[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Stradlater 

I used the same qualifier to merely confirm that this is "usually" the case. Wondering if you had examples or assumed based on rules.

Nothing that's useful on an internet forum. I believe I watched MSNBC or something and I was watching as an officer would put his arm around 2 others for support and then they'd give him a solid 5 second shock (legs=jelly).

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

From HERE



Ignore all of the above.

That's one guy that says he was causing a scene.

There are others that say he was leaving.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

winner

What do I win?

OH GOD NO

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by natnabour 

Ever thought that the reason he wasn't standing is because he COULDN'T stand BECAUSE he was being tasered over & over again? And you hear the cop saying over & over again that if he doesn't stand up, he'd be tasered.....again. Makes absolutely no sense to me.

You've not been paying attention. He is screaming at the cops the entire time, but never says, "I can't stand up up!" If you can't stand up, and you know you're going to get tazed again unless you do, THEN YOU'RE GOING TO SAY THAT YOU CAN'T STAND UP!!! Or maybe you'd rather scream on and on about the Patriot Act.



Another thing that is being overlooked is the effect that the crowd probably had. The situation was only made worse by a bunch of whining college students getting just a few feet from the officers and the tazed student, pressing in and telling the officers that they wanted their information right at that moment. Couldn't have helped the situation...

And, by the way, they did give the students their information after the tazed student was freed.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

That's one guy that says he was causing a scene.

There are others that say he was leaving.

Nobody but shouty little gobshites intent on causing a scene go on about the patriot act in such circumstances.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Nobody but shouty little gobshites intent on causing a scene go on about the patriot act in such circumstances.

I'm not entirely familiar with what a "shouty little gobshite" is, but I can tell that I agree with you wholeheartedly.

It took me a little while to think about the situation and let it sink in before I started siding mostly with the cops, but the more I think about it, the more irritated I get at the nutcase student.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

I'm not entirely familiar with what a "shouty little gobshite" is

You can substitute "very loud clueless lib intent on making a statement" if you like. Same thing.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

You can substitute "very loud clueless lib intent on making a statement" if you like. Same thing.

i.e. my poli sci professor

[climber]

Using a taser to safely affect an arrest of a suspect is one thing, but using it to force compliance of an suspect that is not posing an immediate threat is simply assault and battery.

[andi*pandi]

unbelieveable. unnecessary. unlawful.

he was leaving.

you're a student. you forgot your id and the New Caprica Campus Police tells you to leave. Maybe you're not fast about it, but you leave. As you're almost out the door, the police grab you to pull you toward the door. You're not going to be angry? And then they tase you for being angry?

imagine getting tazed when your only crime is not having student ID on you? what a lawsuit this kid will have.

and jawbone, I could swear I heard him say he couldn't get up, before he got tazed again. He definitely said, "I was trying to leave!"

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

What do I win?

































OH GOD NO

Priceless.

[Teronzhul]

I don't see anything in that video to suggest that he was being violent. He was being disruptive and very vocal, but since when does that warrant being hit with a taser? After the first hit they could easily have drug him outside anyway, definitely without shocking him again for absolutely no reason.

The police were definitely not acting reasonably in my opinion.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by climber 

Using a taser to safely affect an arrest of a suspect is one thing, but using it to force compliance of an suspect that is not posing an immediate threat is simply assault and battery.

I saw some guy get tazed 10 times on the streets of new york and no one cared. This is just hyped up. Yes it can be used to force compliance as far as I am concerned. At least in NY resisting even an illegal arrest is not allowed. Also, I wouldn't try to argue assault in this case.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

he was leaving.

you're a student. you forgot your id and the New Caprica Campus Police tells you to leave. Maybe you're not fast about it, but you leave. As you're almost out the door, the police grab you to pull you toward the door. You're not going to be angry? And then they tase you for being angry?

imagine getting tazed when your only crime is not having student ID on you? what a lawsuit this kid will have.

and jawbone, I could swear I heard him say he couldn't get up, before he got tazed again. He definitely said, "I was trying to leave!"

Yes, I was indeed at Powell Library at approximately 11:30 on Tuesday night, and yes I did see the entire event as it went down.

