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Muslim Group Offends Some Christians With Jesus Advertisements
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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Muslims incorporating Jesus into Islam is as provocative and offensive as Christians incorporating the old testament into Christianity. In other words: not at all.
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Good thing no Christians have ever verbally attacked Islam in public.
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My sig is 1 pixel too big.
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The ones that have have usually have a fatwah pronounced on them. Just ask Theo Van Gogh. Oh wait, his fatwah was carried out. I don't think he counts anyway since he was an atheist.
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Last edited by Chongo; Jun 4, 2011 at 08:51 PM.
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It's so depressing how long in our history these stupid "my god is better than your god" wars/fights/conflicts have been going on.
Religion sucks.
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Originally Posted by besson3c
It's so depressing how long in our history these stupid "my god is better than your god" wars/fights/conflicts have been going on.
Religion sucks.
It's so depressing how long in our history these stupid "no god is better than your god" wars/fights/conflicts have been going on*.
Atheism sucks.
(* See China invasion of Tibet for details)
( Mankind sucks. End of story.)
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Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Originally Posted by Doofy
It's so depressing how long in our history these stupid "no god is better than your god" wars/fights/conflicts have been going on*.
Atheism sucks.
(* See China invasion of Tibet for details)
(Mankind sucks. End of story.)
The Chinese invasion of Tibet was about controlling Tibet and its religion for the sake of controlling Tibet, not because the Chinese thought that atheism was better and otherwise had no interest in taking over Tibet.
I agree with you that mankind sucks, but on the whole, religious dogma has done *far* *far* worse in the history of everything than the history of atheist dogma.
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Originally Posted by besson3c
I agree with you that mankind sucks, but on the whole, religious dogma has done *far* *far* worse in the history of everything than the history of atheist dogma.
No "buts". The commies killed a hundred million people... ...communism is an atheist dogma.
Everyone is equally bad. Your knobheads don't get a free pass by you insisting that my knobheads did worse.
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I'm a Christian, can someone please tell mw why I should be offended ? *shrug*
It's a fact that Islam shares a lot with Christianity in terms of people and prophets up until Jesus. Why would that be offensive ?
If anything, it's more like a recognition that Islam "copied" a lot of stuff from Christianity and Judaism, adding some original content extra confusion to it.
If anything, there are probably as many believers of Islam that are unaware that Jesus is officially recognized as a great prophet as there are Christians that don't know about it. What's the fuss ?
-t
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The age old mistake of thinking that atheism can be classified in the same set as all the other religions. Atheism is not a motive for any of the wrongs described in this thread.
Communism is not caused by atheism, it is not an atheist dogma. It is entirely possible to have one without the other. Even if there were some kind of link, then its worth pointing out that mass murder, restriction of freedoms, corruption or the other things that people usually dislike about real world communism are also not required by communism or atheism. Linking the way you have is just ignorant and foolish. Or should I say trollish? (Especially for someone who clearly has no particular love of religion.)
Most of mankind does suck, but it has nothing to do with atheism.
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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Surrounded by Heathens, Heretics, and Infidels. Life is hard.
So sue someone. Competitive rates.
proposed law office ad
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Originally Posted by Doofy
No "buts". The commies killed a hundred million people... ...communism is an atheist dogma.
Everyone is equally bad. Your knobheads don't get a free pass by you insisting that my knobheads did worse.
Yeah, I'm a commie...
I don't think communism is necessarily about religious dogma, it's about political dogma.
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Originally Posted by besson3c
Yeah, I'm a commie...
I take that as an admission that you killed 100 million people
-t
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Reading the linked article from the OP I find it odd that so many religious leaders still try the "Lets respect each other and each others beliefs" line when they clearly don't respect each others beliefs. If they did, they'd all be part of the same religion.
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Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep
Linking the way you have is just ignorant and foolish.
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought this thread was about ignorance and folly.
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Originally Posted by besson3c
I don't think communism is necessarily about religious dogma, it's about political dogma.
And yet you somehow think that all of the atrocities carried out in the name of religion were about religion and not about politics under the guise of religion.
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Originally Posted by Doofy
And yet you somehow think that all of the atrocities carried out in the name of religion were about religion and not about politics under the guise of religion.
Touché
-t
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Originally Posted by TETENAL
Muslims incorporating Jesus into Islam is as provocative and offensive as Christians incorporating the old testament into Christianity. In other words: not at all.
Indeed, and Jesus has been considered a prophet of Islam since the religion began. I guess Christians just figured it out 1400 years later.
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Originally Posted by turtle777
I take that as an admission that you killed 100 million people
-t
Last Tuesday, yes...
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Originally Posted by Doofy
And yet you somehow think that all of the atrocities carried out in the name of religion were about religion and not about politics under the guise of religion.
I didn't say that. I think religion made these power grabs and getting people to think and do dumb things easier than it would have been without religion.
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Originally Posted by besson3c
I didn't say that. I think religion made these power grabs and getting people to think and do dumb things easier than it would have been without religion.
It's funny how religions "make" those power grabs, but other belief systems would never do that
-t
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Originally Posted by besson3c
I didn't say that. I think religion made these power grabs and getting people to think and do dumb things easier than it would have been without religion.
