[starman]

Yup, it's official. Stores are breaking street date on media and players today.

[starman]

Hmm....glitches reported in playback and startup. That's not good.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by starman

Hmm....glitches reported in playback and startup. That's not good.

Where you see that?

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Where you see that?

http://www.the_ultimate_HD-DVD_review.com

[starman]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Where you see that?

http://www.avsforum.com

[Socially Awkward Solo]

"Samsung launched its BD-P1000 Blu-ray player earlier this morning and I feel I need to put my cards on the table. I’ve been watching the stars and I have a gut feeling that HD DVD is going to lose this bout, friends. It will not disappear completely, but it will be an also-ran down the line. Because the electronics market runs so quickly now—stuff disappears faster they can pump it out in Taiwan. UMD is off the shelves, Zip drives gave up the ghost, and thanks to Google, Microsoft Office might be getting consumptive pretty soon. The more things change, however…
Samsung has produced a very interesting product. The BD-P1000 is a large, healthy device with a 20 second BRD load-time and a crisp, clean picture. On a full 1080p set, the picture is as crisp as fresh-baked pizza and the audio is surround-sound-alicious. Whereas our experience with Toshiba’s offering was sub-par, the brief time that we were able to spend with the BD-P1000 proved two things: Samsung knows their **** and the BR is probably the horse to bet on.
The card reader doesn’t do very much except display still images at HD quality. It’s a nice addition, but nothing to write home about.
Feel free to flame me in a year when HD DVDs become the reigning king, but BR is backed by Samsung and Sony as well as a few other players. HD DVD gets lip service, but I don’t see much else coming out of that camp except for computer peripherals, which means HD might make a good backup medium down the line. In terms of usability and genuine content, however, BRD is probably the winner.
We’ll be getting a player next week, but until then, let’s mull over the various possibilities for the two formats and see what we, the Gizmodo quorum, feel."

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...yer-180950.php

[mdc]

Interesting point of view. I'm going to wait about a year or, maybe the end of 2008 before I buy either HD-DVD or a Blue-Ray player. I have absolutely no idea who is going win, at the end of the day, I don't really care, just as long as there is one, not two.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by mdc

Interesting point of view. I'm going to wait about a year or, maybe the end of 2008 before I buy either HD-DVD or a Blue-Ray player. I have absolutely no idea who is going win, at the end of the day, I don't really care, just as long as there is one, not two.

Getting a PS3 is a pretty safe bet as even if blu-ray doesn't "win" it won't make the PS3 useless.

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Getting a PS3 is a pretty safe bet as even if blu-ray doesn't "win" it won't make the PS3 useless.

I agree. IMHO, I think blu-ray will win out. Once the PS3 is released, there will automatically be a built in audience.

Unlike DVD vs. DIVX (of the late 90's), blu-ray vs. HD-DVD doesn't have enough of a difference between the two for most people to make a clear decision. I'm guessing there will be a number of people that say "Well, I was going to buy a HD player... and this doubles as a game console... why not?" or the other way around.

Also, Sony has a solid name for most consumers. They aren't great, but they are usually better than most of the no name junk out there.

[starman]

You forget that people are rather pissed off at the $600 pricetag of the PS3.

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by starman

You forget that people are rather pissed off at the $600 pricetag of the PS3.

The people only looking for a console game are pissed... but the movie/game players out there are excited. One box and they get a next generation movie player and game console.

I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by starman

You forget that people are rather pissed off at the $600 pricetag of the PS3.

Less pissed than a $1000 stand along movie player.

Buy ya, if all you want is games then $600 is a bit high but if they don't like it they can get a wii.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

Also, Sony has a solid name for most consumers. They aren't great, but they are usually better than most of the no name junk out there.

