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moowriece · 12:40 PM

A Iraq war could have some significant delaying influence on the deliverance of our new 12" and 17" Powerbooks! The international traffic will be strained in a war situation and very tensefull.

BTW off-topic: as a European I am apalled by the war mongering sounds in the White House!!

I hope Europe (esp. France and Germany) will have the guts to slow down or stop the American and British war machine (it seems they plan to do so). Join the worldwide protests on February 15th! War is bad for the economy and world stability and peace and certainly will make our PowerBooks less powerful than they should be!

PHoynak · Jan 22, 2003, 12:40 PM

Would you rather let that SOB keep his bio/chem weapons and threaten us? His goal is to kill Americans or our friends. America has the right to defend itself and protect our national security. The next time Europe needs us to save their assess fat chance.

Sorry for the rant.

Mister Elf · Jan 22, 2003, 01:05 PM

jeez, what is with u europeans? This is getting dumb. Go and complain about ur own country, not ours. And, i agree, what is with us having to save you in almost every major war you get yourselves into???

lokjah · Jan 22, 2003, 01:14 PM

powerbooks. thats why we're in this forum......

and theres the lounge forum..

just dont wanna see this turn into a 468 reply thread about flames, i'm in this forum to read about powerbooks.

l�k

moowriece · Jan 22, 2003, 01:15 PM

<off-topic>
Europeans and with us the majority of the world (ask e.g. Russia, China or Canada) want the UN-inspectors have their way and resolve the Iraqi issue peacefully. War is not going to solve it, but worsen the situation. Iraq is not a threat. International terrorism is. Some Americans tend to think in black-white, especially the American media are very one-sided (they didn't even cover the anti-war demonstrations in the US the first time). Lots of Americans I know do not agree with George Bush but they have been silenced so far (unpatriotic?). Let them speak out and join the rest of the world before it gets too late.
</off-topic>

CyberPet · Jan 22, 2003, 01:21 PM

[IRONY] Isn't America always at war? [/IRONY]

Anway, the concern was about the delivery of PowerBooks. As far as I know they are manufactured outside US and unless Taiwan and other countries that makes the machines is having some kind of conflict in delivering the machines to the US or other countries, I guess yes, then it can happen.

But so far so good, hasn't happen yet. Can't even recall if it's happen before either when US has been at war.

PBAddict · Jan 22, 2003, 02:36 PM

I hope when you are all using the term Europeans you are excluding the British!!!

appledude83 · Jan 22, 2003, 02:46 PM

Well since Mac's are assembled pretty far from the Middle East I'm thinking things won't be slowed down too much, hopefully at least.

rustyclockwork · Jan 22, 2003, 03:03 PM

THE WAR GET IN THE WAY?????

Nawwww....

We'll have Apple build Victory Ships... then have our subs protect the convoy of PowerBooks coming into mainland waters....

c'mon now loosen up and let's all sing!

"Anchors Aweigh my boys
Anchors Aweigh
Farewell to college joys
We sail at break of day day day day
Through our last night on shore
Drink to the foam
Until we meet once more
Here�s wishing you a happy voyage home! "

-Jason

chipchen · Jan 22, 2003, 03:12 PM

we already have iSubs...

hopefully it just doesn't get bundled with iSync.

k2director · Jan 22, 2003, 03:18 PM

Iraq is not a threat. International terrorism is.

And I suppose Iraq developing nuclear weapons and covertly selling them off to Al Queda or whoever else would have no effect on international terrorism?

What will it take for you people to recognize a threat? I know: it will take a nuke detonating in an American city for you to say "oh, gee, maybe there was something to that after all." (and then you'll still blame us for provoking the attack because of our imperialistic tendencies, or our support for Israel, or for not signing at Kyoto, or because there are too many MacDonalds in the world, or that somebody doesn't like the values in our television, or whatever else). I love how everyone was shocked and horrified after September 11th (it's easy to love a pure victim), but as soon as the U.S. began to move against those who perpetrated the act (the Taliban), Europeans were suddenly up in arms about "stop the racist war" and "no blood for oil" and "no war on poor little Afghanistan". When I saw that, I realized a great many people over there just didn't get it.