Let me start off by saying that the guy DEFINITELY was asking to get his *** kicked. He was being extremely rude with the campus patrol guys (who are college students...this was before the real UCPD got called in). He was not complying with their requests to leave the premises, and he was definitely itching for a fight. I actually know the guy and a few of his friends, and I can tell you that he's the kind of guy that loves to make trouble.

This thread is now about completely ignoring the evidence which doesn't concur with one's own viewpoint.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

This thread is now about completely ignoring the evidence which doesn't concur with one's own viewpoint.

You'd think we'd be used to it by now.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by climber 

Using a taser to safely affect an arrest of a suspect is one thing, but using it to force compliance of an suspect that is not posing an immediate threat is simply assault and battery.

If that had been the case, that would be true. The linked video STARTS OUT with the "student" screaming (not shouting, screaming) and not complying with police requests to leave. The student was NOT just leaving, he was behaving as if he might have been on some serious drugs (PCP comes to mind) and thus a danger. If they zapped him several times just because he was being a jerk that would be one thing. He was screaming like he was not in control of himself and behaving in such a way that MADE him a threat.

I've said my say, and now I'm outta here. No more of this third hand speculation crap for me...

[climber]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

I saw some guy get tazed 10 times on the streets of new york and no one cared. This is just hyped up. Yes it can be used to force compliance as far as I am concerned. At least in NY resisting even an illegal arrest is not allowed. Also, I wouldn't try to argue assault in this case.

It is hyped up because it is flat out wrong to use this kind of force as "punishment" for not following orders of a Police officer. Threaten someone and you deserve it, but failing to comply is not sufficient justification.

[climber]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

If that had been the case, that would be true. The linked video STARTS OUT with the "student" screaming (not shouting, screaming) and not complying with police requests to leave. The student was NOT just leaving, he was behaving as if he might have been on some serious drugs (PCP comes to mind) and thus a danger. If they zapped him several times just because he was being a jerk that would be one thing. He was screaming like he was not in control of himself and behaving in such a way that MADE him a threat.

I've said my say, and now I'm outta here. No more of this third hand speculation crap for me...

He was in handcuffs and not a threat when they zapped him the last four times. How is that justified?

[Weezer]

[BREAKING NEWS]: Student to file suit against UCPD

[moodymonster]

at the end of the day whether he is annoying or not, the police have a duty of care toward him, themselves and others - tasing him in these circumstances appears to be inappropriate.

Him being annoying shouldn't be a factor - the police are operating in a professional capacity and their emotions shouldn't be involved.

Using a device that has to potential to kill some just becase they are annoying/disobeying you is not acceptable. If I was dealing with the police I wouldn't want to be working with people like that.

Also how dumb do the cops have to be to do in front of all those people - and threaten them as well, don't they know they're going to be all over the world over the next few hours.

The guy is gonna get compensation

if UK police (or soldiers) did this, they would be prosecuted.

[Chuckit]

The LAPD are kind of infamous for being excessively violent toward minorities. I'm generally inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt, but…yeah. They're clearly tasering a guy who's lying on the floor.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by moodymonster 

if UK police (or soldiers) did this, they would be prosecuted.

And if they don't do this, they become Detective Constable Stephen Oake.

[climber]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And if they don't do this, they become Detective Constable Stephen Oake.

Oh please, show us anyone (including the police) who has stated he was a threat to anyone. They tased him because he refused to get up. That is unacceptable. Unfortunately the Police have a bad history of using this device inappropriately.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by climber 

Oh please, show us anyone (including the police) who has stated he was a threat to anyone.

Ummm... ...Don't LA police tend to view people who won't comply to their orders as threats? You know, in case they're on PCP or something?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

And if they don't do this, they become Detective Constable Stephen Oake.

This is a student who was trying to walk out of a library, proceeded to lie down and, later, had already been tasered and handcuffed. How is that in any way comparable to an officer getting killed by a terrorist with a knife?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Ummm... ...Don't LA police tend to view people who won't comply to their orders as threats?

Do you feel they'd be justified in shooting somebody who smokes within 20 feet of a building? I mean, he's failing to comply with the civil code. Clearly a dangerous individual, there.

[Doofy]

Hmmm... Interesting. This whole thread has brought back memories of this guy, who I used to hang with.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

This is a student who was trying to walk out of a library, proceeded to lie down

Source?

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

1) Awful lot of acting going on from the perp.

2) UCLA? I'd have tasered the lot of them. Everyone. And their moms.

