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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > New PowerBook G4 coming?

New PowerBook G4 coming?
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nooon
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Sep 24, 2004, 09:24 AM
 
Quoting MacNews.net.tc:

---

As we've told you in the past, this Autumn will show us another round of PowerBook G4 series. (G5 PowerBooks will come in Spring/Summer 2005.)
According to our sources, there'll be nothing radical about the next upgrade to the PBG4. We'll see the 12" model move up to 1.6 GHz, as well as the lower-end 15" model. The high end 15" and the 17" model will get the 1.8 GHz processor.
All of them are PPC 7448 processors that should run cool enough at these high rates (as cool as current PBs, our sources put it, although we find that not really 'cool' on some occasions...).
The graphics card will be the ATi Mobility Radeon 9800 for 15 and 17 inch models, the 12" will - according to sources - stay at its current nVidia card but lowered in price by 100 USD.

The release date for the PowerBooks has been specified as "mid to end October".

     
metallic
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Sep 24, 2004, 09:37 AM
 
about time when i plan to get one

we shal see i spose.
i want backlighted keyboards on the 12" damnit
i neeeed a gorgeous little metallic silvery tiny cute powerbook...and i want it to have a backlit keyboard
[/mainframe]
     
Halfloaf
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Sep 24, 2004, 09:50 AM
 
Doubt they'll bump the 12" up to 1.6Ghz from 1.33...I think they'll go to 1.5 Ghz first...And the 15" will go to 1.8Ghz...If they can puch the chip that fast. Base 15" will most likely be 1.5Ghz.

Suspect the GPU will get a shove onto the next level...64mb and 128mb.

But then again...It's all rumours as far as I'm concerned!

We'll know when Apple tell us!

-HL
     
EdipisReks
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Sep 24, 2004, 11:16 AM
 
i'll believe it when i see it.
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dwood
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Sep 24, 2004, 11:19 AM
 
Originally posted by metallic:
about time when i plan to get one

we shal see i spose.
i want backlighted keyboards on the 12" damnit
i neeeed a gorgeous little metallic silvery tiny cute powerbook...and i want it to have a backlit keyboard
that'd be suprising if they did, they'd have to re do the case with some venting on the top somewhere and well not really any room on the top case
     
iREZ
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Sep 24, 2004, 11:52 AM
 
I'd like to see the 12" get a bump in GPU too, oh well. Here's hoping in the G5 model (if there is a G5 12" model). Sounds like a pretty good rumor though, but if the G4 hits 1.8 why would anybody go for, what speculation has stated, a G5 1.6 or 1.8, or even a 2.0, and shell out all that cash when a G4 with the same clock speed is almost as fast as a G5?
NOW YOU SEE ME! 2.4 MBP and 2.0 MBP (running ubuntu)
     
wtmcgee
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Sep 24, 2004, 12:35 PM
 
My favorite time of year - rumor season ...

i'm glad we're starting to see ANY info cropping up though, as I am looking into a new 12" pb by mid octoberish. So, I'll most likely just hang on till then.
     
SpaceRockness
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Sep 24, 2004, 01:47 PM
 
Originally posted by iREZ:
I'd like to see the 12" get a bump in GPU too, oh well. Here's hoping in the G5 model (if there is a G5 12" model). Sounds like a pretty good rumor though, but if the G4 hits 1.8 why would anybody go for, what speculation has stated, a G5 1.6 or 1.8, or even a 2.0, and shell out all that cash when a G4 with the same clock speed is almost as fast as a G5?
Thats a great point, I still believe it'll be a mistake for Apple to consider bumping the GPU at the moment considering some of the other choices out there will drain the heck out of the 12" PowerBook's battery or cause heat issues. Other comparable priced PC 12" 'books are still using lesser ATI Radeon Mobility 7500(16-32mb) or intergrated intel extreme graphics(shared memory) so in many ways Apple is still ahead in performance and value. It would be great if Apple used the ATI Radeon Mobility 9200 since its 'slightly' better than the NVidia 5200 esp with Halo but since theres no hardware acceleration of Tiger's new core graphics technology I'd rather have Apple wait.

