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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > So, what's up with Panther 7B21?

So, what's up with Panther 7B21? (Page 3)
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Jim Paradise
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Jul 28, 2003, 05:49 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
If I do that I get back to Metal Finder. If I go customize toolbar with the aqua finder it does look like its going to work, it shows me the tool bar and the stuff I can put in it, but when I click okay it just hides. When I do customize it though in the toolbar there is a very faint aqua stripes running through it, so maybe Apple is thinking about it. But maybe they get that for free. Also all of the Finder toolbar buttons seem to be missing their left edges, even in the customize toolbar window.

When using Expose to show desktop there is now a 20 pixel dark border around the screen and in there is where all the windows stop at. There still out of the way but you can still see a little bit of them around the screen.

I'm going to look around Safari and see what I can find. I forgot about the debug menu so I'll try turning that on.
Wait... so even if at the moment the Aqua Finder isn't quite working properly, Apple put in the option to change to an Aqua Finder from the brushed metal....??
     
tRr
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Jul 28, 2003, 06:14 PM
 
Originally posted by Jim Paradise:
Wait... so even if at the moment the Aqua Finder isn't quite working properly, Apple put in the option to change to an Aqua Finder from the brushed metal....??
I guess I wasn't really clear, as it is right now when you switch to Aqua Finder you loose the toolbar and the sidebar, so it isn't quite the old Finder yet, but at last brushed metal is gone.

What I was trying to say is that when you are in Aqua Finder you can go View-Customize Tool Bar, and you can add things to Aqua toolbar that appears. When you click "Done" though to dismiss the sheet, the toolbar hides with it. So as of right now there is no way that I know of to have an Aqua Finder with a toolbar.
     
Jim Paradise
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Jul 28, 2003, 06:35 PM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
I guess I wasn't really clear, as it is right now when you switch to Aqua Finder you loose the toolbar and the sidebar, so it isn't quite the old Finder yet, but at last brushed metal is gone.

What I was trying to say is that when you are in Aqua Finder you can go View-Customize Tool Bar, and you can add things to Aqua toolbar that appears. When you click "Done" though to dismiss the sheet, the toolbar hides with it. So as of right now there is no way that I know of to have an Aqua Finder with a toolbar.
Well, that's what I meant by the Aqua finder not working quite properly yet... but at least the option to change to an Aqua Finder is there (that was my biggest gripe). ^_^ I'm glad that Apple is listening to their users.
     
clarkgoble
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Jul 28, 2003, 07:31 PM
 
One thing to remember is that sometimes in the past significant new features weren't ready for the major system update. So they were added to the .1 system. Think of Sys8.1 which was when HFS+ was released. And 8.1 was a free upgrade to 8.0 users.

Likewise Sys 7.1 gave us world script and the font directory.

So some of the features we've been most excited about (more metadata and "saved searches / smart folders along with a new file system) might get rolled into 10.3.1.

Likewise with 10.2 one significant new feature, minimize in place, was removed at the last minute. It was in all the betas but didn't make the final cut. (Wisely I think - Expose is a much better solution)

Also realize that the betas going around are more "public" betas. There have been betas I've seen screen shots of that have different features.

Finally one must point out that Apple's been much more willing to spread out features and provide them when they are sufficiently finished. Consider Safari and X11.app.

All in all, even if the features we want aren't ready for October or whenever 10.3 ships, they may be here come January.
     
mamamia
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Jul 28, 2003, 07:44 PM
 
Originally posted by clarkgoble:
One thing to remember is that sometimes in the past significant new features weren't ready for the major system update. So they were added to the .1 system. Think of Sys8.1 which was when HFS+ was released. And 8.1 was a free upgrade to 8.0 users.

Likewise Sys 7.1 gave us world script and the font directory.

