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Are you getting the H1N1 vaccine? (Page 2)
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Oisín
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Oct 27, 2009, 02:42 PM
 
I’m about 95 per cent sure I had the flying pig flu in July, so I’m not going to get the vaccine, though it’s offered for free (which is more than regular vaccines are!). I’ve never had a flu shot, and I don’t see the point in them for normal people with no ‘special needs’. I usually get the flu a couple of times a year (had one just a few days ago, I think), but it’s always very mild, lasting no more than about two days. I’d rather get my antibodies ‘the natural way’, and being ill a few days a year doesn’t really bother me that much.

I have my ditepol and all that, and I’ll take particular ones for travelling (hepatitis number something and Japanese encephalitis for Asia, etc.), but seasonal vaccines are a thing I’d much rather be without.

Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
Would that be because there is a shortage after it was late in being available? Are you listening to the doctors on TV who are in a position to know about its development? They say it's been thoroughly tested. I'm not a doctor, but I pretend to be one on the Internet.
One of the two main types (I forget whether it was the adjuvanted or the unadjuvanted one) was not thoroughly tested on pregnant women before the vaccines were shipped out; I’ve seen interviews with two different doctors working on the vaccine saying that. Both of them also said that there’s no reason this one type would present a higher risk than the other one, but since it hasn’t been thoroughly tested, they don’t know. The MIH here has ordered GPs that, if available, pregnant women should always be given the other type, the one that’s been properly tested.

Now, I have no idea if this is the only aspect of the vaccine that was hurried or went untested before shipping, but it definitely constitutes ‘being rushed’ in my book.

Really? How many people do you know who have already gotten the H1N1 vaccine and then the flu? How many people do you know who have not told you they got the vaccine and are not sick with the flu?
The question wasn’t directed at me, but I’ll answer anyway, for my own part: we were offered the vaccine at work some time last week (or whenever it was exactly—as some of the first, since apparently emergency call centre staff are considered ‘high priority’ in this), but not many people took it. Of the six people I know did take it, four have since been diagnosed with bacon flu [love that expression, by the way; thanks, screamingFit!]. One or two of them might possibly have been infected beforehand, but the two others didn’t start getting symptoms until five or six days after the vaccine, so there’s very little chance they had it already.

Similarly, I don’t know a single person from my everyday life who takes the normal flu shots regularly, because every single person I’ve talked to who took it once or twice have almost immediately fallen sick with the flu, which kind of defeats the point.
     
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Oct 27, 2009, 03:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
That's what they said about Thalidomide. And British beef about three weeks before all the cows started falling over.
Thalidomide demonstrates the major differences between understanding of biomedicine and clinical trials in the 1950s and now. The MMR vaccines have been used on billions of people for nearly 40 years with no known major side effects.

British beef... well, that was your problem. Politicians trying to save an industry because they're bribe- err, I mean, lobbied by that industry. I'm sure you've seen those videos from the 1950s about DDT in America.
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Oct 27, 2009, 05:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
Out of the 8 teachers that I know at a private school, 7 have grown sick with either stomach issues/nausea and flu-like symptoms. I know of no other people to receive the vaccine - most are refusing, some are post-poning.

That makes no sense as a question. I'm not Merlin.
You're pretty sharp, despite the hyphen in postponing. The question answered itself, and you answered it also. It was rhetorical. The point is, you don't know. How could you? Had you said "everyone I know of who got the vaccine" I probably wouldn't have asked.
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Yonkers can have better TV reception.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 27, 2009, 05:27 PM
 
Wow, you sure got him.
     
Laminar
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Oct 27, 2009, 06:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Wow, you sure got him.
What I believe you meant to say is
 
     
RobOnTheCape
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Oct 27, 2009, 06:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by MrsLarry View Post
No vaccines at all? not even the old standards.. measles, mumps, polio? or just new vaccines, lke chicken pox and H1N1? I'm always curious to hear people's reasoning behind it. I've yet to pick a side, and am always interested in others' views on it.

I think he had the vitamin k shot, but that's it. I know quite a few doctors who have decided against vaccinating their kids, but have been very quiet about it at the hospital. They simply weighed the pros and cons and said to the schools "It's against our religion".