I'd have done it twice - then tased the entire Berkeley campus just for good measure.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Source?

It was posted earlier: [BREAKING NEWS]: Student to file suit against UCPD. Although you can also see it on the video that he was lying on the ground.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Although you can also see it on the video that he was lying on the ground.

Yep, like you can see Rodney King lying on the ground. It's the bit before he hit the ground I'm interested in.

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

This is a student who was trying to walk out of a library, proceeded to lie down and, later, had already been tasered and handcuffed. How is that in any way comparable to an officer getting killed by a terrorist with a knife?

"You'r honor, the defendant, upon being tased once, proceeded to writhe on the ground in a threatening manner, necessitating a second tasing."

One things the cops need to keep in mind is that tasing isn't necessarily always "non-lethal."

According to Amnesty, [International] between 2001 and 2004 more than 70 deaths occurred in the United States and Canada to people in police custody within hours or days of their being hit with a Taser. But in 2005, those kinds of deaths reached 103 just by March. (...)

Link to article, quoted above

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Yep, like you can see Rodney King lying on the ground. It's the bit before he hit the ground I'm interested in.

According to the article, he went limp and lay down as soon as the officers tried to grab him while he was walking out. By no accounts (even the one Jawbone thinks is so earth-shattering) had he tried to assault anyone. He was merely "rude," as we see in the video. Also note that they shot him a few more times while he was on the ground.

So, seeing as the worst accusation against him is that he was "rude," do you think it's OK for the government to taser people just because it doesn't like their attitude?

[marden]

I think we need to look around us. All the signs are there.

There is a global campaign aimed at the West and we have been measured and tolerant and patient and we have been safeguarded from physical harm thanks to the President but the enemy is making non-violent progress as well as waging a violent jihad against the west.

The West is starting to wake up and rise up in all sorts of ways.

The Fox News Channel special OBSESSION was a sign that the MSM was beginning to wake up.

Then CNN aired a special called EXPOSED: THE EXTREMIST AGENDA

And just this afternoon the Dutch decided to ban the wearing of burqas.

Western governments and organizations are starting to wake up and I believe we are seeing the beginning of a sea change, a fundamental shift, a backlash against the liberals and the bashers and the apologists and the, "YES, but..." Muslims and the jihadists. Westerners everywhere will begin acting in their own way as the insurgents have acted in Iraq, to face a common enemy.

The UCLA cops too?

Maybe.

Will everyone act as rationally and as fairly as President Bush has?

Nope. It may be too late now.

The moderate Muslims could have and should have stood up against jihad and for America but they didn't.

Why not look at this guy as being the first stage in our inching toward the kind of thing we've seen in Iraq.


The bodies were dragged in the
streets and then hanged from
a bridge over the Euphrates River.

[Chuckit]

What are you on about, Abe? I seriously have no idea what you're trying to suggest about an American student getting tasered in a library.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

What are you on about, Abe? I seriously have no idea what you're trying to suggest about an American student getting tasered in a library.

It's because of his Iranian decent.

Back to sweeping generaizations.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Rumor 

It's because of his Iranian decent.

Back to sweeping generaizations.

Liberals.

Here's something to help you gain some perspective.

Iran's Ahmadinejad calls for purge of liberal university teachers
Published: September 5, 2006

TEHRAN, Iran Iran's hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad urged students Tuesday to push for a purge of liberal and secular teachers from universities, in another sign of his determination to stamp a strong Islamic fundamentalist revival on the country.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/...sity_Purge.php

Hmm 'kay?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by marden 

I think we need to look around us. All the signs are there.

There is a global campaign aimed at the West and we have been measured and tolerant and patient and we have been safeguarded from physical harm thanks to the President but the enemy is making non-violent progress as well as waging a violent jihad against the west.

The West is starting to wake up and rise up in all sorts of ways.

The Fox News Channel special OBSESSION was a sign that the MSM was beginning to wake up.

Then CNN aired a special called EXPOSED: THE EXTREMIST AGENDA

And just this afternoon the Dutch decided to ban the wearing of burqas.

Western governments and organizations are starting to wake up and I believe we are seeing the beginning of a sea change, a fundamental shift, a backlash against the liberals and the bashers and the apologists and the, "YES, but..." Muslims and the jihadists. Westerners everywhere will begin acting in their own way as the insurgents have acted in Iraq, to face a common enemy.

