[mattyb]

OK, swine flu is coming, you have to stay indoors (away from others) for ... 2 weeks.

Lets have some scenarii(Oisin is that correct?) :

2 adults, 2 kids in suburbia
2 adults, 2 kids in centre of a large city
2 adults, 2 kids out in the country

I'm in the 2 adults, 2 kids in suburbia category, what do I need to buy? I've got my own ideas but I'm surely missing some.

BTW : a list from that guy in Tremors is going to far.

[Doofy]

The guy in Tremors ain't going too far.

Dude, it's only two weeks. That's like a normal scenario for me when I'm working - you just buy twice as much at Tesco than you would for your weekly shop.

Three months? Now there's a nice timeframe to work with.

Food - tinned. Storage-friendly raw ingredients (ie., flour, rice). Long-life milk, etc.. Fill the freezer. Buy another freezer and fill that too.
Water - bottled (unless you're into tap water).
Pet stuff - food, cat litter, etc..
Toiletries - soap, tp, etc..
Health care stuff - bandages, plasters, etc..

There's really nothing to it. Just buy more of everything and keep those stock levels up.

[ghporter]

Doofy is on the right track. Food and hygiene supplies, water and meds are a very good thing to have on hand at any time. My family's hurricane kit, always up to date when we lived on the Gulf Coast, consisted of about 1 week's worth of food (typically MREs, which each feed a normal adult doing typical levels of work for two days), plus meds and supplements, plus about 2 days worth of water-with the ability to purify water as needed by carrying a gallon of bleach and keeping coffee filters and empty bottles handy.

Stocking up for being shut in for a couple weeks is, in comparison, easy and comfortable. Do what Doofy says with storable foods and "health and beauty" aisle stuff, and you should be fine.

[mattyb]

Sorry, but I'm not convinced that just buying more of the same stuff is the way to think. Why? Well after a recent storm here in France, several colleagues had no electricity for a few days (one had none for two weeks - but his nearest neighbour is several km away). There was also an issue with no electricity to water pumping facilities.

So (and I've just come back from spending 250€ at the local super market) the stuff that I've (so far) bought can be eaten cold from cans, or heated up using my newly bought camping stove. I have of course bought lots of bottled water and long-life milk. I've bought high calory stuff that doesn't need to be kept in a fridge once opened. I bought rice, pasta, and couscous. I have large cans of fruit, veg etc as well.

I also got first aid stuff like alcohol, bandaids, swabs, hygene stuff as well (think that I read somewhere that is the SHTF situation does happen that detergent type stuff will be a really good barganing tool).

I'm tempted by a small generator but I've got nowhere to stock it - ground floor falt with a small unsecured garden.

ability to purify water as needed by carrying a gallon of bleach and keeping coffee filters and empty bottles handy

You can purify water with bleach and coffee filters ???

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Sorry, but I'm not convinced that just buying more of the same stuff is the way to think. Why? Well after a recent storm here in France, several colleagues had no electricity for a few days (one had none for two weeks - but his nearest neighbour is several km away). There was also an issue with no electricity to water pumping facilities.

If you've just bought a camping stove and you've got bottled water, then you've got no need to worry about the electricity being off for two weeks. As long as you have enough gaz in those cylinders.

To be honest, there's not much more you can do than that. After about a month in suburbia with no electricity or running water then you're at the mercy of the golden horde - the folks who haven't prepared and will be looking to loot your stuff.

I mean, it sounds like you're on the right track and you're looking to get serious but there's only so much you can do short of going extremely rural.

[mattyb]

Well I'll be digging the NBC shelter over our long socialist weekend (May Day don't you know).

I have a firearm (a black powder jobby, that makes loads of smoke and noise and big .44 holes) that I'll be cleaning this weekend. Bring on those looters !!!!

IIRC, there was a guy from Israel on these forums, that posted a picture of his store room or something, I was wondering what sort of stuff he did to prepare - it looked like he had enough stuff for a few weeks. Can't remember who it was though.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Well I'll be digging the NBC shelter over our long socialist weekend (May Day don't you know).