Anyways I doubt we'll be seeing any new iBooks/PowerBooks next month as the Cram & Jam offer ends Nov 2nd in the UK/Europe markets. We'll probably see eMacs/XServe revisions, Keynote 2.0, AppleWorks 6.3/6.5 updater and then in MWSF 2005 new PowerBooks.

For now I'll have to be happy with my 12" and 15" Alu PowerBooks for 3-4yrs
     
gioele
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Sep 24, 2004, 01:53 PM
 
Originally posted by nooon:
Quoting MacNews.net.tc:
the 12" will - according to sources - stay at its current nVidia card but lowered in price by 100 USD.
s**t still that stupid GPU in the 12"!
If these sources are correct, Apple will put out another expensive toy unable to cope with Tiger CoreImage improvements... nice done
     
Saterik
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Sep 24, 2004, 02:22 PM
 
I hope they bring it out soon if they do.

I need to have a 15inch Powerbook before the 26th of October, so I'm holding off purchasing it now just incase.
     
ibook_steve
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Sep 24, 2004, 02:53 PM
 
Originally posted by gioele:
s**t still that stupid GPU in the 12"!
If these sources are correct, Apple will put out another expensive toy unable to cope with Tiger CoreImage improvements... nice done
The GPU in the 12" today can do Core Image. The only portables that can't are the iBooks.

Steve
     
abo
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Sep 24, 2004, 03:40 PM
 
I'm happy with my 15" Powerbook, but there's one thing which would get me to change - a much bigger driver. 2G would be nice, but I'd want at least 1G. Anyone at Apple listening?

(Which gets me thinking - is it possible to switch the drive on my present Powerbook for one that big?)
     
abo
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Sep 24, 2004, 03:46 PM
 
Sorry multiply my numbers by 1000. I want a 2000 GB disk drive !
     
Halfloaf
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Sep 24, 2004, 04:52 PM
 
Originally posted by abo:
Sorry multiply my numbers by 1000. I want a 2000 GB disk drive !
Biggest disk drive (hard drive) in 2.5 inch format nowadays is 100GB...You're out by a factor of 10x...!

To answer your question....Um...No, they don't make 2000 GB disk drive!

-HL
     
effgee
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Sep 24, 2004, 05:06 PM
 
Originally posted by abo:
Sorry multiply my numbers by 1000. I want a 2000 GB disk drive !
Such drives do not exist - and LaCie's "Bigger Disk" doesn't count because it's 2 HD's in one case.

     
ggirton
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Sep 24, 2004, 05:40 PM
 
Originally posted by abo:
Sorry multiply my numbers by 1000. I want a 2000 GB disk drive !
This is what that funny little plug socket on the side of the computer is for, so you can plug in a bigger drive (firewire). And you know what, this actually works!
a penny here a penny there, pretty soon you're talking two cents
     
pete
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Sep 24, 2004, 06:54 PM
 
I love my powerbook g4 15 but isn't it time for a little innovation in the laptop line? I mean there hasn't been much change for many years, except for cosmetic design, CPU, hdd etc. What about something that really blows us away? Or just something more ergonomic - a detachable LCD or detachable wireless keyboard. I don't know, but it seems things have come to a standstill laptop innovation wise....

Still thinking that pismo was the best laptop every designed.

Oh well..
     
fx9xx04
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Sep 24, 2004, 07:31 PM
 
hope it's the new 9800 mobility from radeon. great card, supposed to be top of the line. if i'm wrong, will someone please correct me
     
JeffHarris
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Sep 24, 2004, 08:41 PM
 
I wouldn't mind replacing my 1ghz TiBook at this point.
The next PB will probably be a minor speed bump as everyone else has mentioned...

I'd like to see...

• Radeon Mobile 9800 w/128MB VRAM.
• A 1.8ghz G4 would be very nice.
• Bigger, faster hard drives would be great. 80GB @ 5400rpm. If only there were 7200rpm drives larger than 60GB. I'd settle for an 80GB.
• I'd love to see Apple bring back the level 3 cache that my TiBook has.
     