Some drawbacks though, a very good dentist dropped my child from his practice.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 27, 2009, 06:44 PM
 
I'm not getting the H1N1 vaccine, but I am getting the HIV vaccine and then its unprotected sex until the cows come home.
     
Demonhood
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Oct 27, 2009, 06:47 PM
 
the disturbing part of that being how close "unprotected sex" is to "cows" in that sentence.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 27, 2009, 06:49 PM
 
Reported.
     
imitchellg5
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Oct 27, 2009, 07:01 PM
 
I've only had two flu shots, and both of them got me sick. And I hate shots.
     
Oisín
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Oct 27, 2009, 07:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
the disturbing part of that being how close "unprotected sex" is to "cows" in that sentence.
Or more precisely, how close “unprotected sex” is to “until the cows come”.
     
JellyBeen
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Oct 27, 2009, 07:36 PM
 
Here is the opinion of a neurosurgeon.

Dr Russell Blaylock Warns to Avoid the H1N1 Vaccine
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osiris
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Oct 27, 2009, 08:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
You're pretty sharp, despite the hyphen in postponing. The question answered itself, and you answered it also. It was rhetorical. The point is, you don't know. How could you? Had you said "everyone I know of who got the vaccine" I probably wouldn't have asked.
A juicy bit of correction there. I'm going to keep an eye on you (though I'm not sure which one).
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osiris
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Oct 27, 2009, 08:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I'm not getting the H1N1 vaccine, but I am getting the HIV vaccine and then its unprotected sex until the cows come home.
Which is why you are so greatly appreciated here at MacNN.
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Person Man
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Oct 27, 2009, 08:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by JellyBeen View Post
Here is the opinion of a neurosurgeon.
And I can find two neurosurgeons who recommend getting it. I work with both of them. Ask a hundred doctors, you'll get a hundred different opinions.

I got mine. And I have no problem with people refusing to get either the H1N1 vaccine or the seasonal flu shot. The only problem I have is when people refuse it for reasons based on junk science. (or hearsay on the internets).
     
cjrivera
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Oct 27, 2009, 09:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Person Man View Post
And I can find two neurosurgeons who recommend getting it. I work with both of them. Ask a hundred doctors, you'll get a hundred different opinions.

I got mine. And I have no problem with people refusing to get either the H1N1 vaccine or the seasonal flu shot. The only problem I have is when people refuse it for reasons based on junk science. (or hearsay on the internets).
Well said.
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CharlesS
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Oct 27, 2009, 10:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
Just the flu kills 36,000 people a year in the U.S. That makes the odds small, but whatever happened to "better safe than... dead”?
And traffic accidents kill about 45,000 people a year. Do you bite your nails every time you go to work?

Again, I’ll probably end up getting the vaccine sooner or later, because getting the flu is annoying and ruins one’s schedule. Freaking out about the odds of dying from it, though, is a waste of time.

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Wiskedjak  (op)
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Oct 27, 2009, 10:42 PM
 
Thanks, everyone. After reading the discussions in this thread (I trust the collective opinions in MacNN more than I trust either the talking-doctor-heads or the talking-paranoid-heads), I'm leaning towards getting it. But, where I am, people are standing in line for 5 hours to get the shot. 5 hours in a confined space with a few thousand people potentially infected with a highly contagious form of influenza.
     
King Bob On The Cob
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Oct 28, 2009, 12:45 AM
 
I am not, (Meh. A large chunk of my friends have had swine flu, no reason I can't fight if off as well) and certain classes of sick people should not be as well.

Quoting my sister (pharmacist who administers the crud), it's a live ("damaged" but sure) virus inoculation, so if you are already susceptible to catch it and you can't fight it off, do not get the vaccine. My mother was warned against it as someone currently on chemo.
     
lexapro
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Oct 28, 2009, 01:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by JellyBeen View Post
Here is the opinion of a neurosurgeon.

Dr Russell Blaylock Warns to Avoid the H1N1 Vaccine
Neurosurgeons know one thing really well- brain and spine surgery. They seriously have spent all of their medical career on that. I would never, ever trust their opinion on immunology.
     
