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Cadaver · Feb 2, 2008, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by damiensmunki

I reached the same conclusion yesterday, though I haven't actually seen the Air in person. I just decided I wasn't willing to be part of Apple's test market this time around. I really hope the Air does well, though, as I'd like to see consistent upgrades/updates. I can definitely see myself buying one in a couple years. Now, though, I'm loving my black MacBook, and I can tell that I'll be glad I can have more than 2GB of RAM.

Maybe its just because they've been out for a while that their impression has warn off, but the black MacBooks IMHO are just as "sexy" as the MacBook Air.

damiensmunki · Feb 2, 2008, 03:58 PM

After merely two days of use, I'm in love with my black MacBook. Yesterday, I did run into a huge wall trying to run Parallels with XP and multiple other OSX apps with just 1GB of RAM, and it really made me realize that probably not even 2GB would suffice for the way I use a computer. I was so dragged down by the 1GB, I ordered 4GB from OWC and had them over-night it with Saturday delivery. Now I'm cruising in comfortable style! I really can't wait to watch the evolution of the Air, though. Exciting times!

Cadaver · Feb 2, 2008, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by damiensmunki

After merely two days of use, I'm in love with my black MacBook. Yesterday, I did run into a huge wall trying to run Parallels with XP and multiple other OSX apps with just 1GB of RAM, and it really made me realize that probably not even 2GB would suffice for the way I use a computer. I was so dragged down by the 1GB, I ordered 4GB from OWC and had them over-night it with Saturday delivery. Now I'm cruising in comfortable style! I really can't wait to watch the evolution of the Air, though. Exciting times!

Yep. I've gone to 4GB as well. That's a big reason why I didn't purchase a MacBook Air instead. I'm also very happy with my black MacBook. Personally I think its every bit as nice/professional looking as the aluminum Mac laptops. And since I don't require a high-power 3D graphics chip to word process and run Keynote presentations, its every bit as good (for me) as the mythical 13" MacBook Pro.

AC Rempt · Feb 3, 2008, 02:27 AM

I also love my BMB, though it can only hold 2 Gigs and looks a bit worn (I guess I'm greasier than I thought). I saw the MBA at the Apple Store near me tonight, and it is an amazing piece of engineering, but it's not for me. It felt so small in my hands, and I didn't feel comfortable typing on it. I have good sized hands, so I'm not the best gauge, and yes, I know it's the same size keyboard as the BMB and the new aluminum desktop keyboards, but at first blush, it just didn't feel right.

Still, a lovely machine, and if I had $2000 to kick around, I might be swayed, but since I don't, it's just not for me.

crazeazn · Feb 3, 2008, 03:09 AM

still waiting for a review!

jjahshik32 · Feb 4, 2008, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by damiensmunki

After merely two days of use, I'm in love with my black MacBook. Yesterday, I did run into a huge wall trying to run Parallels with XP and multiple other OSX apps with just 1GB of RAM, and it really made me realize that probably not even 2GB would suffice for the way I use a computer. I was so dragged down by the 1GB, I ordered 4GB from OWC and had them over-night it with Saturday delivery. Now I'm cruising in comfortable style! I really can't wait to watch the evolution of the Air, though. Exciting times!

I agree with you, the macbook air is very sleek and sexy but once that is set aside that soldered 2gb of ram and $999 ssd drive is just not good.

DCJ001 · Feb 4, 2008, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by frdmfghtr

How am I supposed to use zip disks with that thing?

Originally Posted by moki

No ExpressCard slot! It doesn't have enough ports... waaaaaah

You two haven't seen the ports on the other side yet!

ctt1wbw · Feb 4, 2008, 05:06 AM

Why, is there a VHS slot too?

fhoubi · Feb 4, 2008, 06:45 AM

Macbook AirCarrier would have been a better name...

Cadaver · Feb 4, 2008, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by jjahshik32

I agree with you, the macbook air is very sleek and sexy but once that is set aside that soldered 2gb of ram and $999 ssd drive is just not good.

$999 is actually about right. But I'd agree with you about the 2GB RAM maximum. So while its a good machine for many, its just not for me (which is OK; not every machine is designed for everyone).

mfbernstein · Feb 4, 2008, 11:41 AM

Ars Technica has a review now. 2.5 hours of battery life? Ouch! At least the 4200RPM HD doesn't seem to be too painful though.

