[wuzup101]

Just wondering guys, but do you all think that there's a slight chance that apple might put the 2 button trackpad/mouse out with the new line of G5 powerbooks whenever they come out. I obviously wasn't expecting them to come out in a rev of the current books - but with a entire new design do you think apple could maybe work them in. I love sidetrack, but for some reason I'd rather have a right/left click button insead of using a corner of my trackpad to right click. What are your feelings?

[ibook_steve]

As long as Steve Jobs is CEO and Johnny Ives is in charge of ID, I'd say probably maybe possibly the day after little piggies start flying a circular pattern around Infinite Loop. In other words, don't bet on it.

Steve

[wuzup101]

Damn... I mean I know "tradition" is one thing. But, I'm sure apple could come up with some way to make a two button mouse look like a totally revolutionary new feature. I guess as long as we have things like sidetrack we'll be okay. I have gotten used to using the trackpad for the right click (with sidetrack); however, it would be so much easier just to have two buttons, especially because the OS does take advantage of two buttons.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by wuzup101:
I'm sure apple could come up with some way to make a two button mouse look like a totally revolutionary new feature.

If Apple did come out with a multi-button mouse, the faithful would probably try to argue that the likes of M$ and Logitech have been copying Apple's multi-button design for the last 15 years.

And there you have reason number one why Apple will never design a mouse with more than one button; it will be difficult to argue that Apple isn't copying M$.

[Link]

Apple wouldn't be copying MS, there's been quite a few implementations of multi-button mice over the ages.

You give MS too much credit.

[Dog Like Nature]

Ouch! This topic has been talked to death!

There'll never be an Apple Laptop with two buttons because it ruins the simplicity of the UI for novices. Are we going to have two unnamed buttons, or do we put "L" & "R" on top? Yuck!

There should never be a requirement (in the UI) for more than one button. Any apps that put functionality in context menus exclusively need to be rewritten!

[LORL]

Has anyone ever thought that maybe, just maybe, a one button mouse makes more sense from an UI standpoint?

I can't tell you how many times I have sat on the phone with technical support problems and have had to keep repeating, over and over, "No, the other button. No, not the left, click it with the right, then the left..."

See, there is absolutley no confusion when you only have one button to click. Frankly, the only thing Apple should do with thier mice is give them scroll wheels.

When you force developers to deal with a one-button mouse, suddenly they stop dumping all their options into right-click contextual menus. It causes people to actually think about the way they are designing their interface. It creates a more cohesive software community.

And, if you simply can't handle it, since when couldn't you plug any standard USB mouse into your computer? For all of us that care about UI design and good ol' mum and pup computer users that enjoy simplicity, leave the 60-button Windows mice out of Apple.

(On another note, let's quit the 12-year-old M$ junk. Apple is a corporation seeking the big mighty dollar just as much as Microsoft.)

[all2ofme]

I think that saying that a one button mouse is poorer from a usability point of view is failing to acknowledge the *benefits* of being able to do things more quickly with two.

It's akin (in my mind) to saying that things like multi-speed windscreen wipers are a silly idea because they add complexity. Capabilities, whether in software or hardware, often (though not always) add a certain degree of complexity in order to satisfy a user's need. Would it be sensible to argue that a single-speed wiper is adequate?

I agree that apps that don't allow for access to contextual menu items in some other way should be written differently.

I also agree that it's a good option to be able to plug in a two (or more) buttoned mouse. But on a laptop don't you think that this is a bigger issue than having people understand the difference between right and left buttons? People can generally handle the idea of single or double clicking, yet Apple could equally have done away with that years ago. Would that have been a good idea?

But having to explain to my parents that they should click and wait for a contextual message to appear is silly.

Having to explain that the alternatives are either holding down the CTRL key at the same time or plugging in a two-button mouse is also silly.

"Hold on, I'll just put the phone down so that I can press CTRL with my other hand". Silly.

If users only clicked around in the Finder then I would agree that a single button would be adequate for (almost) everything. But they don't, and keeping with the single button is too big a tradeoff as a result.

IMHO

[NeutronMonk]

I, for one, think that the new scrolling trackpad function on the powerbooks is quite significant for Apple. This is the first time that Apple has even acknowledged that another interface even exists, and might even be useful. I wouldn't be at all surprised by Apple finally introducing more sophisticated input devices, especially considering the push for "switchers" that Apple is persuing... the biggest "Huh?" that I get when Windows people see an Apple machine at a store is the one-button-no-scroll-wheel-mouse. I see a tiny crack in the dam...

[LORL]

I think while their are many different views on this, one thing is most important.

It really doesn't matter

If you like the idea of a one-button mouse, fine. If you don't, buy a two-button mouse. Apple has made it equally easy to do either.

This discussion is especially irrelevent to Powerbooks, since they don't include a mouse anyway.

With applications that create a tap right-click, who cares. I know I personally don't use my trackpad that much, and when I do, I use Sidetrack anyway. My only complaint is that they felt the need to start charging for it, so maybe Apple can go ahead and put it into OS X.

