[iumeda]

Hey y'all,

I just put together an example image to illustrate the difference in lumiocity between the horizontal lines of pixels. I took a photograph with my digital camera off of the screen of my 15" powerbook while it was in the "boot options" screen, apparently outside the mac OS (it's one of the tests that the applecare reps have you do). I split the image between the normal color state and an enhanced monochrome view that accentuates the difference in luminocity between the alternating pixel rows. Here is the link:

http://www.ianumeda.com/101/KIF_3383...+bw_split).jpg

I hope this helps. Incidentally, this image might be handy to place as your background image on your new Powerbook when you send it in to Applecare for repair. That was the impetus for my producing this image.

And as for the comments from those who are doubtful about the lines actually affecting people's work - I would say it does have a big effect on those of us who work in the graphics, design, and photographic imaging industry. On my powerbook all my images look like they've been through a "watercolor paper" filter. Doing pixel to pixel manipulation on images requires a quality screen that is dependable in its correct rendering of color and luminosity over its entirety.

Most powerbook users, I assume, don't depend so heavily on correct image rendering on the screen and for those users this screen is probably just fine. And for those users, honestly, the iBook series of laptop would probably suit their every need except perhaps for the desire for style and prestige. Like the urban Hummer phenomenon. The iBook is not marketed as a professional grade computer while the powerbook is.

Apple has made a name for themselves in the professional graphics industry for dependable and consistent quality. This screen issue on their new line of powerbooks is effectively downgrading the line of computers into the consumer grade. If Apple had changed the sales pitch on this line of 15" Powerbooks to let visual professionals know (something like "screen not for visual media production professionals") I would not have made the investment. I trust that since Apple did not make this announcement it was not Apple's intention to place us all in this predicament. Hopefully we can find a solution before Apple loses its hardened pro-base. Because I fear as soon as the pros stop trusting Apple, the allure of the brand will plummet for the rest of their customer base.

I like Apple's philosophy, brand and what they are doing to further personal computing in this crazy computer world. I expect Apple will not let itself fail in the eyes of its loyal customers.

-ian

[wildcard]

Here's a copy of the letter I am including with my Powerbook when I return it, both as a text file on the desktop and in paper form...

APPLE TECHNICIANS/ENGINEERS-PLEASE READ re: case 55055154!

The admin password for this Powerbook is apple123.

Please view the Photoshop file "pb15_problems.png" included on the desktop of this laptop, both with an external CRT not attached to this notebook, and on the laptop itself. You should be able to note the following:

1)CRT viewing: The image of the child on the right and the Apple background on the right are what a sizable portion of the owners of the new 15" DL Powerbooks are seeing on their screens when viewing any photographic image. This "line" effect is visible in Safari or IPhoto without any additional enhancement. These lines also create a strobing effect when scrolling
through text, causing eye strain. We would expect the image to correspond to the appearance of the child on the left (i.e. no lines)

2)Viewing the image on the laptop itself: The lines will be apparent on both children. If the position of the image on the screen is shifted vertically up or down a single pixel, the lines on the child on the right with disappear completely.

If Photoshop is not available for you to install for diagnostic reasons, below is a link to a website hosting the image for viewing in a web browser:

http://crankycat.com/pb15_problems.png

These lines, on my Powerbook, are also evident in the following places:

1) on the grey Apple icon on the white bootup splash screen
2) on the Apple Hardware test screen, as noted in my case number
3) on any blue and/or grey tinged desktop screens
4) any photographs viewed in Safari, IPhoto, Preview, or Quicktime

The lines are still evident on changing to any of the possible resolutions in System Preferences/Display, on using different color calibrations in System Preferences/Display, after applying all available updates to the 10.4.2 image installed on shipment of the Powerbook, after resetting NVRAM and the PMU of the Powerbook, and after trying all available brightness settings.

The lines are *NOT* evident on any LCD or CRT connected to the Powerbook's DVI port.

My Powerbook has been viewed by multiple people not aware of any outstanding line issues with this model, and TO A PERSON, they have all noticed the lines evident on my screen.

Multiple Powerbooks, all originating from the Shanghai plant (W8 serial numbers) within weeks 40-46, have been affected by this issue. I am aware of two cases where affected Powerbooks were sent back to Apple and then returned to their owners with the lines still in evidence on their screens.

Due to the above research, and after correspondence with other Powerbook users affected by this problem, I believe the issue lies in the LCD screen used in the affected laptops. As all the affected Powerbooks I am personally aware of were shipped from the Shanghai plant, it is unclear whether these screens are part of a defective batch shipped to that plant for assembly, or if this issue extends to other new 15" DL Powerbooks assembled in other plants as well.

Reference material and other items I have cited in this document, including some serial numbers affected by this issue, can be found at http://15inpbscreen.appleplace.com/.

Please contact me regarding the results of any diagnostic work performed on this Powerbook prior to sending it back. I am available from Mon-Fri 8:30-5 PM Eastern time at xxx-xxx-xxxx, and at other times at yyy-yyy-yyyy. My contact information should also be listed in my case history.

If the technicians assigned to this case determine that they are not able to view the lines, that these lines are normal or within specifications for this model, or that they found no issues with the Powerbook, please refer this case to Client Care before returning the laptop as I will wish to pursue returning the unit for a refund.

