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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > huh ... looks like Canada isn't the only country with homegrown terrorists

huh ... looks like Canada isn't the only country with homegrown terrorists
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Wiskedjak
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Jun 23, 2006, 10:38 PM
 
Analyst: Homegrown terrorists a very big threat

The point? Don't point fingers at others until you've taken a hard look at yourself.
     
Kevin
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Jun 23, 2006, 10:42 PM
 
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=299687

BTW I don't know ONE American that doesn't think we have terrorists here,

Well cept the ones that keep calling it fear mongering.
     
Skywalkers new Hand
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Jun 23, 2006, 10:54 PM
 
Yep, and don't post duplicate threads either.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?t=299687

But I agree, burn.

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Kevin
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Jun 23, 2006, 11:11 PM
 
burn? How is it a burn?

Stop being retards.

The Canadian thing was only made a big deal of because people INCLUDING YOU SWG said they had no reason to attack Canada, etc.

You were simply wrong.
     
Wiskedjak  (op)
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Jun 23, 2006, 11:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
burn? How is it a burn?

Stop being retards.

The Canadian thing was only made a big deal of because people INCLUDING YOU SWG said they had no reason to attack Canada, etc.

You were simply wrong.
And people keep on suggesting that Canada has soft borders and that those soft borders put America at risk.
     
Kevin
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Jun 23, 2006, 11:46 PM
 
Not sure about now, but at one time, that wasn't a far stretch.
     
SimeyTheLimey
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Jun 24, 2006, 07:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
And people keep on suggesting that Canada has soft borders and that those soft borders put America at risk.
Canada does have soft borders, and the US has a soft border with Canada, and the combination puts America at risk. Remember the Milliennium plot? Al Queda terrorist driving from Canada into the US with a bomb in the trunk intended for use in Los Angeles. Caught by sheer luck by an observant border guard. Ring a bell yet?

That is a separate issue from whether or not countries have home-grown terrorists. We know the US has those, so does Canada, Britain, and many other countries. The fact that you may have domestic terrorism is not a reason to forget about foreign terrorism. Both kinds of terrorism are threats. All foreign terrorism is domestic terrorism somewhere else. The idea is to stamp out domestic terrorism before it either operates domestically or before it takes itself across borders, and to prevent domestic terrorists from country A from crossing borders into country B, and potentially later, country C. Whether you live in country A, B, C, or all of the above depending on which terrorist you are talking about equally makes terrorism your concern and not just someone else's problem.

Seriously, stop trying to score nationalist points, and think about this logically. It is in all of our interests to cooperate to prevent terrorists from plotting and moving about the globe.
( Last edited by SimeyTheLimey; Jun 24, 2006 at 08:03 AM. )
     
besson3c
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Jun 24, 2006, 08:43 AM
 
Getting across any border is very easy, as long as you don't exhibit characteristics of lying that the border patrol looks for. It's easy to game the system. I haven't done so myself, but I've studied the whole interaction. It would be easy to say that I'm staying for longer than I am, for instance. I've crossed the US/Canada border several times, and the Americans have yet to ask to see my permanent resident card. They are often more fixated on silly things, like my Birkenstocks shoes, or my parent's ham sandwich.

Border security is a deterrent (and a necessary one), but not an iron clad wall.
     
Wiskedjak  (op)
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Jun 24, 2006, 09:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey
Canada does have soft borders, and the US has a soft border with Canada, and the combination puts America at risk. Remember the Milliennium plot? Al Queda terrorist driving from Canada into the US with a bomb in the trunk intended for use in Los Angeles. Caught by sheer luck by an observant border guard. Ring a bell yet?

That is a separate issue from whether or not countries have home-grown terrorists. We know the US has those, so does Canada, Britain, and many other countries. The fact that you may have domestic terrorism is not a reason to forget about foreign terrorism. Both kinds of terrorism are threats. All foreign terrorism is domestic terrorism somewhere else. The idea is to stamp out domestic terrorism before it either operates domestically or before it takes itself across borders, and to prevent domestic terrorists from country A from crossing borders into country B, and potentially later, country C. Whether you live in country A, B, C, or all of the above depending on which terrorist you are talking about equally makes terrorism your concern and not just someone else's problem.

Seriously, stop trying to score nationalist points, and think about this logically. It is in all of our interests to cooperate to prevent terrorists from plotting and moving about the globe.
Logically? Americans continue to point at Canada as the weak point in North American security in an effort to score nationalist points. Americans have also tried to connect our recent arrest of homegrown terrorists with the claim of soft Canadian borders (including some who have again attempted to connect the 9/11 terrorists with Canada).
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...d=968332188492

You point to one terrorist who attempted to enter the US through Canada. You're neglecting the 20 others who were granted visas to enter the US, with none entering from Canada. Now, where is the soft border?
     
production_coordinator
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Jun 24, 2006, 10:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
Analyst: Homegrown terrorists a very big threat

The point? Don't point fingers at others until you've taken a hard look at yourself.