So some of the features we've been most excited about (more metadata and "saved searches / smart folders along with a new file system) might get rolled into 10.3.1.
You are talking about two totally time periods in apple's history. What apple did in the days of 7.1 and 8.1 ha no bearing what so ever on their current practice. We have enough data now (after two plus years) to know that the point release in OS X do not add major features (only exception to this rule that I know of was perhaps the addition of journaling). Point releases fix bugs, optimize interfaces, etc.
funky bitch
     
DBvader
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Jul 28, 2003, 07:55 PM
 
but, with jag, a lot of key features (iSync, iCal, iTunes 4, etc) were released either with later revisions or just later in the OS' cycle.

i dont know whether apple will or will not omit something, and choose to add it later with a point release...i think if they had enough time, they are going to cram as much as they possible can, and anything that isnt done by then will be added later.
"Take a little dope...and walk out in the air"
     
Art Vandelay
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Jul 28, 2003, 08:22 PM
 
Originally posted by DBvader:
but, with jag, a lot of key features (iSync, iCal, iTunes 4, etc) were released either with later revisions or just later in the OS' cycle.

i dont know whether apple will or will not omit something, and choose to add it later with a point release...i think if they had enough time, they are going to cram as much as they possible can, and anything that isnt done by then will be added later.
Those are all separate from the OS. They have their own development cycles.
Vandelay Industries
     
MindFad
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Jul 28, 2003, 08:32 PM
 
You can turn off brushed Finder? Hallelujah, brotha! And that side crap goes away? Good. I could live with those side things in the Finder if I could choose which windows to have it on, and if I could make it Aqua again Good job, Apple. Man, I'm excited for Panther.
     
Adam Betts
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Jul 28, 2003, 09:37 PM
 
I'm using it right now...

MUCH, MUCH better than DP1!

Dare I say it, SNAPPY!
     
benb
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Jul 28, 2003, 09:41 PM
 
Originally posted by Adam Betts:
I'm using it right now...

MUCH, MUCH better than DP1!

Dare I say it, SNAPPY!
You must have started eariler in the day then. When I got home, Bittorrent Kicks Ass was down. Has been all night too.

     
mamamia
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Jul 28, 2003, 09:45 PM
 
Originally posted by Adam Betts:
I'm using it right now...

MUCH, MUCH better than DP1!

Dare I say it, SNAPPY!
please elaborate
funky bitch
     
iFix Rene
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Jul 28, 2003, 09:50 PM
 
Mindfad...
the minute you switch to aqua finder
toolbar and sidebar dissapear leaving
one with a unhandy OS9 multi window Finder

I think they only did it coz toolbarless
brushed windows looked pretty bad.

not that it is any better now, the Finder
is AND Aqua AND Brushed now...
toolbar and toolbarless windows opened
together look a right mess
If it ain't broken... Fix it!�
     
gorickey
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Jul 28, 2003, 10:13 PM
 
Fun bugs in this build so far...

1.) iChat prefs don't stick...you have to "Register" your account each time you launch the application...

2.) As mentioned before, Trash doesn't empty (actually, it DOES empty) but the icon doesn't reflect that change...

Awesome, I love it.

     
bgmccollum
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Jul 28, 2003, 10:15 PM
 
Originally posted by gorickey:
You using Jaguar, still?

for work? OS9...

i did get it to install on my ibook no problem. i just cant get it to boot off the installer CD on my desktop.
     
Eddies in the aether
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Jul 28, 2003, 10:15 PM
 
Originally posted by foobars:
quote:
Originally posted by tRr:
In the Finder if you click that button on the right top side, it does give you an non-brushed metal Finder but its just like the Finder in OS 9, no toolbar or sidebar just folder stats, and amount of space available.


Not quite, go to View > Show Toolbar =)B]
This sounds like brushed metal in the Finder is now optional. Correct?
     
jessejlt
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Jul 28, 2003, 11:18 PM
 
Will someone PLEASE post the release notes for this build. And if possible, I would be most interested in the release notes for the new Xcode seed. You could post them, or message me and send them to me that way:
AIM: jessejlt

Danka;
jesse ;-)
     
gorickey
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Jul 28, 2003, 11:23 PM
 
Originally posted by jessejlt:
Will someone PLEASE post the release notes for this build. And if possible, I would be most interested in the release notes for the new Xcode seed. You could post them, or message me and send them to me that way:
AIM: jessejlt

Danka;
jesse ;-)
http://www.railheaddesign.com

     
Adam Betts
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Jul 28, 2003, 11:38 PM
 
Here's a treat for all of you..














