[SSharon]

I'm in the middle of renovating my apartment and I'm in the market to buy a small safe. The area is relatively safe and so the safe isn't so much to prevent theft as it would be to protect documents and files from water/fire damage. I can bolt it to the floor, but that isn't really necessary.

I'm sure many of you have home safes and so I'm curious to know what brands I should avoid. Any regrets? Should I decide between combination/key/digital keypad only based on personal preference or has anyone had any problems with one type or another.

[ghporter]

You want fire protection in a size that fits what you need to protect. The small cubic fire safes I've seen have been generally good deals-but pay attention to their fire rating.

I know a couple who have a refrigerator-sized fire safe with a small, document sized fire safe inside it. They get two layers of fire protection for their documents this way. Kind of extreme for passports and birth certificates, but maybe not for heirloom jewelry.

[Phileas]

If your main concern isn't security then a fireproof cabinet might do the job.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I know a couple who have a refrigerator-sized fire safe with a small, document sized fire safe inside it.

I wonder what they keep in there... that is some serious protection. Do you know what brand the inner safe is? I have a feeling they did their research before buying either safe.

[ghporter]

The inner one is a Sentry brand. The big one is from Cannon. The Cannon is rated at 45 minutes at 1200ºF, and the Sentry is rated to something like 1500ºF for 30 minutes.

I learned a lot about fire protection from these people. Typical fire safes get their protection from gypsum board, not fire brick, which explains the time component-that's how long it takes the fire at the rated temperature to cook off enough water to crumble the gypsum.

[turtle777]

I got a Sentry S3310.

UL classified 1 hours, key and combination lock combo.

It's good enough, since all my precious metals are in addition insured.
Got no really valuable documents or collectible items in there.

-t

[SSharon]

Thanks for the info Glenn and turtle.
I'm still surprised that there are significant negative reviews for all of the models I have looked at.

Are you happy with the sentry safe turtle? Does the handle and locking mechanism feel cheap or like it will wear out? Also, are you required to use both the combination and the key or is one or the other enough?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

Thanks for the info Glenn and turtle.
I'm still surprised that there are significant negative reviews for all of the models I have looked at.

Are you happy with the sentry safe turtle? Does the handle and locking mechanism feel cheap or like it will wear out? Also, are you required to use both the combination and the key or is one or the other enough?

You need to use both the key and the combination.

To be honest, the dial feels kind of cheap, it's plastic. As long as you don't abuse it, it should last. It doesn't feel like it would wear out quickly.

But if you (God forbid) have a fire, you will not be able to open the safe w/o brute force.

-t

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

But if you (God forbid) have a fire, you will not be able to open the safe w/o brute force.

A lot of good fire safes are "sealed up tight" in an actual fire. It's how the gasket around the door/lid works. High temperatures melt a component inside the gasket and it flows to seal the seam very tightly-effectively gluing the lid/door in place, but also blocking high temperature gasses. A great thing to have, actually.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

A lot of good fire safes are "sealed up tight" in an actual fire. It's how the gasket around the door/lid works. High temperatures melt a component inside the gasket and it flows to seal the seam very tightly-effectively gluing the lid/door in place, but also blocking high temperature gasses. A great thing to have, actually.

I was wondering about how you would open a safe after a fire if the keypad and dial are melted. Thankfully I don't know anyone that has had to pay to have a safe cracked open, but perhaps homeowner's insurance would cover it?

If it costs me $2000 to have a safe opened (making up a number) then I might question getting one to begin with. It would be cheaper to buy a dozen external hard drives and mail them away for data backups then keep a hard drive in the safe and have to pay to recover it.

[ghporter]

I had a GI safe opened by a locksmith once; it had been put in storage and had not had one of the standard combinations set. It was a safe rated for classified information, and there was no other way to find out if there was classified info in it but to have it opened. This was a 2-drawer file safe, but the process is pretty much the same for any really secure safe.

It took the locksmith about 90 minutes to get into the thing, mostly with cutting through the outer panel to get at the lock. The cost was less than $100. That, of course, doesn't include the cost to pry the door open on a fire safe that's been "sealed" by its gasket. Add $20 at most for that-once the lock is disabled, it is simply a matter of prying the door open against a sticky resistance.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I had a GI safe opened by a locksmith once; it had been put in storage and had not had one of the standard combinations set. It was a safe rated for classified information, and there was no other way to find out if there was classified info in it but to have it opened. This was a 2-drawer file safe, but the process is pretty much the same for any really secure safe.

It took the locksmith about 90 minutes to get into the thing, mostly with cutting through the outer panel to get at the lock. The cost was less than $100. That, of course, doesn't include the cost to pry the door open on a fire safe that's been "sealed" by its gasket. Add $20 at most for that-once the lock is disabled, it is simply a matter of prying the door open against a sticky resistance.

So did it have classified materials inside?
It is a relief to know it isn't prohibitively expensive to get a safe cracked open. If there is a fire, an extra hundred bucks will be the last thing on my mind.

[turtle777]

I agree. Theft is not my primary reason for the safe.

The safe should be a [small] hassle; as with computer security: once there is physical access, all bets are off.

-t

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

So did it have classified materials inside?
It is a relief to know it isn't prohibitively expensive to get a safe cracked open. If there is a fire, an extra hundred bucks will be the last thing on my mind.

No, it had a few odds and ends of absolutely no value; I had to have the job done because nobody knew what was in it-and if my commander could have found out who was responsible for putting the safe away without changing its combination, that individual would probably have been docked the cost of the locksmith's time. Which was extensive, by the way; it took about 2 hours with specialized cutting tools (very expensive ones) and intimate knowledge of the innards of the locking system.

"Joe IGotTools" may be able to get into such a safe too, but it would take him considerably longer, and there's no guarantee that he could really do it. The kind of safe I had the locksmith open is rated for up to Secret information based on how long a trained professional would take to get into it.

Home safes like gun safes, document safes and the like are also rated that way, but it's harder to find those ratings. You have to basically learn what sort of locking system they use; how many bolts are used, where they are and whether they're "live," "dead" or something else; and the quality and thickness of both the case and doors. With this information you can compare brands and make an educated decision. I was at a mall with a jewelry kiosk last weekend. The jeweler had an impressive looking, stand-up safe in the middle of their setup-with a "Stack-On" brand label on the front. I'd buy a tool box from them, but I'd be leery of buying a substantial safe from them.

[downinflames68]

Also, where do you hide your safes, and what are your combinations?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

Also, where do you hide your safes, and what are your combinations?

Underneath my aquarium, the combination is the birthday of my turtle.

-t

[Snow-i]

No better safe then 4 paws and a tail.

He keeps the only true valuables (us) safe from harm. Everything else is fine enough in a simple locked firebox.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

No better safe then 4 paws and a tail.

He keeps the only true valuables (us) safe from harm. Everything else is fine enough in a simple locked firebox.

My wife will never let me get a dog so that part is out of the question. Which brand firebox do you use?

[Snow-i]

No idea...its from the seventies and I haven't pulled it out since I got my last car.