Europeans have more than once preferred to stick their head in the sand and ignore problems until they fester into a major crisis (you remember World War II, don't you?). And now you're doing it again.

It's easy to talk dreamily about peace and diplomacy, but that only works when the other side is equally committed to those principals. And it would take a true idiot to not realize that in many places in the world, those principals have absolutely no respect or appreciation. And at that point, you have to decide if you'll allow yourself to be a victim, or take the steps to confront a threat before it actually can hurt you. I choose the latter, and I'm very glad my country is doing the same.

gyc · Jan 22, 2003, 03:40 PM

Why does Germany, France, Russia, and China oppose U.S.'s actions on Iraq?

Because
1) France has a deal with Saddam after the sanctions are lifted for Iraq's oil

2) Germany has a similar deal w/ Saddam

3) Russia and China sell weapons to Iraq

Therefore "it's all about the oil" actually also applies to sides that don't want to take Saddam out. To think that other countries oppose the war on Iraq purely on humanitarian/altruistic reasons is wistful thinking...

Homer1946 · Jan 22, 2003, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by chipchen:
we already have iSubs...

hopefully it just doesn't get bundled with iSync.

Maybe Apple can use the iSubs to capture Iraq and make it iRaq.

-R

Peter · Jan 22, 2003, 05:03 PM

wow I read this topic about Powerbooks, and all I read about is ... AMERICANS! Lets discuss the Powerbook people!

Superchicken · Jan 22, 2003, 05:04 PM

iRaq that's great.

hahaha.

I'm a Canadian and I acctually think the US should go to war with Iraq, I have an american friend who's going over on a tour of duty to iraq... I really don't wanna see him in any action and I don't want to see the loss of life. But it's plain and simple people dipolmacy rarely works when the governments are corrupt. What I don't like is the fact that after the US is done there they probably won't reestablish a government based on decent values and have a non corrupt government... if there is such a thing. The problem with ousting sadam and making a domocricy is that then the people will elect a muslim government, acctually they'll elect a muslim extreamist government. The people of Iraq are not well educated and in muslim socity any suggestion that anyone aside form america or those far off Christians... cause some how everyone who's not muslim is either Christian or Jew to them, isn't muslm is a tabboo.
Serious just watch soon after Sadam falls you'll see a new gov take over and in ten years it'll be another Taliban... why is this able to happen? Two reasons.... these people live by a Koran they can't even read themselves often. And they're taught to trust their religious leaders... and uhh... most religious leaders who follow the Koran don't have the same care for humans that most other major religions have... why do you think of all the major violent groups in the world the majority are Islamic... look at the palistine conflict, the Taliban, Al Quida etc.

The problem with France and Germany's stance is they don't want war they simply care about getting more oil and what not after it's all over, and they probably think if america controls that region then the oil will cost more... basically it helps their economy if they don't go to war.

But I wish the americans would stop talking about WW2 as if they did something amazingly awsome by joining... they did what they should have done two years before. Hitler would have been crushed much faster if the americans had joined instead of letting the british, french, canadians, australians, indians, and other groups kill all their soilders first.

Not that america didn't do ANYTHING they did stuff like leave air planes convineitnly just beside the Canadian boarder and what not... but ultimately the US had to get attacked first... just like everyone else.

The only people who can point fingers at anyone else when talking about WW2 are the polish.
heh

Yeah uh... War with Iraq may not be favorable... and there's no way to clean it up well... but ultimately if you can't save the country you can at least protect your own.