Eug · Feb 4, 2008, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by mfbernstein

Ars Technica has a review now. 2.5 hours of battery life? Ouch!

Ouch is right. That's worse than my 1 year old MacBook battery with WiFi on.

At least the 4200RPM HD doesn't seem to be too painful though.

Yes it does.

These were some pretty disk-intensive tests, and it showed. The Air fared poorly in all three tests compared to the MacBook and MacBook Pro, but it did the worst during a WebKit build that took over 45 minutes. That was pretty harsh.

As for everyday type usage:

Put simply, the Air slows to a halfway-unusable crawl anytime there's a large amount of disk activity—running a browser that reads and writes a lot to the drive (*cough* Firefox), transferring files over the network in the background, anything. The cruel and unusual 4200rpm drive began burning me on my first evening using the Air, and has continued to burn me every evening since.

This is not an issue when there's only moderate disk activity, which apparently encompasses the large majority of my day. But if you have a few disk-intensive things going on—for example, one night I was downloading a 2GB disk image from another computer on the network onto my Air's hard drive—you may as well not even try to use the machine unless you enjoy pulling your hair out. I was trying to watch some streaming video at the time and IM a bit with friends. The video became jerky and intolerable.

The lack of a USB 2-supported Migration Assistant is pretty disappointing too, given that they dropped Firewire.

Gee4orce · Feb 4, 2008, 12:52 PM

Methink the typical Ars Technica reader is not the target demographic for this product.

Really, if you want to be building WebKit from source code, you're probably going to want a Macbook Pro

Eug · Feb 4, 2008, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

Really, if you want to be building WebKit from source code, you're probably going to want a Macbook Pro

Why?

I'm not saying that the MacBook Air is aimed at coding geeks, but I don't see how such stuff requires a MBP.

BTW, my guess is that more Ars readers own MacBooks than MacBook Pros, although I have no data to back that up.

mfbernstein · Feb 4, 2008, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Gee4orce

Really, if you want to be building WebKit from source code, you're probably going to want a Macbook Pro

Uhh... The SSD model MBA should be very nearly as fast as the MBP for that. Compiling is mostly CPU intensive, with a bit of HD seeking thrown in for good measure. What's the problem?

iREZ · Feb 4, 2008, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by DCJ001

You two haven't seen the ports on the other side yet!

stop stealing jokes!

icruise · Feb 4, 2008, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by mfbernstein

Ars Technica has a review now. 2.5 hours of battery life? Ouch!

And I think that's what's going to make me pass on this. I've been waiting for years for a computer like this from Apple, and I'm hoping to get a new laptop in a few months, but I just can't deal with the non-replaceable battery.

iREZ · Feb 4, 2008, 04:56 PM

I've seen a battery replacement done on a macbook air and it looks painstakingly easy, a few screws and switch...granted this would void your warrantee i bet.

icruise · Feb 4, 2008, 05:48 PM

I'm talking about replacing a battery on the go, not when it's losing its charge.

moki · Feb 4, 2008, 09:54 PM

I took delivery of the MacBook Air today. Very nice machine; it's the SSD model, and there's something really peaceful about using it... no fans, no hard drive whine. It's an intangible and probably not very important attribute of the machine, but it is very nice.

I've also never seen this before on my other Apple laptops:

I'm sure it won't quite get that much time in real world usage, but I bet for writing and other light-duty tasks, it very nearly will. This is with the airport connection active. Cool stuff. I'll write up more later.

c.f.: MacBook Air -- why I have ordered one

icruise · Feb 4, 2008, 11:15 PM

Are you saying you're actually getting that much battery life? Because I've had my battery counter display wildly inaccurate estimates before.

jjahshik32 · Feb 4, 2008, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

Are you saying you're actually getting that much battery life? Because I've had my battery counter display wildly inaccurate estimates before.

That happens alot with me on my 15" mbp, one time I had 16:39 hrs and the occasional 7:42 hr.

moki · Feb 5, 2008, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by icruise

Are you saying you're actually getting that much battery life? Because I've had my battery counter display wildly inaccurate estimates before.

