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Election 2020 (Page 5)
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Thorzdad
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Nov 21, 2020, 10:06 PM
 
Rep. Mike King has filed suit to have all mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania disqualified. Claims the law expanding mail-in voting is unconstitutional.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 21, 2020, 10:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I do try to say it correctly, but have always been irked the correct way implies the Democrats have a monopoly on democracy.
Conversely, calling it the Democrat (sans “ic”) Party, beyond being grammatically wrong, is used as a rib. Having “democratic” or some other positive adjective in the name of parties isn’t exactly something new. Do Republicans have a monopoly on the republic? Do Libertarians have a monopoly on liberty? I don’t think I have heard any self-professed Democrat complain about either.
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subego
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Nov 21, 2020, 11:05 PM
 
I cannot think of a single instance in my life of someone using the word “republican” or “libertarian” to refer to anything other than the respective parties.

This is not the case with “democratic”.



Edit: I guess I’ve heard of “Republican Rome” to contrast with “Imperial Rome”, but I wouldn’t say that’s something I hear commonly, and it always has the word “Rome” after it.

As an aside, Republican Rome is way more interesting than Imperial Rome, but it totally gets the short shrift.

Suetonius is good times, though.
( Last edited by subego; Nov 22, 2020 at 12:36 AM. )
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 22, 2020, 12:55 AM
 
You have never heard things like “the United States is a republic and not a democracy?” I find that hard to believe.
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subego
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Nov 22, 2020, 01:03 AM
 
I said “republican”, not “republic”.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 22, 2020, 01:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I said “republican”, not “republic”.
A noun is as good as an adjective in this context.
Besides, it is very easy to come up with plenty of other examples that go in the same direction: do patriots have to vote for the PATRIOT Act, for example? If you were against the “No-child-left-behind Act”, did you want to leave children behind (in the context of education or otherwise)? People come with names for things and organizations that have positive connotations.

PS I have never heard of Republican Rome, just of the Roman Republic
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subego
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Nov 22, 2020, 02:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I have never heard of Republican Rome
Now you have!

Which speaks to my point, “republican” doesn’t really get used for anything except the party. This is not the case with “democratic”.

I also consider “PATRIOT” and “No Child Left Behind” to be very poor descriptors of the legislation so named, and yes, I think both names are meant to imply people against the legislation don’t support those things. They’re propaganda names.
( Last edited by subego; Nov 22, 2020 at 06:04 AM. )
     
subego
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Nov 22, 2020, 04:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
Rep. Mike King has filed suit to have all mail-in ballots in Pennsylvania disqualified. Claims the law expanding mail-in voting is unconstitutional.
Almost zero chance. Hail Mary, full of grace.
     
Waragainstsleep  (op)
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Nov 22, 2020, 08:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Almost zero chance. Hail Mary, full of grace.
Do you not find the fact they try stuff like this utterly abhorrent?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Nov 22, 2020, 02:24 PM
 
I’m not a huge fan of it, but that’s how politics is usually played.

If it’s contestable, contest it. Throw everything at the wall and see if it sticks.

A common tactic here in Chicago is to contest petition signatures and get a candidate thrown off the ballot.

Politics is a dirty sport.
     
Waragainstsleep  (op)
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Nov 22, 2020, 03:14 PM
 
Theres fouling your opponents, then theres attacking the spectators.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Nov 22, 2020, 03:27 PM
 
Maybe I’m misunderstanding the analogy, but the example I gave seems like attacking the spectators.
( Last edited by subego; Nov 22, 2020 at 09:44 PM. )
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 22, 2020, 11:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I’m not a huge fan of it, but that’s how politics is usually played.
I think what is going on now is unprecedented and not “how politics is usually played.”
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Spheric Harlot
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Nov 23, 2020, 08:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I think what is going on now is unprecedented and not “how politics is usually played.”
Unprecedented in the United States.

The systematic elimination of electoral results not to the liking of the regime is not at all unprecedented in other nations that descended into autocracy.
     
subego
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Nov 23, 2020, 03:25 PM
 
Broke autocrat: challenges votes in court and loses.

Woke autocrat: challenges votes in court and wins through bribes and intimidation.

Bespoke autocrat: fixes the election.
     
OreoCookie
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Nov 23, 2020, 09:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Unprecedented in the United States.

The systematic elimination of electoral results not to the liking of the regime is not at all unprecedented in other nations that descended into autocracy.
Sure. Although I was speaking within the context of the US.
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Spheric Harlot
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Nov 24, 2020, 06:41 AM
 
Yes. But I felt it was worth pointing out, because I’m not sure many Americans aware of what we see apparently happening from the outside (like sitting in slowly boiling water).
     
