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smacintush · May 1, 2009, 10:54 AM

So, at what point does "it's just a garden variety gaffe" become "hey, he's kind of an idiot", and ultimately "god he's a moron"?

At what point will the people who voted for him admit that he's either stupid or he's a few bombs shy of a jihad?

Really, it's a serious question. In light of all the jabs at the intelligence of Reagan, Quayle and Bush II from your kind aren't you embarrassed that your President chose such a tool?

Dork. · May 1, 2009, 11:03 AM

It's not his intelligence that's the issue. In fact, I think he's too smart for his own good. He tends to speak before he thinks. That's what is getting him into trouble now. Obama sought him out to be VP for his candid advice. His problem is that he gives it to everyone.

His flaws are quite different than Reagan, Quayle, Bush, or Palin.

BadKosh · May 1, 2009, 11:10 AM

Are you sure he just doesn't remember his lines as coached by his handlers? He doesn't use those buzz words very well either.

besson3c · May 1, 2009, 11:12 AM

Oh Biden... I thought that we were talking about the secretary of fisheries.

Eug · May 1, 2009, 11:13 AM

IMO:

Bush II came across as an idiotic guy who frequently made idiotic statements.

Biden comes across as a smart guy who sometimes makes idiotic statements.

smacintush · May 1, 2009, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Dork.

It's not his intelligence that's the issue. In fact, I think he's too smart for his own good.

Wow.

I figured I would get at least ONE reply along those lines.

He tends to speak before he thinks.

How the HELL is this a sign of intelligence? If he is so smart, why does he have to think so hard before saying something? Most reasonably intelligent…or VERY intelligent people don't come across sounding like an idiot like he does because they are "just too damn smart".

subego · May 1, 2009, 11:27 AM

With Reagan it was the vast difference between his on-book and off-book reads. When he was off book, I swear, the sentence he started with was never the sentence he ended with.

Quayle was smart but a really bad speaker. I didn't realize it at the time. He got a bum rap IMO.

With Bush II, I don't think he's stupid per se, more like (to quote Chris Rock) "there isn't anyone who gives less of a **** than George Bush".

Biden is in the Quayle category, but he's been around enough that people have come to the same conclusion. A big difference though is Quayle seemed to realize at some point he was a bad speaker.

smacintush · May 1, 2009, 11:33 AM

You don't think that some of the crap that Biden says is a little…different than say, putting a "e" on the end of potato? It's more than just misusing words. (ok, calling JOBS a three letter word IS an honest gaffe I'll admit)

besson3c · May 1, 2009, 11:38 AM

I agree that Biden constantly puts his foot in his mouth, but honestly, I would take candidness and genuine sharing of ideas without all of the guarded language even if it meant these sorts of incidents. This goes for anybody. Don't you guys ever get tired of how guarded politicians are with how they speak? How they must pay lip service to the military, how they must stay on tightly scripted message, and how they always evade questions that are not yet "safe" to answer?

smacintush · May 1, 2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I agree that Biden constantly puts his foot in his mouth, but honestly, I would take candidness and genuine sharing of ideas without all of the guarded language even if it meant these sorts of incidents. This goes for anybody. Don't you guys ever get tired of how guarded politicians are with how they speak? How they must pay lip service to the military, how they must stay on tightly scripted message, and how they always evade questions that are not yet "safe" to answer?

So what's wrong with someone who is candid and open and NOT an idiot at the same time?

besson3c · May 1, 2009, 11:48 AM

That would be ideal, but being candid and open is very rare in a politician - Biden is a unique breed. So, perhaps beggers can't be choosers? Who else is as candid as Biden?

subego · May 1, 2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by smacintush

You don't think that some of the crap that Biden says is a little…different than say, putting a "e" on the end of potato? It's more than just misusing words. (ok, calling JOBS a three letter word IS an honest gaffe I'll admit)

Are you implying he isn't clean or articulate?

Seriously though. I'm relatively smart, I say stupid **** all the time. I can think about what I'm going to say for an hour, and it still ends up being stupid ****.

Just read my posts.

besson3c · May 1, 2009, 11:58 AM

Yeah, do you really consider my babbling about Teen Wolf smart? I'm ****ing brilliant too!

smacintush · May 1, 2009, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Are you implying he isn't clean or articulate?