SierraDragon
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Sep 24, 2004, 08:45 PM
 
Regarding "...a G4 with the same clock speed is almost as fast as a G5..."

That statement has beem made in this forum but it is NOT TRUE for folks doing heavy graphics, e.g. Photoshop. The throughput of a box architected around a G5 processor knocks the socks off a box architected around a G4 processor. Think about it: if a G4 was just as fast, why bother with all that G5 chip development?

That said, heat/space limitations may well mean that some sort of modern G4 architecture, esp. dual G4, may well optimize throughput for certain laptop price points. If that occurs it will be because of unique constraints of laptop engineering, not because G4 is as fast as G5.
     
shabbasuraj
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Sep 24, 2004, 09:19 PM
 
From AI...

POWERBOOK G5 CONFIRMED!!!

blabba5555555555555555555555555555555555555
     
Luca Rescigno
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Sep 24, 2004, 09:49 PM
 
SierraDragon: You have no proof. I still maintain that the main advantage of the G5 is the higher clock speed it has been able to reach. The G4's development has been slow for some time now, and it's just starting to ramp up again. Apple chose the G5 because it uses the PPC architecture, and because it was available at 2.0 GHz a year and a half ago. If they had stayed with the G4, they would just be hitting 2.0 GHz for the DESKTOPS in the next few months! Huge difference.

Personally, if you take a look at some benchmarks, I think you'll see that the G5 doesn't have a huge advantage over the G4 other than clock speed. Compare a 1.5 GHz G4 to a 1.6 GHz G5, and all other things being equal, there will not be a huge gap.

Anyway, my take on this is that it's great they're keeping the PowerBooks up to date, but the 12" really should get something better. The 5200 isn't the worst laptop GPU ever, and it is slightly better than the 9200 (yes, it IS). But I'm worried that if the 12" stays with the 5200, then the iBooks will stay with the Radeon 9200, and that is a Very Bad Thing because the minimum GPU supported by CoreImage is the 5200. The 9200 is NOT supported. Apple better not ship any systems that can't take full advantage of their current OS. If they allow their stubbornness, of all things, to prevent them from doing that, then I will point and laugh.

If they stay with their current chip makers (i.e., iBooks stay ATI, 12" PB stays NV, and 15"/17" PBs stay ATI), then I think it would be fine to have a 9600 Mobility in the iBooks, an FX5700 Go in the 12" PowerBook, and the 9800 Mobility in the other PowerBooks. The 9600 Mobility is a very good graphics chip but it is a couple generations back, so I don't see why it wouldn't be suited to the iBook. And the FX5700 Go is quite the powerful laptop GPU, but it won't infringe on the higher end 9800 Mobility.

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
striker100
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Sep 24, 2004, 10:09 PM
 
I know I'll sound kind of ignorant about this but I'm sure there are diferences between the G4 and G5 chips other than clock speed. Isn't the bus and the way the G5 utilizes ram much different and improved over the G4?
     
ryju
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Sep 24, 2004, 10:14 PM
 
I still love mine
     
aafuss
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Sep 24, 2004, 11:26 PM
 
Originally posted by shabbasuraj:
From AI...

POWERBOOK G5 CONFIRMED!!!

That's a outdoor stove and no way a Powerbook.

I'd like the iBook at 1.25GHz or 1.33GHz.
Graphics-FX5200 would suit the 12" PB, on the iBook up VRAM of the 9200 to 64MB or perhaps the ATI 9600, if it would run cool enough for the iBook enclosure.
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David Hagan
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Sep 24, 2004, 11:30 PM
 
Originally posted by striker100:
Isn't the bus and the way the G5 utilizes ram much different and improved over the G4?
It appears that even with the G4's choked bandwidth, it still gives the G5 a run for the money in certain instances clock for clock...but the other benefit for the G5 is the 64-bit processor vs. 32-bit. This allows for better memory addressing and is a better in the long term scheme of things.
     
diehlr
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Sep 24, 2004, 11:50 PM
 
Originally posted by aafuss:
That's a outdoor stove and no way a Powerbook.
This guy's quick.
     
