[shabbasuraj]

Originally Posted by nredman

No easing up for Lance Armstrong in his last Tour de France.

Armstrong took a huge step toward winning his seventh consecutive Tour on the very first day of the three-week race. He crushed his main rivals in an opening time trial Saturday, opening up early time gaps that may be big enough to carry him through to victory at the finish in Paris on July 24.

"I was hungry today,'' said Armstrong, who is 33 and has said he will retire after this year's Tour. ``I didn't come to ride a retirement race. I came to win.''



http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug...v=ap&type=lgns

not bad, if he wouldn't have started off bad i think he may have won the stage. i'm kind of glad he didnt though. go lance!

poor Jan...

[sminch]

poor jan indeed. lance is a monster.

sminch

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Who has the highest VO2max?

An anonymous Norwegian cross country skier, anonymous because it was part of a scientific study and not his training. That V02Max was 94. Armstrong's is 93.5. For reference, LeMond's was 90.5, Indurain's 88 and Ullrich's is 88. A VO2Max above 90 puts you in the genetic freak category.

[mrgaskell]

Originally Posted by villalobos

Yeah he is.

I hope you get yer arse kicked for that. Haters. They just can't be happy, or accept that someone is just a phenominal athlete. Could it be that cycling is suffering and as Lance says, "A horrible day on a bike beats a great day on chemo."

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by villalobos

Yeah he is.

Actually, he's probably not. Ullruich or Vinokurov either. Athletes like these guys, with very high natural VO2Max, don't benefit from doping that much, as they already have a very efficient cardiovascular system. The athletes who really benefit from doping are riders like Virenque and the late Marco Pantani, who have a very high lactate threshold and a lower VO2Max.

There's also the fact that Armstrong is giving money to the UCI to fund anti-doping measures:

Lance Armstrong has always fought to defend himself against slurs on his reputation as a clean athlete but less well known is his fight against doping itself behind the scenes. UCI president Hein Verbruggen spoke to ‘Eurosport’ and divulged that the American “gave money for the research against doping, to discover new anti-doping methods," “He gave money from his private funds, cash. He didn't want this to be known but he did it". Armstrong did not make this knowledge public and when questioned about the contribution said that “If I've donated money to the UCI to combat doping, step up controls and to fund research, it is not my job to issue a press release. That's a secret thing, because it's the right thing to do.” Eurosport.com also reports that when questioned about the amounts of money involved there followed “(Laughter) It was a fair amount. It wasn't... It wasn't a small amount of money".

[budster101]

It's bad when you need a timeline from within the same thread.
I stated this TWICE already. (Donation to UCI)

[Ω]

Originally Posted by budster101

It's bad when you need a timeline from within the same thread.
I stated this TWICE already. (Donation to UCI)

It has been a couple of days

[budster101]

mmmm.ok.

Cutting some slack.... 1', 2', 3'... snip.

[buggsuperstar]

I wouldn't consider myself much of a cycling fan, but I have read Lance's Autobiography , and anyone with the iron determination that he has, deserves my utmost respect.

Go Lance.

I'm rooting for ya.

[nredman]

Lance Armstrong seized
the Tour de France yellow jersey in dramatic fashion on Tuesday
when his Discovery Channel team sped to victory in the fourth
stage ahead of the CSC outfit of previous leader David
Zabriskie, who crashed near the finish.

Armstrong's team set too fast a pace over the 67.5 km team
time trial between Tours and Blois, clocking one hour, 10
minutes and 39 seconds at an astounding average speed of 57.31
kph, the fastest in a Tour.

go lance!

[tie]

I haven't read any of the posts in this thread, because I just learned my lesson. I couldn't watch OLN this morning -- well, just a few minutes at the start -- and planned on catching it this evening. Now I just clicked on the RSS feed for the NY Times. Arghh! I should know better.

[PacHead]

No matter how much the Frenchies cheat, they will not be able to stop Lance from winning yet again.

Anybody who claims he is doping is just dumb. Come with the evidence or STFU. Lance has been tested a ton of times, and they've all come out negative.

The Frenchies tested all of the cyclists, and they continue to harass and single out Lance for extra testing. Either test everybody or nobody, don't keep testing and harassing one particular guy every 2 minutes, while everybody else gets a pass. The corrupt, jealous Frenchies prove to the whole entire world what sorelosers they truly are.

Here's to Lance.

And here's to the Frenchies:

[sminch]

Anybody who claims he is doping is just dumb.

or just cynical.

