[f1000]

Raiding the Icebox

Behind Its Warm Front, the United States Made Cold Calculations to Subdue Canada

By Peter Carlson
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, December 30, 2005; Page C01

Invading Canada won't be like invading Iraq: When we invade Canada, nobody will be able to grumble that we didn't have a plan.

The United States government does have a plan to invade Canada. It's a 94-page document called "Joint Army and Navy Basic War Plan -- Red," with the word SECRET stamped on the cover. It's a bold plan, a bodacious plan, a step-by-step plan to invade, seize and annex our neighbor to the north. It goes like this:

First, we send a joint Army-Navy overseas force to capture the port city of Halifax, cutting the Canadians off from their British allies.

Then we seize Canadian power plants near Niagara Falls, so they freeze in the dark.

Then the U.S. Army invades on three fronts -- marching from Vermont to take Montreal and Quebec, charging out of North Dakota to grab the railroad center at Winnipeg, and storming out of the Midwest to capture the strategic nickel mines of Ontario.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Navy seizes the Great Lakes and blockades Canada's Atlantic and Pacific ports.

At that point, it's only a matter of time before we bring these Molson-swigging, maple-mongering Zamboni drivers to their knees! Or, as the official planners wrote, stating their objective in bold capital letters: "ULTIMATELY TO GAIN COMPLETE CONTROL."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122901412.html

[Dork.]

Why would we want Canada? All we would get are a bunch of bad hockey teams, a province full of people who think they're French, and some beer.

Although I wonder if we can trade Buffalo for Vancouver?

edit: Had to chuckle at this:

Out in Winnipeg -- the Manitoba capital, whose rail yards were slated to be seized in the plan -- Brad Salyn, the city's director of communications, said he didn't think Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz knew anything about War Plan Red: "You know he would have no clue about what you're talking about, eh?

"I'm sure Winnipeggers will stand up tall in defense of our country," Mayor Katz said later. "We have many, many weapons."

What kind of weapons?

"We have peashooters, slingshots and snowballs," he said, laughing.

But the Canadians' best weapon, Katz added, is their weather. "It gets to about minus-50 Celsius with a wind chill," he said. "It will be like Napoleon's invasion of Russia. I'm quite convinced that you'll meet your Waterloo on the banks of the Assiniboine River."

[NYCFarmboy]

not really necessary to invade, we can have a "wood for food" program administered by the UN.

[Kevin]

No Blood For Maple Syrup!

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No Blood For Maple Syrup!

I can see the bumper stickers and protests now (with me among them).
We'll be waving giant tree branches and shouting "think of the saplings".

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

"think of the saplings"

[Cadaver]

It would be less expensive for the US to send over a ton of people, have them stay until such time that they have voting rights in Canada, then vote to allow Canada to be annexed by the US.

[zizban]

I say trade the dakotas for New Brunswick. We'll add it to Maine.

[Pendergast]

Some people are bored out like it is a concern...

So far, all US invasions of Canada have been met in kind.

I don't see why it would be any different today, or tomorrow.

[ghporter]

And considering the last time this war plan was updated was in 1934-and it was declassified in 1974-I don't think anyone has to worry about it.

There's probably a war plan for invading and subduing California-and it's probably up to date! Ya never know...

[Athens]

like to point out, this made the paper and Canada actually had a invasion plan 10 years before that US one too.

[Monique]

It has already been invaded economically not physically. What the Americans want from us, we already have given it to them. Our best people go work in the United States for better wages and better conditions and the Americans possess 80% of our economy.

[Athens]

Actually I think China owns 80% of our economy, as is the case in the US to lol. And as the dollar gets stronger the trend of people going down south will change. Already people are moving back.

[Monique]

No they are not. 500,000 Canadians live in the United States, and do not give me the s..t about health care. You do not live in a country for the simple reason it is easy to get health care. The best of every profession end up in the United States after they realized they get better salary and can get great living conditions.

Athens don't you want to live in the U.S. by any chance.

[ghporter]

Better salaries in the U.S. come in many cases from the employers being able to cut costs on health care insurance. There are also some companies that are in the U.S. but not Canada, so if you want to work in a particular field, you may need to go south. As an example, my mom's supervisor in the ad agency she worked at in Detroit made the drive across the Ambasador Bridge every day from Windsor because there were no significant (or at least significant enough) ad agencies in that part of Ontario. This was almost 30 years ago, so considering the way things were in the late 1970s, I can't believe it was because this guy was secretly sneaking himself into permanent residence (he still lives in the Windsor area today).

[Leia's Left Bun]

Originally Posted by Monique

No they are not. 500,000 Canadians live in the United States, and do not give me the s..t about health care. You do not live in a country for the simple reason it is easy to get health care. The best of every profession end up in the United States after they realized they get better salary and can get great living conditions.

Athens don't you want to live in the U.S. by any chance.

Aren't you the same person who 5 years ago was bitching about their life in the middle of nowhere Canada and saying when you moved to the US you would be alright cuz it is all better?

How did the move go?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Monique

The best of every profession end up in the United States after they realized they get better salary and can get great living conditions.

