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ArcaneWare/IntelliInnovations Nasty Practices
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, USA
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Hello,
I am a big fan of the Library application provided by ArcaneWare ( http://www.arcaneware.com/). As soon as I saw the first version on VersionTracker ( http://www.versiontracker.com/) I knew I would one day register the application, especially since I found the registration price to be quite affordable and the application well worth the price. I have simply been waiting for some of the much needed improvements which many users have called for on the ArcaneWare support forum and that I view as necessary before I begin using Library.
However, I have recently been appalled by the actions of ArcaneWare through their "SiteAdmin" (username paul) on the company's customer support and discussion message board ( http://www.arcaneware.com/forums/). This site admin (who apparently works for Intelli Innovations, and not ArcaneWare) has recently taken actions to actually sabotage users from helping and sharing ideas with each other via the ArcaneWare message board. Allow me to explain.
On Tuesday July 1, a guest user on this forum posted a topic entitled "Barcode scanner recommendations?" The user was asking for help in finding an inexpensive Mac compatible barcode scanner to use for reading ISBN numbers into the Library application. In that thread was much helpful discussion between various users of Library. For example, one user took the time to test out a barcode reader that he had access to through his work at a physical Library, and reported back to the original poster that indeed that specific barcode reader did work with Library. He even mentioned the model of the barcode reader as "OPT-6125," for the benefit of other users.
Then another user reported back that the barcode reader he tested did not work with Library, and gave an example of the cryptic text it produced instead of a ISBN number. Another user responded and explained why the cryptic text was appearing, and offered to take the time to write some code on his own and make it available freely to other users and the author of Library that would allow for the decrypting of this cryptic output from other types of barcode scanners in order to make them compatible with Library. When reading this I thought, what a great community exists around the Mac - one user helping another and even a developer offering to take his own time to help others out by freely offering an add-on to an all ready good application to help make it better!
Shortly after the time of these postings ArcaneWare entered into a partnership with Intelli Innovations ( http://www.intellisw.com/). This partnership was to allow ArcaneWare to sell a USB based barcode reader on their website which is compatible with the Library application, the reader would be provided by Intelli Innovations. After this partnership was formed someone from either ArcaneWare or Intelli Innovations posted a reply to the ongoing discussion thread, which I have mentioned above, describing the barcode scanner from Intelli now available through ArcaneWare.
After this some users continued to post in the thread describing that they were looking for a more inexpensive solution than that provided by the Arcane-Intelli partnership. When I saw these posts, and recalled how helpful some other users had previously been on the forum, I took an hour of my web browsing time and really tried to search out the best price on the barcode scanner which one user had previously mentioned was compatible with Library since I was also interested in the information. It turned out that the reader one user had mentioned as "OPT-6125" is made by a company called Opticon and its full model number is LGP6125RU1S-000. After some searching I was able to find the scanner for only $120 at three different on-line retailers (links below), so I posted that information to the forum since that price is considerably less than the $200 scanner offered by Arcane-Intelli.
This morning I returned to the ArcaneWare support forum just to see if anyone had responded to my previous post. At first I could not find my post, and I had to search for the thread to which I had posted it. But I soon realized what had happened. A user on the support forum with the screen name paul who apparently works for Intelli had deleted all of the replies in the thread - including all information on compatible barcode scanners, non-compatible scanners, the comments from the kind developer who offered to help improve on the barcode reader compatibility of Library, and finally my post with pricing information on compatible scanners. Then paul replaced all of these useful posts with a single three line message referring users to the scanner available from Arcane-Intelli, and locked the message thread preventing any other users from posting replies.
As I have stated above, I find the Library application to be a great product. I have been impressed by its simplicity, and power. And I find its price to be unbeatable. Yet I have held off on registering thus far because I don't need to make use of the app at just this moment in time, and because I have been waiting for a few improvements I consider vital before I can make use of the application. And indeed I still intend to register the app once those improvements are made, since I do hold such a high opinion of the application. However, I have been appalled by the actions of the message board administration on the ArcaneWare site in this instance. It represents an anti-competitive spirit, and furthermore destroyed much helpful beneficial communication among fellow fans of this application. These are certainly not practices that ArcaneWare's user-base will appreciate, and in the long-run will always hurt any company.
The Players:
ArcaneWare - Maker of Library
http://www.arcaneware.com/
Intelli Innovations - Maker of the ArcaneWare barcode scanner
http://www.intellisw.com/
The Scene of the Crime:
ArcaneWare User Support and Discussion Forum
http://www.arcaneware.com/forums/
The Competitors:
AAA Technologies - USB Based (Mac & Library Compatible) Barcode Scanner - $120
http://www.product-catalog.com/previ...ch&item=451506
POS Warehouse - USB Based (Mac & Library Compatible) Barcode Scanner - $121
http://www.pos-warehouse.com/opticonusb.htm
Sorry, I lost the link to the third retailer.