Come with the evidence or STFU.

how about if you come up with evidence that he isn't? and don't just say that

Lance has been tested a ton of times, and they've all come out negative.

because that's not answering the question - i absolutely agree that there's no chance he is using anything currently tested for as he would have been caught by now, but it's ridiculous to say that there is zero chance he is using / has used something which is not tested for.

i hope that he's clean as that would be amazing, fantastic, brilliant, superhuman, inspiring etc etc, but the cynic in me has to wonder how the hell he can be so damn strong. apologies if that pisses you off.

i'm rooting for lance all the way (except when i'm feeling sorry for jan, the poor bastard), but i'm not the kind of person to make blanket statements about lance being drug free, especially when i can see that they're fundamentally flawed. besides, isn't it great to have lance tested more than anyone else, never get a positive, and still win?

sminch

[budster101]

He's been tested. He's clean.

[scaught]

Originally Posted by sminch

how about if you come up with evidence that he isn't? and don't just say that

shall he also come up with the evidence that he isnt santa claus or the devil that went down to georgia?

i make both claims.

[sminch]

shall he also come up with the evidence that he isnt santa claus or the devil that went down to georgia?

absolutely!

i know that he can't do what i've challenged him to do, but that's exactly what i'm getting at - my point is that it's all but impossible for pachead or anyone else (including official drug testing bodies) to prove his claim is true, while the chance of him being wrong is hardly zero given the state and record of drug testing in sport.

testing is always going to be a step behind the development of drugs - this is undeniable. saying that there's no way lance is on drugs and that anyone who suggests he might be is a dumb, corrupt, jealous frenchie is just trying to ignore this fact by acting like a three year old.

none of us know, and to defend your opinion through name-calling or restating your opionion again and again 1) isn't particularly impressive, and 2) doesn't convince me that you're right.

sminch

[budster101]

The scientific evidence of how he can do what he does is in. Not only the drug testing but his VO2 max etc. Lack of lactic acid buildup in his extremities etc... he doesn't need to dope. Don't you get it?

Also: this is a TEAM sport so the other riders do play a factor as well. But in the end it is also the best fittest person, and that is Lance Armstrong. He does train insainly hard, not to discount that, as he isn't just naturally this way (entirely).

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by sminch

how about if you come up with evidence that he isn't? and don't just say that

Because it's an empty assertion: you can't prove a negative.

but it's ridiculous to say that there is zero chance he is using / has used something which is not tested for.

No, it's not. It's another illogical statement: you are arguing that denying something which, by its nature, can not be proven is a silly thing to do, when, in fact, demanding proof for something which can not be proven is far sillier. Once again you are trying to prove a negative.

but the cynic in me has to wonder how the hell he can be so damn strong. apologies if that pisses you off.

He has the second highest VO2Max ever recorded and an inhuman lactate threshold; it's not that big of a mystery. I don't know if Lance dopes, but until he gets busted I won't assume he does.

And, I don't feel sorry for Jan. He has never brought the kind of focus he needed to cycling, instead relying on his sheer physical ability. His problems with drugs and driving under the influence tell you everything you need to know: he doesn't take his racing seriously enough. Walter Goodefroot, the outgoing director of T-Mobile/Telekom, has said that if he had an athlete with the physical ability of Ullrich and the work ethic of Zabel he'd have the next Merckx.

[Ω]

Originally Posted by Ω

And if I could ask one thing for this thread. This thread is about the race. If you want to talk about who is potential drug cheat could we try and keep it short and civil, or possibly even start "The Official XXXX is a cheating bastard thread 2005™".

From my first post.

[sminch]

Once again you are trying to prove a negative

aaargh. my whole point is that it can't be proven either way on the evidence currently available, so absolute statements are worthless.

From my first post.

sorry, my fault.

carry on!

sminch

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by sminch

aaargh. my whole point is that it can't be proven either way on the evidence currently available, so absolute statements are worthless.

Then we agree. Except I think I can say, "David Zabreskie is gonna be way sore tomorrow" and be pretty much on the money.

[Ω]

I typically start watching in the mountain stages. That is when the real pain starts. Everything up till then is nothing more than a warm up. Also coverage starting around 1AM where I am does not help the cause.

Good to see Beloki is racing this year, and wonder if he can also mount a challenge this year (though not likely).

[kilechki]

Originally Posted by PacHead

No matter how much the Frenchies cheat, they will not be able to stop Lance from winning yet again.

Anybody who claims he is doping is just dumb. Come with the evidence or STFU. Lance has been tested a ton of times, and they've all come out negative.

The Frenchies tested all of the cyclists, and they continue to harass and single out Lance for extra testing. Either test everybody or nobody, don't keep testing and harassing one particular guy every 2 minutes, while everybody else gets a pass. The corrupt, jealous Frenchies prove to the whole entire world what sorelosers they truly are.

Here's to Lance.

