[analogika]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Why should simple expenditure levels dictate whether someone should be taken seriously about something or not? You could spend that $1200 on a crap preamp, or $300 on a really good one that fits your needs well. Cost basis is a stupid criterion-does the equipment fit the application would be a better criterion.

And suggesting that someone is clueless because they don't agree with you is not appropriate behavior.

Suggesting that someone is clueless because they very obviously have no expertise in the subject they're arguing is NOT a personal attack.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Y3a 

Thats OK.. I NEVER take YOU seriously.

Your other audio statements have verified your lack of experience in actually listening.

I'll bet you've never even HEARD a ClearAudio Cart before. I doubt you hear well at all.

Your other audio statements have verified your lack of common sense and basic fundamental understanding of electricity and electronics.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Suggesting that someone is clueless because they very obviously have no expertise in the subject they're arguing is NOT a personal attack.

Yes it is.

Otherwise suggesting someone is gullible when they spend almost over $500 on a freakin LP cartridge and lord knows what other voodoo audiophile snake oil is not a personal attack.

And sorry, I do have more than the average joe's understanding of audio. Want me to bring up the thread where you were attacking me and Doofy finally understood what I was talking about, yet you still refrain from admitting you know what I mean? I can if you want.

[Y3a]

I stand by my assumption that you don't listen. Just because you have "more than the average joe's understanding of audio" doesn't mean you listen or understand what you are hearing. Guys like you are a dime a dozen, and your kludge speaker is a prime example of why you shouldn't be taken seriously.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Suggesting that someone is clueless because they very obviously have no expertise in the subject they're arguing is NOT a personal attack.

You called someone a name that they didn't like. On these boards that's a personal attack.

[Dakar²]

Only a Marklar wouldn't know that.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by Y3a 

I stand by my assumption that you don't listen. Just because you have "more than the average joe's understanding of audio" doesn't mean you listen or understand what you are hearing. Guys like you are a dime a dozen, and your kludge speaker is a prime example of why you shouldn't be taken seriously.

Kludge speaker? What? And yeah, guys like you are a dime a dozen also. That's why pages like this exist to make fun of you:

http://s88932719.onlinehome.us/audio_bs.htm

[analogika]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

Your other audio statements have verified your lack of common sense and basic fundamental understanding of electricity and electronics.

Remember the "jitter" thing, Rob? I'd tread carefully.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I take it back. That thing is pretty cool looking. I don't own a single LP but I almost want one

[Mastrap]

Yeah, that's a sweet, sweet looking system. B&O made some great looking stereos back in the day. I'd love one of these.

Rob, is that a Craigslist find?

[Oisín]

Meh, we had one of those when I was little. I always thought it was ugly. Liked the 9300 (?) we got later on much better.

(And no, I’m not an audiophile in any way. I do fine with my crappy speakers, and I don’t really care that, for only $700, I could get a set of absolutely fantabulous speakers. My $100 surround set suits me fine.)

[Aron Peterson]

B&O sound systems are worth every cent. I have a pair of their earphones that I paid $180 for. Their visual and telephony products are sh!te though.

[centerchannel68]

Yeah, craigslist find.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

You know that wicked looking 5 disk CD changer they have?



My friends ex had one, I stood in-front of it looking at the buttons and screen for 10 minutes and couldn't figure out how to make it switch disks. I've tried other audio products by them also and it is just a baffling to use as it is so minimal and poorly thought out.

The CD changer looked cool though and it had nice touches of stopping the disk in the same position as it started so you can admire the CD art through the glass. Of course you pay $5000 for a 5 disk CD changer with no MP3 disk support, amp or speakers.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

My friends ex had one, I stood in-front of it looking at the buttons and screen for 10 minutes and couldn't figure out how to make it switch disks. I've tried other audio products by them also and it is just a baffling to use as it is so minimal and poorly thought out.

The CD changer looked cool though and it had nice touches of stopping the disk in the same position as it started so you can admire the CD art through the glass. Of course you pay $5000 for a 5 disk CD changer with no MP3 disk support, amp or speakers.

They have the exact same problem with the sound. Baffling, and poorly thought out, but damn it looks good.

Very strange priorities for a "hi-fi" company.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Alright, I will freely admit to having little to no audiophile knowledge or experience, but what's the feedback on Rega turntables/equipment then? I'm looking hard at a couple used last-model (before the P3) Planar 3s; I wanted to spring for a 5-series but there's no way my fragile budget could handle the strain. I've heard good things, but I'm not too sure if the sticker shock even on a used model would be worth it, considering if I look around I could probably get an entire older B&O system for less than twice as much.

And thoughts/advice?

greg

[centerchannel68]

What do you have for speakers? They're far more important than any other part of the system. They color the sound the most.

[Jim Paradise]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

I think we should rename this forum the MacNN Crybabies with Sand in their Vaginas.

I second this motion, but not because that's what I think of the members.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

What do you have for speakers? They're far more important than any other part of the system. They color the sound the most.