I am sure there are GREAT people on BOTH sides of the man made divide.

We need to stop thinking as "US vs THEM" in a competing way. We are very similar. More so than others would like to admit.

Why should an imaginary line seperate us and make us compete against each other?

[ghporter]

Well said, Kevin. I grew up near the border; the CBC was as familiar to me as ABC, The Friendly Giant (yep, I'm dating myself here!) was on as often as Captain Kangaroo and Romper Room. I never felt there was any real difference between Canadians and U.S. citizens (except that Canadians demanded cleaner streets ), and I still don't. We have different but linked economies, enormously closely linked social systems, and a shared heritage that transcends any differences. Why be antagonistic on a person-to-person basis?

One thing I didn't mention about the war plan that started this thread: in the 1930s the U.S. was by law not only neutral but isolationist. The whole point of the update to the war plan was probably to keep that statutory isolation intact. When Europe started spiraling down the pooper everything changed...

[Kevin]

I think we should go back to being isolationists IMHO.

No good deed gets unpunished.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Monique

No they are not. 500,000 Canadians live in the United States, and do not give me the s..t about health care. You do not live in a country for the simple reason it is easy to get health care. The best of every profession end up in the United States after they realized they get better salary and can get great living conditions.

Athens don't you want to live in the U.S. by any chance.

Hell NO! and btw just about as many Americans live in Canada. your not very bright

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Athens

your not very bright

Well she IS a woman you know.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Well said, Kevin. I grew up near the border; the CBC was as familiar to me as ABC, The Friendly Giant (yep, I'm dating myself here!) was on as often as Captain Kangaroo and Romper Room. I never felt there was any real difference between Canadians and U.S. citizens (except that Canadians demanded cleaner streets ), and I still don't. We have different but linked economies, enormously closely linked social systems, and a shared heritage that transcends any differences. Why be antagonistic on a person-to-person basis?

One thing I didn't mention about the war plan that started this thread: in the 1930s the U.S. was by law not only neutral but isolationist. The whole point of the update to the war plan was probably to keep that statutory isolation intact. When Europe started spiraling down the pooper everything changed...

The only real difference I find is social attitudes. Canadians the majority is in the middle, the US the majority leans either left or right. And thats enough for me to stay here And no mon I have no desire to live in the US. I did a personal study last year comparing the cost of living to wages and found there is no difference. The US has lower income tax but the higher rate of energy, insurance and other factors in cost of living, and this is excluding paying for excellent medical insurance I found even with the slightly higher taxes here, I still got more from it and still had more disposable income here at home. As I said a dozen times before. You have never even been to the United States mon, you are running purely off the internet, books and TV.

[Athens]

oops dp

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Well she IS a woman you know.

Ya but still, some times she makes Rob look good

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Athens

Hell NO! and btw just about as many Americans live in Canada. your not very bright

Umm, you're not very bright either, pal.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Athens

The only real difference I find is social attitudes. Canadians the majority is in the middle, the US the majority leans either left or right. And thats enough for me to stay here

You obviously haven't figured out that "middle" "left" and "right" are all relative terms. The majority in every country are in the middle of that country's politics.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

You obviously haven't figured out that "middle" "left" and "right" are all relative terms. The majority in every country are in the middle of that country's politics.

I agree most countries populations are in the middle except extreme countries like Iran, THe USA. Americans are pretty split, either don't care or are Democrats or Republican. Please show me a party that is in the middle of the two?

[Athens]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Umm, you're not very bright either, pal.

and thats just a jab or you have anything to add. Like no its not true or yes its true. Like what are you trying to say here?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Athens

I agree most countries populations are in the middle except extreme countries like Iran, THe USA. Americans are pretty split, either don't care or are Democrats or Republican. Please show me a party that is in the middle of the two?

What he is saying is, most are moderate Democrats, or moderate Republicans.

The Extremes of the groups are in the minority. Even though they seem to be the vocal majority.

[Kerrigan]

Americans may want to consider moving to Canada to escape the Mexicans.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Americans may want to consider moving to Canada to escape the Mexicans.

I don't know about that, they would escape the Mexicans and be surrounded by Chinese Personally I think Mexican is easier to read and write hehe

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by Athens

I agree most countries populations are in the middle except extreme countries like Iran, THe USA. Americans are pretty split, either don't care or are Democrats or Republican. Please show me a party that is in the middle of the two?

No, you aren't getting it.

What I thought you would get, but you obviously have not is that the "middle" is in the the "middle" of any country's politics by definition. But that left and right are not absolute terms that maintain the same meaning across different countries. They are conventions, heavily dependent on context which varies from year to year, country to country. "Middle" is even more relative, since it is nothing but a statement about where the center of mass is between the "left" and "right" of a given political spread. There will be a spread in every country, but that spread will be different. And somewhere in the middle of that spread is a middle.

