[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

I haven't watched Conan in quite a while. Is Andy still around? It was always so weird when he would be sitting off-camera in the chair next to a guest and the guest couldn't figure out whether to ignore him or not.

Johnny Carson managed to do fine with that setup. Maybe it's the camera man.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by stevesnj 

I will purposly not watch Leno because of what he did to Conan. Hope most of America is smart enough to do the same. THough I do like Jay Leno's Garage. He should stick to cars.

Hold on. Leno did not do this to Conan. Conan did it to himself. Several years ago, he tried to weasel himself into Leno's chair, and the problem was he didn't have the following that Leno had. A lot of people can't stomach Conan.

I wondered to myself if Conan would have waited another 10 years when Leno does retire, maybe he would slip right in, but again, Conan does not fit that time slot.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Several years ago, he tried to weasel himself into Leno's chair, and the problem was he didn't have the following that Leno had. A lot of people can't stomach Conan.

Wow, and Conan eats babies, too.

NBC enticed Conan to sign back on with them by offering the Tonight Show gig. They weaseled Conan into staying when it would have smarter for him to leave.

[Railroader]

I don't really have a comment about the late night show fiasco, just don't know enough of the facts.

But, this is certainly true for me:

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

A lot of people can't stomach Conan.

I just can't watch Conan. I get about 2-3 minutes into his show and feel uncomfortable and change the channel. The guy just creeps me out. Not funny to me. I am not a big fan of his humor.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Say what you will about Conan, but despite the fact he was permitted to say whatever he wanted last night on his last show on NBC, he took the high road and was very gracious.

Conan didn't put himself in this situation, that is ALL on the idiot NBC execs:

1) THEY are the ones who didn't want him going to another network so they promised him The Tonight Show

2) THEY are the ones who gave Leno a new show at 10:00.

3) THEY are the ones who pulled the plug on Leno's show

4) THEY are the ones who wanted to essentially disregard any contractual obligations they had to both Conan AND Leno by trying to move The Tonight Show w/ Conan to 12:35 and moving Leno to 11:35 and then, when that didn't fly with either one, by wanting to give The Tonight Show back to Leno at 11:35

You may not like Conan, but NONE of this is his fault.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Say what you will about Conan, but despite the fact he was permitted to say whatever he wanted last night on his last show on NBC, he took the high road and was very gracious.

Conan didn't put himself in this situation, that is ALL on the idiot NBC execs:

1) THEY are the ones who didn't want him going to another network so they promised him The Tonight Show

2) THEY are the ones who gave Leno a new show at 10:00.

3) THEY are the ones who pulled the plug on Leno's show

4) THEY are the ones who wanted to essentially disregard any contractual obligations they had to both Conan AND Leno by trying to move The Tonight Show w/ Conan to 12:35 and moving Leno to 11:35 and then, when that didn't fly with either one, by wanting to give The Tonight Show back to Leno at 11:35

You may not like Conan, but NONE of this is his fault.

I love Conan, and I think he got royally screwed here, but part of it was his fault. His ratings sucked. Even before Leno went on at 10 and ruined his lead-in he had already lost the 1st place ratings to Letterman.

I mean lets face the facts: if Conan's ratings had been awesome he would still have the Tonight Show at 11:35. Leno would just be out of a show.

I think it's funny all the support for Conan during his last week, because if all of those people had been watching in the first place it wouldn't have come to this.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I just can't watch Conan. I get about 2-3 minutes into his show and feel uncomfortable and change the channel. The guy just creeps me out. Not funny to me. I am not a big fan of his humor.

No one minds if you don't like Conan.

Admit to liking Leno, however, and even your pets aren't safe.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

No one minds if you don't like Conan.

Admit to liking Leno, however, and even your pets aren't safe.

qft

[Buckaroo]

I think I have the solution. We need Industrial Light & Magic to create a 3D Johnny Carson and put him in at 11:35.

Johnny Carson is the Tonight Show, everyone else is just filling in for him.

[MacinTommy]

Type f*cknbc.com (the actual word not with a star)

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

No one minds if you don't like Conan.

Admit to liking Leno, however, and even your pets aren't safe.

Let's put it this way: I'd rather watch Conan than Leno.

I am a Ferguson kind-of-humor guy.

