[Laminar]

Except that Ford's quality is now on par with Toyota.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I owned one many years ago. It was perky, but lived in the shop most of the time.

I love the SHOs (I kind of have a thing for underrated fast sedans). The nice thing about the new one is that it would use a mass-produced engine, not a niche engine primarily designed out-of-house.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

2010 is going to be a huge year for Ford...the new Taurus, the new Fusion, the Verve:

Actually, the 2010 Taurus and 2010 Fusion are just a few months away. The 2011 Fiesta, 2011 Focus and several other Euro-Focus platform models are about one year away.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I love the SHOs (I kind of have a thing for underrated fast sedans). The nice thing about the new one is that it would use a mass-produced engine, not a niche engine primarily designed out-of-house.

I suppose mine used to be considered an "underrated fast" coupe. Though I'm finding that most people can spot the badge rather quickly these days.

"Is that the new M?"
"Yep."
"May I sit in it?"
"Nope."

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Except that Ford's quality is now on par with Toyota.

Toyota have gotten that bad?

[Laminar]

LOLZ all caps

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

I believe it is a bit bigger than the Mondeo and most likely built on a Volvo(ish) platform

and the Euro Mondeo four doors is as big as the Volvo S80, let me ask something stupid… the american cars being 'that big' is a cultural thing or what?, I mean, are your streets, your roads, your garages that big?, I know this sounds silly but I don't get the fascination towards cars that big.

Well, they're going down then if they think that.

Over the last two weeks, I've spoken to numerous folks who've been die-hard Ford buyers and they're abandoning the brand left, right and centre.

As am I. I have three Fords and as soon as they start dying, I'm off the brand for good.

Design, build quality and parts price have all gone to crap.

Doofy… you are from UK, right?, I don't read the UK media on a daily basis but when I do they use to name the Fords, Mondeo and Focus mainly, as the reference for the rest of the cars… which makes me wonder, does Ford have factories in UK?.

Just curious… what cars are getting those (ex)die-hard Ford fans… german steel maybe?, cause when it comes to cars you're as good as the amount you spend on marketing.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Except that Ford's quality is now on par with Toyota.

'Quality' is a pretty subjective term. Perceived quality of Toyota still far outstrips all US automakers combined. I'm not saying it's right, but the US took to long to get it's **** together, just because Ford has been making their vehicles to a higher standard lately does nothing for their overall image.

If I had a family and was looking to buy a nice reliable boring people mover I'd buy Toyota in a heartbeat, even spend several thousand more on it.

[Dakar V]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

and the Euro Mondeo four doors is as big as the Volvo S80, let me ask something stupid… the american cars being 'that big' is a cultural thing or what?, I mean, are your streets, your roads, your garages that big?, I know this sounds silly but I don't get the fascination towards cars that big.

I think it's about comfort when inside the vehicle.

[sek929]

It's also about more than half our population being obese.

[Dakar V]

I thought about making that comment, but I passed.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by angelmb 

Doofy… you are from UK, right?

Yup.

Originally Posted by angelmb 

I don't read the UK media on a daily basis but when I do they use to name the Fords, Mondeo and Focus mainly, as the reference for the rest of the cars… which makes me wonder, does Ford have factories in UK?

We used to. Not so sure about now - there's been a load of factories shutting down and moving production overseas. I haven't been paying too much attention, to be honest.

Originally Posted by angelmb 

Just curious… what cars are getting those (ex)die-hard Ford fans… german steel maybe?, cause when it comes to cars you're as good as the amount you spend on marketing.

Bearing in mind that most of the folks I spoke to are commercial users...

Some are going with German (Merc Vito).
Some are going with French (Renault whateveritis).
Some are going with Vauxhall.

I'll be going Vito for the two vans, I reckon. Got about ten years to think about the car (which is just an occasional lend-it-out-to-people vehicle, so only does a couple of thousand a year tops).

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by sek929 

'Quality' is a pretty subjective term. Perceived quality of Toyota still far outstrips all US automakers combined. I'm not saying it's right, but the US took to long to get it's **** together, just because Ford has been making their vehicles to a higher standard lately does nothing for their overall image.

This is absolutely right.