Seriously though. I'm relatively smart, I say stupid **** all the time. I can think about what I'm going to say for an hour, and it still ends up being stupid ****.

Just read my posts.

So how many years of being in the public eye and making speeches would it take for you to generally get over that?

subego · May 1, 2009, 12:09 PM

I'd probably never get over it. More likely I'd react by shutting up, which would lead to me more or less disappearing.

Like Quayle.

Or not. This is in public. Look at my join date. I still say stupid ****.

turtle777 · May 1, 2009, 01:25 PM

Once more, for good measure:

-t

ghporter · May 1, 2009, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

IMO:

Bush II came across as an idiotic guy who frequently made idiotic statements.

Biden comes across as a smart guy who sometimes makes idiotic statements.

From the way the media plays it, Biden comes across as a smartish guy who frequently makes idiotic statements. I don't recall seeing a video bite of him saying anything particularly profound, but I recall lots of them of him sounding like he was intellectually challenged.

subego · May 1, 2009, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

IMO:

Bush II came across as an idiotic guy who frequently made idiotic statements.

Biden comes across as a smart guy who sometimes makes idiotic statements.

The irony here is that I think if you look beneath the surface, Biden's "problem" is that he's a pretty simple guy. He has basically one mode of operation: total and utter earnestness.

Think about it. The guy even ****s up in earnest.

On the other hand, Bush is this twisted mass of conflict and ennui with an okie veneer.

ghporter · May 1, 2009, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by subego

The irony here is that I think if you look beneath the surface, Biden's "problem" is that he's a pretty simple guy. He has basically one mode of operation: total and utter earnestness.

Think about it. The guy even ****s up in earnest.

On the other hand, Bush is this twisted mass of conflict and ennui with an okie veneer.

Okie? Big mistake. He's Texan. Like everything else, being goofy is bigger here too.

subego · May 1, 2009, 07:47 PM

Texas is a state.

Okie is a state of mind.

Eug · May 1, 2009, 08:09 PM

OK then. Let's just say I wouldn't want either Bush II or Biden as prez.

As for Obama, I was always suspect of him, because he never said anything during the campaign, except CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE. We'll see what he does in the next couple of years.

turtle777 · May 1, 2009, 08:26 PM

Sh!t. Haven't we seen enough already ?

How much more change can this country possibly take ?

-t

Dork. · May 1, 2009, 09:28 PM

We need as much change as we can get -- we need to find it in the couch cushions if we want to retire someday.

turtle777 · May 1, 2009, 09:39 PM

^^^

-t

subego · May 1, 2009, 09:44 PM

Black Guy Asks Nation for Change

According to witnesses, a loud black man approached a crowd of some 4,000 strangers in downtown Chicago Tuesday and made repeated demands for change.

"The time for change is now," said the black guy, yelling at everyone within earshot for 20 straight minutes, practically begging America for change.

Eug · May 1, 2009, 09:52 PM

Awesome.

That's my favourite news site of all time. They were the first to break this story.

finboy · May 4, 2009, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by subego

Are you implying he isn't clean or articulate?

Seriously though. I'm relatively smart, I say stupid **** all the time. I can think about what I'm going to say for an hour, and it still ends up being stupid ****.

Just read my posts.

I actually like Biden for his humanity. I always know where he's going to stand (on the party line, like right on top of it) and he's going to speak his mind (and the mind of the party left).

In this case, he was caught being a REAL PERSON for a change. And when he made that statement, we were still watching this unfold. He even said "that's just me." Give the guy a break. Most of us realize that when he opens his mouth we have to put on the BS filters -- he isn't called "Lyin' Joe" for nothing.

stupendousman · May 4, 2009, 06:50 AM

I don't think Biden is all that smart. That doesn't mean he's stupid, or an idiot. I just don't think his intelligence is all that much above the average privileged elite. No smarter than Quayle or Bush - but they were Republicans and the media are never going to treat them the same (and like another poster mentioned, I really don't think Bush gave a sh## which didn't help).

Biden's problem is that he thinks he's smarter than the average politician, and isn't all that honest. That makes him feel free to talk about stuff with a confidence he shouldn't have, and when he doesn't know something he'll just start making things up. Those two qualities are what makes him gaffe prone.

Not exactly something that should give someone a lot of confidence, but again, it's a Democrat - he'll get a pass.