Waragainstsleep  (op)
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Nov 24, 2020, 07:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Maybe I’m misunderstanding the analogy, but the example I gave seems like attacking the spectators.
You think that subliminally staking a claim to owning democracy is a worse attack on the people than disenfranchising hundreds of thousands to steal an election?

Are you ok?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Nov 24, 2020, 12:38 PM
 
The example I gave was challenging petition signatures to get a candidate thrown off the ballot.
     
andi*pandi
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Nov 24, 2020, 12:44 PM
 
Right now in Georgia they are throwing people off the voter roll who were registered and successfully voted nov 3, and requiring vehicle registration in order to get back on.

     
subego
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Nov 24, 2020, 01:18 PM
 
That’s bad (and illegal) if it’s happening, but reports it’s happening seem short on evidence so far.
     
andi*pandi
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Nov 24, 2020, 01:40 PM
 
https://twitter.com/JakeLobin/status...48716483694593

the official line is that of course this isn't happening, legally it can't... but yet... smoke/fire.

https://www.11alive.com/article/news...5-4d10d7ab45e7

Yet this article shows the 3 rules they wanted to add, and which presumably were voted in:
https://www.wjcl.com/article/georgia...unoff/34752828

dropbox surveilance: fine
absentee processing time reduced: hmm
review evidence of residency: not everyone who is a resident has a car to register...

Could I move to Georgia now, register to vote, vote in january, then move back home?

NH has a similar issue with students, they don't reregister their cars when they come to campus but they get NH drivers licenses. Some don't want them to vote in NH despite living there 8 months of the year.
     
subego
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Nov 24, 2020, 03:04 PM
 
The third rule was scrapped because that rule apparently already exists, and IIUC, it has to do with new registrations, not existing ones.

If voters are getting purged, let’s see affidavits. Some rando on Twitter is scant evidence.
     
Waragainstsleep  (op)
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Nov 24, 2020, 06:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
The example I gave was challenging petition signatures to get a candidate thrown off the ballot.
My mistake sorry. I'm not exactly sure how that example works and where it applies tbh.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Spheric Harlot
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Nov 25, 2020, 09:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
https://twitter.com/JakeLobin/status...48716483694593

the official line is that of course this isn't happening, legally it can't... but yet... smoke/fire.
„Where there‘s smoke, there‘s fire“ has ceased to have any meaning at all in the age of Breitbart and QAnon.

Chrissakes, there are collages of press photographs of random celebrities, simply alleging that they are pedophiles, and similar collages of Joe Biden kissing HIS GRANDCHILDREN, alleging the same.

No, smoke no longer indicates fires. In fact, it’s good cause to be looking for mirrors, instead.
     
Thorzdad
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Nov 25, 2020, 10:22 AM
 
     
Doc HM
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Nov 26, 2020, 12:04 PM
 
So what are peoples guesses. Will the man-child attend Biden's inauguration. Seems like a punishing ask of the worlds most fragile ego.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
reader50
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Nov 26, 2020, 01:01 PM
 
My guess: he won't attend the inauguration.

Also, he'll pardon himself on Jan 19, or the morning of Jan 20. As late as possible, to cover as much as possible.
     
subego
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Nov 26, 2020, 01:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
As late as possible, to cover as much as possible.
“Scusi, Mille regretti!”
     
subego
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Dec 1, 2020, 07:02 PM
 
Barr just gave Trump a paddlin’.
     
Thorzdad
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Dec 1, 2020, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Barr just gave Trump a paddlin’.
Wow. That frankly surprises me. Maybe being lumped in with Giuliani and crew was a bridge too far even for Barr?
     
Thorzdad
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Dec 2, 2020, 02:02 PM
 
I was listening to NPR this morning, and noted a striking change in how they refer to Trump's allegations of vote fraud. Until this morning, they've always been careful to couch his allegations as "unproven" or "unsubstantiated" some such terminology. This morning though, the presenter termed Trump's allegations as "lies". It was kind of startling to hear, given how careful they've been on this matter, and I have to wonder how much Barr's declaration of no fraud was kind of like a switch being thrown. Like the thinking was "OK. If even Bill-effing-Barr is saying there's no fraud, we can finally call Trump's allegations what they are. Lies."
     
Paco500
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Dec 2, 2020, 08:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I cannot think of a single instance in my life of someone using the word “republican” or “libertarian” to refer to anything other than the respective parties.
Over here we hear a lot about republicans and republicanism not related to the US political party- ie Irish republicanism (I’m sure you are familiar with the IRA), and those that want to do away with the monarchy in the UK.

There are also quite a few people who call themselves libertarians, although there is not, to my knowledge, a libertarian party.
     
subego
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Dec 5, 2020, 12:04 PM
 
Ah! There’s another example of “Republican” I had forgotten.

I’m curious... do UK libertarians hold positions similar to US libertarians?
     