No.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Alright, I will freely admit to having little to no audiophile knowledge or experience, but what's the feedback on Rega turntables/equipment then? I'm looking hard at a couple used last-model (before the P3) Planar 3s; I wanted to spring for a 5-series but there's no way my fragile budget could handle the strain. I've heard good things, but I'm not too sure if the sticker shock even on a used model would be worth it, considering if I look around I could probably get an entire older B&O system for less than twice as much.

Regas are okay turntables. Not great, but pretty useful.

I haven't a/b'ed them, but I'd assume they would bludgeon anything B&O has built in bang for the buck value.

And don't listen to Rob - the turntable/tonearm/cartridge is the most important component of a playback system (after the vinyl itself).

Every component that comes after the vinyl disk will REMOVE sound quality from the original signal. What has been lost early in the chain CANNOT EVER be added back in.

And while it is true what Rob says - that speakers often tend to color the sound the most - that's only really true of awful speakers. If you buy your speakers by PMPO, numbers, the number of membranes studding the housing, wattage rating, and *oomph*, you're buying awful speakers.

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by analogika 

No.

Yes. And doofy agrees with me. You can have the best needle in the entire world, the best amp, and voodoo speaker cables, but if you hook them all up to this:



it will still sound like ass.

Speakers are the most important part.

[analogika]

No, they are not - within limits of course.*

"**** in, **** out" is a universal maxim.

If you take one of these:


And hook it up to your Technics amp and hook that up to $40,000 speakers, it will STILL sound like ****.

If your speakers make anything sound "good", they are BAD SPEAKERS. Hallmark of a GOOD speaker (and, for that matter, any good audio equipment) is that a crap signal will sound LIKE CRAP. That is what "high fidelity" means: faithfulness to the signal.


*) The limits meaning that the components must somehow be in *relative* equivalence. In a system comprised of a $3000 turntable and a $2000 amp, obviously, upgrading the $35.90 speakers is the most important step. And that, I believe, is the part that Doofy was agreeing with you on. I also seem to remember him distinctly agreeing with my assessment that you haven't the slightest clue about high-end audio.

[Oisín]

"**** in, **** out" is a universal maxim.

Is that like the X-rated version of “wax on, wax off”?

[analogika]

I'm not gonna ask what you do in your spare time.









( )

[centerchannel68]

Originally Posted by analogika 

No, they are not - within limits of course.*

"**** in, **** out" is a universal maxim.

If you take one of these:


And hook it up to your Technics amp and hook that up to $40,000 speakers, it will STILL sound like ****.

Depends how you look at it. To me, good = wide range of frequency reproduction at a given amplitude, as close to the original as possible. Thus, the best needle, tonearm, turntable, preamp, and amp in the world will still sound like ass if hooked up to totally crap 1 way or 2 way speakers that have no high end frequencies, and no bass.

Hence, a shittily encoded mp3 at 96kbps will sound pretty good in comparison, if played on a a decent amp with really nice speakers, AS THE FREQUENCY RANGE WILL BE MORE ACCURATELY REPRODUCED. You'll definitely be able to TELL that it's a shitty mp3, but in terms of reproduction, the good speakers will reproduce the original source more accurately than speakers that can't reproduce bass or high frequencies very well.

If your speakers make anything sound "good", they are BAD SPEAKERS. Hallmark of a GOOD speaker (and, for that matter, any good audio equipment) is that a crap signal will sound LIKE CRAP. That is what "high fidelity" means: faithfulness to the signal.

See above. When I said my system makes MP3s sound pretty good, I meant it plays them with lots of high frequncies and low frequencies, and they sound 'decent'. I can definitely tell the difference between an MP3 and a CD, just as I could easily hear the difference between regular RCA cables and optical audio.

*) The limits meaning that the components must somehow be in *relative* equivalence. In a system comprised of a $3000 turntable and a $2000 amp, obviously, upgrading the $35.90 speakers is the most important step. And that, I believe, is the part that Doofy was agreeing with you on. I also seem to remember him distinctly agreeing with my assessment that you haven't the slightest clue about high-end audio.

Yes, because that was my point. Mp3s don't sound THAT BAD when played on a nice system. They sound like MP3s, but they're still okay to listen to.

HOWEVER, what I can't stand are people with discman CD players hooked up to a pair of 1" chromed iPod speakers with a single AA amplifier. They make tons of tinny **** noise, no bass whatsoever, and sound like ass, despite the fact that the source signal (CD) is superior to an encoded MP3.

And if by High End audio you mean the goofy **** like people saying one optical audio cable sounds warmer than another, or having speaker cable with only 90 degree angles helps the sound, then yes, I don't have a clue, because I'm not gullible enough to believe in BS.

[centerchannel68]

So anyway, back on subject, I just got back. I picked up the Beocenter 7700, manuals, and a pair of beovox S55 speakers.... for...uh... $20. F**** TYEAAAHHH!!!!!!!!!

hehehe.


