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iCloud: Place Your Bets (Page 2)
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Waragainstsleep
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Jun 2, 2011, 05:24 AM
 
Most of my music is NOT purchased from iTunes. Is Apple going to match my tracks to those in their catalogue to save me an upload? Probably not, but even if its smart enough to match MP3s that were encoded with iTunes and tagged via Gracenote there is surely going to be a way to create blank MP3/AAC files with false metadata so you can get access to any song you want from the streaming locker by copying a fake into your iTunes library.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Big Mac
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Jun 2, 2011, 05:32 AM
 
They already do match your non-iTunes downloaded library to the iTunes Store equivalents (assuming they exist) and have done so for some time (probably since the debut of the iTMS or shortly thereafter).

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 2, 2011, 05:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
They already do match your non-iTunes downloaded library to the iTunes Store equivalents (assuming they exist) and have done so for some time (probably since the debut of the iTMS or shortly thereafter).
You mean for cover search? True.

However, the point about illegitimately gaining access to content by faking metadata is a good one.

I'm thinking iTunes-BOUGHT content streamed from their servers, and everything else either streamed from the home machine/Airport-attached NAS, or — unlikely IMO — uploaded to their servers and streamed from there.
     
Big Mac
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Jun 2, 2011, 06:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
You mean for cover search? True.
I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. If you click the triangle next to an album you have in your library it will take you to the store and show you the album, whether it was downloaded from the store, downloaded elsewhere or ripped from your CD. I know it's not perfect, but I haven't seen it fail often either.

However, the point about illegitimately gaining access to content by faking metadata is a good one.
It would be extraordinarily time consuming to build up a list of false tracks perfectly named just to get access to the real thing in the cloud. It would take much less time and effort to download the real tracks illicitly.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 2, 2011, 06:12 AM
 
I wonder if the labels and publishers agree, though…
     
Salty
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Jun 2, 2011, 01:36 PM
 
This makes a bit of sense as they move to SSDs and will have to make up for the lack of local storage those provide. But ... seriously, this is gonna save me 34 gigs, and saturate my internet connection if I use it. Doesn't sound that worth while.

This better tie in to iOS 5 in a big way that isn't JUST music or I'm going to be profoundly disappointed. There had at least better be a free @icloud.com email addy that comes with exchange syncing for calendars and addresses to combat Google. If not then this is a total non-starter.
     
Atheist
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Jun 2, 2011, 01:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
This makes a bit of sense as they move to SSDs and will have to make up for the lack of local storage those provide. But ... seriously, this is gonna save me 34 gigs, and saturate my internet connection if I use it. Doesn't sound that worth while.
This brings up a good point. MS and Apple want us in the cloud and the ISPs are more and more using caps and tiered pricing on usage. Somethings got to give to make the cloud really useful.
     
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Jun 2, 2011, 01:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
This brings up a good point. MS and Apple want us in the cloud and the ISPs are more and more using caps and tiered pricing on usage. Somethings got to give to make the cloud really useful.
The OS developers' little world of straight-to-the-server gigabit doesn't really translate into the wild, does it?
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Atheist
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Jun 2, 2011, 02:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
The OS developers' little world of straight-to-the-server gigabit doesn't really translate into the wild, does it?
Nope... especially for those of us living in developing countries with relatively slow and expensive internet connectivity.
     
Salty
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Jun 2, 2011, 02:12 PM
 
That's the thing. My iPhone has 500 megs of data a month and I'm paying a really good rate for that. (I pay 53 bucks a months after taxes and I'm on all grandfathered plans) I'd rather make sure that I have a 32 gig model than pay an extra 20 bucks a month so that I can stream my music library to the device often. Besides I can only imagine how buggered AT&T's network would get in the states if everyone was streaming their library!

iCloud should really have more to do with non-music files, though I doubt it would. If for example I could access all my Pages files remotely so that could proof read them on my phone, that'd be awesome
     
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Jun 2, 2011, 03:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
The OS developers' little world of straight-to-the-server gigabit doesn't really translate into the wild, does it?
I don't know how bad it is in the UK, but here you can negotiate. We're in the process of switching from Rogers to Bell's Fibe service. I complained about the bandwidth cap of 75GB and the rep instantly upped that to 200GB, no questions asked. If I go over that, it'll cost me a $1/GB, maxed at $50.