Luca Rescigno
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Sep 25, 2004, 12:03 AM
 
No, see, what you do is put the PowerBook INSIDE the stove. In the bottom. Then you set it to run SETI and just cook your brats or burgers or whatever using the heat from the PowerBook.

SEE? IT'S FUNNY!!!!


"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
laseca
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Sep 25, 2004, 01:33 AM
 
Screw the stove, THIS is what I call a G5 Powerbook!

     
sniffer
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Sep 25, 2004, 05:36 AM
 
Originally posted by striker100:
I know I'll sound kind of ignorant about this but I'm sure there are diferences between the G4 and G5 chips other than clock speed. Isn't the bus and the way the G5 utilizes ram much different and improved over the G4?
As long as the G4 isn't doing tasks that chokes the bandwidth it does fairly ok. Also thought the bus speed between the CPU and memory controller is tight, the memory controller speaks to the rest of the system in high speed utilizing the advantage having DDR memory that way. The memory controller lets peripheral devices speak back and forth and to the memory in the same time data is pushed around by the CPU. The G5 doesn't have bandwidth problems, but the advantage is only noticeable when you are doing specific tasks that pushes an amount of data around that would normally choke the bus on a G4. Most tasks won't it appears.

Sniffer gone old-school sig
     
Simon
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Sep 25, 2004, 06:12 AM
 
I would be rather glad to upgrade my 12" 1GHz rev B PowerBook to a new 12".

But if the above rumor is right and the crappy 5200go GPU is left the same I'll actually switch up to the 15" even though I much prefer the 12" form factor. A crippled clock and a crippled GPU is just too much crippling for me to buy the 12". Especially when the 15" screen is much better in angle and brightness.
•
     
MilkmanDan
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Sep 25, 2004, 07:42 AM
 
Maybe instead of complaining that the 5200 sucks at HALO, you should maybe try and improve your skills a bit better. I can still kick all my college buddies butts in HALO with my 1.33 12in, and they often have nice big PCs. (I'm also using a BT mouse. HA) The 5200 does things just fine. WC3, HALO, C&C Generals.

But honestly, graphics cards on laptops will never be where we want them to be because of form, heat, and power issues. Sure, the 5200 does kind of suck in many ways, I'll admit, but it could always be worse. Apple did bump it up to 64 MB VRAM, which helps when I connect my 12in to an external monitor.

A G5 laptop would be nice, for the 64 bit computing, especially when apple releases all these new video editing programs its been bragging about. I would be worried about the heat/ battery life, but I'm sure thats also a major concern for Apple. Bumping the G4 up to 1.6 or 1.8 would be keeping the people happy, as they wait for a year or so before a G5 Powerbook is announced. (I of which wouldn't really want the first revision G5 Powerbook anyhow. Wait for the kinks to be worked out)

So anyhow, we shall all read and post in these forums for the next year and a half musing about when our lives will be completed when apple releases the G5 Powerbook. And we all know that when it happens, someone will post a thread saying "Is the new G5 Powerbook's Geforce9990 256 VRAM Graphics Card Good Enough", to which we will start this thing all over again.
     
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Sep 25, 2004, 08:08 AM
 
lol, nice one MilkmanDan

i have to agree with you, i mean look at the pc laptop camp. they'd be lucky to have a 5200! i just checked ibm.com.au and in their T series (comparable to powerbook), a decently priced model is still using a radeon 7500 (last generation ibook-style). for the same price (~AU$3700), you could get a powerbook 15" with a 9700...

what im trying to say is you have to commend apple for updating their lineup so frequently while keeping them at very competitive prices. i say, lets hear it for apple!

whenever you feel like complaining about apple's 'poor' choice of gpus, just think of those unfortunate pc users... be happy with what you got guys, it is among the best

--
cash
     
opsotta
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Sep 25, 2004, 09:10 AM
 
Few weeks ago I was reading about Motoral talking about a Dual-Core G4 CPU, and they mentioned it together with Apple's Power Books. Any news on that topic?
     
sniffer
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Sep 25, 2004, 09:15 AM
 
Originally posted by opsotta:
Few weeks ago I was reading about Motoral talking about a Dual-Core G4 CPU, and they mentioned it together with Apple's Power Books. Any news on that topic?
We will know more sometime in october when Freescale actually present the technology.