[shabbasuraj]

It will be obvious that when LENO returns the ratings will never be the same. Letterman will continue to PWN Leno....

Then what NBC? You had Conan.. now you have nothing.

Longterm program planning FAIL.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj 

It will be obvious that when LENO returns the ratings will never be the same. Letterman will continue to PWN Leno....

Then what NBC? You had Conan.. now you have nothing.

Longterm program planning FAIL.

I don't believe Leno's will be what they use to be for a year, but they will easily beat Conan's.

[The Final Dakar]

So NBC pulled all Conan's Tonight SHow episodes from Hulu and their site.

Also, how about Leno doing an ad for Letterman. Desperation makes for some interesting friends.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

So NBC pulled all Conan's Tonight SHow episodes from Hulu and their site.

That's about the most asinine thing I think they have ever done. I'm not a fan of Conan, but withdrawing content from your site that would have drawn millions of hits, STOOPID!

[The Final Dakar]

I'm just curious on the reasoning behind it.

[SpaceMonkey]

For all we know it was part of the deal with Conan. Maybe the content goes with him.

[Laminar]

Obama Rips Jay Leno is Today's BIG Thing - MAY 04, 2010

Well done, Obama's writers.

[Railroader]

Anyone see the 60 Minutes interview with Coocoo? He whines and complains about how he's being stifled, lost such an opportunity, treat so horribly, and lost money. The segment prior to Conan's was perfectly placed. A story about illegal immigrants dying while trying to enter into America because living conditions are so poor in Mexico.

I wonder if the immigrants would have complain about being given millions of dollars to forcibly quit a TV show. Actually, no I don't.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Anyone see the 60 Minutes interview with Coocoo? He whines and complains about how he's being stifled, lost such an opportunity, treat so horribly, and lost money.

He also said no one should feel sorry for him. I don't remember him saying he lost money. He disputed that NBC was losing money on his show.

No matter how much NBC paid him to go away, I think it's perfectly reasonable for him to feel that he wasn't treated well after he presumably passed on other opportunities in order to stay at NBC, with the promise that they would give him "The Tonight Show" years down the road. I can understand him feeling that he deserved more of a chance than he got. If you assume that he enjoys what he does for a living, then I can understand why that would hurt, regardless of the money.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I don't really have a comment about the late night show fiasco, just don't know enough of the facts.

[...]

I just can't watch Conan. I get about 2-3 minutes into his show and feel uncomfortable and change the channel. The guy just creeps me out. Not funny to me. I am not a big fan of his humor.

Here are some facts:
Some people like Conan.
Some people don't like Conan.
Some people like Leno.
Some people don't like Leno.
Leno had a small audience when he took over from Caron. Leno was given lots of time and it took 18 months for his audience to grow.
Conan was not given lots of time to grow an audience.
Leno's prime time show tanked.

Based on this, I conclude that NBC execs figured they could get Leno's audience back in the 11:30 time slot more quickly than Conan could build one on his own.

That's it. The rest is theatrics and media spin.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Anyone see the 60 Minutes interview with Coocoo? He whines and complains about how he's being stifled, lost such an opportunity, treat so horribly, and lost money. The segment prior to Conan's was perfectly placed. A story about illegal immigrants dying while trying to enter into America because living conditions are so poor in Mexico.

Use some context. In Conan's last show on NBC he acknowledged that he was lucky to have that job in context of what most people do for a living. So he's not allowed to complain just because there are people in the world worse off than he is?

Shall we bring up illegal immigrants dying every time someone complains here about a bad day at work, or Apple didn't include USB3 in their laptops, or their hard disk crashed, etc.?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by hayesk 

Use some context. In Conan's last show on NBC he acknowledged that he was lucky to have that job in context of what most people do for a living. So he's not allowed to complain just because there are people in the world worse off than he is?

Shall we bring up illegal immigrants dying every time someone complains here about a bad day at work, or Apple didn't include USB3 in their laptops, or their hard disk crashed, etc.?

Completely in context. One segment of a story about immigrants dying needlessly, leaving family members to mourn. Next immediate segment, Conan whining about how he was treated. It is hard to feel sorry for him. Only a true coocoo-fanboi would spin it otherwise.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

Completely in context. One segment of a story about immigrants dying needlessly, leaving family members to mourn. Next immediate segment, Conan whining about how he was treated. It is hard to feel sorry for him. Only a true coocoo-fanboi would spin it otherwise.