This screenshot doesn't do any justice but when seeing it in motion, you will see it minimize (windowshade style) but move up smooth, not "snap"



Those screenshots are subjective to be taken down at any time.
     
ambush
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Jul 28, 2003, 11:57 PM
 
Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Here's a treat for all of you..

Those screenshots are subjective to be taken down at any time.
WHAT!? Built-In drop shadow support!? Nice!

Can't wait!

     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Jul 29, 2003, 12:12 AM
 
Originally posted by ambush:
WHAT!? Built-In drop shadow support!? Nice!

Can't wait!

I thought they demo'd that in DP3?

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
ambush
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Jul 29, 2003, 12:21 AM
 
Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I thought they demo'd that in DP3?
Yes?
     
lookmark
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Jul 29, 2003, 12:23 AM
 
Demoed as an ability of Quartz. Now it looks like it's built into the Cocoa as an API and available to every (Cocoa, at least) app.

Pretty cool.
     
zachs
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Jul 29, 2003, 12:49 AM
 
Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Here's a treat for all of you..

[...]

Those screenshots are subjective to be taken down at any time.
What does the "Submit Bug Report" button on the Unexpectedly Quit dialog do? Does it just take you to bugrepot.apple.com?
     
bgmccollum
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Jul 29, 2003, 12:52 AM
 
could this be the fruits of the CSS3 drop shadow API dave hyatt was talking about?

(this API i believe was an opensource one for applying drowshadows to text and Hyatt modified it for safari and CSS3 use)
     
Adam Betts
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Jul 29, 2003, 12:53 AM
 
Originally posted by zachs:
What does the "Submit Bug Report" button on the Unexpectedly Quit dialog do? Does it just take you to bugrepot.apple.com?
It is like a "basic" version of Safari's Bug Report Sheet.
     
zachs
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Jul 29, 2003, 12:59 AM
 
Originally posted by Adam Betts:
It is like a "basic" version of Safari's Bug Report Sheet.
Cool...one more thing. What's in the Advanced section of the Finder Prefs?
     
brainchild2b
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Jul 29, 2003, 01:01 AM
 
iCal 1.5 is included with 7b21. It rocks! When you make a new even no longer does it open that stupid inspector window, you can edit the even right on the date. It's speedy too!

Lots of right click goodness in iCal as well to add new events and stuff. Gee this is getting useful..
     
zachs
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Jul 29, 2003, 01:04 AM
 
nevermind
     
7Macfreak
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Jul 29, 2003, 01:09 AM
 
in the chess screen shot, the white knight's facing the wrong direction, no?
     
Adam Betts
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Jul 29, 2003, 01:21 AM
 
Originally posted by zachs:
Cool...one more thing. What's in the Advanced section of the Finder Prefs?
It contain old options such as:

*Show all file extensions
*Show hidden files
*Show warning before emptying the Trash

Languages for searching file contents:
< Select... >
     
cpk0
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Jul 29, 2003, 01:22 AM
 
re: chess, i dont think so. If you look at the ridge, they are on the 'outside' side of the knights for both black and white, and the black knights look like they are facing correctly when viewed from the front.
     
7Macfreak
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Jul 29, 2003, 01:46 AM
 
Originally posted by cpk0:
re: chess, i dont think so. If you look at the ridge, they are on the 'outside' side of the knights for both black and white, and the black knights look like they are facing correctly when viewed from the front.
you're right.
     
undotwa
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Jul 29, 2003, 02:21 AM
 
Lots of elements in Panther, dare do I say, look so tacky?
In vino veritas.
     
danengel
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Jul 29, 2003, 02:31 AM
 
Originally posted by Moose:
Most Western European languages work fine with ISO Latin-1.