And here's to the Frenchies:

I got your brain on the phone. He told me to kiss you.


Really, this is one of the lamest post I ever read on this board.

[typoon]

Originally Posted by Ω

I typically start watching in the mountain stages. That is when the real pain starts. Everything up till then is nothing more than a warm up. Also coverage starting around 1AM where I am does not help the cause.

Good to see Beloki is racing this year, and wonder if he can also mount a challenge this year (though not likely).

I usually do as well. Yesterday though I just had to watch the Team Time Trial. THAT was exciting. Discovery only beat Team CSC by 2 seconds and posted the fastest TTT time in Tour history. That's some Excitement. Of course once the Montains come around THAT is when the race will be determined.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by kilechki

I got your brain on the phone. He told me to kiss you.

Really, this is one of the lamest post I ever read on this board.

Why, thank you very much for your words of wisdom. How many croissants did you have to consume to come up with that ?

I notice that you did not refute anything I wrote, and you apparently have no problem that the Frenchies are singling out and harassing Lance for extra testing. That would make you complicit in the evil plans of the Frenchies.



And you want to kiss me ? Are you a hot looking French chick ? I'll make out with you. Please post pics, and I will consider the offer. I am an animal in bed, and I will make you scream "Ooh lala"

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by kilechki

Really, this is one of the lamest post I ever read on this board.

You haven't seen his other posts then. You should check them out sometime. Oh wait... Don't bother. Waste of time.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

You haven't seen his other posts then. You should check them out sometime. Oh wait... Don't bother. Waste of time.

Says the guy who starts threads about socks !

[Don Pickett]

If any of you are interested, Ullrich is writing a daily journal for velonews.com.

[tie]

Well, the French attitude towards Armstrong is certainly a bit odd (from an American's point of view). They loved Virenque last year. While he did make the race interesting, he also was caught doping in 1998 and denied it until he was proven to have been lying. It doesn't make any sense to me that someone like Virenque should ever have been allowed to compete again. I think there is a double standard here.

[mrgaskell]

When you are a World Champion cyclist at 170+ lbs. and after chemo and radiation, get to rebuild your physique from the ground up, you can erase the weaknesses of excess weight and become a champion climber.

That and he came up with a new technique for climbing that no one else has ever tried, which is very high cadence and a moderate gear ratio, as opposed to grinding up the hills like all the great climbers. His cadence is like 95 while climbing! That's nuts. Most can't keep it that high on flat ground!

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by mrgaskell

That and he came up with a new technique for climbing that no one else has ever tried, which is very high cadence and a moderate gear ratio, as opposed to grinding up the hills like all the great climbers. His cadence is like 95 while climbing! That's nuts. Most can't keep it that high on flat ground!

He did NOT come up with this way of climbing, and he is NOT the first to climb this way. It was Indurain who suggested that Armstrong change his climbing style. Indurain and Armstrong both have very high VO2Max measurements – very high levels of cardiovascular efficiency – so they can both make the trade off of using their lungs and heart more, and their leg muscles less. Someone like Ullrich, who doesn't have the efficiency of Armstrong, grinds a larger gear, which uses his legs more and his heart and lungs less.

Typically one climbs with one style or the other. Virenque, who won the King of the Mountains title seven times, always spun a very small gear, as does Cadel Evans. Santiago Botero grinds huge gears uphill.

[Ω]

Great stage today. Things are starting to heat up on the tour!

[tie]

Yes, this is turning into a great race. Pity about Zabriskie -- despite his poor interview skills, he seemed like a nice guy, and it's always nice to see a young and talented American racing.

[Ω]

Rasmussen owned the stage today. To break away with 167km to go and take the victory was fantastic. Lets hope he can keep his KotM jersey when the fun really starts.

[nredman]

back in yellow

http://sports.yahoo.com/sc/news?slug...v=ap&type=lgns

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by kilechki

I got your brain on the phone. He told me to kiss you.


Really, this is one of the lamest post I ever read on this board.

Mind you he is also one of those who say that the French are soft on terrorism.

What should you expect?

[shabbasuraj]

Rasmussen held up well today... Armstrong destroyed the peloton today...

I think we will see more of the same tomorrow..

Jens/yellow jersey was 30 minutes+ behind....

can you say DESTRUCTION?

[shabbasuraj]

The famous pic...

I think the slobber actually destracted to competition, thus affording him a competititve edge, and giving him the stage win...

[Ω]

Rasmussen is on the move.....

[Ω]

....and got swallowed...

But a good race today on the whole.

[typoon]

So far this is turning out to be a pretty exciting tour even though it's starting to look like the Tour de Lance again.