[sek929]

Toyota is also one of the only car companies that doesn't publicly announce recalls. I found this out while looking for Tacomas. In fact, after doing much research I found that my GMC had a similar (if not better) overall reliability ratings than the Toyota Tacoma.

However, if you took both trucks, set them side by side, and had a regular Joe pick which one he thought was better 9 times out of 10 I'd bet he'd pick the Toyota.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well, they're going down then if they think that.

Over the last two weeks, I've spoken to numerous folks who've been die-hard Ford buyers and they're abandoning the brand left, right and centre.

As am I. I have three Fords and as soon as they start dying, I'm off the brand for good.

Design, build quality and parts price have all gone to crap.

Well, that settles that, doesn't it? Haven't been paying attention the last couple of years, when Ford quality has been ranked as the best of the Big Three (or former Big Three), have you? You need to let Ford know that the numerous folks you know are going to bankrupt it, so they can hurry and fix things up for them.

[Doofy]

This may or may not be related to this discussion about quality control...

I've had a lot of Japanese guitars through my hands lately, bought in the US, UK and France. All these guitars were made in the same two factories (Japan and Korea).

The US bought ones are universally crap. Rough fit and finish, bad routing, feel tight, etc.. I doubt they'll be able to be rescued without getting the woodworking tools out. The euro ones are without fault (the French being the best).

Now going onto a forum, I notice that a lot of Americans are having trouble with the fit and finish on said guitars - especially the Korean made ones. But I haven't had a single problem with the euro-bought Korean ones.

Given the uniform crapicity of the US-bought ones and the uniform-goodness of the euro ones, I suspect that because the US is more of a "buyer beware" place than Europe, all the guitars rejected by euro QC are being shipped to the US. Or maybe the Japanese company knows that its euro QC will reject the crappy ones so it sends them to the US as a matter of course.

I'm just sayin', since it shows that two 'identical' items in two different countries aren't always to the same quality. Maybe it's the same with cars. I know for sure that our Ferraris are better than the Ferraris sold in the US, for example.

So ???

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Well, that settles that, doesn't it? Haven't been paying attention the last couple of years, when Ford quality has been ranked as the best of the Big Three (or former Big Three), have you?

No, I meant I haven't been paying attention to what factories they're building them in. I've been paying attention to the end product quality, 'coz I own some of 'em (two of which are due for replacement).

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

You need to let Ford know that the numerous folks you know are going to bankrupt it

Are you mental or something? Really, Karl, I worry about your mental health sometimes.

I mean, I merely inform as to what's going on with Ford here and you get all pissy about it and make out I've said something I haven't. Dick.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Given the uniform crapicity of the US-bought ones and the uniform-goodness of the euro ones, I suspect that because the US is more of a "buyer beware" place than Europe, all the guitars rejected by euro QC are being shipped to the US. Or maybe the Japanese company knows that its euro QC will reject the crappy ones so it sends them to the US as a matter of course.

I also think the two are connected: IMO the distinction is also to which country/continent the cars are sold.
US: The engine is important, even if it is anemic, it should ideally be a V8 -- even if it is coupled to a 19th-century 3-speed automatic gearbox. Interior fit and finish? Not so important. A friend of mine got a (very) Oldsmobile with leather seats, not too old. But the leather seats looked like crap: it was broken in numerous places and looked like it has seen the wear and tear of a taxi. Dash was made of obviously cheap plastic.
Japan: Electronics. A (now) ten-year old Toyota Corolla had a touch screen gps system with two drive slots, one for MP3 CDs and the other for the map cds. In a land where even toilets have remote controls, this is not entirely surprising. Even on current Mercs you have to switch CDs, ugh! As far as other technologies go, don't do anything revolutionary, it's all about kaizen. People don't mind if designs are blatantly copied from European auto manufacturers.
Germany: Quality of components is very important. The new Polo has rear view mirrors that are rated to speeds at up to 250 km/h (which it probably won't even reach if you throw it out of a plane). You can get all creature comforts even in Golfs (although I admit the design is not terribly exciting). People want to/have to keep their cars for a long time (we still often pay cars in cash). We wouldn't accept cars with leaf springs as an integral part of their suspension or 3-speed gear boxes.