Also, the shell is just a small part of the whole piece. All the utilities need to be rewritten to accommodate Unicode. This is not a trivial task.
My terminal doesn't work when I try to enter umlauts (���). I tried all Terminal character set encodings, but neither the shell-prompt nor emacs accept special characters.

Funny thing #1 is that emacs can display umlauts if you enter them numerically, like (insert 2294), but it doesn't accept them from the keyboard.

Funny thing #2 is when I SSH from the OS X Terminal into my university's Solaris box, I can enter umlauts, and they are displayed correctly. WTF?
     
digital_dreamer
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Jul 29, 2003, 03:09 AM
 
Login Items
What happened to the Login Items in System Preferences? Are they hiding somewhere else? Sorry if this has already been discussed.

Font Palette:
Can you demonstrate to us some of the tools and their functions in the Font Palette? Pretty Please? I'd assume those functions are only available to cocoa applications, correct?

� I see a underline and strikethrough, each with pull-down menus. What's with that?
� What follows the Font Color feature?
� Additional button after separator?
� Shadow distance?
� Glow?
� Gradient?
� Character orientation in degrees?

Eagerly awaiting your responses!

regards,
MAJ
     
Sarc
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Jul 29, 2003, 03:30 AM
 
The "Secure Empty Trash" Menu in the Finder looks good ...

Secure Empty Trash:
- 1 Pass Secure Empty
- 7 Pass Secure Empty
- 35 Pass Secure Empty

hmmm one less Stuffit Deluxe app. needed, Zip Support, now this ... hmmmm

Also, the OCR Services for Image Capture are gone in this build, however the ability to share a scanner/scan over a network remains.
:: frankenstein / lcd-less TiBook / 1GHz / radeon 9000 64MB / 1GB RAM / w/ext. 250GB fw drive / noname usb bluetooth dongle / d-link usb 2.0 pcmcia card / X.5.8
:: unibody macbook pro / 2.4 Ghz C2D / 6GB RAM / dell 2407wfp - X.6.3
     
JKT
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Jul 29, 2003, 04:56 AM
 
Originally posted by digital_dreamer:
Font Palette:
Can you demonstrate to us some of the tools and their functions in the Font Palette? Pretty Please? I'd assume those functions are only available to cocoa applications, correct?

� I see a underline and strikethrough, each with pull-down menus. What's with that?
� What follows the Font Color feature?
� Additional button after separator?
� Shadow distance?
� Glow?
� Gradient?
� Character orientation in degrees?

Eagerly awaiting your responses!

regards,
MAJ
I don't have Panther, but I'll play guess the answers:

1. Double underline/strikethrough are the other options in the drop downs
2. Background (page) colour for text
3. Add/remove shadow
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. Yes
7. Nope - shadow location around the characters in degrees

Looks excellent... but it had better be available to Carbon apps as well! We, the end users, should not be able to tell the difference anymore and all features should be equal between the two.

A few questions about specific apps:

Calculator:

- can you enter negative value powers now (unless I'm being completely boneheaded, it isn't possible in the Jaguar calc)?

- can you use brackets yet?

iCal

- can you enter timed events that span multiple days (e.g. from 6pm on Monday to 6am on Tuesday)?

- is there a "Go To: xyz date" option yet?

TIA
( Last edited by JKT; Jul 29, 2003 at 05:02 AM. )
     
entrox
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Jul 29, 2003, 05:08 AM
 
Originally posted by Adam Betts:
ARGH! This is the feature I despised the most in the brief time I've used Windows XP. The reporting button is even the default one! Oh please, please, please let them change that dialog before Panther is shipped to non-developers.
     
STH
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Jul 29, 2003, 05:17 AM
 
Some more:

Use the scrollwheel in Quicktime to cue back and forth(!)

Drag and Drop images on Adressbook will bring up a resize/crop window just like in iChat.