So, I've got, worst case scenario, unlimited access for $120/month - 25down/7up, soon to be upgraded to 50 and then 100.
     
Doofy
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Jun 2, 2011, 03:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
I don't know how bad it is in the UK, but here you can negotiate. We're in the process of switching from Rogers to Bell's Fibe service. I complained about the bandwidth cap of 75GB and the rep instantly upped that to 200GB, no questions asked. If I go over that, it'll cost me a $1/GB, maxed at $50.

So, I've got, worst case scenario, unlimited access for $120/month - 25down/7up, soon to be upgraded to 50 and then 100.
Cap depends on how much you want to pay (with my expensive ISP, it's 25 quid for 50 GB, 35 quid for 100 GB, 90 quid for no cap).

Down depends on where you live (mostly 4 mbps).

Up is usually no more than 800 kbps, unless on SDSL (which you can't get in a lot of places).
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Salty
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Jun 2, 2011, 03:17 PM
 
Shaw is thankfully upping their caps too and their upload. Still though, I really hope iCloud is more than just streaming music or backing things up. I have trouble seeing Apple investing in a huge data centre like the NC one just for a feature that nobody's been clamouring for.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 2, 2011, 03:31 PM
 
The caps in the UK are annoyingly rigid and based on very dated wholesale deals. If you are lucky enough to live where its available, you can get a nice shiny 20-50mb FTTC based connection with no limit for less than anyone rural will pay for an 8mb ADSL2 connection with a 50-60GB cap. You can get an 8mb business line with a 200GB limit for ~£100 a month.

I had a really nice quality line that got good speeds all day every day but had to trade it in as the ISP would cut me off and charge £1.50/GB over my 50GB cap which was just unacceptable. My new service sucks balls from late afternoon until about midnight but I don't think they even track my usage and if they do their policy is to throttle speeds during peak times if I go over the limit which makes no difference as they throttle it constantly anyway during peak times. At least I can still get email though, being cut off was just not something I could live with for one week of every month. I also get lots of TV channels for no extra price with the new system.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Salty
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Jun 2, 2011, 03:37 PM
 
I would have thought in a European country there'd be more regulation for these sorts of things.
     
Doofy
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Jun 2, 2011, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
The caps in the UK are annoyingly rigid and based on very dated wholesale deals. If you are lucky enough to live where its available, you can get a nice shiny 20-50mb FTTC based connection with no limit for less than anyone rural will pay for an 8mb ADSL2 connection with a 50-60GB cap.
Foreign-types should note that "8mb" is actually "up to 8mb". I don't know anyone who gets more than 4.5 out of theirs - you've pretty much got to be sitting on top of the exchange.

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
You can get an 8mb business line with a 200GB limit for ~£100 a month.
And, as illustrated here, there's a lot of difference between ISPs. Mine will do an 8 IP 8mb uncapped business-class line for £90.
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Doofy
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Jun 2, 2011, 03:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
I would have thought in a European country there'd be more regulation for these sorts of things.
Despite popular belief, Europe is nowhere near as regulated as North America.
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Salty
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Jun 2, 2011, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Despite popular belief, Europe is nowhere near as regulated as North America.
I always look at American people on TV really funny when they complain about regulation. Canadians may be taxed fairly heavily but we get a lot for that money. I can't imagine trying to squeak by in America on a low paying job.
     
Phileas
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Jun 2, 2011, 07:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
Despite popular belief, Europe is nowhere near as regulated as North America.
Try opening a business in Germany/France/Italy and then report back.

The UK is far more unregulated than the rest of Europe, but even there regulations far outweigh what we're up against over here. *


* in my personal experience.
     
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Jun 3, 2011, 04:00 AM
 
News reports confused on revenue split of $25 iCloud service.