The people of Oklahoma City are very aware of homegrown terrorists.
     
SimeyTheLimey
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Jun 24, 2006, 10:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
You point to one terrorist who attempted to enter the US through Canada. You're neglecting the 20 others who were granted visas to enter the US, with none entering from Canada. Now, where is the soft border?
It can be both, can it not? Wouldn't addressing both be a good idea?

You seem to be quite defensive on this.
     
Wiskedjak  (op)
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Jun 24, 2006, 11:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey
It can be both, can it not? Wouldn't addressing both be a good idea?

You seem to be quite defensive on this.
Absolutely it can be both. And, yes, I am defensive on this since some American politicians seem intent on attacking Canada in an effort to distract from their own weaknesses.
     
Kevin
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Jun 24, 2006, 11:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
Absolutely it can be both. And, yes, I am defensive on this since some American politicians seem intent on attacking Canada in an effort to distract from their own weaknesses.
Distract? NO. Put them all in the hat.

You just don't like it because Canada was named part of the problem.
     
James L
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Jun 24, 2006, 12:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
Distract? NO. Put them all in the hat.

You just don't like it because Canada was named part of the problem.
I am all for North American security, but here are some quotes from the linked article:

Montana Democrat Max Baucus told Senate colleagues during immigration debate late last month, "We are all aware that some of the 9/11 hijackers made their way into this country through Canada.''

A couple of days after the Toronto arrests, Texas Republican Kay Bailey Hutchison told Fox News: "I have said from the beginning that we have to remember where the 9/11 terrorists came in, and it was the northern border. And we see again that there is another activity on the northern border."
Now, I truly hope that people like these two idiots are not involved in the decision making process.

It is almost 5 years after the 9/11 attacks. The 9/11 commission clearly stated that NONE of the 9/11 terrorists came from Canada, that all of them were issued visas by the US government, and that they entered the US through American airports.

It scares me to think that decision making is being done by people in positions of government that are acting on incorrect information, even though the truth has been known for almost 5 years.

...

Most nations had soft borders until recently. The US - Canada border was pretty wide open. The Americans let all the 9/11 terrorists into their own country through their own airports. Hell, they issued visas to them.

The world has changed, unfortunately. Strengthening the borders is only logical. Decisions need to be made, however, on factual data (something not being done by people like the two uneducated individuals noted above, and possibly others also).

I personally would love to see the US-Canada border strengthened more. We have a huge illegal gun problem in Canada, and most of them come from the US. Terrorism also hits both ways, and tighter borders, within reason, only make sense.
     
Wiskedjak  (op)
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Jun 24, 2006, 03:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin
Distract? NO. Put them all in the hat.

You just don't like it because Canada was named part of the problem.
No, I don't like that Canada is often fingered as the only part of the problem and now using the recent homegrown terrorist arrests in Canada to highlight the point.
( Last edited by Wiskedjak; Jun 24, 2006 at 03:23 PM. )
     
FeLiZeCaT
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Jun 24, 2006, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey
Canada does have soft borders, and the US has a soft border with Canada, and the combination puts America at risk.
And Canada.

Remember the Milliennium plot? Al Queda terrorist driving from Canada into the US with a bomb in the trunk intended for use in Los Angeles. Caught by sheer luck by an observant border guard. Ring a bell yet?
You that one did his job as oppose to the others?

That is a separate issue from whether or not countries have home-grown terrorists. We know the US has those, so does Canada, Britain, and many other countries. The fact that you may have domestic terrorism is not a reason to forget about foreign terrorism. Both kinds of terrorism are threats. All foreign terrorism is domestic terrorism somewhere else. The idea is to stamp out domestic terrorism before it either operates domestically or before it takes itself across borders, and to prevent domestic terrorists from country A from crossing borders into country B, and potentially later, country C. Whether you live in country A, B, C, or all of the above depending on which terrorist you are talking about equally makes terrorism your concern and not just someone else's problem.
Those of Canada got a consultant from the U.S.. I say it is an issue of soft borders as well.

Seriously, stop trying to score nationalist points, and think about this logically. It is in all of our interests to cooperate to prevent terrorists from plotting and moving about the globe.
As you expressed in your first sentence?
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Landos Mustache
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Jun 28, 2006, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey
Canada does have soft borders, and the US has a soft border with Canada, and the combination puts America at risk.
Canadians don't screen who gets into the US. Americans do. If someone gets into the US from Canada who shouldn't it is because the Americans aren't doing their job.