Well, that's what it was displaying, and it wasn't a calculation inaccuracy. No idea what it'll mean in terms of real-world battery life, though I can say that it appears to be superior to my MacBook Pro.

damiensmunki · Feb 5, 2008, 12:41 AM

What everyone is getting at is that those time estimates are wildly inaccurate. I'd wager my house that you'll never see 5:50 of uninterrupted battery-life.

AC Rempt · Feb 5, 2008, 12:49 AM

What kind of power draw d you see on an SSD drive? Could that make such a huge difference?

moki · Feb 5, 2008, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by damiensmunki

What everyone is getting at is that those time estimates are wildly inaccurate. I'd wager my house that you'll never see 5:50 of uninterrupted battery-life.

Unless you were typing into a word processing document with the highest power saving features on, and all network connections off... I'd agree with you.

I don't expect to see 5:50 of uninterrupted battery life either.

bajajoe · Feb 5, 2008, 01:32 AM

lets all stop bitching and use it if you have it and let us know what you think I like mine its quiet clean light and wonderful to use.

higuy83 · Feb 5, 2008, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by bajajoe

lets all stop bitching and use it if you have it and let us know what you think I like mine its quiet clean light and wonderful to use.

I couldn't agree more.

jjahshik32 · Feb 5, 2008, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by moki

Well, that's what it was displaying, and it wasn't a calculation inaccuracy. No idea what it'll mean in terms of real-world battery life, though I can say that it appears to be superior to my MacBook Pro.

Reading many reviews the real world battery life is somewhere in the 3-3.5 hours on the new mba with ssd model, on par with the current macbooks. Not too bad, but I was expecting the 5 hour that apple posted. I thought even apple would give the real world but no just like every other vendors they use the maximum hour with everything almost turned off with the mba doing nothing.

I had a sony vaio tz model with ssd and it gave me 5.5-6.5 hours with moderate usage with the brightness almost on full.

I am really trying to like the mba and I even went to my local apple store today to check it out. I do love the trackpad, works even better and more responsive than my 2.4ghz mbp and the ssd drive was very fast at loading most of the programs almost instantaneous (actually a bit faster than the 32gb sandisk ssd on my sony vaio tz) and the screen is even brighter than the 2.4ghz mbp led model. But price is a concern and the only way I can probably afford the top model is to sell my 2.4ghz mbp but its very hard to justify this decision when the battery life is just mediocre at best.

moki · Feb 5, 2008, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by jjahshik32

Reading many reviews the real world battery life is somewhere in the 3-3.5 hours on the new mba with ssd model, on par with the current macbooks. Not too bad, but I was expecting the 5 hour that apple posted. I thought even apple would give the real world but no just like every other vendors they use the maximum hour with everything almost turned off with the mba doing nothing.

I have a MacBook Air as well as a MacBook Pro with a new battery. I can tell you that just based on my informal usage patterns, the MBA gets longer usage out of a full charge than does the MBP.

I haven't timed anything, but I have been doing light-duty work, web surfing, etc. for the last 2+ hours, and the battery meter is reading 2:15 left. That same type of usage with the MBP, I wouldn't get that kind of battery life.

moki · Feb 5, 2008, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by bajajoe

lets all stop bitching and use it if you have it and let us know what you think I like mine its quiet clean light and wonderful to use.

Sure. Some random, rambling impressions:

The MacBook Air is what I expected it to be. A nice thin, light "satellite" computer that is a good compliment to my desk machine.

The form factor is, of course, quite nice. The keyboard is excellent (I actually prefer this keyboard to the MBP keyboard), and while the screen is very good and quite bright, the viewing angle isn't as good as the MBP screen.

The MBA doesn't get nearly as warm as my MBP when using it or when charging it... and the SSD model is eerily quiet, as noted before. I only had the fan kick in when I rested it on a pillow for an extended period of time, allowing the heat to build up because of the insulation and blocking of the heat vents.

The window server process works a bit more than it would on a machine with a dedicated video card, but performance has been a non-issue thus far. It's performed well.

I am slightly annoyed that my existing MBP chargers can't be used with it if it is sitting on a flat surface. They stick out too much.