Betamax
Minidisc
Memory Stick
MicroMV
SDDS
UMD
ATRAC
That stupid thing with the CDs that would wreck Windows

Yeah, they *might* win this time, but I'm not putting up any money until the battle is over.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Betamax
Minidisc
Memory Stick
MicroMV
SDDS
UMD
ATRAC
That stupid thing with the CDs that would wreck Windows

Yeah, they *might* win this time, but I'm not putting up any money until the battle is over.

Um there is nothing wrong with Memory sticks, minidisc or SDDS and ATRAC gave people compressed music long before MP3's became popular.

[analogika]

Apple is backing Blu-Ray, too, no?

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Betamax
Minidisc
Memory Stick
MicroMV
SDDS
UMD
ATRAC
That stupid thing with the CDs that would wreck Windows

Yeah, they *might* win this time, but I'm not putting up any money until the battle is over.

Notice how I said for most consumers. If you think even a small fraction of consumers knows what Minidisc, MicroMV, SDDS, UMD, ATRAC (or that silly thing that would wreck Windows) you are kidding yourself.

Most consumers see Sony as offering good quality products.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by analogika

Apple is backing Blu-Ray, too, no?

Yep, they sure are.

[Stratus Fear]

Originally Posted by starman

You forget that people are rather pissed off at the $600 pricetag of the PS3.

You know, the funny thing about that is I've heard little complaining outside of Internet forums, and I'm quite sure that those, and the hardcore gamers, don't make most of the market. Not by a long shot.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

Most consumers see Sony as offering good quality products.

Sony unarguably makes amazing, LCD TV's, Cameras, computers and phones. They always get top notch reviews. If I had to get a PC it would be a sony for sure.

Plus does anyone NOT have a PS2?

Some of there products are more mediocre like stereo systems, and MP3 players but I don't think they suck because of it, I just buy those products from other companies.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Stratus Fear

You know, the funny thing about that is I've heard little complaining outside of Internet forums, and I'm quite sure that those, and the hardcore gamers, don't make most of the market. Not by a long shot.

You're right, people had a heart attack at the Xbox 360 price and it is selling above expectations.

The PS3 will sell like mad but might deter a small fraction because of the high price. Right now it is just media and internet fodder that is making all the fuss.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

Notice how I said for most consumers. If you think even a small fraction of consumers knows what Minidisc

That particular one there is a circuitous argument.

Had it been successful, more people WOULD know what the hell it is, and they would've heard of ATRAC as well.

And they were actually pretty widespread. It's only been in the past three years or so that the mp3 revolution and the iPod killed off the format.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by analogika

That particular one there is a circuitous argument.

Had it been successful, more people WOULD know what the hell it is, and they would've heard of ATRAC as well.

Minidisc and ATRAC are almost more popular than any other MP3 player in the east.

There is no reason it shouldn't have caught on in the west in the 90's. The players were small, the media was dirt cheap and it is better than CD walkmans then and now.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

There is no reason it shouldn't have caught on in the west in the 90's. The players were small, the media was dirt cheap and it is better than CD walkmans then and now.

Because we already had CDs and didn't need to waste money on new players and the same music in a new format. It had too little to offer in comparison with the expense when you considered your sunk cost with CDs. At least with DVD (and I'm assuming BluRay & HDDVD), I'll still be able to play my CDs in it.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Um there is nothing wrong with Memory sticks, minidisc or SDDS and ATRAC gave people compressed music long before MP3's became popular.

Memory sticks are only in Sony products. Everyone else just uses CF or SD. Why the hell make another format? It just makes life worse for consumers. It's bad enough that we had two incompatible formats, why punish us with another? Incompatibility is bad for consumers.

SDDS was a waste of time and money. We already had Dolby and SDDS failed to do anything to supplant it.

They were still using ATRAC in new products as recently as last year, marketing the product against the iPod and other MP3 players. It's deceptive, because the consumer darn well doesn't realize that it's some proprietary turd that isn't MP3.

[Madrag]

I think blu-ray is the way to go, fortunatelly apple also thinks so
25GB :-)

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Because we already had CDs and didn't need to waste money on new players and the same music in a new format.