The reason also why france and germany havn't cared is because no one's done anything to them in a LONG time, if the Ifel tower had been hit by a 747 I can garuntee you france would be up in arms even more than america is.

vinster · Jan 22, 2003, 05:20 PM

Mods,

Please move this to the lounge...

slffl · Jan 22, 2003, 05:33 PM

I'm against a war with Iraq, but I am for eliminating Sadam Hussan. And if you saw the biography "Why can't they kill Saddam", I have a feeling you would be too.

jasong · Jan 22, 2003, 06:03 PM

I hope Europe (esp. France and Germany) will have the guts to slow down or stop the American and British war machine

That's a laugh. When was the last time France had the guts to do anything?

-- Jason

skyman · Jan 22, 2003, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by moowriece:
A Iraq war could have some significant delaying influence on the deliverance of our new 12" and 17" Powerbooks! The international traffic will be strained in a war situation and very tensefull.

BTW off-topic: as a European I am apalled by the war mongering sounds in the White House!! I hope Europe (esp. France and Germany) will have the guts to slow down or stop the American and British war machine (it seems they plan to do so). Join the worldwide protests on February 15th! War is bad for the economy and world stability and peace and certainly will make our PowerBooks less powerful than they should be!

This is a forum for PowerBooks NOT POLITICS!!!!!

k2director · Jan 22, 2003, 06:26 PM

To make a half hearted attempt at staying on topic:

I don't think there will be any appreciable shipping delays on PBooks if there's a war in Iraq.

Now, back to the more interesting conversation:

The problem with ousting sadam and making a domocricy is that then the people will elect a muslim government, acctually they'll elect a muslim extreamist government. The people of Iraq are not well educated....

Actually, the Iraqis are some of the most moderate muslims in that region and also relatively educated by the standards of the area. Before the Gulf War, Iraq had money coming in from its large oil reserves, and that powered a fairly modern society (they would have been even better off without the fruitless Iranian war...another gift from Saddam to his people). If Iraq didn't have Saddam, was suddenly welcomed back into the world community, had oil revenue coming in and some foreign loans and investment, it could thrive. And that's hardly an environment for Muslim extremism to take root. Also, the Iraqi's character doesn't lean towards extremism--for instance, women have jobs, go to school, and are much more accepted in society in general.

A new government in Iraq would be by no means perfect. I personally wonder if any of those Middle East populations, given the long heritage of tribalism and the fact that human rights and the rights of the individual have not been themes throughout their history, could handle democracy (at least immediately). But the Iraqis would nonetheless get a better government after a war with the U.S. (certainly more opportunities for peace and economic development), and the world would have one less unstable despot to worry about.

ebisix · Jan 22, 2003, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by moowriece:
A Iraq war could have some significant delaying influence on the deliverance of our new 12" and 17" Powerbooks! The international traffic will be strained in a war situation and very tensefull.

BTW off-topic: as a European I am apalled by the war mongering sounds in the White House!! I hope Europe (esp. France and Germany) will have the guts to slow down or stop the American and British war machine (it seems they plan to do so). Join the worldwide protests on February 15th! War is bad for the economy and world stability and peace and certainly will make our PowerBooks less powerful than they should be!

I believe this forum is:

MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > PowerBook

I don't see anything about war with Iraq in that title, do you?

all2ofme · Jan 22, 2003, 07:07 PM

Mods? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease!

lokjah · Jan 22, 2003, 07:14 PM

i tried to catch it early...

i tried....

*yawns*

l�k

all2ofme · Jan 22, 2003, 07:28 PM

A valiant effort it was, too...

Flowbee · Jan 22, 2003, 08:00 PM

And while we're on the subject... I think the Raiders are going to kick some TB butt this weekend!!

(Maybe THAT will get the mods to move this thread

)

voodoo · Jan 22, 2003, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by Flowbee:
And while we're on the subject... I think the Raiders are going to kick some TB butt this weekend!!

(Maybe THAT will get the mods to move this thread )

RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! RAIDERS !! Yay RAIDERS !!

ThinkInsane · Jan 22, 2003, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by moowriece:
A Iraq war could have some significant delaying influence on the deliverance of our new 12" and 17" Powerbooks! The international traffic will be strained in a war situation and very tensefull.