Commie Day, as I like to call it.

Originally Posted by mattyb 

IIRC, there was a guy from Israel on these forums, that posted a picture of his store room or something, I was wondering what sort of stuff he did to prepare - it looked like he had enough stuff for a few weeks.

Dude. Stop with this "few weeks" and "two weeks" stuff. My mum's got enough in to last her longer than that - and all she did to prepare for that was go to Tesco.

Here's some reading for ya for over the weekend (beats going to Barcelona!):
http://www.survivalblog.com/
Read it all. There will be a test.

[Railroader]

We're not survivalists, but here's two walls from our pantry. Almost all of the food in here has expiration dates at almost a year from now. We also have a lot of canned condensed milk and bottle water. I took the pictures a couple minutes ago. (Man, I need to wipe the lens of the phone before taking pictures!!!)



and

[mattyb]

^You da man.

Any chance of a list? The products that you have seem to be from American companies - which we don't have here.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

^You da man.

Any chance of a list? The products that you have seem to be from American companies - which we don't have here.

All of those were given to us. We run a children's group home supported solely on donations. We have a yearly food drive and could not operate without these donations.

Basically, they are all center of the store items. In America the refrigeration units are typically located around the perimeter of the store. The stuff in the middle of the store can last months. Canned items such as pasta sauces, peanut butter, canned meats such as tuna or chicken, crackers, sugars, flour, cereals, dried fruits, canned veggies and fruits, cake and brownie mixes, bottled juices and other drinks, cookies, syrups, spices, oils, salt, ... and lastly, Kraft Mac-n-cheese dinner. When I go grocery shopping I usually just buy fresh meat, fruit, and veggies along with milk, eggs, cheese and other dairy items.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

...
2 adults, 2 kids in suburbia
2 adults, 2 kids in centre of a large city
2 adults, 2 kids out in the country
...

BTW, we are 2 adults, 6 kids out in the country.

We also are very strict about washing hands all the time as the kids attend 3 different schools and we are at church two days a week.

[mattyb]

Cheers Railroader.

[Gankdawg]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

We also are very strict about washing hands all the time as the kids attend 3 different schools and we are at church two days a week.

I don't understand the correlation between washing hands and attending different schools and going to church.

My wife and I have built up about 2 months worth of food. I like the idea of adding another freezer but if we have any type of EMP event, electricity will likely be knocked out and then the freezer food quickly becomes worthless. I'd eat as much of it as I can and probably use trade some of it during the first couple days.

We have a camp stove with several bottles of propane and lots of other camping supplies.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Gankdawg 

I don't understand the correlation between washing hands and attending different schools and going to church.

I think RR was meaning "since we have a lot of contact with a lot of people we make sure to lessen the effects of possible transmission by washing our hands a lot". Or something like that. That's how I read it anyways.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

You can purify water with bleach and coffee filters ???

Rainwater, river and lake water, even pond water can be made safe for human consumption by applying a few (somewhat time consuming) steps. Collect the water and run it through a coffee filter. Repeat at least three more times with clean filters (you can filter 7-10 liters of water per filter). Let the filtered water stand, OPEN TO THE AIR, about 10 minutes between each filtering-this allows particulates to settle making them easier to filter, and aerates the water too.

It's preferable to boil water to purify it-bring the water to a rolling boil for one full minute then let it cool before storing. If you can't boil the water (and if you trust that the source of your water isn't really horribly bad), use 8-10 drops of PLAIN chlorine bleach per 4 liters (my data is in gallons). Stir it in well and let it sit for at least 30 minutes before drinking. If you have to store boiled water for more than a couple of days, use a couple of drops of bleach in the stored water to prevent growth of bacteria.

Here's some "official" instructions on how to do this sort of thing from the US EPA.

[ThinkInsane]

We had our first confirmed case of swine flu in my county yesterday, so I've spent most of the day sitting in the window with a rifle waiting for the looters. I expect they'll be arriving any minute now. On the plus side, when I went to get groceries last night I scored some sweet deals on pork products. It seems pig paranoia is making for slow sales and good deals. It'll take more than some stupid global pandemic to deprive me of my bacon.