Good stuff.
     
himself
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Jul 29, 2003, 05:54 AM
 
man, I'm licking my chops waiting for panther to come slinking down the savanah so this eager hunter can bag it...

there is one interface quip I've always had, and I've been willing to let it go until Apple decides to (apparently) migrate to the brushed metal apperance for the finder (and potentially system-wide later on). Apple should definitely ad the horizontal separator between the title bar and the rest of the lower window, just as it is with the aqua appearance. It looks extremely awkward when a sheet (an aqua sheet at that) drops down from out of nowhere on a brushed metal window. I'm also a firm believer in that there should be some distinction between where the titlebar ends and the rest of the window begins.
     
richardb
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Jul 29, 2003, 06:24 AM
 
So does Panther freeze when a mounted network drive is disconnected?
Powerbook G4 1.2 Ghz, 1 Gb.
     
Chuckit
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Jul 29, 2003, 06:55 AM
 
Originally posted by JKT:
4. Yes
5. Yes
6. Yes
Actually, I think these would be shadow distance, shadow "fuzziness" (how concentrated the shadow is) and shadow darkness. Drop shadows are a built-in capability of Quartz, and these (together with the following direction option) are the normal options for it.
Chuck
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gorickey
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Jul 29, 2003, 07:06 AM
 
Originally posted by digital_dreamer:
Login Items
What happened to the Login Items in System Preferences? Are they hiding somewhere else? Sorry if this has already been discussed.
Those are now located under the "Accounts" pref pane for individual users to make too their liking....
     
Jan Van Boghout
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Jul 29, 2003, 07:08 AM
 
Originally posted by bgmccollum:
could this be the fruits of the CSS3 drop shadow API dave hyatt was talking about?

(this API i believe was an opensource one for applying drowshadows to text and Hyatt modified it for safari and CSS3 use)
That's not what Hyatt said, he said that shadowing was now built in to CoreGraphics (not opensource), so he didn't have to do much work actually making the shadows *draw*, he just had to interpret the css and call the new available shadowing calls. So it's really no different from what the TextEdit screenshot shows.
     
Geobunny
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Jul 29, 2003, 07:08 AM
 
Originally posted by STH:
Some more:

Use the scrollwheel in Quicktime to cue back and forth(!)

Drag and Drop images on Adressbook will bring up a resize/crop window just like in iChat.

Good stuff.
Nice to see the scrollwheel gaining more support in Apple Apps, but I hope they make it configurable - I currently use my scroll wheel for changing the volume in QT Player. It's very rare that I'd want to scrub back and forth when watching a video/film.
ClamXav - the free virus scanner for Mac OS X | Geobunny learns to fly
     
SYN  (op)
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Jul 29, 2003, 08:01 AM
 
the scroll wheel has scrubbed in QT under OSX for a while now...
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Drizzt
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Jul 29, 2003, 08:29 AM
 
Originally posted by brainchild2b:
iCal 1.5 is included with 7b21. It rocks! When you make a new even no longer does it open that stupid inspector window, you can edit the even right on the date. It's speedy too!

Lots of right click goodness in iCal as well to add new events and stuff. Gee this is getting useful..
Let's say you had a reminder @ 7h00AM but the computer was shut down, when you start it, does it tell you?

That's my current big gripe with iCal..
     
BZ
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Jul 29, 2003, 08:31 AM
 
Is the picture bug between Addressbook and Mail.app fixed.

If you have a picture of a person in AddressBook and you get an email from them, you should see that picture in the top right corner.

Anyone?

BZ
     
gorickey
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Jul 29, 2003, 08:34 AM
 
Originally posted by BZ:
Is the picture bug between Addressbook and Mail.app fixed.

If you have a picture of a person in AddressBook and you get an email from them, you should see that picture in the top right corner.

Anyone?

BZ
Yep, it's flawless in this build...
     
cybergoober
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Jul 29, 2003, 09:35 AM
 
Originally posted by tRr:
I could if I had a place to put them....

try www.macsnaps.com
     
 
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