The UCLA cops too?

Maybe.

Will everyone act as rationally and as fairly as President Bush has?

Nope. It may be too late now.

The moderate Muslims could have and should have stood up against jihad and for America but they didn't.

Why not look at this guy as being the first stage in our inching toward the kind of thing we've seen in Iraq.


The bodies were dragged in the
streets and then hanged from
a bridge over the Euphrates River.

I knew it! This kid was obviously part of the global jihad. The cops shoulda tased him a few more times as well as the apologist bystanders.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I knew it! This kid was obviously part of the global jihad. The cops shoulda tased him a few more times as well as the apologist bystanders.

He should have obeyed the lawful orders of the police.

Oh, here's some more for you to ponder.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by marden 

He should have obeyed the lawful orders of the police.

Oh, here's some more for you to ponder.

You're right. They shoulda tased him alot more. He, and those bystanders, were obviously supporters, possibly even planners, of the WTC attack.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

You're right. They shoulda tased him alot more. He, and those bystanders, were obviously supporters, possibly even planners, of the WTC attack.

You obviously have no feel for how groups of liberals behave.

They will act passively aggressively toward law enforcement officers and defy their authority to do their job of keeping peace, protecting lives and property and generally enforcing the law.

They would not have tased him for nothing. And not that it would matter, but only professionals acting well within their mandate would have tased him with those many young, liberals around.

If I were he I would have followed their orders or tried to show I was sincerely attempting to comply.

I think he might have understood the potential value of whininess and getting his ass tased (the American version of martyr-dum?) might be to the liberal cause once the situation was upon him. So he might have played it up as much as he could.

If what I say turns out to be true then he can be a hero to young imbeciles as well as jihadists around the world.

I hope I'm wrong.

[OwlBoy]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

The point is that they weren't being abusive at all. Number one, as you pointed out they gave him a zillion chances to stand the f*ck up and walk out. He wouldn't.

Number two, they used the tool they were given to subdue someone WITHOUT resorting to abusive means.

If you read the article, it says there is a good chance he was was having trouble moving after being tazered… And then he gets tazered again? yeah that helps.

-Owl

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by marden 

You obviously have no feel for how groups of liberals behave.

They will act passively aggressively toward law enforcement officers and defy their authority to do their job of keeping peace, protecting lives and property and generally enforcing the law.

They would not have tased him for nothing. And not that it would matter, but only professionals acting well within their mandate would have tased him with those many young, liberals around.

If I were he I would have followed their orders or tried to show I was sincerely attempting to comply.

I think he might have understood the potential value of whininess and getting his ass tased (the American version of martyr-dum?) might be to the liberal cause once the situation was upon him. So he might have played it up as much as he could.

If what I say turns out to be true then he can be a hero to young imbeciles as well as jihadists around the world.

I hope I'm wrong.

Did you read any of the articles?

He was trying to exit the building when security arrived.

Them grabbing his arm initiated the confrontation.

I don't grab drunks by the arm to throw them out. It only leads to more confrontation.

If they would have allowed him to walk out, as he was planning to do, this would not have happened.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by marden 

You obviously have no feel for how groups of liberals behave.

They will act passively aggressively toward law enforcement officers and defy their authority to do their job of keeping peace, protecting lives and property and generally enforcing the law.

They would not have tased him for nothing. And not that it would matter, but only professionals acting well within their mandate would have tased him with those many young, liberals around.

"They would not have tased him for nothing"? You don't even know them. You're asserting things you have imagined as fact.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by OwlBoy 

If you read the article, it says there is a good chance he was was having trouble moving after being tazered… And then he gets tazered again? yeah that helps.

-Owl

Well, I don't believe for a second that a single drive-stun mode zap can cause a lasting problem like that. So I call bullshit. Drive-stun mode causes pain but not incapacitation. This nut was being an ass.

Besides, as has been pointed out many times already. He had wits enough to tell them he couldn't walk. Instead he screamed a bunch of bullshit and obscenities at the cops.

This all comes down to the initial arm grab. If you believe that the cops had NO right to take him by the arm and walk him out then the rest is of course the cops' fault too, since they "started it". I say that since the douche-bag was being unruly BEFORE the cops arrived that they had the right to walk him out regardless of whether he was already leaving or not. He was interfering with them and once it started he never ONCE started to comply.