I keep a bug-out bag ready for when the SHTF for real, but I'm not ready to head to the hills quite yet. I buy a lot of stuff bulk at Sam's Club, so I have plenty of stock to keep me going for a few weeks if need be without having to break out the MRE's. I've probably got eight or nine cases of bottled water in the storage room and have my water purification stuff in my camping gear.

If it comes down to it, I can always eat the cat.

[Demonhood]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

If it comes down to it, I can always eat the cat.

he's thinking the same thing about you.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

OK, swine flu is coming, you have to stay indoors (away from others) for ... 2 weeks.

Lets have some scenarii(Oisin is that correct?) :

2 adults, 2 kids in suburbia
2 adults, 2 kids in centre of a large city
2 adults, 2 kids out in the country

I'm in the 2 adults, 2 kids in suburbia category, what do I need to buy? I've got my own ideas but I'm surely missing some.

BTW : a list from that guy in Tremors is going too far.

funny enough: my wife and I started working on this a few weeks ago, and THEN saw Tremors again, and THEN this happened. Hmm.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I think RR was meaning "since we have a lot of contact with a lot of people we make sure to lessen the effects of possible transmission by washing our hands a lot". Or something like that. That's how I read it anyways.

Yup.

5 kids x 3 different school with about 200-500 students each + 2 x church attendance of 300-400 people each = a lot of contact with people who didn't wash their hands after using the loo.

[ghporter]

Washing hands regularly and effectively is a great way to avoid all sorts of bugs. Use running warm (it shouldn't be really hot) water, soap up and rub all parts of hands, fingers and wrists for at least 20 seconds. I sing the "ABC" song-it works out to about 20 - 25 sec. Then rinse thoroughly, from wrist to fingers if possible. Dry with clean paper towel and use paper towel to turn off the faucet(s) and open the door.

Wash every time you use the toilet, before eating or preparing food, before drinking anything, and (ugh!) before smoking. And wash after you touch other people, especially their bodily fluids. In some cases, that means washing 20 times a day, but that's a LOT less than a health care professional will in any given SHIFT, so count yourself lucky!

[Chuckit]

How will the flu knock out mattyb's electricity? Is your power grid somehow biological in nature?

[Andy8]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

How will the flu knock out mattyb's electricity? Is your power grid somehow biological in nature?

Could be methane gas power from pig poo perhaps

[olePigeon]

Swine flu is no more dangerous than any other flu. All the media attention is ridiculous.

[brassplayersrock²]

somewhat related: (spoiler due to possible NSFW material)

 

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by Demonhood 

he's thinking the same thing about you.

No doubt. Although he's awfully big and still has all his claws, I can take him. Plus the dog's got my back.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

How will the flu knock out mattyb's electricity? Is your power grid somehow biological in nature?

When the dead collectors are doing the Monty Python bit in the streets of France, who's going to maintain the grid?

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Swine flu is no more dangerous than any other flu. All the media attention is ridiculous.

I'm bookmarking this thread. If this thing kills a bajillion people, I'm so gonna rub your face in that post!

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

How will the flu knock out mattyb's electricity? Is your power grid somehow biological in nature?

When all of the workers dies of the plague, no one will be able to run it.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

How will the flu knock out mattyb's electricity? Is your power grid somehow biological in nature?

He's in France. As soon as one of the electricity company's workers sneezes, all the rest of them will be out on the streets having a bit of a strike demanding that the evil capitalist company owners are shot.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Washing hands regularly and effectively is a great way to avoid all sorts of bugs. Use running warm (it shouldn't be really hot) water, soap up and rub all parts of hands, fingers and wrists for at least 20 seconds. I sing the "ABC" song-it works out to about 20 - 25 sec. Then rinse thoroughly, from wrist to fingers if possible. Dry with clean paper towel and use paper towel to turn off the faucet(s) and open the door.

Wash every time you use the toilet, before eating or preparing food, before drinking anything, and (ugh!) before smoking. And wash after you touch other people, especially their bodily fluids. In some cases, that means washing 20 times a day, but that's a LOT less than a health care professional will in any given SHIFT, so count yourself lucky!