Sniffer gone old-school sig
     
TailsToo
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Sep 25, 2004, 09:16 AM
 
Originally posted by shabbasuraj:
From AI...

POWERBOOK G5 CONFIRMED!!!


Are those Three SuperDrives at the bottom????? SWEET!!!!!
     
nooon  (op)
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Sep 25, 2004, 10:02 AM
 
Originally posted by laseca:
Screw the stove, THIS is what I call a G5 Powerbook!


Hahaha. Now that's nice

     
ndptal85
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Sep 25, 2004, 10:25 AM
 
....you can get a 256mb video card in Dell's Inspiron XPS, their gaming laptop. Its an amazing machine.

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/prod...pecstab#tabtop

Standard: 128MB ATI� MobilityTM RADEONTM 9700
Optional: 256MB DDR ATI� MobilityTM RADEONTM 9800
Main Computer and EyeTV 200 DVR: Mac Mini Core Duo 1.66Ghz 2GB Ram 160GB HD.
Road Warrior: MacBook White 2.0Ghz Core 2 Duo 2GB Ram 80GB HD.
Kubuntu Book: Dell Lattitude C400 running Kubuntu Linux 6.06 1.33 Pentium 3 CPU 1GB RAM 40GB HD with Creative laptop speakers (it only has one speaker).
     
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Sep 25, 2004, 10:33 AM
 
lol, 2 inches thick and >9 pounds?

... not really comparable to a powerbook!

--
cash
     
wtmcgee
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Sep 25, 2004, 10:46 AM
 
if we see a new revision of powerbooks before xmas, i doubt we'd see this technology in them - that's why, as much as I'd like to see new powerbooks released soon (as I have to have one by Nov. 1), I don't think we'll see an update until January.

Originally posted by sniffer:
We will know more sometime in october when Freescale actually present the technology.
     
David Hagan
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Sep 25, 2004, 11:05 AM
 
Apple announces quarterly earnings on September 30th. The cram and jam promo ends September 25th. At present the PowerBook is about two weeks shy of the average number of days between updates. I think it's easy to put the pieces together. One place to watch for signs of a pending update is the inventory of resellers and the Apple Store at powerbookcentral.com.. Currently stock on all models of PowerBooks and iBooks is full.

Now if Apple doesn't release a new PowerBook by the first week of November, then it's safe to say something completely new and different is coming for MacWorld in January. Given Apple's public comments about squeezing a G5 chip into the PowerBooks, they make it sound unlikely that it is coming even by mid-2005. Every other year at MacWorld seems to be the venue where they announce something radically new with PowerBooks (Titanium 2001, Aluminum 2003).

I would say if the PowerBook gets delayed into January, it's likely due to a new enclosure with new features. But I just don't think it will be a G5 just yet. I don't think a dual( or dual core) G4 is coming either. Some of the features we could expect would be improved display technology, better graphics, improved wireless, and of course, faster processors. I'd like to be wrong about it not having a G5 though!

I'm thinking the next PowerBook will have a 1.8GHz PowerPC 7448 (G4). Radeon Mobile 9800, and a faster optical drive for DVD burning. I think these things are a given. What else may lie in store is anyone's guess at the moment. Needless to say there hasn't really been a murmur relative to a PowerBook revision.
     