[mr. burns]

all you naïve ****s who think armstrong is a saint, go here:

the guy who made this site is a former pro who quit because of all the drug use, and my pro cycling friend says he's got a ton of stuff on armstrong
http://www.stolenunderground.com/home



and another interesting read. a more in-depth look at the stuff you armchair cyclists aren't exposed to.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/image...ers-screen.pdf


my best friend from childhood is on the top domestic pro team in north america and he said he's pretty much the only one who isn't 'lubed' up. he said people just assume he does that stuff too because everyone else on the team does, lol.

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by mr. burns

my best friend from childhood is on the top domestic pro team in north america and he said he's pretty much the only one who isn't 'lubed' up. he said people just assume he does that stuff too because everyone else on the team does, lol.

ANY pro you talk to will tell you they're not using, but that a lot of other people are. I've heard this more than once: Man, I don't dope, but so and so does. . . No one admits to doping until they're caught.

I don't think anyone here is saying Armstrong is a saint. Matter of fact, from what I can tell, he's not a nice guy at all, which is probably one of the reasons he's such a good cyclist: he has to win at everything. Doesn't sound like a guy I'd like to hang around with. However, until he's caught with a positive test I won't assume he's doping, which is the same courtesy I extend to all riders.

[budster101]

He's been tested so much, you'd think he'd have been caught. Your friend is just jealous.

Armstrong has the second highest VO2max, and he has very little lactic acid buildup.
He doesn't NEED to dope. His body naturally dopes. Do you guys even know what doping is? It's not a drug, I'll give you a clue... and that's it.

[mr. burns]

Originally Posted by budster101

He's been tested so much, you'd think he'd have been caught. Your friend is just jealous.

yes, that's EXACTLY IT. you know him so well

for your information, he's most likely quitting next season because he'll probably be replaced by someone who does dope when they go division 1.

you guys seriously don't know anything.

[budster101]

You just admitted he doesn't dope.

"for your information, he's most likely quitting next season...replaced by someone that "DOES" dope..."

Winning the TDF 7 times has nothing to do with it either and he wants to just relax and retire....

How bitter of you and your 'friend'.

[typoon]

Originally Posted by mr. burns

all you naïve ****s who think armstrong is a saint, go here:

the guy who made this site is a former pro who quit because of all the drug use, and my pro cycling friend says he's got a ton of stuff on armstrong
http://www.stolenunderground.com/home



and another interesting read. a more in-depth look at the stuff you armchair cyclists aren't exposed to.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/image...ers-screen.pdf


my best friend from childhood is on the top domestic pro team in north america and he said he's pretty much the only one who isn't 'lubed' up. he said people just assume he does that stuff too because everyone else on the team does, lol.

If he's got "a ton of stuff on Armstrong" why doesn't he release it to the press? I think your friend is just either jealous or bitter. Firstly I don't think he's a saint. No one is. Secondly, until it's proven not through allegations but with hard proof that he is doping He's innoncent in my book. Third, He's probably the most tested cyclist on the Pro tour. Since they can pretty much test randomly at anytime and anywhere. If they haven't found anything yet, then for now there is nothing there.

[budster101]

He also just said this, which I missed:

"my best friend from childhood...is on the top domestic pro team in north america, and he is pretty much the only one who isn't 'lubed' up. he said people just assume he does that stuff too because everyone else on the team does, lol."

You don't see the irony here?
Your buddy lubes and he's feeling guilty... so he projects this onto Lance.

[budster101]

"Blood doping" refers to any illicit method of boosting an athlete's red blood-cell supply in advance of competition. The typical adult male's hematocrit—the percentage of his blood that is composed of red blood cells—hovers around 45. Since red blood cells carry oxygen through the bloodstream, increasing the number of them allows an athlete's blood to deliver oxygen to muscles more efficiently, reducing fatigue and giving the athlete an edge. Endurance athletes often train at high altitude for precisely this reason. The lower air pressure and diminished atmospheric oxygen at altitude spur the body to generate extra red blood cells, and can bump the hematocrit up two or three (non-illicit) percentage points.

Athletes can get a bigger—and illegal—boost by injecting themselves with erythropoietin (EPO), a hormone that stimulates RBC production. A urine test for artificial EPO was introduced in 1997, but it's not foolproof; while testable traces of artificial EPO disappear from an athlete's body within four days, the hormone's effects are strongest three weeks after injection.

So, tell me why a guy with the second highest VO2max need to do this?

[Don Pickett]

Originally Posted by mr. burns

you guys seriously don't know anything.

Really? Post your palmares, and I'll post mine. Post how many thousands of miles you train and race a year, and I will post the same info. Post the names of all the industry people and racers you know, and I will do the same.

I've been in the cycling scene for a long time, dude. I've forgotten more than you will ever know.