Power grabs are political events, not religious.
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Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep
The age old mistake of thinking that atheism can be classified in the same set as all the other religions. Atheism is not a motive for any of the wrongs described in this thread.
Communism is not caused by atheism, it is not an atheist dogma. It is entirely possible to have one without the other. Even if there were some kind of link, then its worth pointing out that mass murder, restriction of freedoms, corruption or the other things that people usually dislike about real world communism are also not required by communism or atheism. Linking the way you have is just ignorant and foolish. Or should I say trollish? (Especially for someone who clearly has no particular love of religion.)
Most of mankind does suck, but it has nothing to do with atheism.
You're calling other people foolish? I think you need to read up on communism before you post...
The only thing wrong with doofy's post is the communists didnt kill 100 million they killed over 150 million people IN-THE-NAME-OF-ATHEISM. Most you people in the west dont seem to know about what goes on in other part of the world if it doesnt involve Hitler. Atheism is at the foundation of communism and in all practiced attempts of communism including China's, religion is to be exterminated.
In Russia they tortured Christians and Muslims to show people that god wouldn't save them; then people would put their faith and devotion in to the whole. This was all part of the formula.
And that just a couple examples, there are more examples of the wrath of atheism throughout history.
In response to the thread title. Jesus is a significant prophet of Islam and hence should offend nobody.... but you know Americans. The country where the dumber/liberaler you are the more reward/money you get from the government.
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Originally Posted by imitchellg5
Power grabs are political events, not religious.
What I mean is that it's sort of like how having a constant fridge full of fresh food makes it easier to overeat and allow yourself to get fat than not having that food.
Religion makes it easy to exploit the masses.
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Originally Posted by el chupacabra
You're calling other people foolish? I think you need to read up on communism before you post...
The only thing wrong with doofy's post is the communists didnt kill 100 million they killed over 150 million people IN-THE-NAME-OF-ATHEISM. Most you people in the west dont seem to know about what goes on in other part of the world if it doesnt involve Hitler. Atheism is at the foundation of communism and in all practiced attempts of communism including China's, religion is to be exterminated.
In Russia they tortured Christians and Muslims to show people that god wouldn't save them; then people would put their faith and devotion in to the whole. This was all part of the formula.
And that just a couple examples, there are more examples of the wrath of atheism throughout history.
In response to the thread title. Jesus is a significant prophet of Islam and hence should offend nobody.... but you know Americans. The country where the dumber/liberaler you are the more reward/money you get from the government.
From this page:
Isn't Atheism the Same as Communism? Doesn't Atheism Lead to Communism? - Atheists are All Just Pinko Commies Out to Undermine Christian Civilization
Communism is not, however, inherently atheistic. It is possible to hold communist or socialist economic views while being a theist and it isn't at all uncommon to be an atheist while staunchly defending capitalism — a combination often found among Objectivists and Libertarians, for example. Their existence alone demonstrates, without question, that atheism and communism are not the same thing.
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Originally Posted by turtle777
It's funny how religions "make" those power grabs, but other belief systems would never do that
-t
It might be funny if I said that.
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Originally Posted by besson3c
It might be funny if I said that.
Oh puhleeze.
-t
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Originally Posted by besson3c
Communism is not, however, inherently atheistic. It is possible to hold communist or socialist economic views while being a theist and it isn't at all uncommon to be an atheist while staunchly defending capitalism — a combination often found among Objectivists and Libertarians, for example. Their existence alone demonstrates, without question, that atheism and communism are not the same thing.
Karl Marx did say:
"Religion is the opium of the people"
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Originally Posted by turtle777
Oh puhleeze.
-t
Are you this combative in real life?
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Originally Posted by besson3c
Are you this combative in real life?
Are you this passive-agressive in real life?
(edit: Why didn't Safari pick up the spelling error caused by tired fingers in the above line? What a bunch of crap.)
(
Last edited by Doofy; Jun 5, 2011 at 12:27 AM.
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Originally Posted by Doofy
Are you this passive-agressive in real life?
I'm a little too lazy to try to understand your train of thought in this thread Doofy, sorry.
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Oh puhleeze.
-t
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Originally Posted by turtle777
Oh puhleeze.
-t
Are you this spot on the ball, nail on the head accurate in your assessment of the opposition in real life?
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The muslims threw a fit when anyone published the muhammed bomb head.
And they don't like it when you tell them muhammed was a pedophile.
- HUMAN EVENTS
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I guess since that image is now being posted on MacNN, it's okay to post this image of laminar.
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Originally Posted by turtle777
I'm a Christian, can someone please tell mw why I should be offended ? *shrug*
It's a fact that Islam shares a lot with Christianity in terms of people and prophets up until Jesus. Why would that be offensive?
If a Christian were to take offense, it could be on the grounds that Islam expropriates figures from Judaism and Christianity and calls them Muslims as if they were Islamic instead of Jewish or Christian. That can be offensive to some, even if by calling them Muslims it is meant only that they "submitted" to the divine will.