Oisín
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Oct 28, 2009, 05:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by lexapro View Post
Neurosurgeons know one thing really well- brain and spine surgery. They seriously have spent all of their medical career on that. I would never, ever trust their opinion on immunology.
That was kind of my initial reaction, too. Why get a neurosurgeon to talk about a flu vaccine? It’s having peasants talking about cucumber salad. Why not get an immunologist or a virologist?

And out of those 36,000 who die every year of the seasonal flu, how many are people in extra sensitive groups (very elderly people with little immune system left, people with other immune deficiencies or immunosuprressive diseases, very small children, etc.)? By far the majority. And how many of us in here (in this thread, I mean) belong to any of those high-risk groups? Any at all?
     
JellyBeen
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Oct 28, 2009, 08:12 AM
 
You would think that merely finding the SV40 virus (causes cancer in humans) in the Polio vaccine would be enough for most people to be cautious...guess not!
Many people are getting sick from their yearly jabs (auto-immune diseases, neurological diseases).People will believe what they want in the end, fear is the greatest incentive- a powerful driving force. When Codex Alimentarius goes into effect at the end of the year, we will see the extent of that damage on the population at large.
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Oct 28, 2009, 08:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by lexapro View Post
Neurosurgeons know one thing really well- brain and spine surgery. They seriously have spent all of their medical career on that. I would never, ever trust their opinion on immunology.
That's like saying that Steve Vai doesn't know a bad bassline when he hears one.

Guess who neurosurgeons play golf with. That's right. Immunologists and pathologists.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Oct 28, 2009, 09:33 AM
 
We need Dr. Nick in here.
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The Final Dakar
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Oct 28, 2009, 09:50 AM
 
Would it have been been more on topic if I had said I was going to have unprotected sex until pigs fly?
     
cjrivera
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Oct 28, 2009, 09:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by King Bob On The Cob View Post
Quoting my sister (pharmacist who administers the crud), it's a live ("damaged" but sure) virus inoculation, so if you are already susceptible to catch it and you can't fight it off, do not get the vaccine. My mother was warned against it as someone currently on chemo.
The Flumist (nasal) is a live virus. That is why someone immunocompromised should not get it.

The shots (intramuscular injections) are inactivated and are actually recommended for many patients with cancer.
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Oct 28, 2009, 09:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
And traffic accidents kill about 45,000 people a year. Do you bite your nails every time you go to work?
Vaccines and automobiles, when used correctly, do not kill people. Traffic "accidents" are almost always caused by bad drivers, regardless of road/weather conditions. There are occasional mechanical failures that result in crashes, of course. I don't worry when I drive, but I do worry about other drivers when I'm waiting for someone to arrive who's late, or to call and say, "I made it."

I've already gotten my seasonal flu shot. When the H1N1 vaccine is available to low-risk groups, and my clinic has it, I'll get one.
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Yonkers can have better TV reception.
     
Laminar
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Oct 28, 2009, 10:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
We need Dr. Nick in here.
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osiris
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Oct 28, 2009, 11:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
"So what are we doing? A lengthening, or a widening?"
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 28, 2009, 11:19 AM
 
I actually do a decent Dr. Nick impression.

FYI.
     
Demonhood
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Oct 28, 2009, 02:39 PM
 
i'm pretty sure i just had the swine flu, so there's no need for the vaccine. relatively mild. no puking, no coughing, no wild mood swings filled with murderous thoughts.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 28, 2009, 02:40 PM
 
You did, however, watch a lot of Green Acres.
     
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Oct 28, 2009, 02:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
We need Dr. Nick in here.
I put my faith in Dr. Katz.


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Laminar
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Oct 28, 2009, 03:20 PM
 
Actually, I had swine flu last week, it's not bad -- no symptoms at all.
     
Gregg
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Oct 29, 2009, 09:39 AM
 
Yeah, those illnesses with no symptoms aren't bad at all. I've had several, some terminal.
Ya gotta applaud those bunnies for sacrificing their hearing just so some guy in Yonkers can have better TV reception.
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 29, 2009, 09:45 AM
 
You don't get to play along.
     
msuper69
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Oct 29, 2009, 09:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Rumor View Post
Nope. Last time I got a flu shot I got the flu (this year excluded due to prednasone taken).
You must have already been sick. You can't get the flu from the vaccine. It's made from dead virus. Physically impossible to get the flu from it.
     
msuper69
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Oct 29, 2009, 09:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
...

