Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Terrorist Eric Rudolph to be sentenced today

Terrorist Eric Rudolph to be sentenced today
Thread Tools
Wiskedjak
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 09:53 AM
 
     
dcmacdaddy
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Madison, WI
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 10:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/18/ru...sentencing.ap/

Terrorists aren't all Muslim Arabs
No, just the really EVIL ones are.

----------------------------
In a statement distributed after his guilty pleas, Rudolph portrayed himself as a devout Christian and said the bombings were motivated by his hatred of abortion and a federal government that lets it continue.

"The fact that I have entered an agreement with the government is purely a tactical choice on my part and in no way legitimates the moral authority of the government to judge this matter or to impute guilt," Rudolph said in the statement.
----------------------------

Sounds like the defiance of a religious terrorist to me. It seems he believes his cause is above that which the government can/should control. Granted, his brand of terrorism tends to be more isolated and individualized--we don't have masses of anti-abortion insurgents committing acts like this as a group--but I have no doubt that what took the government so long to find him was an unspoken "wink and a nod" from other like-minded individuals (in the rural communities where he was hiding) that his actions really were OK and they would help protect him.

Anyway, nice to see this terrorist get his day in court. I am curious as to what he will say in court when he gets his chance to speak today. Probably more anti-government terrorist propoganda.

Thanks for the link Wiskedjak.
One should never stop striving for clarity of thought and precision of expression.
I would prefer my humanity sullied with the tarnish of science rather than the gloss of religion.
     
Macrobat
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 10:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/18/ru...sentencing.ap/

Terrorists aren't all Muslim Arabs

No one has ever claimed that they are, just those who like to try and protect, harbor and secrete the very same Muslim terrorists who keep bringing up the fact that there are non-Muslim terrorists.

No one disputes that.

The bone of contention is the way those terrorists are treated by their indigenous societies, with the very fact that Rudolph has been tried and is about to be sentenced underlining and providing the exclamation point to that argument.

Thank you for bringing it up.
"That Others May Live"
On the ISG: "The nation's capital hasn't seen such concentrated wisdom in one place since Paris Hilton dined alone at the Hooters on Connecticut Avenue." - John Podhoretz
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 10:59 AM
 
Don't forget that he is also responsible for the 1996 Atlanta bombings. An attack that though it only killed one person was able to injure 111 persons. And what's funny is that his statement regarding it sounds just like some of our right-wing nutters here. Wonder how many sympathise with him.......

In the summer of 1996, the world converged upon Atlanta for the Olympic Games. Under the protection and auspices of the regime in Washington millions of people came to celebrate the ideals of global socialism. Multinational corporations spent billions of dollars, and Washington organized an army of security to protect these best of all games. Even thought the conception and purpose of the so-called Olympic movement is to promote the values of global socialism, as perfectly expressed in the song "Imagine" by John Lennon, which was the theme of the 1996 Games even though the purpose of the Olympics is to promote these despicable ideals, the purpose of the attack on July 27 was to confound, anger and embarrass the Washington government in the eyes of the world for its abominable sanctioning of abortion on demand.

The plan was to force the cancellation of the Games, or at least create a state of insecurity to empty the streets around the venues and thereby eat into the vast amounts of money invested.
It'll be interesting to see how many try to derail this thread and defend him.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
mojo2
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 11:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy
No, just the really EVIL ones are.

----------------------------
In a statement distributed after his guilty pleas, Rudolph portrayed himself as a devout Christian and said the bombings were motivated by his hatred of abortion and a federal government that lets it continue.

"The fact that I have entered an agreement with the government is purely a tactical choice on my part and in no way legitimates the moral authority of the government to judge this matter or to impute guilt," Rudolph said in the statement.
----------------------------

Sounds like the defiance of a religious terrorist to me. It seems he believes his cause is above that which the government can/should control. Granted, his brand of terrorism tends to be more isolated and individualized--we don't have masses of anti-abortion insurgents committing acts like this as a group--but I have no doubt that what took the government so long to find him was an unspoken "wink and a nod" from other like-minded individuals (in the rural communities where he was hiding) that his actions really were OK and they would help protect him.

Anyway, nice to see this terrorist get his day in court. I am curious as to what he will say in court when he gets his chance to speak today. Probably more anti-government terrorist propoganda.