-----
Stephen M. Sebeny
[email protected]
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, USA
Status:
Offline
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Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
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Offline
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Just to be clear- Company A enters into a partnership to resell Company B's product as an add-on to Company A's product. Subsequently, Company A removes messages, from its own board, which describe how to use products that compete with Company B.
Tough beans, Stephen. Arcaneware signed a deal to make money, and having that information on their site subverts that deal. You may not like it, but that's how business works, and I don't see any fault in their actions. People do it all the time. Get over your sense of entitlement.
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, USA
Status:
Offline
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Do you really feel that deleting posts made by registered owners of Library discussing alternative uses of the program will benefit Arcane in the long-run? (Notice, I didn't say Intelli, which certainly has nothing to lose by this ludicrous behavior as you get to sell yet another overpriced bar code reader.)
Its really just a matter of working WITH one's customers to help them solve a problem, or working AGAINST one's customers to prevent them from being able to use the solution.
ArcaneWare provided a great solution with the release of Library. And I certainly recognize their need to make a profit off of the product. In fact, I personally think they greatly undercharge for the app. But the problem occurred when they decided to start preventing their customers from being able to fully use the solution they provided by censoring information about using the product, and engaging in anti-competitive practices. All for the purpose of making a few extra bucks by selling an add-on, instead of just charging a higher yet fair price for their initial product.
I am absolutely sure that in the long run this will come back to haunt them. When ever a company chooses to challenge or limit their customers instead of working to benefit their customers it will always result in a dissatisfaction in that customer base which will undoubtedly as a result be filled by someone willing to provide an alternative solution and work WITH their customers.
As for Intelli Innovations, I really don't even know what to begin saying about you guys. You have been mistreating your customers for so long its crazy. I'm just happy that the team of open source developers (working on a freely available open source Cocoa framework to do everything your apps do) are all most finished and ready to be released. As for your hardware, that is all ready widely available for 60% of what you charge.
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Last edited by SSebeny; Aug 25, 2003 at 12:45 PM.
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NC, USA
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Originally posted by SSebeny:
ArcaneWare provided a great solution with the release of Library. And I certainly recognize their need to make a profit off of the product. In fact, I personally think they greatly undercharge for the app. But the problem occured when they decided to start preventing their customers from being able to fully use the solution they provided by censoring information about using the product, and engaging in anti-competitive practices. All for the purpose of making a few extra bucks by selling an add-on, instead of just charging a higher yet fair price for their initial product.
[/B]
"Anti-competitive practices"?! Good grief.
From another forum (by me, also applies to this): ArcaneWare and Intelli Innovations want people to buy the ArcaneReader. Duh. Why don't you go to Apple's forums, post about "alternative products from Dell," then see how long those posts stick around? There's no "anti-competitive spirit" here -- there's only two companies who make innovative Mac products who want to be rewarded for their time and effort (read: make money).
- Paul Scandariato, Intelli Innovations, Inc.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Originally posted by paulscan:
"Anti-competitive practices"?! Good grief.
From another forum (by me, also applies to this): ArcaneWare and Intelli Innovations want people to buy the ArcaneReader. Duh. Why don't you go to Apple's forums, post about "alternative products from Dell," then see how long those posts stick around? There's no "anti-competitive spirit" here -- there's only two companies who make innovative Mac products who want to be rewarded for their time and effort (read: make money).
- Paul Scandariato, Intelli Innovations, Inc.
You might not find posts about alternative products from Dell, but you may find info on how to get a FireWire camera that isn't an iSight working with iChat AV. Or, you may see a post from someone who's having trouble with his Internet connection, on an ISP that isn't EarthLink. Or you might see a post from someone asking for help installing a third-party RAM DIMM or graphics card in a Mac. Or someone who's got a question about wireless networking, and he's got a LinkSys wireless router instead of an AirPort base station. As long as the topic relates to Apple-made computers, OS's, or other software, it would be on topic.
On MacNN, at least, we talk about alternatives to Apple stuff all the time.
I think the guy has a valid point.
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NC, USA
Status:
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Originally posted by CharlesS:
You might not find posts about alternative products from Dell, but you may find info on how to get a FireWire camera that isn't an iSight working with iChat AV. Or, you may see a post from someone who's having trouble with his Internet connection, on an ISP that isn't EarthLink. Or you might see a post from someone asking for help installing a third-party RAM DIMM or graphics card in a Mac. Or someone who's got a question about wireless networking, and he's got a LinkSys wireless router instead of an AirPort base station. As long as the topic relates to Apple-made computers, OS's, or other software, it would be on topic.
I think the guy has a valid point.
I suppose I have to agree on some level. However, you you won't find on Apple's site is a topic like "Finding a cheaper iSight alternative". Apple wants people who want a superior iChat AV experience to buy an iSight. If you have an existing camera, then perhaps people discuss that as well. I cut the barcode scanner thread short when discussions by Stephen began regarding "finding a new, cheaper barcode scanner alternative." That's when it got out of hand, from a business perspective.