It's one thing for Islam to revere the same figures, but it usually goes further than that. Islam is a thoroughgoing supersessionist religion in ways that go beyond the supersessionism of Christianity. This can become an issue in some circumstances because Muslims have been known to argue that Jewish and Christian figures they revere were actually not Jews or Christians but were instead Muslims and practiced an earlier form of "Islam" that was "corrupted" at some point and became Judaism or Christianity before being "corrected" by the teachings of Mohammed thousands/hundreds of years later. That line of argumentation can obviously spark conflict.
Christians would never claim that revered Jewish figures who lived prior to the creation of Christianity were actually Christians, but that's the type of language Muslims freely use.
(
Last edited by Big Mac; Jun 5, 2011 at 02:17 AM.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Originally Posted by Big Mac
If a Christian were to take offense, it could be on the grounds that Islam expropriates figures from Judaism and Christianity and calls them Muslims as if they were Islamic instead of Jewish or Christian.
Islam wasn't around when Jesus was, how could he be Muslim?
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That's the point. Muslims call Jewish and Christian figures whom they revere "Muslims." Some say it is only meant in the simple sense that those figures "submitted" to the divine will and thus were Muslims, but others go much further in their attempted expropriation.
The simple sense I mention is mildly annoying to me but not that big of a deal, but the more expansive expropriation definitely bothers me.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Originally Posted by Big Mac
Christians would never claim that revered Jewish figures who lived prior to the creation of Christianity were actually Christians, but that's the type of language Muslims freely use.
Actually, some do. That might not be 100% correct, theologically.
But what do you make of e.g. Abraham.
He wasn't a "Jew" in the strict sense either.
-t
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Originally Posted by turtle777
Actually, some do. That might not be 100% correct, theologically.
Interesting. Haven't seen it before, but I stand corrected.
But what do you make of e.g. Abraham. He wasn't a "Jew" in the strict sense either.
Right. Abraham was the "Hebrew." However, Abraham became the first Jew figuratively speaking because of the covenant he established that is central to Judaism and because the Torah says that he comprehensively followed G-d's laws even before the written Torah was given. If one narrowly defines a Jew as being a descendant of the tribe of Judah, then by that definition he wasn't a Jew, but the term Jew is not usually defined so narrowly. (In the era of the later prophets, Israelites all switched to calling themselves Jews, even those who came from tribes other than Judah.) If a Jew is defined instead as one who follows Torah, then Abraham was the first Jew (and that's basically the answer most Jewish authorities give to that question, while some are more literalistic with the term).
(
Last edited by Big Mac; Jun 5, 2011 at 03:52 AM.
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Originally Posted by Buckaroo
They are at it again. Muslims attacking Christian religion.
0/10. Even as a troll you are a failure.
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Originally Posted by Big Mac
If one narrowly defines a Jew as being a descendant of the tribe of Judah, then by that definition he wasn't a Jew, but the term Jew is not usually defined so narrowly. (In the era of the later prophets, Israelites all switched to calling themselves Jews, even those who came from tribes other than Judah.) If a Jew is defined instead as one who follows Torah, then Abraham was the first Jew (and that's basically the answer most Jewish authorities give to that question, while some are more literalistic with the term).
There are Christian theologians that basically say: Old Testament believers believed in the same God as the NT Christians. God was already triune from the beginning ("Let US make men..."). Therefore, even though Jesus was not clearly revealed as part of the Godhead, they still believed in him as part of the triune "package".
-t
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[QUOTE=el chupacabra;4083083]You're calling other people foolish?
Yes.
This is basic, basic logic.
All black cats are cats therefore all cats are black. Does that make sense to you?
Originally Posted by el chupacabra
Atheism is at the foundation of communism and in all practiced attempts of communism including China's, religion is to be exterminated.
In Russia they tortured Christians and Muslims to show people that god wouldn't save them; then people would put their faith and devotion in to the whole. This was all part of the formula.
If you want to control a population, it makes sense to wipe out competing control mechanisms. Sadly mass murder is by far the most efficient method of eradicating religion. We see on a daily basis in these very forums that logic and reason have no effect whatsoever.
Originally Posted by el chupacabra
And that just a couple examples, there are more examples of the wrath of atheism throughout history.
Such as? Of course there are no examples of christians killing anyone over religion isn't that right?
Incidentally I think the sensible people here will forgive me for not taking my history lessons from some who thinks that "liberaler" is a word and probably thinks basing their lives on logic like this is sensible:
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I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
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(
Last edited by el chupacabra; Jan 5, 2024 at 01:07 AM.
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Originally Posted by el chupacabra
Not all atheists are communists; but all communists are atheists.
False. Not all communists are Marxists, though pretty few non-Marxist communists have had any gov't power.
And according to Act of the Apostles, the primitive church practised a kind of communism; but we don't really know if this is historical, or if the author falsely ascribed Essene practices to the primitive church.
The people in this thread who think atheism is the killer ingredient of Communism are really clueless. Sure, take away multi-party democracy, private property, freedom of speech, and give the state extensive control over every part of life. But only if atheism gets added, it's only then when the murders start. Fncking clueless.
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