BTW off-topic: as a European I am apalled by the war mongering sounds in the White House!! I hope Europe (esp. France and Germany) will have the guts to slow down or stop the American and British war machine (it seems they plan to do so). Join the worldwide protests on February 15th! War is bad for the economy and world stability and peace and certainly will make our PowerBooks less powerful than they should be!

You are getting way to annoying.

Mac Zealot · Jan 22, 2003, 09:03 PM

YOU SUCK!

Mister Elf · Jan 22, 2003, 09:19 PM

sorry for starting the flame war...not the best first post, was it?

rampant · Jan 22, 2003, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by PHoynak:
Would you rather let that SOB keep his bio/chem weapons and threaten us? His goal is to kill Americans or our friends. America has the right to defend itself and protect our national security. The next time Europe needs us to save their assess fat chance.

Sorry for the rant.

When has he threatened us? The only one doing the threatening is us, if you haven't noticed.

siflippant · Jan 22, 2003, 09:40 PM

do you think osama will go for the 12inch PB so he can do his calculations for terrorism on the go? And look what he could do with iLife... iMovie 3 for sending out propaganda messages

rampant · Jan 22, 2003, 09:43 PM

I'll fly a plane into MacNN.

Mister Elf · Jan 22, 2003, 10:07 PM

not exactly funny anymore...

MindFad · Jan 22, 2003, 10:09 PM

********* Just testing. Yep, OMG.WTF.BBQ still filtered. Lame0rz.

tintub · Jan 22, 2003, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by PHoynak:
Would you rather let that SOB keep his bio/chem weapons and threaten us? His goal is to kill Americans or our friends. America has the right to defend itself and protect our national security. The next time Europe needs us to save their assess fat chance.

Sorry for the rant.

from iraqnn.com:

Originally posted by Ali bin Hoynak:
Would you rather let that SOB[Bush] keep his bio/chem weapons annd threaten us? His goal is to kill Iraqis or our friends. Iraq has the right to defend itself and protect our national security.

Iraq has not threatened the US. Saddam is evil, corrupt, but the same is true of many world leaders that the US is doing nothing about. How many African leaders are 'on the level'? Shamefully, Britain and Australia are backing Bush purely to keep the US on side. I am glad that other countries are taking a stand on the matter.

How about we send UN weapons inspectors into the US? A lot of nations feel just as threatened by US nuclear capabilities as the US does by Iraq.

Imagine you had the misfortune to be born in Iraq rather than comfortable America. Sure life under Saddam isn't great, but imagine knowing that the Americans are coming to bomb you imminently. Sorry, FREE you.

Americans take many liberties for granted that Iraqis don't have. They often use this as a justification for war against Iraq/Afghanistan ('we are freeing them against oppression'). Imagine some all-powerful country with even more liberties (legalised drugs, prostitution, no death penalty) came to FREE Americans, killing thousands of civilians in the process. I don't think you would be TOO excited.

Mister Elf · Jan 23, 2003, 11:20 AM

why would the UN send weapons inspectors into the US? everyone nows that we have weapons of mass destruction, and a lot of us in the US feel a lot safer in our beds at night knowing that we have these weapons in case some foolish country gets ideas and starts nuking us.

Mister Elf · Jan 23, 2003, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by moowriece:

BTW off-topic: as a European I am apalled by the war mongering sounds in the White House!!

I hope Europe (esp. France and Germany) will have the guts to slow down or stop the American and British war machine (it seems they plan to do so). Join the worldwide protests on February 15th! War is bad for the economy and world stability and peace and certainly will make our PowerBooks less powerful than they should be!

also, about the economy, war is very good for it. What do you think got the world out of the Great Depression?

delbosque · Jan 23, 2003, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by PHoynak:
Would you rather let that SOB keep his bio/chem weapons and threaten us? His goal is to kill Americans or our friends. America has the right to defend itself and protect our national security. The next time Europe needs us to save their assess fat chance.