Yet we needed iPods?

Minidisc was about recording your own tracks not buying pre-recorded music on MD.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Minidisc and ATRAC are almost more popular than any other MP3 player in the east.

There is no reason it shouldn't have caught on in the west in the 90's. The players were small, the media was dirt cheap and it is better than CD walkmans then and now.

Minidisc caught on in the tech-crazy East in the early-to-mid-nineties.

As is normal, the technology didn't get pushed in the West until a few years later, at which time there was some confusion with DCC (anybody remember those?) and other formats as to what would be the home-recordable CD alternative to replace cassettes.

There was only a very few years before CD burners became mass-affordable (around 97/98).

The only market minidisc ever caught on in over here was the mobile-recording segment - meaning it was mostly a market of musicians, techs, and journalists.
Hardly anybody else ever needs to record on the road: CD burners and Discmen were the much better alternative for mass market. Cheap, standard-format, universally compatible, and (close enough to) lossless copies.

Why the hell would anybody opt for ANOTHER format if every music device he buys already has an integrated CD player?

UNLESS of course it's something that is so immensely more practical and actually eliminates the need for burning and carrying around stacks of optical media, while being incredibly easy to use.

Enter iPod.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by meelk

oh, and dark helmet is a gaybag. Choke on the cock you lame f*ck. then drive your miata and type on your mac and drink your f*cking starbucks.

Quoted as evidence of complete unfitness to live.

Go crawl back up Limbaugh's ass, you disgrace to the human race.

Edit: Dammit, when I hit reply, the ****er had apparently already edited out the "n*gger" and the other harsher stuff.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

I don't even like starbucks or Miatas

I do like cock though, but I don't choke on em, it's a god given talent

[ort888]

All of my friends are laughing about the PS3 price tag. These are all casual gamers in their 30s who were planning on getting a PS3. After hearing the $600 price tag, all of them said they would pass.

I think there is a market for a $600 PS3, but it's going to dry up really quick. Sony's bread and butter isn't the 10 million hardcore gamers, it's the 70 million casuals. Those are the people who won't pay $600. They won't pay $400 or $300 either. Most of the gaming market buys consoles for $200 or less.

How long will it take the $499 PS3 to hit $200? 4 years?

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by ort888

All of my friends are laughing about the PS3 price tag. These are all casual gamers in their 30s who were planning on getting a PS3. After hearing the $600 price tag, all of them said they would pass.

That's their choice. But for every person that laughs at it there will be 2 more that are highly impressed with what you get and pay it.

[mdc]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

I don't even like starbucks or Miatas

I do like cock though, but I don't choke on em, it's a god given talent

I just laughed out loud at work.

Anyway, I don't have a PS2. I agree with what's said about the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player driving the cost down. If Blu-Ray goes south then I don't think I'll be getting a PS3, $600 for a video game console is too much. If Blu-Ray wins, then yeah, I'll probably get one.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

I don't even like starbucks or Miatas

I do like cock though, but I don't choke on em, it's a god given talent

Whoa.......too much info!

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Seems HD-DVD is already getting a price cut which is rather soon...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060616-7074.html

Also why are HD-DVD disk MORE than Blu-ray when one of the advantages of HD-DVD is the cheaper manufacturer costs?

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by ort888

All of my friends are laughing about the PS3 price tag. These are all casual gamers in their 30s who were planning on getting a PS3. After hearing the $600 price tag, all of them said they would pass.

The PS2 is now $129. I'll just wait for the PS3 to come down a bit. I'm not forking out $600. I say that, but I'll end up with a Wii anyway. More fun for the wife and kids.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Wow, just in size and style alone the Blu-ray kills.



http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=0151

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Wow, just in size and style alone the Blu-ray kills.



http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=0151

[starman]

Reviews of T5E are piss poor. Sony's getting slammed for using MPEG-2.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by starman

Reviews of T5E are piss poor. Sony's getting slammed for using MPEG-2.

