.
     
Buckaroo
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Jan 15, 2010, 11:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
7 months, with Jay Leno burying his lead-in audience. Yeah, that seems like a fair shake.

It should be noted, he didn't do it for his first 2 1/2 years at Late Night, either.
I couldn't find Leno's Tonight Show numbers, but I did find Conan's.



http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/01/13...ght-show/38787
( Last edited by Buckaroo; Jan 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM. )
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Jan 15, 2010, 11:46 AM
 
Leno is terrible. His humor isn't topical. His comedy is basically a running gag of cheap, obvious laughs.

Unfortunately, he's popular with lots of old people.

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The Final Dakar
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Jan 15, 2010, 11:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Buckaroo View Post
I couldn't find Leno's Tonight Show numbers, but I did find Conan's.



http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/01/13...ght-show/38787
If that's some kind of rebuttal to my point, it's not clear.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 15, 2010, 12:15 PM
 
A reminder that this has happened before and will happen again:

Jay Leno Criticizes NBC On 'Tonight' Cliffhanger - Biography - NYTimes.com
Mr. Leno said he would "obviously leave NBC immediately" if the network decided to give the "Tonight" show to Mr. Letterman. He said he would absolutely refuse to do a show in the 12:30 A.M. spot now occupied by Mr. Letterman's show, "Late Night," and would indeed consider creating the same problem for NBC that Mr. Letterman's proposed deal with CBS caused.

"Would I go to CBS if they asked me?" Mr. Leno said. "Of course. I'm not going to do some little happy hour from Omaha at 12:30."
     
BasketofPuppies
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Jan 15, 2010, 12:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
As much I hate Leno, I don't think he deserves most of the blame. AT the risk f stating the obvious, I think NBC orchestrated all this and he just played the role of a company guy and now he's in this position. I think five years ago Leno knew this could happen -- that he could get the Tonight Show back if Conan didn't perform well enough fast enough. The entire idea of handing it over seemed like an attempt to keep Conan content with his lot at the Late Night. They put off for five years whatever it is Conan is going to do after this is all over.
Leno deserves some of the blame. Not all of it, mind you--NBC executives deserve most of the blame because of the way that they have handled this--but Leno deserves some of it.

While Jay Leno said for months that he would take his old time slot back if NBC offered it to him and complained since 2007 about NBC pushing him out, he voluntarily, albeit reluctantly, agreed in 2004 to give up The Tonight show in five years. Had Leno put his foot down and refused to play along with NBC executives in 2004, this mess would not be playing out publicly, NBC would have been forced to truly take a side and let either Leno or O'Brien go. The one whom NBC didn't pick would have ended up at Fox or ABC, instantly turning that network into a legitimate competitor in late night television, but you can't keep everything for yourself forever.

Instead, NBC tried to hold onto both Conan O'Brien and Jay Leno, which has backfired. Now, both are both angry at NBC and public about it. The Tonight Show brand is damaged. Jay Leno's reputation is damaged. NBC has big holes in its prime time schedule that will be expensive to fill and will probably initially get fewer viewers than The Jay Leno Show. And Fox will be able to establish itself as a legitimate contender in late night television anyway.

This is all because Jay Leno chose to give up The Tonight Show and then changed his mind.

As for Jimmy Kimmel on The Jay Leno Show last night, he was asked to appear after he did his Jay Leno impression. Leno said that he thought that that it was funny.

That's one thing that I will never understand about Jay Leno. No criticism hurts him, no matter how mean-spirited. He is always able to laugh it off.
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The Final Dakar
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Jan 15, 2010, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies View Post
Leno deserves some of the blame. Not all of it, mind you--NBC executives deserve most of the blame because of the way that they have handled this--but Leno deserves some of it.
That's exactly what I'm saying.

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies View Post
While Jay Leno said for months that he would take his old time slot back if NBC offered it to him and complained since 2007 about NBC pushing him out, he voluntarily, albeit reluctantly, agreed in 2004 to give up The Tonight show in five years. Had Leno put his foot down and refused to play along with NBC executives in 2004, this mess would not be playing out publicly, NBC would have been forced to truly take a side and let either Leno or O'Brien go. The one whom NBC didn't pick would have ended up at Fox or ABC, instantly turning that network into a legitimate competitor in late night television, but you can't keep everything for yourself forever.