Sorry for the rant.

WHO has the biggest arsenal of chemical&biological weapons??
WHO is actually threatening, ans WHO is a threat?
Guess.
Not only the U.S.A. has a right to defense their borders and integrity. There are more countries and states who have the same rights. Probably you can't imagine ?
Do you really think that the U.S. saved the european ass in ww2 for nothing, just for being a "samariter"??
Look at the history of the U.S.: They sunk the Main in 1898 just to get to war with Spain; the rst of the story (WW1, WW2) is well known. And it isn't "conspiracy"; just facts.

Think-it over, WHO is the real threat?

Mister Elf · Jan 23, 2003, 11:38 AM

that's the Maine, and it was deterimined by INTERNATIONAL scientists that the magazine lit off during an accidental fire...why the hell would we sink our own ship?

oh, also, the whole united nations should be mobilizing for war with saddam, since...oh, my, he's violated twelve years worth of legislation tha told him to cooperate...and has done nothing. I would also remind you that our president. nlike iraq's, has no history of slaughtering innocent people.

typoon · Jan 23, 2003, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by moowriece:
<off-topic>
Europeans and with us the majority of the world (ask e.g. Russia, China or Canada) want the UN-inspectors have their way and resolve the Iraqi issue peacefully. War is not going to solve it, but worsen the situation. Iraq is not a threat. International terrorism is. Some Americans tend to think in black-white, especially the American media are very one-sided (they didn't even cover the anti-war demonstrations in the US the first time). Lots of Americans I know do not agree with George Bush but they have been silenced so far (unpatriotic?). Let them speak out and join the rest of the world before it gets too late.
</off-topic>

They've had 12 years to try and resolve this issue peacefully. When the instpectors were kicked out the first time no one made a big stink about it. They just gave them a slap on the wrist. The second thing is that according to the FIRST UN resolution that they had after the gulf war Iraq was to disarm. They have been shooting at allied aircraft for the past few year breaking the terms of the cease fire. France and Germany are like many of the other liberals in this country let's appease them a little longer and hope they listen to us.
I think the reason France doesn't want war with Iraq is more because they would have more to lose in trade with Iraq than the US or Britan.

typoon · Jan 23, 2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by delbosque:
WHO has the biggest arsenal of chemical&biological weapons??
WHO is actually threatening, ans WHO is a threat?
Guess.
Not only the U.S.A. has a right to defense their borders and integrity. There are more countries and states who have the same rights. Probably you can't imagine ?
Do you really think that the U.S. saved the european ass in ww2 for nothing, just for being a "samariter"??
Look at the history of the U.S.: They sunk the Main in 1898 just to get to war with Spain; the rst of the story (WW1, WW2) is well known. And it isn't "conspiracy"; just facts.

Think-it over, WHO is the real threat?

Who rescued/liberated the French and lost many lives in the process. If it wasn't for the US and the Allies France would be part of Germany.

Yes the Rest of the story is well known. Most of it contains the US helping out everyone else in the war.

xi_hyperon · Jan 23, 2003, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by moowriece:
A Iraq war could have some significant delaying influence on the deliverance of our new 12" and 17" Powerbooks!

<deliverance>You sure got a purdy laptop... </deliverance>

PHoynak · Jan 23, 2003, 12:06 PM

Don't you think that if Iraq given the chance to use a WMD against the US he would pass it up?

I personally think that North Korea and Iraq are somehow connected. Who knows if they gave Iraq a nuke or not. We know he has chem and bio weapons. They did a mock attack against the USA a few weeks ago (saw Rumsfield speech about it). The results did not look good. It makes Sept 11th look like a pin prick. If we do nothing he will stike out again, against Israel, Kuwait, us. Can we afford to let him have another chance?

However if there is a war I think the Powerbook shipments will not be delayed. I don't think any components come from the middle east anyway.