Hey, that's what happens when you rush something to market.

Can you show us these reviews?

[starman]

I already gave you the link, but I guess you need it again

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=150

All the links you'd need are in there.

[starman]

xXx panned

"This is third Blu-ray title I've reviewed so far, and it comes after the mixed results I had encountered previously with the disappointing 'The Fifth Element,' and the better if inconsistent '50 First Dates.' Unfortunately, the disc I hoped would be my first knockout now leaves me batting zero for three. While 'xXx' does look pretty good on Blu-ray, it still suffers from some noticeable image quality problems that, quite frankly, I just didn't expect from a format that has been has highly touted as this one."

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/xxx.html#Video

Hooray for Blu-Ray.

Good thing I didn't open the box.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by starman

I already gave you the link, but I guess you need it again

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=150

All the links you'd need are in there.

Um am I supposed to read your mind when you mention a review it automatically means the same site? Not to mention you only linked to the homepage and I am not sifting through that site to find your review.

It seems that peoples issues with Blu-ray right now is the disk transfers. The ones reviewed are from the same studio.

As far as I know MPEG2 isn't the cause for the mentioned problems but I am sure Eug will be happy to give us the rundown on that.

The same site you linked to also gave positive reviews on the other blu-ray movies:

"Still, it is clear even from this release that Blu-ray can deliver on the bottom line, so I only expect to be even more impressed by the coming Blu-ray titles in the week's ahead. "

"Certainly, in terms of a Blu-ray release, this is comparable to most of what has come out on HD DVD so far. Great picture, good sound, and a typical port of the DVD supplemental features (even if not everything made it over in the conversion)."

http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/50firstdates.html

[starman]

The link is to the "Blu-Ray Software" forum. Here's a list of what's there, since you obviously didn't click the link:

xXx Review from High-Def DVD Digest - RussTC3

Cancelled my Blu-Ray movie titles - zalahmar

5th Element poor quality due to lack of space for mpeg2 on Blu-Ray? ( Multi-page thread 1 2 3 ) - Ruined

Silent Hill (and RV) announced w/cover art - bac

The Terminator for $11.99 - zalahmar

Poll: What do you believe is the main reason for no two 25GB BD releases from Sony? - darinp2

Just saw House of Flying Daggers on new Samsung player at BB ( Multi-page thread 1 2 ) - jefe noche

Sony encoders cut black and white levels! ( Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 ... Last Post ) - steviec

Forget Terminator, where is T2!~ - djpheer

Scratch resistant? Prove it. - 30XS955 User

Sony dropped the ball with initial BD titles? ( Multi-page thread 1 2 ) - blueskies758

5th Element - Bad Transfer? - assJack1

Metro-Atlanta Blu-ray software sightings? - BigMikeATL

Underworld Evolution Reviews? - los seres

First disc reviews out! - Grubert

Thoughts on Blu-ray/HD DVD by Kaz Hirai (President and CEO of SCEA) - RussTC3

Terminator (Blu-Ray) Review!!! ( Multi-page thread 1 2 ) - jfrost

[Socially Awkward Solo]

I clicked the link and read most of the bitching. You can see equal bitching in the HD-DVD thread.

Like I said the issues seem to be with the disks not the players. The disks can be fixed but that HD-DVD player you own will always be **** no matter the ROM update.

Samsung also makes some **** products. I had their upconverting DVD player and it had black crush, the bitching on the forums was unbelievable.

My samsung DLP Tv died a slow death over 10 months. The same forums you link to has thousands of people in the same boat.

Fact of the matter is, no matter what first gen product you but it isn't going to be that hot. We need more players and movies on the market for both formats before we can make any "dropped the bomb" drama queen comments.

[starman]

Well when Pioneer comes out with their $1800 BR player and there are sh*tty BR discs on the market, you tell me if BR has any chance of surviving.

Have you seen the extras on the BR discs? No? Because there are none! HD-DVD discs all have extras.