Thanks for the link Wiskedjak.
Splendid insights comparing and contrasting Rudolph with other religious terrorists.

Another difference is that he didn't kill himself.

I think you are making an admirable attempt to better understand the USA and our people and conventions, so I will give you a little of my thoughts on this guy, Rudolph.

He is a sick, twisted puppy. I never worried that he'd be caught or killed eventually. (Reminds me of OBL on the run.) I have NO sympathy for him other than from one human being who is diminished by the death of any other.


Hahaha! Gotcha! But seriously...

Unfortunately he has proven himself unfit to live peaceably in society. The court will deal justly with him. May the families of his victims gain some solace from his sentence and ultimate fate.
( Last edited by mojo2; Jul 18, 2005 at 11:16 AM. )
Give petty people just a little bit of power and watch how they misuse it! You can't silence the self doubt, can you?
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 11:06 AM
 
That didn't take long

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
dcmacdaddy
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Madison, WI
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 11:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by mojo2
Splendid insights comparing and contrasting Rudolph with other religious terrorists.

Another difference is that he didn't kill himself.
Yeah, I've never understood why suicidal acts of terrorism are not particularly "Western"? There seems to be some masive pre-conceived notion about suicide as being a particularly tainted act to commit, even when in service to a cuase (like what a suicide bomber would do). Some might say it has to do with the fundamental Christian background to most of Western culture but I am not sure about that. I would have to look back into my history books some more to see if there are examples in the past whereby acts of suicide-based terror were committed by Westerners. Got any info on the subject yourself, mojo?
One should never stop striving for clarity of thought and precision of expression.
I would prefer my humanity sullied with the tarnish of science rather than the gloss of religion.
     
mojo2
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 11:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy
Yeah, I've never understood why suicidal acts of terrorism are not particularly "Western"? There seems to be some masive pre-conceived notion about suicide as being a particularly tainted act to commit, even when in service to a cuase (like what a suicide bomber would do). Some might say it has to do with the fundamental Christian background to most of Western culture but I am not sure about that. I would have to look back into my history books some more to see if there are examples in the past whereby acts of suicide-based terror were committed by Westerners. Got any info on the subject yourself, mojo?
As a matter of fact I've been neglegent in my reading. I just got the new Robert Pape book, "Dying to Win" and so far it's been so good! I just need to plant myself and knock it off so I can share all of it's info with all of youse!


Give petty people just a little bit of power and watch how they misuse it! You can't silence the self doubt, can you?
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy
Yeah, I've never understood why suicidal acts of terrorism are not particularly "Western"? There seems to be some masive pre-conceived notion about suicide as being a particularly tainted act to commit, even when in service to a cuase (like what a suicide bomber would do). Some might say it has to do with the fundamental Christian background to most of Western culture but I am not sure about that. I would have to look back into my history books some more to see if there are examples in the past whereby acts of suicide-based terror were committed by Westerners. Got any info on the subject yourself, mojo?
All I can remember now while at work is that the term "suicide bombings" date back to 1947 when talking about the Japanese Kamikaze pilots of WWII.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
mojo2
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2005
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 11:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
All I can remember now while at work is that the term "suicide bombings" date back to 1947 when talking about the Japanese Kamikaze pilots of WWII.
Did I say that??

The Kamikaze (Divine Wind) (like my farts?) Campaign was waged by the Japanese against the US forces in the Pacific Theater of Operations in WWII from 10/25/44 until Japan surrendered on 8/15/45.

However, the kamikazes weren't considered terrorists because they targeted solely soldiers and sailors, not civilians and because their actions were directed by a recognized national government.
Give petty people just a little bit of power and watch how they misuse it! You can't silence the self doubt, can you?
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 12:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by mojo2
Did I say that??

The Kamikaze (Divine Wind) (like my farts?) Campaign was waged by the Japanese against the US forces in the Pacific Theater of Operations in WWII from 10/25/44 until Japan surrendered on 8/15/45.

However, the kamikazes weren't considered terrorists because they targeted solely soldiers and sailors, not civilians and because their actions were directed by a recognized national government.
Uhhh, I never said that you said that. Calm down. The Muslim Coalition is not coming to get you.































just yet.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Macrobat
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 12:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by mojo2
Did I say that??