[Chuckit]

In my opinion, the question is whether you believe he assaulted anybody. If he assaulted somebody, the cops were reasonable to attack him. If he did not assault anybody, they should not have shot him with a weapon that would be considered assault if anybody else had done it.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

In my opinion, the question is whether you believe he assaulted anybody. If he assaulted somebody, the cops were reasonable to attack him. If he did not assault anybody, they should not have shot him with a weapon that would be considered assault if anybody else had done it.

11-16-2006, 06:46 PM #3
Doormat
Junior Member

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 21
vCash: 500
Validation Points: 111


Okay kids, I'm here!

Yes, I was indeed at Powell Library at approximately 11:30 on Tuesday night, and yes I did see the entire event as it went down.

Let me start off by saying that the guy DEFINITELY was asking to get his ass kicked. He was being extremely rude with the campus patrol guys (who are college students...this was before the real UCPD got called in). He was not complying with their requests to leave the premises, and he was definitely itching for a fight. I actually know the guy and a few of his friends, and I can tell you that he's the kind of guy that loves to make trouble.

Just as a little backstory, one of the quotes the guy has on his facebook (which he now has taken down) was "I like to find the most difficult solutions to the simplest of problems".

He definitely taunted the UCPD into behaving the way they did with him.

Edit: Many people have questioned the fact that the cops tazed him and asked him to get up, and tazed him again even though he shouldn't have the capability to get up. This was not the case here to my knowledge, because the cops were using their "drive-stun" method which administers less of a jolt than normal. I believe this because anyone who can ramble on about this being the patriot act and yell at the top of his lungs should have the capability of getting up.
Last edited by Doormat : 11-16-2006 at 06:50 PM.

11-16-2006, 06:48 PM #4
Doormat
Junior Member

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 21
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Also I'd like to add that our local campus patrol officers (the college guys with the night jobs) and the UCPD have a really good track record, and my experiences with them have been great. In the food chain of good cop/bad cop, these guys are definitely on the "letting **** slide" part.

I have class with one campus officers who was there last night, so I'm going to ask him what his take was on it and what they were discussing while this was going down.

By the way if you have any questions, feel free to ask.

11-16-2006, 06:53 PM #6
1 track mind
jumps in with both feet.



Join Date: Jan 2006
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Thank you for posting this. Some people around here, and **** load of people on YouTube have gone whiny liberal "you can't do that to another human being he wasn't doing anything wrong OMG." I said it in the other thread. It's completely clear that the kid was acting like a jackass, deserved everything he got, and the UCPD were working completely within their protocol.


EDIT: I've been getting rep for my post in the other thread responding to Goonit; one of the many whiny pussies who got their panties in a twist.

"You're a douche bag. Get real, pick his ass up if there are multiple guys. Tasering should be last resort and used against physical threats you insane ****."

Just to respond to that in an appropriate place, I asked one of the LEO's on this board about necessary use of force.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Someone who knows more than you.
We can use force to a) defend himself or the public b) overcome resistance or c) prevent escape. If someone's resisting, we're allowed to hit with our hands, kick, use twist locks, strike with an impact device, taze, shoot w/ a bean bag gun, OC spray ... I think that's it.

Tucker Max Message Board - The UCLA beat-down: We have a witness

[Chuckit]

I read that a few times, and every time I missed the part where you proved he attacked anybody. You want to edit that tome down to the part where you establish that? All I see is more people going "I think it's OK to respond to nonviolent protests with violence." Which, OK, move to China.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I read that a few times, and every time I missed the part where you proved he attacked anybody. You want to edit that tome down to the part where you establish that? All I see is more people going "I think it's OK to respond to nonviolent protests with violence." Which, OK, move to China.

From my post:

Originally Posted by Someone who knows more than you.
We can use force to a) defend himself or the public b) overcome resistance or c) prevent escape. If someone's resisting, we're allowed to hit with our hands, kick, use twist locks, strike with an impact device, taze, shoot w/ a bean bag gun, OC spray ... I think that's it.

[Chuckit]

Oh, so you really didn't intend to address the issue. That's a shame.

FYI, the guy was handcuffed, and doesn't seem to have been fighting back even before that. There was no need for violence.