I realize that it's only a few pounds lighter than the MacBook or MacBook Pro, but somehow it feels significantly lighter than they are. Side by side, it makes the MacBook and MacBook Pro look bulky and somewhat... dated, despite being less feature-full.

I'm taking the MBA on a trip this week, and we'll see how that fares... it'll be nice to shed a few pounds in my traveling backpack. I've not used the Remote Disk feature, and probably won't bother with it.

I do have the external SuperDrive for it, but I haven't used it. Most of my software I've just installed by copying it over and configuring it.

That's about it really... it's well done for what it is. What is is may not be for you, but as a lightweight wireless access portal, it works quite well.

Now, about that lack of EVDO... if Amazon can do it, so can Apple. That's my one major disappointment with it.

analogika · Feb 5, 2008, 08:50 PM

The Kindle isn't available outside the U.S.

moki · Feb 6, 2008, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

The Kindle isn't available outside the U.S.

There's no reason EVDO/GSM/whatever can't be a BTO option.

analogika · Feb 6, 2008, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by moki

There's no reason EVDO/GSM/whatever can't be a BTO option.

IANAE, but I'm pretty sure there's at least a dozen good reasons why it can't, and probably more than half of them relate to design and engineering, with the rest affecting logistics and marketing.

Not that I wouldn't appreciate the option in my next laptop - it would make the iPhone a real option (which it currently isn't due to lack of Bluetooth modem functionality).

mfbernstein · Feb 6, 2008, 09:33 AM

Ars tested the SSD model. Performance (subjective) is a lot better. Battery life? Still 2.5 hours. Guess all MBA users are expected to travel first class or on short flights!

Also note: 3G isn't possible as a BTO option because there's no available mini-PCI-E slot on the logic board, among other things.

Eug · Feb 6, 2008, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by mfbernstein

Ars tested the SSD model. Performance (subjective) is a lot better.

Yeah, as it should be. However, I was a little surprised that it still behaved significantly worse than the MacBook. It seems to be because sequential write times are considerably slower on the SSD. Sequential write times usually aren't a big deal, but with the SSD it can become a limiting factor apparently.

Battery life? Still 2.5 hours.

In truth, it's closer to 3 according to that review, at least one of the times they tested it (2h52), but that still sucks for a brand new battery in a laptop aimed at road warriors.

mfbernstein · Feb 6, 2008, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

Yeah, as it should be. However, I was a little surprised that it still behaved significantly worse than the MacBook. It seems to be because sequential write times are considerably slower on the SSD. Sequential write times usually aren't a big deal, but with the SSD it can become a limiting factor apparently.

I'd like to know what model SSD they're using. Samsung's newest is supposedly pretty close (within 15%) to a 5400RPM 2.5" SATA for sequential operations, so it shouldn't, in theory, be much worse than the MacBook. On the bright side, it won't slow down much as the disk fills up.

WorkClothes · Feb 6, 2008, 01:05 PM

Here is a review of the MacBook Air with benchmarks for both SSD and HHD versions running under both OS X and Vista:

MacBook Air - Notebook Reviews by Mobile Tech Review

ort888 · Feb 6, 2008, 03:00 PM

I saw the Air today in person and was somewhat underwhelmed. It wasn't as small in person as I thought it would be. And while it's thin, I was expecting it to be thinner. It was sitting next to a MacBook and it really didn't look that much smaller. Not enough to justify the cost and loss of features.

It is a very beautiful machine though. Easily the best looking Mac Notebook on the market.

amazing · Feb 6, 2008, 03:06 PM

New question for those with MBA in-hand: How fast does it charge? The reviews are saying that it charges pretty slowly, and what with not being able to switch batteries, that's definite downer.

'Course, if you just elevate it a little bit, you can use a full-size charger, which should be much faster. So you just take 2 art-gum erasers on the road with you and use your full-size charger.

moki · Feb 7, 2008, 03:42 AM

Originally Posted by Eug

In truth, it's closer to 3 according to that review, at least one of the times they tested it (2h52), but that still sucks for a brand new battery in a laptop aimed at road warriors.