The Kamikaze (Divine Wind) (like my farts?) Campaign was waged by the Japanese against the US forces in the Pacific Theater of Operations in WWII from 10/25/44 until Japan surrendered on 8/15/45.

However, the kamikazes weren't considered terrorists because they targeted solely soldiers and sailors, not civilians and because their actions were directed by a recognized national government.

They were also Oriental, not Western. They were adherents of yet another nihilist, militaristic ideology - Bushido.

Nice try, Logic, but it fails when your namesake is applied.
"That Others May Live"
On the ISG: "The nation's capital hasn't seen such concentrated wisdom in one place since Paris Hilton dined alone at the Hooters on Connecticut Avenue." - John Podhoretz
     
Wiskedjak  (op)
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Calgary
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 01:14 PM
 
Is the terrorist who doesn't kill himself somehow better than the terrorist who does?
     
Macrobat
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 02:03 PM
 
Where did you get anyone making that inference?

Oh, I see, you just want to further your own agenda (yet again).
"That Others May Live"
On the ISG: "The nation's capital hasn't seen such concentrated wisdom in one place since Paris Hilton dined alone at the Hooters on Connecticut Avenue." - John Podhoretz
     
BRussell
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Rockies
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 02:06 PM
 
I wonder who has committed more acts of terror on US soil, right-wing Christians or Islamists? After 9/11, I'm sure there have been many more people killed by Islamists. But I bet there have been many, many more acts of Christian terrorism in the US - all the abortion clinic bombings and arsons and murders, as well as OK City and Atlanta. I guess the Christians just aren't as effective.
     
Macrobat
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 02:25 PM
 
Why even use the word Christian?

What is more important, the sheer number of acts (the vast majority of which are miniscule in scale. With notable exceptions being OK City and 9/11) or the number of lives taken?

The two greatest acts of terrorism in the US were committed by an American citizen claiming no religious motivation whatsoever, and Islamic Fundamentalists.

To put in in perspective for you, 9/11 killed more people than Pearl Harbor, all the assorted small terrorist acts you insist on continually bringing up, and OK City combined.

No one is denying any of the abortion clinic bombings, etc. you seem to want to bring into any debate on terrorism (ad nauseum). But every single one of those instances combined have killed fewer than 200 people over a period of 30 years.

They have also been against specific targets (except OKC) and haven't deliberately set out to kill and maim persons not even associated with the target in question. I am not trying to justify or approve of these acts, but you seriously need to get some perspective here, or do you simply have that particular post (or some variant of it) saved to your clipboard for a quick copy/paste?
"That Others May Live"
On the ISG: "The nation's capital hasn't seen such concentrated wisdom in one place since Paris Hilton dined alone at the Hooters on Connecticut Avenue." - John Podhoretz
     
BRussell
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Rockies
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Macrobat
Why even use the word Christian?
In that article it says that Rudolph described himself as a devout Christian opposed to abortion. I certainly don't believe he's a real Christian, but I'm sure most Muslims don't believe bin Laden is a real Muslim either, and yet we always talk about "Islamic terrorism." Call a spade a spade.
What is more important, the sheer number of acts (the vast majority of which are miniscule in scale. With notable exceptions being OK City and 9/11) or the number of lives taken?

The two greatest acts of terrorism in the US were committed by an American citizen claiming no religious motivation whatsoever, and Islamic Fundamentalists.
In the US, Christian terrorists have committed more acts of terrorism but killed less people, Islamic terrorists have committed fewer acts but killed more people. I'm not really sure which is more important. Like I said, maybe the Christian terrorists just aren't as effective, and they will be some day - there were many smaller acts of Islamic terrorism before the big one on 9/11. How about we say they're both equally wrong?
     
Macrobat
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 03:03 PM
 
And I'm not arguing with you, just wondering why you feel the need to incessantly bring up other acts of terrorism, as if they can be quantified or qualified. As I said in my first post of this thread, the number of terrorist acts, their severity or the number of people killed are not the important issue at hand.

What is the important issue at hand is the very fact that Eric Rudolph will never again see the light of freedom for his acts. This is decidedly NOT true of Islamist terrorists. The paramount point in this entire discussion is the FACT that this country, as well as others in the West and East prosecute the terrorists for the criminals they are, nto worship them as heroes and martyrs.