Do you think Conan was told or shown the story on illegal immigrants when he was interviewed? Seriously, he was interviewed and he was answering based on his experience alone. He wasn't asked to compare his situation with that of dying immigrants.

The fact that you couldn't isolate the two stories proves my point. The positioning of the two stories completely defeated your ability to view the Conan story in proper context. As I said earlier, should we compare every complaint on this forum to dying immigrants?No? Then why compare Conan's interview?

[Railroader]

Sheesh.

Poor Conan. He has been treated so poorly.
























He's still creeps me out.

[The Final Dakar]

Practically anything you compare to illegal immigrants is going to pale in comparison. Terrible logic there.

The only way you think Conan didn't get treated poorly is if you measure life by money. By all other accounts, the guy got treated in a way none of us would want. Just apply his situation to a normal job and tell me that person didn't get screwed.

[Railroader]

I wasn't the one using the logic, 60 minutes was. Though, I think it was brilliant on their part.

I think he was given something he really shouldn't have, The 11:35 slot on NBC. He was not as successful as he could have been or someone else might have been. Obviously television is a business ALL about making money. He simply didn't provide his employers with what they wanted. When you get involved in that lifestyle, you accept that you are going to get yanked around by network executives. It is part of the game. To whine about it is immature. He was not treated poorly, money excluded. I would have been thankful for the opportunity and moved on.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I wasn't the one using the logic, 60 minutes was. Though, I think it was brilliant on their part.

That's your assumption and you're still connecting two unrelated things. The two have nothing to do with each other.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

I think he was given something he really shouldn't have, The 11:35 slot on NBC. He was not as successful as he could have been or someone else might have been. Obviously television is a business ALL about making money. He simply didn't provide his employers with what they wanted.

Check your late night history. There is no instant late-night sensation.

Originally Posted by Railroader 

When you get involved in that lifestyle, you accept that you are going to get yanked around by network executives. It is part of the game. To whine about it is immature.

*facepalm* So he didn't get screwed because the industry in known for screwing people. Got it.

[hyteckit]

Conan's final message on the Tonight Show was don't be Cynical, it's the worst trait to have.


Is Conan being cynical, jaded, or just resentmentful?

[Shaddim]

As RR mentioned earlier, Ferguson is the only late-night host I can tolerate watching. He's actually funny, most of the time.

Edit: I take that back, I can stomach Letterman in small doses, but can't remember the last time I watched an entire show.

[The Final Dakar]

Leno ratings: 'Tonight's' worst summer ever

"The Tonight Show With Jay Leno" is pulling a smaller number in the advertiser-coveted adults 18-49 demographic than when Conan O'Brien hosted the show last year.

In fact, this summer is the lowest-rated "Tonight" on record, though such feats have become increasingly common on broadcast across the board.

Since the end of the broadcast season, Leno is averaging 3.8 million viewers and a 1.0 adults 18-49 rating. That's a 12% improvement in total audience compared with O'Brien, though off 23% in the demo and down in both measurements compared with Leno's performance two years ago. His percentages greatly improve if comparisons begin a few weeks deeper into the summer so "Tonight" is not facing O'Brien's opening weeks hosting the show, though O'Brien is tops in the demo either way.

[Brien]

By the way, did anyone catch when they showed the nominees for variety and it got to his? At the end it cut to static and showed a building imploding. I laughed for a good 2 minutes. I'd have loved for him to win, if only to hear what he had to say.

[The Final Dakar]

I didn't see that but I saw a different one (Golden globes?) where they went through everyone's names, displaying a them in the context of a jpb application (burger kind, home depot) before finally settling on Conan's for TBS.

[The Final Dakar]

The Unsocial Network | Culture | Vanity Fair

[Brien]

I'm still looking forward to Late Shift II starring Tilda Swinton.

[The Final Dakar]

Yes.