Pics from craigslist ad:



To be fair, the reason we agreed on a lower price was that the woofers are shot on both speakers....the foam surround is badly deteriorated. I'll look into a new suspension kit, or just replace them with something sweeter. It has a couple other issues too, i need to troubleshoot the cassette operation, get the cartridge for the tonarm, and ... well, the real crappy thing is that the red display is slightly glitchy...8s look like 0s, because the middle line doesn't light up, but it does this across the whole display, so I'm guessing it's a connection. I'll keep you guys updated. But still.. even if this thing didn't work at all... $20 is still sweet.

[centerchannel68]

Neat, so somebody somewhere makes refoaming kits:

Beovox S55 refoam project

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Damn, yeah, $20 for a tidy little system like that is absolutely killer. If you can get everything working and keep it under a couple hundred all told you'll have hit a nice retro jackpot.

Me, I've spent the last couple days starting at a Creek 5350 SE integrated amp with the phono upgrade for $1100. Oh, to have money. *sobs*

greg

[centerchannel68]

Just get cheaper vintage stuff. It's still cool.

[centerchannel68]

So does anybody know if I can use any P-mount cartridge? It seems like it'd be the same thing:

Replacement New Turntable Cartridges / Stylus / Needle / Needles for Stereo Turntables for sale.

B&O doesn't use proprietary cartridges do they?

[analogika]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

And if by High End audio you mean the goofy **** like people saying one optical audio cable sounds warmer than another

Do you really want to break out the subject of jitter AGAIN, Rob?

You got your ass sorely schooled on that one last time.

Other than that, I won't comment, other than to say that you got a killer deal on that Beocenter. Definitely try to keep it original, if at all possible - i.e. get the speakers re-foamed rather than replacing them with something, er, "sweeter".

[centerchannel68]

Think so? I was thinking that with advances in technology, I'd be able to replace the drivers with something that might improve the sound even more. That said, from my research so far the original drivers are 6.4 ohms... so.... yeah, looks like refoaming is the only way to go. Ever done a set?

[analogika]

Nope...I leave that kind of stuff to experts.

[centerchannel68]

Wuss.

[analogika]

I've seen tonearms killed by otherwise well-coordinated people who removed the cartridge themselves. They didn't notice, but the bearing had a definite grind-notch in it afterwards. $1200 down the drain.

I don't touch the internals of stuff unless I know EXACTLY what I'm doing.

[centerchannel68]

They're just speakers, not rocket science materials. Besides, B&O, while a respected company, is commonly known for going more for style than actual substance, which is why I'm not totally against swapping in new drivers. One question for you: They have dome midranges, but one of them got 'smushed' (I didn't do it!). Now, I know with dustcaps you can use some scotch tape to 'pop' them back out, but so far no tape I have is sticking. Got any tricks? It looks awful.

[centerchannel68]

PS: Told ya it was easy:

http://home.comcast.net/~speakerwork...epair_256k.wmv

[analogika]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

They're just speakers, not rocket science materials. Besides, B&O, while a respected company, is commonly known for going more for style than actual substance, which is why I'm not totally against swapping in new drivers. One question for you: They have dome midranges, but one of them got 'smushed' (I didn't do it!). Now, I know with dustcaps you can use some scotch tape to 'pop' them back out, but so far no tape I have is sticking. Got any tricks? It looks awful.

Apart from that, it sounds quite different.

Only tip I have beyond tape: Suck on it.

[centerchannel68]

Maybe packaging tape would work. Brb.

[centerchannel68]

Dammit. I'm goign to take it apart and see if I can pop it out from behind. Shutup sickos.

[analogika]

Did you try sucking on it? I'm not kidding.

(But do make sure Kristin gets pics of this.)

[centerchannel68]

It's a 3" dome midrange. My mouth isn't that big.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

My mouth isn't that big.

That comes as a bit of a surprise.

[centerchannel68]

har har. So I just found out B&O uses proprietary cartridges. You wouldn't happen to have one, would you Analogika? Because holy crap. They're pricey. I thought it was just a P-mount cart, but nope. It's its own thing.

[analogika]

I don't own any B&O gear, sorry. (I don't own any Bose gear either, for the same reasons.)

[centerchannel68]

yeeaahhhh... this proprietary crap is really annoying. I'm tempted to fix it, and sell it. Erm.... not sure what to do. On one hand, it's uber-badass... on the other it's all proprietary. Thus expensive.

[Y3a]

"Needle" LOL

Perhaps something with a moving Magnet might help?

Q-Tips?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by analogika 

*) The limits meaning that the components must somehow be in *relative* equivalence. In a system comprised of a $3000 turntable and a $2000 amp, obviously, upgrading the $35.90 speakers is the most important step. And that, I believe, is the part that Doofy was agreeing with you on.

I can't remember what I was agreeing with. However, I do seem to remember that it was a small technicality, not any meat and potatoes type argument.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by centerchannel68 

yeeaahhhh... this proprietary crap is really annoying. I'm tempted to fix it, and sell it. Erm.... not sure what to do. On one hand, it's uber-badass... on the other it's all proprietary. Thus expensive.

Fix it, keep it. It'll go only go up in value.

[analogika]

Hence my point about trying to keep it original.