We'd heard that Universal was the only holdout, and now CNET says the deal is done -- Apple has reportedly signed all four major record labels for its upcoming iCloud service. We'll be bringing you all the confirmed details on June 6th, but while you wait, here's some food for thought: the Los Angeles Times says that Apple will eventually charge somewhere around $25 a year for a subscription to the cloud. That will help supplement the 58 percent piece of the pie it's planning to take from the music industry for songs distributed though the network, and possibly some ad revenue as well. 30 percent will reportedly go to the labels, and another 12 percent to publishers, who will apparently be signing their own agreements with Apple tomorrow.

Update: There's actually an interesting discrepancy between the two sources here: the LA Times reports that Apple's taking that nice, juicy 58 percent, but CNET says that the labels will take 58 percent while Apple claims its traditional 30 percent instead. We're investigating.

Update 2: The LA Times has updated its piece, with different percentages still -- reportedly, Apple will take 18 percent, publishers get 12 percent, and labels 70 percent of the proceedings.
If it's $25 to stream my own music, no thanks. If it's $25 to stream any music on iTunes (like Rdio or Spotify), then maybe.

I wouldn't be surprised to see "free to stream your iTunes purchases + some featured stuff on iTunes", with an upgrade to everything for $25. The up-sell is the soul of selling, after all.
     
Phileas
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Jun 3, 2011, 07:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
If it's $25 to stream my own music, no thanks. If it's $25 to stream any music on iTunes (like Rdio or Spotify), then maybe
I can't see that happen, not at that price point.
     
The Final Dakar
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Jun 3, 2011, 09:08 AM
 
If only they could roll it into mobileme, because, you know, its virtually worthless.
     
imitchellg5
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Jun 3, 2011, 11:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
If only they could roll it into mobileme, because, you know, its virtually worthless.
So true. Plus my MobileMe subscription goes until 2013 due to purchasing extensions with new Macs...
     
SSharon
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Jun 3, 2011, 11:57 AM
 
Would anyone here pay $25 to stream your own music? I wouldn't.
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Big Mac
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Jun 3, 2011, 12:55 PM
 
Neither would I.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
Salty
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Jun 3, 2011, 01:04 PM
 
I can't imagine 25 dollars a month. Especially when a Zune pass Napster cost 15 a month. Streaming your own music for 25 dollars a month is insane. Streaming any music off of iTunes for 25 is still nuts given how much is available from the other stores. Sure they might not be as big but...

This sounds like a really sneaky way for Jobs to back track on his comment about people wanting to own music.

iCloud better be about something more than music!
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 3, 2011, 01:12 PM
 
A Year, Salty...25 a Year.
     
Salty
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Jun 3, 2011, 01:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
A Year, Salty...25 a Year.
Hmmm 25 bucks a year? That's not that bad. Can I host my own domain on it?
     
SSharon
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Jun 3, 2011, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Hmmm 25 bucks a year? That's not that bad. Can I host my own domain on it?
Sure, but you can't have any flash on your site and Apple needs to approve it before it goes live.
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ort888
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Jun 4, 2011, 05:03 PM
 
I can guarantee with 100% certainty that the rumors of the new Airport Extreme are true.

How do I know? Because I just bought one.

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Waragainstsleep
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Jun 4, 2011, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I can guarantee with 100% certainty that the rumors of the new Airport Extreme are true.

How do I know? Because I just bought one.
Hate to go with the super obvious but where is your proof of this?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
turtle777
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Jun 4, 2011, 06:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I can guarantee with 100% certainty that the rumors of the new Airport Extreme are true.

How do I know? Because I just bought one.
WHAT rumors about it are true ?

The rumor in this thread was that AEX is sold out. Obviously, that can't be true if you just bought one.

-t
     
ajprice
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Jun 4, 2011, 07:05 PM
 
Macrumors and Appleinsider are both talking about new Airports being iOS based like the AppleTV.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
Doofy
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Jun 4, 2011, 07:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
Macrumors and Appleinsider are both talking about new Airports being iOS based like the AppleTV.