The Truth about MacBook Air Battery Life -- a nice test from AnandTech. It jives with my experience using it... the battery life seems better than my MacBook Pro doing similar tasks.

It'll be interesting to see them run the same tests on the SSD model, so see if there is any difference in battery life. I suspect there won't be that much of a difference, but it may be measurable.

moki · Feb 7, 2008, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by analogika

IANAE, but I'm pretty sure there's at least a dozen good reasons why it can't, and probably more than half of them relate to design and engineering, with the rest affecting logistics and marketing.

Sure. But other laptops manage to have EVDO/GSM, etc. as BTO options. I'm sure there are design/logistical, and marketing issues involved. I don't care, that's Apple's problem to solve, I just know that I'd like to have it built in.

Sony VAIO VGN-TXN10 brings the EV-DO Rev A - Engadget

Sony VAIO TZ100 with Sprint EVDO

Dell.com Verizon Wireless 5720 Built-in Mobile Broadband (EV-DO Rev A) for Dell Latitude D630c/ D631 Laptop/ XT Tablet PC Ratings & Reviews

Dell : DELL Sprint Built-in Mobile Broadband (EV-DO Rev A) for Dell Inspiron 1525/ 1526 Notebooks : Networking & Communication : Home & Home Office

If Sony and Dell can do it, Apple can do it. I suspect space was the limitation... but I still want it in an ultra-portable road warrior laptop. I would like it far more than the things most people are complaining about the MBA not having.

edoras · Feb 7, 2008, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by fhoubi

Macbook AirCarrier would have been a better name...

Macbook Airport - since it has so many ports....

mfbernstein · Feb 7, 2008, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by moki

The Truth about MacBook Air Battery Life -- a nice test from AnandTech. It jives with my experience using it... the battery life seems better than my MacBook Pro doing similar tasks.

It'll be interesting to see them run the same tests on the SSD model, so see if there is any difference in battery life. I suspect there won't be that much of a difference, but it may be measurable.

Given the other reports, either some machines have defective batteries, or there's a substantial difference in testing condition between Anandtech and the others who tested.

Anandtech also tested the network performance of the MBA.

Eug · Feb 7, 2008, 09:36 AM

That's much more reasonable. 4 hours with internet access and MP3 is longer than I can get with my MacBook. However, my MacBook battery is a year old now. IIRC, the 4 hours is similar to what I could get when it was new... but the MacBook is rated for 6 hours, not 5.

amazing · Feb 7, 2008, 10:44 AM

It's interesting to see that USB 2.0 10/100/1000 ethernet dongles are available (see the links in the comments to Anandtech network article,) for only a few bucks more than Apple's. Anybody interested in testing one of those?

Also, how good is the range and thru-put on the wireless card? Did Apple put in adequate wireless antenna "windows" thru the metal cage?

Simon · Feb 7, 2008, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

Did Apple put in adequate wireless antenna "windows" thru the metal cage?

They're doing it just like on the MBP. The hinge has a rubber window. That's where the antenna is located.

Love Calm Quiet · Feb 7, 2008, 04:35 PM

FWIW...

Despite all the limitations that MBA has vis-a-vis MB or MBP... people *are* voting with their dollars:

Maybe it's been mentioned before, but I notice that today Apple's store lists the MBA as 1st in bestsellers - above the MB & MBP.

I'm guessing that this means it's being purchased *not* only by folks who are getting it as a second Mac, but... ¿maybe by first-time Mac'ers?

It'll be interesting to see if/when Apple reports something about demographics of MBA buyers.

amazing · Feb 7, 2008, 05:27 PM

There's been pent-up demand for an Apple subnotebook for many years. Also, people may be holding off on the MBP (or MB) because of possibility of new models. So, saying that the AirBook is #1 may only be mildly significant.

Can anyone with the MBA comment on wireless range and throughput? Is it as good as the MBP?

mduell · Feb 7, 2008, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

It's interesting to see that USB 2.0 10/100/1000 ethernet dongles are available (see the links in the comments to Anandtech network article,) for only a few bucks more than Apple's. Anybody interested in testing one of those?

Note it's 10/100, not GigE. USB2 is capable of about 200Mbps in the real world, but I bet the GigE chipset would be more expensive/larger/blah/blah.