Instead, NBC tried to hold onto both Conan O'Brien and Jay Leno, which has backfired. Now, both are both angry at NBC and public about it. The Tonight Show brand is damaged. Jay Leno's reputation is damaged. NBC has big holes in its prime time schedule that will be expensive to fill and will probably initially get fewer viewers than The Jay Leno Show. And Fox will be able to establish itself as a legitimate contender in late night television anyway.

This is all because Jay Leno chose to give up The Tonight Show and then changed his mind.
That's pretty much what I said. I think the NBC execs said, "Jay, we'd like you to step aside five years from now, with the caveat that if things don't go well for Conan, you'll get your baby back." Five years probably sounded like a long enough time, but when the time came, reluctance creeped in, hence his suckiness about it all.

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies View Post
As for Jimmy Kimmel on The Jay Leno Show last night, he was asked to appear after he did his Jay Leno impression. Leno said that he thought that that it was funny.
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BasketofPuppies
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Jan 15, 2010, 12:51 PM
 
That graph goes against what I've read. The Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien's ratings dropped significantly in its second week, and Late Show with David Letterman was beating it in total viewers by the middle of June, all of which was before The Jay Leno Show started.
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Brien  (op)
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Jan 15, 2010, 03:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I don't watch Leno, so I'm wondering if he has explained on his show why he isn't taking a principled stand like Conan is, and refusing to bump Conan?
Leno was saying as far back as November he wanted his old job back. I think he wants to bump Conan just as much as Zucker, and from what sources are telling the media, Leno and Conan aren't on speaking terms.

Like everyone above me has said, this could have all been avoided in 2004.
     
Brien  (op)
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Jan 15, 2010, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies View Post
That graph goes against what I've read. The Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien's ratings dropped significantly in its second week, and Late Show with David Letterman was beating it in total viewers by the middle of June, all of which was before The Jay Leno Show started.
IMO, the problem was pretty easy to fix. When Leno had Tonight and Conan had Late Night, they were opposite ends of the comedy spectrum - Leno had the bland humor old folks crave, while Conan had the edgy, quirky humor that eventually won people over.

However I think when Conan took over the Tonight Show he did have to tame down his humor a bit and in the end, he ended up too quirky for Leno's audience and too tame for his own.
     
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Jan 15, 2010, 03:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
However I think when Conan took over the Tonight Show he did have to tame down his humor a bit and in the end, he ended up too quirky for Leno's audience and too tame for his own.
That seems to be consensus.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 15, 2010, 03:28 PM
 
I've also heard some talk that Conan's reverence of the Tonight Show brand also tamed his quirky act.
     
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Jan 15, 2010, 04:33 PM
 
Perhaps he would have done better with a drama lead-in to the news. I mean, how many talk shows do people really want to watch in a row? Same general schtick: monologue, comedy bit, interview, comedy bit.

NBC tried to be cheap and get away without dramas/dramedies at 10, and people were bored.
     
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Jan 15, 2010, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
Perhaps he would have done better with a drama lead-in to the news. I mean, how many talk shows do people really want to watch in a row? Same general schtick: monologue, comedy bit, interview, comedy bit.

NBC tried to be cheap and get away without dramas/dramedies at 10, and people were bored.
Do people really plop down in front of a single channel and stay there for hours? I Tivo select shows and watch them whenever I choose to. The only exception is watching something while I fall asleep. There's no friggin' way I'd watch a 10:00 show, the news, and the variety show all in a row, let alone all on the same channel.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 15, 2010, 05:10 PM
 
Do people really watch Leno? These must be the same people.

Anyway affiliates claim local news ratings have tanked since they switched to Leno's talk show in Prime Time, so there must be at least some correlation.
     
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Jan 15, 2010, 06:23 PM
 
I've never liked Conan or David Letterman. I enjoyed Johnny Carson and Leno. I like that YouTube clip of Ferguson, but I've never seen his show.