As for the ROM update on the Toshiba, the last update I did on it fixed several issues. At least I'm not locked into a sh*tty ROM with sh*tty discs like BR and Samsung.

So you tell me, with T5E out on BR, your favorite movie, would you drop $1000 to see it in its artifacted, dust-invested glory (and in the wrong aspect ratio?).

As for Samsung, that's your fault for not waiting on reviews to buy something /shrug. At least I didn't open the box of my BR machine.

The fact is, Sony's bullsh*t propoganda machine promised all this HD glory and they delivered crap. Utter crap. This isn't "first gen" bullsh*t, Pro HD tools have been out for YEARS. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR BAD BR DISCS.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

So again starman, you pretty much backed up that it is the studio's fault and not the player or the format.

You do realize that tomorrow they could come out with a blu-ray disk that has all the features you like and the best quality.

And as for the samsung, I did about 60 hours of research before I got the equipment, I was just one of the unlucky ones that got more than one lemon. Luckily I got my money back for all of it and now have sony's that work astoundingly well.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

You do realize that tomorrow they could come out with a blu-ray disk that has all the features you like and the best quality.

Dead wrong.

Here's the problem: SONY DOES THE MASTERING.

Even if the movie is from Disney, SONY does the mastering. This isn't HD-DVD where anyone who has the tools can do it. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

Until Sony gets 50GB discs out, THERE WILL BE NO GOOD BR DISCS, NOT TOMORROW, NOT EVER.

Also, Sony doesn't have the VC-1 encoder tools either, so they're still screwed.

Any questions?

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by starman

Dead wrong.

Here's the problem: SONY DOES THE MASTERING.

Even if the movie is from Disney, SONY does the mastering. This isn't HD-DVD where anyone who has the tools can do it. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

Until Sony gets 50GB discs out, THERE WILL BE NO GOOD BR DISCS, NOT TOMORROW, NOT EVER.

Also, Sony doesn't have the VC-1 encoder tools either, so they're still screwed.

Any questions?

No questions. You better return that player and cancel your PS3 pre-order and call it a day then.
I however am not making any judgments this soon.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Wow, just in size and style alone the Blu-ray kills.



http://dvd.themanroom.com/dvd-newsview.php?id=0151

Although I have the BD-P1000 hooked up to a Panasonic 1080i LCD projector, the player failed to recognize the best possible video feed and defaulted to 720p. Neither the remote nor the player’s face has a button to switch between resolutions, leaving the setup menu as the only option. Upon selecting 1080i, the following screen appears:



When finally completing the switch to 1080i, the menus substantially shrink in size and an annoying vertical flicker plagues all screen text:



---

That's a deal-killer IMO, esp. for a $1000 player.

Originally Posted by starman

Dead wrong.

Here's the problem: SONY DOES THE MASTERING.

Even if the movie is from Disney, SONY does the mastering. This isn't HD-DVD where anyone who has the tools can do it. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

Until Sony gets 50GB discs out, THERE WILL BE NO GOOD BR DISCS, NOT TOMORROW, NOT EVER.

Also, Sony doesn't have the VC-1 encoder tools either, so they're still screwed.

Any questions?

I don't agree with the statement that 25 GB + MPEG2 = bad, but I definitely know where you're coming from. Months ago several people raised this as a possible issue at AVS, and it appears that the concerns have come true.

The issue is that 50 GB discs are so far vapourware, and Sony has no viable H.264 or VC-1 authoring tools as of yet. Furthermore, according to the MS guys, Sony refused MS's help on developing VC-1 for Blu-ray. Now, obviously, the MS guys are going to have a biased opinion on this, but nonetheless it always seemed to me that Sony wanted to avoid VC-1, so I would not be surprised if this were true.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

That's a deal-killer IMO, esp. for a $1000 player.

You forgot the line that says it ONLY happens in the menu and not the movies. Also something that can be fixed with a ROM update but this smells of typical samsung crap.