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centerchannel68 · Mar 1, 2007, 06:55 PM

I have a 24" iMac, and I'd really like a good review of that eyetv thingie, preferably something along the lines of an arstechnica review, where they somehow measure the lag, if any. All I can find are people saying 'yeah it works okay' and that's it. Well, sure... I've seen people say quake 4 runs 'okay' on a macbook, but that doesn't mean it's usable.

Anybody know of any, or care to elaborate on testing such a device?

centerchannel68 · Mar 2, 2007, 06:41 PM

Hello?

besson3c · Mar 2, 2007, 07:09 PM

I honestly wouldn't recommend touching those kind of Mac-centric products since the Hauppauge products work so well and cost so much less. There are a ton of people using the Hauppauge capture cards, you should have no problems finding a review if you decide to go that route... It would require either running Windows or Linux/Unix though, I don't know if that is an option for you.

What are you hoping to do anyway?

::maroma:: · Mar 2, 2007, 07:09 PM

Google much? Just search for EyeTV review and you'll find plenty.

centerchannel68 · Mar 2, 2007, 10:10 PM

Well, I don't want to capture anything, I just want to be able to use my PS2. I've found lots of reviews by using google, but none actually 'measure' the lag to see if it has any. Some places claim the EyeTV EZ is the one to get for gaming, because the non hardware encoding= no lag, and if you get the EyeTV 250, gaming mode turns off the hardware encoding anyway so you might as well buy the other one. Other places say there is noticealbe lag when playing games. Other places say it doesn't work at all with games that get FPS over 30. It's just that all these damn reviews contradict each other and don't tell me anything. Is it laggy, or not? Again, I have no interest in capturing video. I just want to use my 24" iMac's LCD as a monitor for my PS2.

centerchannel68 · Mar 4, 2007, 02:08 AM

Anybody? Has nobody done a real test of this then?

onlyone-jc · Mar 4, 2007, 10:36 AM

I've can't give you the exact millisecond figure of how much latency there is, but there is definitely an issue concerning the synchronisation between video and audio, although it is usable. What I will say though, is that you shouldn't expect very good picture quality. This is not something to do with the EyeTV software, but rather the fact that you're using an LCD. Your video input is likely to only support resolutions up to 720×576, and if you want to view it full-screen, you're then going to be stretching that right the way up to 1920x1200. This is a huge stretch, and so you'll probably find that it will look blurred, and interpolated. Changing your LCD's display to a smaller resolution won't help either, since, by the very nature of how LCD's work, they only tend perform optimally at their native resolution. If you want crystal clear results, you should use a tube-based display (i.e. a CRT/Television).

My experience comes from using an Elgato EyeTV Hybrid and a PS2, with video fed in via its composite input, and audio fed in via its audio input. So, I can't comment on any other device.

You may get better results concerning video and audio synchronisation if you route the audio in via an independent sound card. Although, I've not tried this as of yet.

Good luck,
onlyone-jc.

centerchannel68 · Mar 5, 2007, 12:19 AM

Argh. Why the hell can't apple throw a ****ing input on the imac? That totally blows that there's lag, especially when EyeTV talks it up like it's lag free. What a load of crap. God I'm having a great day.

centerchannel68 · Mar 6, 2007, 11:04 PM

Can you do a screenshot for me? I'd like to see how bad it looks.

centerchannel68 · Mar 9, 2007, 12:46 AM

Bump.

onlyone-jc · Mar 9, 2007, 05:14 AM

Sure, I'll do one later for you.

onlyone-jc.

onlyone-jc · Mar 9, 2007, 12:41 PM

[Link]

As you can see, it's pretty blurry. That's at 1680x1050. So, on a 24" iMac, it may look worse.

I'm not sure why it only receives a 4:3 picture (hence the huge black border), since I can get a 16:9 picture on my television.

This is a PS2 fed in via the Composite input on an EyeTV Hybrid. Via S-Video may improve it slightly, but the standard PS2 cable only has a Composite output (at least, mine does, anyway).

All encoding/decoding is done via software with the Hybrid, so you may have better luck with one of the EyeTV hardware units with on-board processing.

Good luck,
onlyone-jc.

anthology123 · Mar 9, 2007, 01:03 PM

I run the Miglia MiniHD with EyeTV software and it runs great. The picture is very good, and it transfers to DVD with no problems. I even save to an external firewire hard drive. I do notice a delay in time between it and the analog TV broadcast, but then again, there is also a delay in my friends Pioneer 52" HDTV Plasma, so I don't think that is a factor.

onlyone-jc · Mar 9, 2007, 01:04 PM

Bear in mind, that if you viewed those images at their native resolution (i.e. not stretched up to 1680x1050) on an analogue tube-based display (i.e. a television), you would get great results, since the tube would merely adapt to what it was given (in which an LCD can't do very well, at all). The artifacts are mostly to do with the image having to be stretched/interpolated considerably in order to attain full-screen viewing.