Until you manage to assimilate that, it's useless even discussing this with you.
"That Others May Live"
On the ISG: "The nation's capital hasn't seen such concentrated wisdom in one place since Paris Hilton dined alone at the Hooters on Connecticut Avenue." - John Podhoretz
     
BRussell
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Rockies
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 03:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Macrobat
And I'm not arguing with you, just wondering why you feel the need to incessantly bring up other acts of terrorism, as if they can be quantified or qualified. As I said in my first post of this thread, the number of terrorist acts, their severity or the number of people killed are not the important issue at hand.
I feel the need to incessantly bring it up? I don't believe I've ever brought it up before, and I didn't start this thread.
What is the important issue at hand is the very fact that Eric Rudolph will never again see the light of freedom for his acts. This is decidedly NOT true of Islamist terrorists. The paramount point in this entire discussion is the FACT that this country, as well as others in the West and East prosecute the terrorists for the criminals they are, nto worship them as heroes and martyrs.

Until you manage to assimilate that, it's useless even discussing this with you.
We lock up McVeigh and Rudolph, sure. Are you saying that other countries wouldn't lock up those who commit terrorism against them? I think what you mean is that we don't have people committing terrorism against other countries. Right you are, and good for us.
     
loki74
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 18, 2005, 11:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Macrobat
They were also Oriental, not Western. They were adherents of yet another nihilist, militaristic ideology - Bushido.

Nice try, Logic, but it fails when your namesake is applied.
I dunno. Somehow, Bushido doesnt seem to me as twisted and vile as extremist fundamentalist muslim. Also, as far as I know, Bushido is not so much of a religion as it is a soldier's code right? Not to mention that militaristic or not, there are not crazy Asains doing terror attacks are there? So there is no comparison.

BRussell & Macrobat: good points. Terror is tolerated and honored in other countries.

BRussell: Re: "Islamic terrorism." I would reply to your point about that with the fact that by mutilating the Muslim religion, the islamic terrorists use that religion to justify their actions. AFAIK rudolph did not use Christianity to justfy his. BUt I would agree, he is not a real Christian. Christian terrorists? Hmm I think a mentioned poit that also applies here is that there are no Christians doing terror on foreign soil. That is uber important if you ask me.

I think that while you may have a few cases of terror commited by non muslims, the Muslim terrorists have a whole lot more dirt on their hands as well as a much higher concentratoin of terrorists. They are definately a bigger blip on the radar if you ask me.

"In a world without walls or fences, what need have we for windows or gates?"
     
Macrobat
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 09:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by BRussell
I feel the need to incessantly bring it up? I don't believe I've ever brought it up before, and I didn't start this thread. We lock up McVeigh and Rudolph, sure. Are you saying that other countries wouldn't lock up those who commit terrorism against them? I think what you mean is that we don't have people committing terrorism against other countries. Right you are, and good for us.

Why, yes, I am saying precisely that. There are countries which do not lock up or even pursue terrorists with an eye toward bringing them to justice. Unfortunately, all of these countries are Muslim.
"That Others May Live"
On the ISG: "The nation's capital hasn't seen such concentrated wisdom in one place since Paris Hilton dined alone at the Hooters on Connecticut Avenue." - John Podhoretz
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Macrobat
Why, yes, I am saying precisely that. There are countries which do not lock up or even pursue terrorists with an eye toward bringing them to justice. Unfortunately, all of these countries are Muslim.
Which countries would that be?

And are you talking about those who the US consider terrorists, or the once the West consider terrorists, or that the whole world consider terrorists?

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 10:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Which countries would that be?

And are you talking about those who the US consider terrorists, or the once the West consider terrorists, or that the whole world consider terrorists?
People who strap bombs to their children to blow up other children. THOSE terrorists.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 10:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
People who strap bombs to their children to blow up other children. THOSE terrorists.
So you have to strap a bomb on you and aim for other children to become a terrorist now? Isn't a man who bombs an abortion clinic to force his beliefs upon others a terrorist as well? What about a man that bombs ships and the radiotowers for ships and fishermen to force his own ideas upon them? Is he not a terrorist? Why do you people always try to narrow down the definition a much as possible just to exclude those like this thread is about and the terrorists you support?