It's like, I like Drew Carey and his shows, and I thought he was a great choice for The Price is Right, but a year later when I finally got a chance to watch his Price is Right show, I realized that was a big mistake. He doesn't fit. I don't know who would have been a better choice, but it sucks. I've watched 4 episodes these last 2 weeks and I'm not interested in watching again.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 15, 2010, 06:25 PM
 
Yeah, he is abysmal on that show. He lacks both the presence (voice) and warmth Bob Parker was able to exude.
     
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Jan 15, 2010, 06:32 PM
 
Ehhhh...Drew Carey has always been abysmal, IMO. He was the least funny part of "The Drew Carey Show."

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The Final Dakar
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Jan 15, 2010, 06:37 PM
 
Well, yeah.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 18, 2010, 11:45 AM
 
Now this makes Leno seem much douchier.

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Jan 18, 2010, 12:05 PM
 
Wow...

I remember thinking, "Well, that's a gracious thing to do." He seems genuine and nice in front of the cameras, but has to be an absolute shark behind the scenes.
     
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Jan 18, 2010, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by wallinbl View Post
Do people really plop down in front of a single channel and stay there for hours? I Tivo select shows and watch them whenever I choose to.
As hard as it is to believe, most people still watch TV on a schedule like the pre-PVR days. Although it is a bit weird that people would be loyal to a channel.
     
besson3c
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Jan 18, 2010, 02:59 PM
 
How much longer until the traditional 10 PM news is no longer a tradition? If you really want news at 10 there is CNN/Fox/MSNBC and the internet. When will the 10 PM news cease to get good ratings?
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 18, 2010, 03:04 PM
 
You're not in EST are you, besson.
     
besson3c
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Jan 18, 2010, 03:31 PM
 
I'm in EST.. Is it 11 PM news? I don't know, I haven't watched TV news in literally a decade or more.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 18, 2010, 03:33 PM
 
What makes the 11 pm news different from 24 hour news channels, besson?
     
besson3c
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Jan 18, 2010, 03:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
What makes the 11 pm news different from 24 hour news channels, besson?
It's tethered to 11 PM, which is pretty arbitrary given the high availability of news in other mediums, including 24 hour cable news.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jan 18, 2010, 03:37 PM
 
Nope, try again.
     
Brien  (op)
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Jan 19, 2010, 05:38 PM
 
Hmm, seem to be having trouble posting today (weather?).

It looks like Conan is getting a show on Fox, if this has any truth. Like Andi said though, I'd be careful, Fox tends to cancel stuff like nobody's business.
     
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Jan 21, 2010, 01:49 PM
 
     
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Jan 21, 2010, 08:28 PM
 
Well, here's hoping 7 months doesn't kill his huge "Im with CoCo" fanbase.
     
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Jan 21, 2010, 10:56 PM
 
here's hoping his severance contract doesn't say anything about having an internet-based show during those 7 months off

i'd watch a show with Conan & Andy done from their garage.
     
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Jan 22, 2010, 10:41 AM
 
I will purposly not watch Leno because of what he did to Conan. Hope most of America is smart enough to do the same. THough I do like Jay Leno's Garage. He should stick to cars.
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Jan 22, 2010, 10:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
here's hoping his severance contract doesn't say anything about having an internet-based show during those 7 months off

i'd watch a show with Conan & Andy done from their garage.
I haven't watched Conan in quite a while. Is Andy still around? It was always so weird when he would be sitting off-camera in the chair next to a guest and the guest couldn't figure out whether to ignore him or not.

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Jan 22, 2010, 10:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by stevesnj View Post
I will purposly not watch Leno because of what he did to Conan. Hope most of America is smart enough to do the same. THough I do like Jay Leno's Garage. He should stick to cars.
I'd love if Jay's ratings ended up being similar to Conan's but I think that's being delusional.
     
mdc
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Jan 22, 2010, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
here's hoping his severance contract doesn't say anything about having an internet-based show during those 7 months off

i'd watch a show with Conan & Andy done from their garage.
Revision3 > Blog > An Open Letter to Conan O’Brien
     
 
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