Who gives a toss what OS they're running? It's not like you interact with an AirPort except via a native control app.
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ajprice
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Jun 4, 2011, 07:27 PM
 
Seems to be more about interaction between the Airport and the Mac/iOS device than between you and the Airport.

Between this and iCloud, the general idea is that updates could download to the Airport/Time Capsule and wirelessly send to the Macs and devices (wireless iOS syncing, download once and send to multiple devices if you have more than one Mac and/or an iPhone and an iPad etc). Instead of as it is now where you individually download updates. Things like AirPlay could be expanded too as everything is running a similar system.

It's all a lot of if and maybe until next week but an iOS router and cloud storage does have a lot of potential.

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
ort888
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Jun 5, 2011, 10:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Hate to go with the super obvious but where is your proof of this?
I mean I bought one of the old ones, which guarantees Apple will be putting out a new one.

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turtle777
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Jun 5, 2011, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I mean I bought one of the old ones, which guarantees Apple will be putting out a new one.
Touché

-t
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 5, 2011, 11:06 AM
 
Well played.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Salty
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Jun 5, 2011, 05:04 PM
 
I'm surprised they won't be calling this the Magic Router

I'm glad I have a first gen AirPort Express, though it is starting to skip a lot for iTunes use, so I look forward to a new 802.11n one and all the other additional goodies.
     
ajprice
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Jun 6, 2011, 05:31 AM
 
T minus some hours until Stevenote....

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
SSharon
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Jun 6, 2011, 09:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
T minus some hours until Stevenote....
I totally forgot about WWDC over the weekend and then saw this thread and realized it is today! Now I only have to count down hours instead of days.

Is it at the usual 10 or 11am pacific?
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ajprice
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Jun 6, 2011, 09:34 AM
 
Steve Jobs talks iCloud, iOS 5, OS X Lion and more at WWDC, liveblog starts at 10AM PT on June 6th! -- Engadget

07:00AM - Hawaii
10:00AM - Pacific
11:00AM - Mountain
12:00PM - Central
01:00PM - Eastern
06:00PM - London
07:00PM - Paris
09:00PM - Moscow
02:00AM - Tokyo (June 7th)

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
lpkmckenna  (op)
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Jun 6, 2011, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Ok, iCloud is coming. But what is it?

For certain, it will be a digital storage locker for your music. Anything else?
One point for me.
How about folding MobileMe and iWork.com into it? My guess is yes.
Two.
Will iCloud finally free us all from tethered syncing to iTunes? God I hope so.
Three.
Will it be free? My guess is yes, at least for a basic package. It's about damn time for free address syncing for iOS, at least. And I can't imagine paying money for music storage when I've got several GBs in my own phone.
Four.
Well then, I guess I'm pretty clever, huh?
     
lpkmckenna  (op)
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Jun 6, 2011, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
If they stream from their own iTunes Store, they don't require more storage space, just lots of bandwidth. If they don't have a version a song, only then would they need an uploaded copy.
I totally called this one too! Not the streaming part, just the way iTunes Match only uploads stuff it doesn't already have in the iTunes Store.
     
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Jun 6, 2011, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
I totally called this one too! Not the streaming part, just the way iTunes Match only uploads stuff it doesn't already have in the iTunes Store.
Good call. I'm predicting right now that Transformers 3 will have giant robots fighting each other.

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Jun 6, 2011, 04:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Good call. I'm predicting right now that Transformers 3 will have giant robots fighting each other.
and a hot-ass brunette wearing Daisy Dukes? Sign me up!
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Jun 6, 2011, 06:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
Good call. I'm predicting right now that Transformers 3 will have giant robots fighting each other.
Oh, are you guys talking about the sequel to Megan Fox's Boobs Bouncing in Slow Motion 2?
     
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Jun 6, 2011, 07:10 PM
 
Jennifer's Body was actually an OK movie.

Oh and this iCloud thing is pretty meh.
     
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Jun 6, 2011, 07:14 PM
 
Grandma disagrees.

Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
     
 
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