So your statement about comparing the "middle" in Canada with the "middle" in the US is doubly nonsensical. The center of the political spectrum in Canada isn't where the center of the political spectrum is in the US, dispite the fact that culturally the US and Canada are about as close as any two countries in the world. The political issues, history, and frames of reference are still different. The Canadian "right" isn't the same "right" as the US "right" and nor is the Canadian "left" the same as the US "left." The history is different, cultural frames of reference different, constitution different, and so on. Because of all that, the issues that divide each respective countries politically are also different. Because the polticial spectrum isn't the same, any statement about where the majority might align along that spectrum will also be different. You cannot treat relative terms like absolutes. Canadian society and politics is not interchangable with US, and vice versa.

What your statement actually said was simply that you feel more at home with the politics in Canada. To which most people would say, yes of course, that is what you are familiar with.

[Athens]

oh that craps. In the us the gap between rich and poor, have and have nots is growing every year. There is no real middle class any more but a have and have not class. Same goes with pollitics. your ether a bush loving gun swinging my money is my money red neck or the other guy. I have dozens of Americans on my MSN list and I speak to many Americans every night at work and its all pretty much the same... Even on these boards is shows.

[Kevin]

meh I don't think that wide brushes covers most of Americans Athens.

[kmkkid]

Please. All countries have plans to take over almost every other country in the world.

I know Canada's plan for the US already. If they ever attacked us, we'd just launch a few of the thousands of nukes we have stored in the Northwest, and Rockies

I know they all say we don't have them, but in reality what country is going to manufacture nukes for the US without at least having double or tripple as many as they send to them?

[Athens]

oh we have them. I know

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Athens

oh we have them. I know

Not the one in your pants sweetcakes

[Athens]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Not the one in your pants sweetcakes

so now im a sweetcake

are you hitting on me

The one in my pants is a torpedo, nothing radioactive in it, just very reactive

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Athens

so now im a sweetcake

are you hitting on me

The one in my pants is a torpedo, nothing radioactive in it, just very reactive

Well it's not in the workplace, so it's permitted right


Just trying to break up a thread that will eventually burn to the ground is all

[Kevin]

You two sound like two jr high kids. It's so cute.

And it's not even spring.

[Athens]

and I thought you went to bed Kevin, is km and I making to much noise for you to sleep

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

You two sound like two jr high kids. It's so cute.

And it's not even spring.

It's felt like it here for the past 2 weeks. I'm scared a wicked storm is brewing. It's never this warm here without a blizzard around the corner.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

It's felt like it here for the past 2 weeks. I'm scared a wicked storm is brewing. It's never this warm here without a blizzard around the corner.

agree

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Athens

and I thought you went to bed Kevin, is km and I making to much noise for you to sleep

Yeah, sorry Kevin, I am quite the howler monkey.

[Athens]

oh really .... sure your not a bottom?

[kmkkid]

dayum sure.

[Athens]

r u a top?

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

No, you aren't getting it.

What I thought you would get, but you obviously have not is that the "middle" is in the the "middle" of any country's politics by definition. But that left and right are not absolute terms that maintain the same meaning across different countries. They are conventions, heavily dependent on context which varies from year to year, country to country. "Middle" is even more relative, since it is nothing but a statement about where the center of mass is between the "left" and "right" of a given political spread. There will be a spread in every country, but that spread will be different. And somewhere in the middle of that spread is a middle.

So your statement about comparing the "middle" in Canada with the "middle" in the US is doubly nonsensical. The center of the political spectrum in Canada isn't where the center of the political spectrum is in the US, dispite the fact that culturally the US and Canada are about as close as any two countries in the world. The political issues, history, and frames of reference are still different. The Canadian "right" isn't the same "right" as the US "right" and nor is the Canadian "left" the same as the US "left." The history is different, cultural frames of reference different, constitution different, and so on. Because of all that, the issues that divide each respective countries politically are also different. Because the polticial spectrum isn't the same, any statement about where the majority might align along that spectrum will also be different. You cannot treat relative terms like absolutes. Canadian society and politics is not interchangable with US, and vice versa.

What your statement actually said was simply that you feel more at home with the politics in Canada. To which most people would say, yes of course, that is what you are familiar with.

Oh you are just being dumb now. Not every country has a middle. Infact does the US have a middle? You guys only have 2 parties to choose from after all. What about countries with only one political party? Think the majority in those countries consider themselves in the middle. No I think not.

The fact is, the concept of a "middle" is a luxury of the modern world, but is in no way the norm for most people of this planet.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by kmkkid

Please. All countries have plans to take over almost every other country in the world.

I know Canada's plan for the US already. If they ever attacked us, we'd just launch a few of the thousands of nukes we have stored in the Northwest, and Rockies

I know they all say we don't have them, but in reality what country is going to manufacture nukes for the US without at least having double or tripple as many as they send to them?

Na, why bother with messy radiation? We can just assult them with a "shock and awe" attack of easy listening music and witty comedians. Once the populus is distracted our mounties can ride into washington and burn the whitehouse down again, which will ofcourse demoralize them into submission!!

[kmkkid]

Originally Posted by Nicko

Na, why bother with messy radiation? We can just assult them with a "shock and awe" attack of easy listening music and witty comedians. Once the populus is distracted our mounties can ride into washington and burn the whitehouse down again, which will ofcourse demoralize them into submission!!

This must be the true plan, mine was of course the back-up plan