It's not that I'm opposed to the vaccinations, I've just never found the need to bother with them.
Lucky you.

My dad was in the USAF and when we got transferred overseas we got a boatload of vaccinations. Man I hated those hospital visits. Try 3 or 4 shots in each arm. We had to chase my brother down one time he was so freaked out.
     
msuper69
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Oct 29, 2009, 10:06 AM
 
I'm in one of those high-risk groups (insulin-dependent diabetic).

I will get both seasonal and H1N1 vaccines as soon as I can find someplace in Columbus, OH that has them and at low-cost (I'm unemployed w/no health insurance).

Why oh why do we constantly hear the H1N1 variant referred to as 'Swine Flu'. So far, a single pig has been found to have H1N1 and that was just recently. I'm guessing it's because H1N1 doesn't sound as sexy as Swine Flu. Kind of like HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray.
     
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Oct 29, 2009, 10:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by msuper69 View Post
Why oh why do we constantly hear the H1N1 variant referred to as 'Swine Flu'. So far, a single pig has been found to have H1N1 and that was just recently. I'm guessing it's because H1N1 doesn't sound as sexy as Swine Flu. Kind of like HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray.
So sexy.


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msuper69
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Oct 29, 2009, 10:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
So sexy.

Actually, I owe my life to pigs (and cows). Before recombinant DNA technology, insulin was made from pig and cow pancreases.

Funny pic though.
     
Oisín
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Oct 29, 2009, 11:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by msuper69 View Post
Why oh why do we constantly hear the H1N1 variant referred to as 'Swine Flu'. So far, a single pig has been found to have H1N1 and that was just recently. I'm guessing it's because H1N1 doesn't sound as sexy as Swine Flu.
No, it’s because they’re not the same thing, which many people somehow seem not to have realised. H1N1 is NOT the same as swine flu. H1N1 is one of the most common, if not THE, most common subtype of the influenza virus. Your regular seasonal flu is very likely to be a strain of H1N1, too.

‘Swine influenza’ really refers to any flu that’s endemic in pigs, so it’s true that it’s a misnomer to call this specific strain ‘the swine flu’. However, three of the five viruses that this current one is made up of, so to speak, are swine influenzas, so it’s not wholly senseless to call this at least a swine flu, or perhaps rather a swine flu-based flu.

‘Swine flu’ (or ‘flying pig flu’, ‘bacon flu’, and any other comic variants thereof) are, however, a truckload sexier than its ‘proper’ name (if it can be said to have one), which would be Pandemic H1N1/09 virus/influenza.

You must have already been sick. You can't get the flu from the vaccine. It's made from dead virus. Physically impossible to get the flu from it.
He wasn’t necessarily sick already; he can easily have contracted another strain of the virus after having the shot, to which his body succumbed more easily than it normally would have, while it was busy getting rid of the strain from the vaccine, and thus in a more vulnerable state.
     
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Oct 29, 2009, 11:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
It does not have a higher mortality rate than the seasonal flu so I don't understand why people are so freaked out about it. There were lines wrapping around the clinics in some out lying counties here. Its not worth waiting in line for 3 hours. If you are healthy enough to withstand that line you don't need the vaccine.

Maybe if I was old or sickly I would consider getting it but I will pass at this time.

People should just let nature thin the herd. It is how things are meant to be.
Because H1N1 has managed to kill healthy people, where the regular flu only kills the weak.
     
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Oct 29, 2009, 12:51 PM
 
I might shed some light on why there are people who say getting the flu shot "gives them the flu."

Many of the symptoms of influenza are not due to the viral infection itself, but due to the body's immune system response to the virus. So what we think of as influenza in terms of symptoms is actually a combination of the virus itself and the body's immune system.

One of the components of the immune system response to influenza is a class of signaling proteins called interferons. Interferon is what produces many of the symptoms of influenza, including slight increase in temperature, headache, fatigue, and generalized muscle aches and pains. These are (surprise!) all symptoms of influenza as well.

So, when most people say that the flu shot gave them the flu, the more accurate explanation is that the flu shot activated their immune system which made them *feel as if* they had the flu. Big difference.