Luca Rescigno
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Sep 25, 2004, 12:12 PM
 
Actually I really wouldn't mind if the 12" PowerBook got a GeForce FX5200. It's true, that's actually above average as far as laptop GPUs go, and it's a fine match for the 12" PB. My big concern is that staying with the 5200 will cause the iBooks to stay with the Radeon 9200, which as I said is not fully CoreImage compatible. That's bad; Apple should not be selling systems that aren't fully capable of running all the features of their new OS. That would be like if they were still selling Rage 128 iBooks after Jaguar came out. In that case, people were worried that the iBooks wouldn't be Quartz Extreme compatible, but they were updated a few months before Jaguar. Hopefully the current iBooks get a small bump sometime before Tiger.

"That's Mama Luigi to you, Mario!" *wheeze*
     
David Hagan
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Sep 25, 2004, 12:55 PM
 
I think we will have a revision before MacWorld of PowerBooks only because I think this year's MacWorld will be all about Tiger. I think Apple is going to really hype this version of OS X. Just core image, core video, and spotlight are enough to brag about.
     
gioele
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Sep 25, 2004, 02:17 PM
 
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
Apple chose the G5 because it uses the PPC architecture, and because it was available at 2.0 GHz a year and a half ago.
Strictly speaking G5 are not PowerPC but POWER4 chips.
Luckly POWER4 and POWER5 chips are compatible with PPC chips.
     
power142
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Sep 25, 2004, 02:24 PM
 
Regardless of CPU/GPU of the new Powerbooks, I don't think Apple would bring out Tiger and have it run badly on a machine they sell so many of. After all, the new iMac uses a 5200 too, and I just can't believe they'd be so stupid to overlook how well Tiger should run on their most accessible machines.
     
SierraDragon
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Sep 25, 2004, 02:32 PM
 
I bet (literally; I canceled my PB17 order) that high end PBs will be upgraded in October.

- The iMac rocks, and knocks the socks off the expensive top PB. That creates undesirable price lining for Apple, because folks on the margin of needing portability will choose the much more powerful iMac rather than a much more profitable to Apple PB.

E.g. my dad has been using my old Wall Street plus 19" CRT. I was planning on replacing it with a G4 PB plus an LCD monitor. The new iMacs changed my plan; today I am ordering a 20" G5 iMac for my dad. He will use the old G3 PB for those limited times that he needs portability. Net result was that Apple sold a low-margin iMac instead of a high margin PB.

IMO Appple will want to alleviate the power discrepancy between iMacs and PBs as soon as possible, as well as stay competitive with PC offerings. Faster graphics, hard drives, etc. are available now. I will be very surprised if a PB speed bump announcement does not occur in the next 30 days. And if there is no bump, it will mean very good PB things will happen at MWSF.
     
iomatic
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Sep 25, 2004, 02:55 PM
 
I don't know. I've seen the 7447A announced back then, and knew the third iteration of the 12" PowerBooks, and the other two, were definitely coming out. This time, I don't know; have the 7448 even been announced?
     
wilsonng
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Sep 25, 2004, 04:36 PM
 
Howz about differentiating the PB G4 12" from the iBook G4 12" by making it widescreen?

There is a Dell Inspiron 12" laptop with a widescreen with a resolution like 1220 by 800 (or something like that).

the PB G4 12" is the only PowerBook that is not widescreen. I'd say keep the iBooks at the current screen format and make all the PBs with the widescreens.
     
sniffer
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Sep 25, 2004, 05:54 PM
 
Originally posted by wilsonng:
Howz about differentiating the PB G4 12" from the iBook G4 12" by making it widescreen?
While I like the idea, I kind of find it difficult to imagine a smaller wrist area, unless a smaller screen or a wider PB is on your mind.

Sniffer gone old-school sig
     
gioele
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Sep 25, 2004, 09:17 PM
 
Originally posted by power142:
I don't think Apple would bring out Tiger and have it run badly on a machine they sell so many of.
Apple announced the latest iBook with 16MB VRAM few weeks before requiring 32MB for many QE extensions...
So you had a portable able to run QE (as it requires only 16MB) but unable to use 80% of it!

Same will happens if the current nvidia card is going to be sold with future 12" PB.
     
 
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