[Railroader]

Jay Leno’s Sinking Tonight Show Ratings: Will Conan O'Brien Get the Last Laugh? - The Daily Beast

[The Final Dakar]

Seems like the most appropriate place to post this:

Jon Stewart beats rivals to late-night talkshow crown | Media | guardian.co.uk

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, which airs on cable channel Comedy Central, attracted the highest average adult audience of any late night talkshow in October, according to the Hollywood Reporter. The Reporter states that it has been "at least a decade" since a talkshow other than David Letterman's Late Show on CBS or Jay Leno-fronted The Tonight Show on NBC topped the ratings.

Late Night Talk Shows – average audiences, October 2010

1. The Daily Show with Jon Stewart (Comedy Central) - 1.3 million viewers
2. The Tonight Show with Jay Leno (NBC) - 1.2
3. Late Show with David Letterman (NBC) - 1.2
4. The Colbert Report (Comedy Central) - 900,000
5. Late Night with Jimmy Fallon (NBC) - 800,000
6. The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson (CBS) - 700,000
7. Jimmy Kimmel Live (ABC) - 700,000
8. Chelsea Lately (E!) - 650,000
9. Lopez Tonight (TBS) - 450,000

I'd make fun of Lopez tonight, but I think it may have been on hiatus for October. Still, I imagine TBS will be happy with anything north of 750,000 from Conan.

[besson3c]

Do you happen to know how internet viewing is measured, Dakar? That has to make the ratings system complicated, especially since you can watch segments of shows that way, and shows like the Daily Show get traffic through political sites such as the HuffPo.

[ort888]

It seems silly for Conan to go up against Stewart/Colbert.

I like Conan, but have never really watched his show for more than a few minutes here and there. I really haven't been paying that much attention to this whole debacle. Is he going to just come back with a traditional late night talk show or is he trying something new?

[The Final Dakar]

Define "something new".

And yeah, him at 11 seems like it'll be splitting the demographic. I don't think it matters how good he does, unless he gets network tv rating on cable he's going to come out looking like a loser in two months.

[ort888]

10 minutes of standup
commercial
celebrity guest plugging something
commercial
comedy observations on some clips or flash cards
commercial
less interesting guest
commercial
some crappy guest
end

NOT THAT

[The Final Dakar]

It'll probably be that. Which is a shame, as his greatest weaknesses are the talk-show format.

[besson3c]

I would take 4 half hour shows a week of his sketches to 5 hours a week of the formula ort posted...

[ort888]

He should have created something cool, like a weekly hour long comedy variety show.

One week could be a 45 minute featurette... the next week would be some standup from him and some friends, the next week could be sketches... the next week traditional guest interviews... who knows what you get.

[The Final Dakar]

He just needs to do more scripted stuff.

Honestly, I feel like I could forget to watch this tonight. In the future, I could see myself tuning in when the Daily Show is about to bring on its guest.

[ort888]

I'll give it a shot. The problem is that my TiVo has two tuners and I "tape" the DailyShow/Colbert every night, and the other tuner is frequently "taping" something else like hockey or who knows what. I don't think Conan would get recorded more than once or twice a week unless I change my priorities which I don't want to do.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Seems like the most appropriate place to post this:

Jon Stewart beats rivals to late-night talkshow crown | Media | guardian.co.uk


Late Night Talk Shows – average audiences, October 2010

1. The Daily Show with Jon Stewart (Comedy Central) - 1.3 million viewers
2. The Tonight Show with Jay Leno (NBC) - 1.2
3. Late Show with David Letterman (NBC) - 1.2
4. The Colbert Report (Comedy Central) - 900,000
5. Late Night with Jimmy Fallon (NBC) - 800,000
6. The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson (CBS) - 700,000
7. Jimmy Kimmel Live (ABC) - 700,000
8. Chelsea Lately (E!) - 650,000
9. Lopez Tonight (TBS) - 450,000

I'd make fun of Lopez tonight, but I think it may have been on hiatus for October. Still, I imagine TBS will be happy with anything north of 750,000 from Conan.

Wow. I'm shocked Lopez is so low. I thought his show was supposed to be pretty good? I haven't watched more than 10-15 minutes of it at a time, but it seemed better than 450,000 would indicate.

Glad to see Fallon doing well - I like him.

[The Final Dakar]

Like I said, I think he was in hiatus.

Edit: Speaking of which the Daily Show was off for a week in October, too.

[ort888]

I also think Conan needs to do more jokes about eggs.