And I asked him about what countries. You obviously think that only Muslims are terrorists but that's your problem.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
BRussell
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Rockies
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by loki74
BRussell: Re: "Islamic terrorism." I would reply to your point about that with the fact that by mutilating the Muslim religion, the islamic terrorists use that religion to justify their actions. AFAIK rudolph did not use Christianity to justfy his. BUt I would agree, he is not a real Christian. Christian terrorists? Hmm I think a mentioned poit that also applies here is that there are no Christians doing terror on foreign soil. That is uber important if you ask me.
According to the article he claimed to be a devout Christian. His motivation was standard Christian religious right - against gays and abortion.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
So you have to strap a bomb on you and aim for other children to become a terrorist now? Isn't a man who bombs an abortion clinic to force his beliefs upon others a terrorist as well? What about a man that bombs ships and the radiotowers for ships and fishermen to force his own ideas upon them? Is he not a terrorist? Why do you people always try to narrow down the definition a much as possible just to exclude those like this thread is about and the terrorists you support?

And I asked him about what countries. You obviously think that only Muslims are terrorists but that's your problem.
You know, it's numbnut comments like the ones above that remind me why I left the Poli forum a while back. Thanks for reminding me. "The terrorists I support?" Get a life, dumbass.

All terrorist acts are terrible, but there are degrees of evil, and Islamic terrorists are currently the worst by far. If you can't see the difference between using children as suicide bombers and what Rudolph and McVey did, then there really is no hope for you. Ever.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by BRussell
According to the article he claimed to be a devout Christian. His motivation was standard Christian religious right - against gays and abortion.
A true Christian would never take it, anywhere near, that far. Thus, he's just a fruitloop.

Most decidedly, however, he's not Christian.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
You know, it's numbnut comments like the ones above that remind me why I left the Poli forum a while back. Thanks for reminding me. "The terrorists I support?" Get a life, dumbass.

All terrorist acts are terrible, but there are degrees of evil, and Islamic terrorists are currently the worst by far. If you can't see the difference between using children as suicide bombers and what Rudolph and McVey did, then there really is no hope for you. Ever.
So you consider targetting a federal building with a child-care centre to be less evil than "using" a 16 year old kid to go bomb something?

Interesting logic there.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
A true Christian would never take it, anywhere near, that far. Thus, he's just a fruitloop.

Most decidedly, however, he's not Christian.
When will you start spending as much time saying the same when you hear the term "Islamic terrorists"?

I won't hold my breath.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
When will you start spending as much time saying the same when you hear the term "Islamic terrorists"?

I won't hold my breath.
The majority of Muslims support terrorism, the majority of Christians do NOT support terrorism. You figure it out.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
People who strap bombs to their children to blow up other children. THOSE terrorists.
What? Like this?:



Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
So you consider targetting a federal building with a child-care centre to be less evil than "using" a 16 year old kid to go bomb something?

Interesting logic there.
Yes, I do consider it worse. It's much more horrific for someone to use their own child as a weapon, and that's why they do it.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
The majority of Muslims support terrorism, the majority of Christians do NOT support terrorism. You figure it out.
Complete and utter bigoted BS. Congratulations.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
What? Like this?:
*SNIP*
Yep. You know what they say, "there's nothing like a mother's love".
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
Yes, I do consider it worse. It's much more horrific for someone to use their own child as a weapon, and that's why they do it.
Interesting because I think deliberately attacking a building with a child-care centre and that attack resulting in 19 dead children(with scores of others injured) worse.

Ah well, I guess the difference in skin colour and religion tips the scales for you. I'll still just look at the facts. It's a shame an educated man like you don't.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:51 AM
 
And here's the difference...

To be guaranteed to get into Heaven, one only has to believe.
To be guaranteed to get into paradise, one has to die during the fight.

Those 72 virgins you get as a bonus, you know, are all going to be blokes... ...because let's face it, the hadiths say most women go to hell for being ungrateful.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 11:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
And here's the difference...

To be guaranteed to get into Heaven, one only has to believe.
To be guaranteed to get into paradise, one has to die during the fight.

Those 72 virgins you get as a bonus, you know, are all going to be blokes... ...because let's face it, the hadiths say most women go to hell for being ungrateful.
1. Hadiths are very unreliable.
2. Care to show me those Hadiths?
3. What are you talking about above? It makes no sense.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Complete and utter bigoted BS. Congratulations.
nope, I've seen the stats and polls. Spin it all you want, doesn't change the facts.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 12:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
1. Hadiths are very unreliable.
Yet somehow the basis for sharia law. Are you admitting that sharia law is unreliable?