[schuey100]

http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/ne...ouse_01280820/

[schuey100]

and I think they're right to keep with the one button mouse and agree with 100% the author says!

[MORT A POTTY]

if you want/need more than one button, then buy a third-arty mouse. simple as that.

why do you think I have a Logitech MX 1000 right next to my Apple Keyboard? Apple makes fantastic keyboards, but the mouse.... no.

you do have a choice, make it. It won't affect me one iota if Apple releases a two button mouse with scroll wheel, because I have eight buttons and love and use them all.

besides, if they released a two button mouse with scroll wheel at this point it would just be too little too late to matter.

EDIT: and now that I've went back and read that article, I (obviously) agree with the author 100%

[wuzup101]

Originally posted by LORL:
I think while their are many different views on this, one thing is most important.

It really doesn't matter

If you like the idea of a one-button mouse, fine. If you don't, buy a two-button mouse. Apple has made it equally easy to do either.

This discussion is especially irrelevent to Powerbooks, since they don't include a mouse anyway.

With applications that create a tap right-click, who cares. I know I personally don't use my trackpad that much, and when I do, I use Sidetrack anyway. My only complaint is that they felt the need to start charging for it, so maybe Apple can go ahead and put it into OS X.

Sidetrack is a great little program indeed. I also used it. BTW, as the origional poster, my point is very powerbook relevent - unless you know another way to integrate an extra button into the current trackpad that you'd like to share. Now I knnow I can always buy a mouse with more than one button, and in fact I do have one with multiple buttons. However, that doesn't work in all situations. I can't bring my mouse to class with me, as there's barely room for my notebook on my lap/desk. In these situations it would be of great benifit.

Now I did read the article that was linked, and I do agree with a lot of it. I don't like when devs just dump stuff in the menu. However, some things I like to be able to do (copy/paste for instance) when I only have one hand free... happens a lot when I'm on the phone or what not. If apple doesn't want you using a one button mouse, than they should just disable the contextual right click menu all together and force devs to use other more thought out interfaces. However, typically in programs the devs don't just dump stuff there. There's usually a keyboard shortcut or menu for it also. However, it's there b/c right click (if you have a two button mouse) is easier to use in many instances that hitting a hot key combo (especially if you're working with one hand on the mouse already).

I don't agree with the consumers being stupid thing here. Okay so they are, but most of them buy 2 button mice for their macs anyway. I bet 90+ percent of the new mini converts will be using 2+ button mice. Not that it matters b/c we were origionally talking about a trackpad on a PRO LEVEL machine. Powerbook users should be smart enough to know right from left click - it's not that hard. If you can't tell the difference then you should sell your machine and move to something more your speed. My 13 year old brother knows what right click does - please tell me you all do too.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but if apple wanted to stick with the one button mouse one would think that they wouldn't have integrated the two button mouse into the OS. I mean they do want every piece of the market share they can get don't they? Why not satisfy people? BMW wouldn't add a new feature to their 3 series and then make you press 3 buttons to activate it beacuse they wanted to keep their interface simple. They are in effect just making it more complicated.

Anyway I do love OSX, and I don't have any major gripes with my powerbook. I love it. I'm just saying that since so many people use sidetrack or external 2+ button mice, apple might want to get on the stick and give us what we want.

[markponcelet]

Originally posted by LORL:
Has anyone ever thought that maybe, just maybe, a one button mouse makes more sense from an UI standpoint?

I can't tell you how many times I have sat on the phone with technical support problems and have had to keep repeating, over and over, "No, the other button. No, not the left, click it with the right, then the left..."

Oh, man, you got that right.

I work on the phones supporting PCs. Smart people and dumb people alike always get the mouse button wrong. It doesn't matter what button you're telling them to press, they are going to hit the wrong one.

It's getting so bad that I've made a game of it. I tell them to left-click on an icon in the task bar. When they tell me that a contextual menu has come up, I say, "No, your other left."

Only now, I've said that so many times that the joke's actually getting old.


My vote? One button is better, especially since you can click and hold to trigger the right mouse button. Those who really use the right mouse button a lot will find a way to get one. Either they'll buy another mouse or they'll get a driver to enable one on the trackpad.


Mark

[TailsToo]

Maybe they should have a one button "starter" and a multi-button pro?

[Simon]

Originally posted by TailsToo:
Maybe they should have a one button "starter" and a multi-button pro?

They do.

The one button starter is the mouse in the box.

The multi-button pro is the Logitech MX900 Bluetooth or Logitech MX1000 (wired).

[porieux]

The powerbook could easily have the button subtly divided into two areas, with the default behavior being that both sides do the same thing. One button.

But power users could go into the prefs and set the right side for context menu.

Boom...everyone is happy.

[N.N.]

Actually, I think that Apple pretty much went out of its way already by emphasizing on the Mac mini webpage that "yes, Mac mini will take advantage of your two-button USB mouse"...