I'm going to top this out with a bit of advice: use SLS-free soap.

I used to use normal soap in the way described above. My hands basically started drying out and falling apart - huge cracks would appear in my skin (which is *not* pleasant when one gets a guitar string caught in them). Since going to SLS-free soap, there's been no further problems.

"SLS?", you ask... Basically, it's engine degreaser which they use as a cheap foaming agent in product which punters expect to foam up. Nasty stuff.

[subego]

With all this fine dining, I'm sooo glad we have that bottle of Pepto.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

"SLS?", you ask... Basically, it's engine degreaser which they use as a cheap foaming agent in product which punters expect to foam up. Nasty stuff.

Do you know how nigh-impossible it is to find laureth-free shower gel?

Sodium Laureth Sulphate gives me itchy skin. Nasty ****. Even in the "skin-friendly" premium products, it's the main tenside - it's just compensated by the addition of cheap oils and even more chemistry.

I have resigned to using SLS shampoo, since the only shampoo sans SLS I managed to find gave me hellish dandruff.

Gotta make sure to rinse well, though, and not have any of the shampoo run down my body when I shower.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Do you know how nigh-impossible it is to find laureth-free shower gel?

Nope, no idea. A chick just up the road supplies me.
Will send you a PM with linky.

[Andy8]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

A chick just up the road supplies me.

Does she have nice boobies?

[ghporter]

Sodium lauryl sulfate or sodium loreth sulfate? Two different surfactants that work somewhat differently. A lot of products have both, by the way...

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Sodium lauryl sulfate or sodium loreth sulfate?

Well, both. SLS and SLES are both nasty stuff.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

A lot of products have both, by the way...

I avoid both like the plague.

[ghporter]

As for "shower gel," I stock up on Ivory soap. "99 44/100% pure" is a great recommendation-it's soap, not detergent, not surfactant, not enhanced cleaning product. It cleans skin and hair (without excess drying), it's cheap and it doesn't stink. You can even use it to wash dishes with it. Our emergency kit includes a few bars of Ivory because it's so useful.

[mattyb]

I wasn't just asking because of (whats it being called now : Swine Flu, Mexican Flu, H1N1, or is it Flu A?) the porcine 'issues', but for a general SHTF situation, hence the loss of electricity angle.

[Eriamjh]

13,000 people died from regular flu since January. Swine Flu is nothing. Just STFU about it and get on with your lives. You're more likely to die from just about anything else.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

13,000 people died from regular flu since January. Swine Flu is nothing. Just STFU about it and get on with your lives. You're more likely to die from just about anything else.

You might want to wait on that assessment until the virus and its spread is sufficiently analyzed.

Spanish flu of 1918 was an H1N1 variant that killed an estimated 20 to 100 million worldwide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

13,000 people died from regular flu since January. Swine Flu is nothing. Just STFU about it and get on with your lives. You're more likely to die from just about anything else.

Reported.

[ghporter]

"STFU" is uncalled for. Let's keep this stuff civil, shall we?

It looks like the virulence of this current flu is not as bad as was feared, and it has not yet (apparently) mutated to be worse. Just because people aren't dropping in the streets like in "The Stand" doesn't mean that this is not still a concerning issue.

[Cipher13]

It's all just media fear mongering, nothing more. The "GEC" got boring.

As for BoBs, I have one ready in my room with enough gear to GTFO and set up shop out back, but with only enough food/water for a couple of days at most. It's the ultralight version.

In my car I have a more comprehensive kit with food/water for a week or more, along with the other essentials.

[Cold Warrior]

Here's something for the bug-out bag:
http://www.511tactical.com/lightforlife.html

The flashlight lasts for hours on a charge, uses no batteries, the energy source will last for a 100 years and it charges in 90 seconds.

[subego]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

2 adults, 2 kids in centre of a large city

I heard a guy discuss hardcore survival shelters. He said the question of bomb shelters always comes up. His answer is "move to someplace that won't get bombed, and build a survival shelter".