Every time ArcaneWare sells a barcode scanner, they make money. Having to deal with the support requests and calls from people who read that forum asking "does it work with X scanner from Y Company?" would be a support nightmare. ArcaneWare knows that things are peachy with the scanner it provides, so, that's what it supports and encourages discussion about.
On MacNN, at least, we talk about alternatives to Apple stuff all the time.
Of course, that's why MacNN is here. 
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Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Over there
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Library is not tied to a specific product. Nowhere does it say Library must only be used with Intelli Innovations, like they could get away with saying that anyway. Library only supports a specific scanner is another thing. The two are sold separately and are meant to complement one another. Yet you can purchase Library by itself and if it works with another scanner so be it. So why stop users checking to see if it works with another scanner?
Sure they want to make money, but it seems a bit unethical to delete comments suggesting other scanners. Library is an app to catalogue book collections, not an application for a third party Intelli Innovations scanner.
Therefore I feel he has a valid point.
For the interest of everyone this should be resolved. There must be a better way to deal with these kind of posts?
I recently registered Library and like it very much. I've sent quite a bit of feedback to the developer and he appears take it on board, and I do hope the suggestions roll in to future updates. If I had the spare cash I would buy their scanner since it is supported to work together. Plus Library is dirt cheap.
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: NC, USA
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Originally posted by Simon X:
For the interest of everyone this should be resolved. There must be a better way to deal with these kind of posts?
Stephen has decided to forward this into 4 different messageboards, along with letters to every major Mac news organization on the web. I've spent hours this afternoon trying to solve the problems he's caused both ArcaneWare and Intelli Innovations in just a few minutes.
Let's let this forum end here. Stephen, if you'd like to discuss this, MacNN isn't the place for it. Call me.
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: -
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Last edited by ambush; Aug 25, 2003 at 02:32 PM.
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
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Last edited by CheesePuff; Aug 25, 2003 at 02:34 PM.
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Last edited by ambush; Aug 25, 2003 at 02:32 PM.
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Last edited by ambush; Aug 25, 2003 at 02:37 PM.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Illinois
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Originally posted by paulscan:
Stephen has decided to forward this into 4 different messageboards, along with letters to every major Mac news organization on the web. I've spent hours this afternoon trying to solve the problems he's caused both ArcaneWare and Intelli Innovations in just a few minutes.
Let's let this forum end here. Stephen, if you'd like to discuss this, MacNN isn't the place for it. Call me.
MacNN IS the perfect place to talk about it. You must remain civil here. Allow the deliberations to take place in public. I am interested to find out why a company such as yourself would take to removing support threads on your forum.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
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Originally posted by paulscan:
I've spent hours this afternoon trying to solve the problems he's caused...
Eh?
How did he cause a problem, he didn't delete the support threads?
What's the problem in relaying how your company conduct business? You have yet to say SSebeny has stated anything false.
He's causing a problem by telling the truth?
Here... I'm going to make an actual attempt to be helpful:
Take a step back and think about how other people perceive this.
They think you are frightened by the competition. Why else would you not allow discussion of a cheaper model?
On the other hand, allowing those threads to remain would have shown you have confidence in your product. Despite the fact there are cheaper alternatives, your product has something to offer that is worth the extra expense.
There is also clearly a desire for a cheaper scanner to be used with Library. The deletion leads to the conclusion you don't care, or, even worse, that you're actually price gouging.
None of this has to do with the actual reasons behind behind why you did it, no one can know that except for you. The above however, are the obvious conclusions everyone is coming to, and a response that you did it so you could be "rewarded for their time and effort (read: make money)" reinforces those conclusions. Perception is more important than reality here, and any justification you make is going to have to address those conclusions, even if they have no basis in reality.
May I humbly submit you have doubled any damage you were trying to avoid by deleting that thread, and an apology and reinstatement of the thread would solve your "problems" easily and with minimal fuss.
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Ambrosia - el Presidente
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Rochester, NY
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Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
MacNN IS the perfect place to talk about it. You must remain civil here. Allow the deliberations to take place in public. I am interested to find out why a company such as yourself would take to removing support threads on your forum.
The company owns the web boards that people are posting to. They own the servers, they pay for the bandwidth, they set everything up, they admin it, and they can delete any posts they deem necessary.
With that said, it might be short-sighted to delete posts from customers, even if they are discussing other products. Make another web board where people can discuss other third party products with the Library software, and be done with it.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Durham, NC
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Well, at any rate, I dl'd the demo of Library from its current publisher, ChronoPath, and tried it out with the modified CueCat scanner I got for 9 bucks via eBay. It works great. Now I have to figure out whether I like Library or Booxter better before I spend cash on either..
If you search for "cuecat USB" on eBay you should find dozens of these cheapo scanners available. I think you have to get the "modified" one to work w/this software. Scanning a barcode w/it is exactly equivalent to typing the numbers in and hitting Return..
P.S. I found out this would work because the makers of Booxter come right out and tell you that this li'l gadget is a great accessory for their software. Makes me lean towards paying for Booxter. Though if either of them come up with a Palm-sync method, that's got my $$. But that's another thread..
Y.
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