I will also say that every time I get a flu shot, I feel bad for about two days afterwards, with a mild headache and some slight muscle aches. But I get mine every year (and this year I got to experience it twice... first with the "regular" shot and then with the pandemic H1N1 shot), and the reason is that I can deal with these relatively minor symptoms. One year (before I went to medical school) I did get influenza "for real." The symptoms of the "real flu" don't even compare to what I feel when I get a flu shot. I was extremely sick for a week... I *NEVER* want to go through that again if I can avoid it.

Plus, it's a service to my patients. 1) It's no good if your doctor spreads the flu virus to you, and 2) if your doctor is sick at home with the flu, who will take care of you if you're sick in the hospital with the flu?
     
vcutag
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Oct 29, 2009, 02:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
It's my understanding that H1N1 is no worse than seasonal flu in healthy adults (with regard to fatalities) but is harder on children and younger teens as well as pregnant women.
I had a friend die of it back in June, she was 24 and in perfect health.
     
Eug
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Oct 29, 2009, 02:38 PM
 
I will get the vaccine.

I was gonna get it yesterday, but the local place ran out.

Originally Posted by Gregg View Post
Vaccines..., when used correctly, do not kill people.
Actually, yes they do, albeit rarely.

Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
To be clear, vaccination against the common flu is arguably pointless. Vaccinating your children against small pox, cholera, polio, etc. should always be done.
The risk of death from small pox vaccine is higher than the risk of death from small pox now. For this reason, for most people, small pox vaccines haven't been administered for the last 30 years.

People in developed countries generally don't get cholera vaccines either.

Getting vaccinated against the influenza virus makes a heluvalot more sense than getting vaccinated against small pox.
     
Oisín
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Oct 29, 2009, 02:46 PM
 
So, when most people say that the flu shot gave them the flu, the more accurate explanation is that the flu shot activated their immune system which made them *feel as if* they had the flu. Big difference.

I will also say that every time I get a flu shot, I feel bad for about two days afterwards, with a mild headache and some slight muscle aches. But I get mine every year (and this year I got to experience it twice... first with the "regular" shot and then with the pandemic H1N1 shot), and the reason is that I can deal with these relatively minor symptoms. One year (before I went to medical school) I did get influenza "for real." The symptoms of the "real flu" don't even compare to what I feel when I get a flu shot. I was extremely sick for a week... I *NEVER* want to go through that again if I can avoid it.
I’m sure there are quite a lot of people who confuse the effects the shot itself has on you with having an actual flu; but there are also some people (at least two people I know, for starters) who chose not to continue with the seasonal flu shots exactly because the flu they got within a couple of weeks of getting the shot was by far the worst and most violent flu they’d ever had—for one of them, it lasted over a month and she lost over 25 lbs. in that time.

Personally, I’ve only ever had the ‘real’ flu once, and that was this summer when I (almost certainly) had flying pig flu; all other times I get the flu, I get a very, very mild version of it. I had the whole fever-headache-occasional-vomiting thing for about a week (usually lasts one to two days), and I had seven or ten days after that where I didn’t have any fever or actual symptoms, but was generally very quick to tire, had no energy, and (for some reason) had very sore gums. If I got something that lasted that long every year, I’d probably take the vaccine, too. But I don’t. I just get something that amounts to slightly more than what most people call a cold.
     
Eug
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Oct 29, 2009, 02:55 PM
 
Most people who say they got "the flu" actually don't have any type of influenza virus. (Well, prior to this year at least.)
     
Cold Warrior
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Oct 29, 2009, 03:56 PM
 
Get the shot if you do. The nasal liquid you snort is not as effective and is more prone to side effects.
     
Person Man
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Oct 29, 2009, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
I’m sure there are quite a lot of people who confuse the effects the shot itself has on you with having an actual flu; but there are also some people (at least two people I know, for starters) who chose not to continue with the seasonal flu shots exactly because the flu they got within a couple of weeks of getting the shot was by far the worst and most violent flu they’d ever had—for one of them, it lasted over a month and she lost over 25 lbs. in that time.
Unfortunate coincidences. There is a time-lag between getting the shot and building up immunity to the flu viruses so it's possible that one can be exposed to the virus before or immediately after getting the shot and still get the flu. Those people you know who got violently ill would most likely have done so even if they had not gotten the shot.
     
 
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