This answer to this scenario is basically the same. If the SHTF here, you're the F. Unless you can get to one of the other scenarios before it hits, there's pretty much nothing you can do. We have a bare cupboard because we're a block away from 3 24-hour drug/convenience stores, 13 restaurants and 3 coffee shops. It's a truly unnatural population density, and we're about 3 miles away from the actual "downtown" of the city. If it really hits, we're toast. Pretending that's not the case is a waste of our time and resources. Resources much better spent on a fresh pastrami sammich.



As an aside, the key to a survival shelter is a well hidden ventilation system. Hide it like your life depends on it.

Because it does.

[Cipher13]

Gotta say, that torch is pretty damn cool.

On the ultralight thing, incase people are interested, this is the gear I generally take camping/hiking (very similar to the BoB kit).

* Osprey Stratos 32 (pack) with a 3L Camelbak bladder in the air core (considering getting a Berghaus Munro in addition to that pack, as a permanent BoB).
* Hennessy Ultralite Backpacker hammock (instead of a tent) with Snakeskins.
* Black Wolf 3/4 air mattress (not a comfort thing, but to provide some insulation; without it, hammocks are quite cold in winter).
* Mountain Hardwear Lamina 20 sleeping bag.
* Gerber Freeman Hunter (fixed blade)
* Leatherman Supertool 200
* Some headlamp I picked up for $10
* Maglight (4D) with red light filter and rubber anti-roll crown. It's a bit heavy, but doubles as a weapon you can hold without suspicion.
* Mini custom first aid kit that contains (primarily): ibuprofen, paracetemol, telfast, zyrtec, mersyndol (night), some compression bandages, a triangle bandage, disinfectant wipes, and bandaids.
* Charred cloth in a little tin for fire lighting (fantastic firestarter).
* A few bic lighters and a firestick should I get desperate.

Then of course there's food and additional water and stuff, but most of that fits pretty comfortably in a 32L pack. It's enough to get out of the city and into the bush, and be able to survive a few nights there without freezing to death.

[mattyb]

I didn't really focus on Bug-out-bags because, well I couldn't get enough in one (manageable) bag for the family for more than a day or two. I was thinking of staying put TBH.

Plus I have nowhere else to go.

[ghporter]

"Sheltering in place" is a viable option for just about any situation that does not somehow make "in place" dangerous. Widespread power failures, diseases (truly problematic or not), and so on are great examples, while flooding (when you're in a low area), hurricanes/cyclones, and wildfires are the other sort. For those, you need a few day's worth of supplies and a place to go, along with a way to get there. In hurricane season on the Gulf Coast, it's always a good idea to keep an eye on the weather and when it's iffy, keep fuel tanks pretty much full. Wildfire season, such as in Southern California, is similar, though there apparently aren't the same sort of sheltering preparations set up to receive people who have to evacuate.

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh 

13,000 people died from regular flu since January. Swine Flu is nothing. Just **** about it and get on with your lives. You're more likely to die from just about anything else.

I have received the warning and deeply regret the poor choice of language to assert my position.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

The flashlight lasts for hours on a charge, uses no batteries, the energy source will last for a 100 years and it charges in 90 seconds.

90 second? That's all a raptor needs. You might get to see the flash of his talons... if you're lucky.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

I'm bookmarking this thread. If this thing kills a bajillion people, I'm so gonna rub your face in that post!

Joke's on you. Bajillion isn't a number.

[Zeeb]

Although I think its a wise idea to have emergency supplies handy in case of likely (but usually temporary emergencies) like hurricanes, floods, power outages etc. I don't think it would help much in a true SHTF scenario. If H1N1 mutated into a more deadly virulent strain next flu season and enough people got ill that basic services could not be maintained -- even an impressive food store like Railroaders would not be sufficient over the long term. The fall of society at that point would be more or less permanent.

As a matter of fact, the only likely survivors of such a plague would be those lucky enough to have caught today's less harmful strain of swine flu as that would build an immunity to the horrible version that no one would survive. Anyway, I'm not really interested in an apocalypse that doesn't involve zombies controlled by satellites operated by evil multinational corporations.