Thorzdad
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Dec 5, 2020, 06:17 PM
 
     
Paco500
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Dec 5, 2020, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Ah! There’s another example of “Republican” I had forgotten.

I’m curious... do UK libertarians hold positions similar to US libertarians?
Well *FROM MY EXPERIENCE* there is a pretty broad spectrum of US libertarians, everything from ‘republicans that smoke pot’ to ‘classic’ republicans that think the modern party has lost its way (ignoring deficits, corporate welfare, being in the back pocket of evangelicals, etc), to republicans who are embarrassed to admit they are republicans, to Ayn Rand acolytes, and more. There does seem to be a common thread of devotion to second amendment, low taxes, and absolute property rights.

The few UK libertarians I’ve encountered don’t give a toss about guns, but are hot on low taxes and property rights.
     
subego
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Dec 6, 2020, 09:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Well *FROM MY EXPERIENCE* there is a pretty broad spectrum of US libertarians, everything from ‘republicans that smoke pot’ to ‘classic’ republicans that think the modern party has lost its way (ignoring deficits, corporate welfare, being in the back pocket of evangelicals, etc), to republicans who are embarrassed to admit they are republicans, to Ayn Rand acolytes, and more. There does seem to be a common thread of devotion to second amendment, low taxes, and absolute property rights.
Where are the pedophiles with recreational nukes?
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 6, 2020, 11:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Ah! There’s another example of “Republican” I had forgotten.

I’m curious... do UK libertarians hold positions similar to US libertarians?
Well, once you cross borders, all comparisons are off. In Japan the conservative party is the Liberal Democratic Party. Many German parties have “democratic” in their names, the party with the libertarian bent is the Free Democratic Party, the center-right party is the Christian Democratic Union, the center-left party is the Social Democratic Party, etc. We also had The Republicans (Die Republikaner), they were a right-wing extremist party in Germany.

It seems that the attention of most modern countries have shifted their emphasis away from the republican aspect (= form of government) to the democratic aspect (= form of governance).
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Waragainstsleep  (op)
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Dec 7, 2020, 06:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
We also had The Republicans (Die Republikaner), they were a right-wing extremist party in Germany.
Same as America then?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 8, 2020, 01:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
from meghan mccain's twitter (!!!!)
Re-quoting this just because it's so ****ing awesome.
     
Thorzdad
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Dec 8, 2020, 04:46 PM
 
Now Texas has sent to SCOTUS a Motion For Leave To File Complaint, to allow Texas to sue Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Georgia, and Michigan to invalidate their election results. Apparently, states have to get the high court’s permission to sue each other in some circumstances. I’m told it takes five votes to grant a motion for Leave to File.

Here’s the filing.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 9, 2020, 01:56 PM
 
And, in a turn of events that the GOP wasn't expecting after stacking the court with assholes and sycophants, SCOTUS told them to **** off.


The End.
     
subego
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Dec 9, 2020, 03:27 PM
 
No one expects this to go anywhere.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 9, 2020, 04:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
No one expects this to go anywhere.
Well, not anymore, obviously.

But what were they expecting before they got laughed out of court?

Is this all just part of the huge plan involving voter disenfranchisement and general distrust of democracy in general, moving the once-nation into an GOP dictatorship in the long-term future?
     
subego
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Dec 9, 2020, 05:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
But what were they expecting before they got laughed out of court?
If I understand correctly, the Texas AG is,

1) Under indictment for securities fraud
2) Under investigation by the FBI
3) Had 8 deputies attempt a mutiny
4) In trouble for getting his side-piece a gig

In other words, this guy is desperate for any kind of soft landing he can find. He has nothing to lose.
     
Thorzdad
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Dec 9, 2020, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
And, in a turn of events that the GOP wasn't expecting after stacking the court with assholes and sycophants, SCOTUS told them to **** off.


The End.
That was the filing by Pennsylvania legislators to throw out Pennsylvania votes. SCOTUS hasn’t acted on the Texas filing, for which 17 other states have now filed an amicus. It’s a hopeful precedent, though.
     
Thorzdad
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Dec 9, 2020, 06:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Is this all just part of the huge plan involving voter disenfranchisement and general distrust of democracy in general, moving the once-nation into an GOP dictatorship in the long-term future?
Yes.

A permanent majority has long been part of Republican long-term plan, no matter the means. Once they get that, they can burn the government to the ground. They see Trump as their big chance to start the fire, and they aren’t going to let go of this dream.
     
subego
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Dec 9, 2020, 08:06 PM
 
I feel “no matter the means” implies they’re being extralegal, which isn’t usually the case.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 9, 2020, 08:16 PM
 
There is historical precedent for dictatorships arising legally.
     
subego
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Dec 9, 2020, 08:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
There is historical precedent for dictatorships arising legally.
Which one were you thinking of specifically?
     
 
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