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Wiskedjak  (op)
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Jun 28, 2006, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
Canadians don't screen who gets into the US. Americans do. If someone gets into the US from Canada who shouldn't it is because the Americans aren't doing their job.
See, this point I disagree with. At the US/Canada border, the US places a certain amount of trust in Canada. I like that this trust exists. What I don't like is that some are saying that trust is unfounded, claiming that the Canadian border is "soft" when the evidence would seem to suggest that it is no softer than the American border.
     
PacHead
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Jun 28, 2006, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
See, this point I disagree with. At the US/Canada border, the US places a certain amount of trust in Canada. I like that this trust exists. What I don't like is that some are saying that trust is unfounded, claiming that the Canadian border is "soft" when the evidence would seem to suggest that it is no softer than the American border.
The US should not trust Canada for anything, least of all security matters. Certain people should be doubly examined when entering from Canada and that would make the borders much safer.
     
lpkmckenna
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Jun 28, 2006, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by PacHead
The US should not trust Canada for anything, least of all security matters. Certain people should be doubly examined when entering from Canada and that would make the borders much safer.
Go ahead, feel free to flush your tax dollars down the toilet by doing everything twice.
     
PacHead
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Jun 28, 2006, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna
Go ahead, feel free to flush your tax dollars down the toilet by doing everything twice.
Investigating suspicious people is not wasting tax dollars. Searching an 85 year old woman for the sake of being an idiot PC person is wasting tax dollars.
     
hey!_Zeus
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Jun 28, 2006, 04:43 PM
 
Remember the Buffalo 7 or 8 or whatever?

Anyways...walking down any American city street is a study in terror.
     
Landos Mustache
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Jun 28, 2006, 06:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
See, this point I disagree with. At the US/Canada border, the US places a certain amount of trust in Canada. I like that this trust exists. What I don't like is that some are saying that trust is unfounded, claiming that the Canadian border is "soft" when the evidence would seem to suggest that it is no softer than the American border.
Still makes no sense. If the canadian security was soft that just mean bad people come into canada.

You do NOT cross the border from Canada to the US and are questioned by Canadians, you are questioned by Americans!!

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mojo2
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Jun 28, 2006, 07:16 PM
 
Getting into Canada = Softer entry

That is because Canada thought itself immune to attack and even though Canada is aware that terrorists might try going through Canada to take advantage of softer entry into the USA, an unspoken feeling might exist amongst some Canadians that 'if the US wasn't so obnoxious they would be immune, too.' And so their attitude was that we have nothing to worry about and as for the Americans, let them bear the brunt of keeping themselves safe.

Crossing from Canada into the USA = Softer entry

That is because we consider Canada a friendly neighbor and within the guidelines of safety we want to make it as easy as possible to permit Canadians to visit the US and Americans to visit Canada and for business to be transacted.
( Last edited by mojo2; Jun 28, 2006 at 07:22 PM. )
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Jun 28, 2006, 07:24 PM
 
Frankly, I think our southern border poses the biggest threat. It's not too hard to get through down there in many places.
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mojo2
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Jun 28, 2006, 07:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by greenG4
Frankly, I think our southern border poses the biggest threat. It's not too hard to get through down there in many places.
greenG4, it's not one or the other, it's ALL of the means of entry into the US. If we had to depend only on our border security for remaining safe from terrorist attack we wouldn't have avoided serious attacks since 9/11.

100% border security is impossible.
Give petty people just a little bit of power and watch how they misuse it! You can't silence the self doubt, can you?
     
greenG4
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Jun 28, 2006, 07:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by mojo2
greenG4, it's not one or the other, it's ALL of the means of entry into the US. If we had to depend only on our border security for remaining safe from terrorist attack we wouldn't have avoided serious attacks since 9/11.

100% border security is impossible.
Totally understand/agree. That was actually my thought process, just didn't come through on the keyboard.
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mojo2
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Jun 28, 2006, 07:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by greenG4
Totally understand/agree. That was actually my thought process, just didn't come through on the keyboard.
I hate it when that happens.
Give petty people just a little bit of power and watch how they misuse it! You can't silence the self doubt, can you?
     
hey!_Zeus
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Jun 28, 2006, 11:00 PM
 
Since our oil is crossing into the U.S. to easily...we should turn it off. See if China would like more. Your balls are owned by the world.
     
mojo2
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Jun 28, 2006, 11:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by hey!_Zeus
Since our oil is crossing into the U.S. to easily...we should turn it off. See if China would like more. Your balls are owned by the world.
Please re-think your strategy.
Give petty people just a little bit of power and watch how they misuse it! You can't silence the self doubt, can you?
     
   
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