Good luck,
onlyone-jc.

centerchannel68 · Mar 9, 2007, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by onlyone-jc

All encoding/decoding is done via software with the Hybrid, so you may have better luck with one of the EyeTV hardware units with on-board processing.

Although your suggestion makes logical sense, in fact, it's the opposite. The hardware encoding =a solid 2-3 second delay, the software encoding has a lot less lag, and the eyeTV 250's gaming mode is EXACTLY the same thing as an EyeTV hybrid.

centerchannel68 · Mar 9, 2007, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by anthology123

I run the Miglia MiniHD with EyeTV software and it runs great. The picture is very good, and it transfers to DVD with no problems. I even save to an external firewire hard drive. I do notice a delay in time between it and the analog TV broadcast, but then again, there is also a delay in my friends Pioneer 52" HDTV Plasma, so I don't think that is a factor.

Then something is wrong with your friend's TV. There should be no delay, and the delay you are experiencing is exactly what is pissing me off about this entire ordeal. ElGato advertises a "NO LAG" input solution, but they're full of crap, because it DOES have lag. If I had money I'd sue them into teh ground.

vmarks · Mar 10, 2007, 11:56 PM

The hardware encoding alleviates the CPU usage mostly.

Noticing a delay between the HD signal and the analog TV does not indicate anything wrong with the TV - they're two separate signals with two separate means for decoding, and the HD is buffered to a hard drive. HD is an MPEG2 when it's broadcast. Analog is not, unless there's a hardware encoder in place.

The non-hardware encoding solutions do not have a delay- the delay you're noticing is one where there's a hard drive buffer in place. Change the buffer settings in the preferences. It may just be that there's a small amount of time that has to be used to render the raw stream that's being buffered onto the screen. They are using OpenGL for this. It's possible to tell it to use Quicktime.

Open Applications / Utilities / Terminal, and type in defaults write com.elgato.eyetv "use OpenGL" -bool NO
it will shift EyeTV from using OpenGL to Quicktime, and this may help.
To set it back the other way, use Terminal and type defaults write com.elgato.eyetv "use OpenGL" -bool YES

As for audio/video sync, that's software at issue.

Besson3c: the eskape labs hauppauge product is ancient. But here's something you'll find interesting: The Elgato Hybrid is a Hauppauge HVR-950. Elgato Systems shows the Hauppauge device directly below the Elgato device. Same product, rebranded.

centerchannel68 · Mar 11, 2007, 02:24 AM

So you're saying there should be a 'no lag' way to do this?

vmarks · Mar 11, 2007, 10:47 AM

Can you reduce the HDD buffering, and use that Terminal command I've told you to see if it improves?
Which did you get in the end, the EyeTV 250? The 'game mode' is supposed to bypass the encoder chip.

If it does not, and the suggestions I've given you do not, email [email protected]. They'll probably take a few days to get back to you. They don't have a published phone number and don't do phone support.

onlyone-jc · Mar 11, 2007, 11:33 AM

The EyeTV software doesn't allow you to adjust any input buffer settings. The only buffer setting it has, is the Live TV recording buffer, which, although it is a hard drive buffer, has absolutely nothing to do with the inputs.

vmarks · Mar 11, 2007, 12:15 PM

That's correct.

You're right, it isn't applicable to his lag issue here. Still, the terminal command I mentioned should be tried.

centerchannel68 · Mar 11, 2007, 11:23 PM

So the final answer...is..... unclear.

vmarks · Mar 12, 2007, 12:28 PM

I don't know that it is: It is advertised as being a no lag solution for game systems. I've offered you a piece of advice to try if you find that you do see lag. Or, you can contact elgato's support system.

centerchannel68 · Mar 12, 2007, 12:36 PM

I don't have one yet. It's just that any review I read about it posted by REAL people says that there is most definitely lag. Check out "OnlyoneJC" who posted up near the top of this thread.

vmarks · Mar 13, 2007, 12:56 PM

He's not specifically saying there's a video lag, but that the audio is out of sync.

onlyonejc, is the video lagging (shouldn't be) - if there's an audio lag, that's the software. There were a lot of changes to audio in 2.3.3, check out 2.3.1 to see if it's present there as well.

Kenneth · Mar 15, 2007, 12:56 AM

I'm curious. How well will the dual G4 1.25 PowerMac handle 720p/1080i recording?

Uncle Skeleton · Mar 15, 2007, 03:03 PM

HDTV recording is trivial, because it's not encoding anything. It's just downloading a pre-encoded MPEG2 stream from the broadcaster.

Playback might be a squeeze. I'm quite sure you'll be able to handle 720p playback just fine...If you want to try some sample files I can record something and send it to you. PM me.