Originally Posted by von Wrangell
2. Care to show me those Hadiths?
Bukhari 1, 28.
Bukhari 1, 301.
Bukhari 2, 161.

Originally Posted by von Wrangell
3. What are you talking about above? It makes no sense.
What makes no sense?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 12:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Interesting because I think deliberately attacking a building with a child-care centre and that attack resulting in 19 dead children(with scores of others injured) worse.

Ah well, I guess the difference in skin colour and religion tips the scales for you. I'll still just look at the facts. It's a shame an educated man like you don't.
no, it's a shame that an intelligent person such as yourself is blinded by your religion, to accept the despicable, hateful monster that Islam has become. Accepting that mothers are using their children as bombs, how "peaceful" of you.

Shame on you for taking cheap shots at me that you know are false, you're becoming more vile every time I talk to you, your proximity with your exteremist bretheren is tainting your soul. "God" have mercy on you.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
lil'babykitten
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Herzliya
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
Yet somehow the basis for sharia law. Are you admitting that sharia law is unreliable?Bukhari 1, 28.
Bukhari 1, 301.
Bukhari 2, 161.
What makes no sense?
Why the new nic, Sherwin?
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by lil'babykitten
Why the new nic, Sherwin?
'Coz I felt like it LBK.

The old nic fulfilled its intended purpose and thus became redundant.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 02:03 PM
 
Has nothing to do with you being banned(from the pol lounge) does it?

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 02:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
nope, I've seen the stats and polls. Spin it all you want, doesn't change the facts.
And I'm sure you have a link for that

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 02:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
Yet somehow the basis for sharia law. Are you admitting that sharia law is unreliable?
The Sharia is in certain places as much of a heresy as saying Jesus is God.
Bukhari 1, 28.
Bukhari 1, 301.
Bukhari 2, 161.
Good for you. Like I(and you'll see that every Muslim on this board) said, the Hadiths aren't reliable.
What makes no sense?
This part: "To be guaranteed to get into Heaven, one only has to believe.
To be guaranteed to get into paradise, one has to die during the fight."

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Sherwin
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
Has nothing to do with you being banned(from the pol lounge) does it?
No.
If it doesn't scare hippies, it's not worth listening to
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 02:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
This part: "To be guaranteed to get into Heaven, one only has to believe.
To be guaranteed to get into paradise, one has to die during the fight."
Well... How does a muslim get into paradise?
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 02:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
no, it's a shame that an intelligent person such as yourself is blinded by your religion, to accept the despicable, hateful monster that Islam has become. Accepting that mothers are using their children as bombs, how "peaceful" of you.

Shame on you for taking cheap shots at me that you know are false, you're becoming more vile every time I talk to you, your proximity with your exteremist bretheren is tainting your soul. "God" have mercy on you.
See, again you confuse the religion with some of it's "followers". Islam hasn't become a despicable hateful monster. Some of it's "followers" have. If Islam was what you claim it is the world would be burning from the north to the south, from the east to the west. If 1.5 billion people were followers of a "despicable, hateful monster" you wouldn't be able to sit in the safety of your house typing your misunderstandings in public. And just to let you be able to sleep at night. I don't accept that at all. That was a rather serious accusation you made there without the slightest hint of truth to back it up. Seems like you need to calm down for an hour or two. You life in sin seems to be affecting your mood.

How do I know it's false? What other reason is there to claim that deliberately killing 19 children and injuring several else at the same time as killing just under 200 people is less evil than "using" a 16 year old like some do?

Well, my "exteremist bretheren" don't exist. I don't start friendship with extremists. Such a shame that you think that though. Might I ask what made you think I have "exteremist bretheren"?

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by von Wrangell
And I'm sure you have a link for that
Why? They've been posted here so many times, and you've seen them so often, what would be the point? Hasn't Vmarks posted the link enough times? Quite frankly, I don't feel like running down the link again.

Nice tactic though, make people keep repeating the same question over and over until they finally get fed up with the subject and you. Great debating strategy.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
von Wrangell
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Under the shade of Swords
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 19, 2005, 02:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy
Well... How does a muslim get into paradise?
2:112 Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to Allah and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged;- and verily, Allah is most powerful for their aid
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:19 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,