This will be the seventh Apple laptop I have owned, and the first with any serious hardware issues. I am confident that, despite information provided by the examples that Apple is not aware of any customer concerns regarding these display defects, Apple support will be able to use the information provided here to accurately diagnose this problem and provide a satisfactory solution for all the affected customers.

[pete]

Excellent letter Wildcard. I'll keep my finger crossed that something comes out of this. Perhaps it would be a good idea to send a copy to customer relations too?

I also wonder how this issue could have been completely invisible to the macworld reviewers...

[iBorg]

Until today I hadn't had a chance to get to the Apple Store at Mall of America to see the Powerbook screens for myself. Today I spent an hour on them - 3 of the 15" PB's and 3 of the 17" PB's, viewing iPhoto pics, Safari screens, and calibrating their screens' color profiles. None of them showed the type of lines I've read about, and seen screenshots of, here, or on other forums (Mac Rumors or Apple Discussion Boards). Could this be a certain production run having problems, or a certain supplier of screens? It's really maddening, because I'd like to buy one, but not if I have a screen that has the annoying horizontal lines!

Surprisingly, none of the 4 Apple Store employees that I spoke with had ever heard anything about this issue, so I pointed each of them toward this forum thread, and a couple of threads on Apple's Discussion Boards, to read. Is Apple instructing their employees to ignore this, or is this affecting such a small number that they truly haven't heard of it?

Today's shift at this store could have been ill-informed, of course. One of the sales guys assured me that the 15" screens have the same 46% increased brightness as the 17", and that the "faster ram" makes them faster than the previous generation PB without DDR2 ram.

Amazon's $200 rebate runs for awhile yet, so there's no rush to buy - I'm going to wait to see what shakes out on this issue.



iBorg

[iBorg]

Originally Posted by wildcard

If Photoshop is not available for you to install for diagnostic reasons, below is a link to a website hosting the image for viewing in a web browser:

http://crankycat.com/pb15_problems.png

Wildcard - are the horizontal lines in your 15" really like those on the right side of your image link? Because those are so obviously distorted, and, as in my post above, the screens I saw today at the Apple Store today didn't show any lines at all? The 15" screens didn't look much different than the 17" screens sitting beside them (except for the increased brightness of the 17" screens).

With all the posts about these lines on 15" PB's people have bought, I certainly have no doubt that it's a major problem for some ...... but I'm trying to get a feel for how wide-spread this problem is.



iBorg

[wildcard]

Originally Posted by iBorg

Wildcard - are the horizontal lines in your 15" really like those on the right side of your image link? Because those are so obviously distorted, and, as in my post above, the screens I saw today at the Apple Store today didn't show any lines at all? The 15" screens didn't look much different than the 17" screens sitting beside them (except for the increased brightness of the 17" screens).

With all the posts about these lines on 15" PB's people have bought, I certainly have no doubt that it's a major problem for some ...... but I'm trying to get a feel for how wide-spread this problem is.



iBorg

Keep in mind that the picture quality of my screen is terrible

The lines I have are on a par with the ones VisualForces posted a pic of. My situation is more of a gap-between-pixel is noticably lighter/darker as opposed to an actual row of pixels being off.

[pete]

When I looked at the Apple Store in Soho yesterday I saw the lines primarily on the blue aqua desktop and in the thumbnails in the preferences for choosing desktops where it was clearly noticeable. It was not really noticeable in the photos I looked at, especially not compared with the linked image here, or maybe I just couldn't them there.

[iBorg]

Originally Posted by pete

When I looked at the Apple Store in Soho yesterday I saw the lines primarily on the blue aqua desktop and in the thumbnails in the preferences for choosing desktops where it was clearly noticeable. It was not really noticeable in the photos I looked at, especially not compared with the linked image here, or maybe I just couldn't them there.

I tried both the 15"s and 17"s, using iPhoto pics, but also the standard desktop backgrounds that come with the PBooks, both the swirling colors, and solid colored backgrounds, as I'd read that the horizontal lines are worse in solid grays or blues. Try as I might (and I spent an hour doing so), I couldn't find any lines in either the 15" or 17".

Perhaps the problem PBooks were early units - I've read something about weeks 40-42, or something, being more problematic? Can anyone confirm this?



iBorg

[iBorg]

Originally Posted by wildcard

Keep in mind that the picture quality of my screen is terrible

The lines I have are on a par with the ones VisualForces posted a pic of. My situation is more of a gap-between-pixel is noticably lighter/darker as opposed to an actual row of pixels being off.

Sounds like your PBook should be replaced as a DOA unit.

This gives me more hope that the PBooks having such obvious lines are defective, and could be replaced/recalled, and that perhaps more recent units will be defect-free. Maybe just my wishful thinking .....



iBorg

[No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones]

I visited the local Apple store today, and the lines were quite visible to me.

[pete]

Originally Posted by No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones

I visited the local Apple store today, and the lines were quite visible to me.

What are we to make of all these varying accounts? Are some people just sensitive to the lines while others aren't? Or is this a question of a defect first batch that now have been replaced with newer ones without defect LCDs in some apple store locations?

I definitely did not see the lines the first time I looked at the Soho store. The second time I saw them clearly and I can't explain the discrepency. Once I saw them, it seemed like they were all over the place though.

[iBorg]

Originally Posted by No Time 4 Love Dr. Jones

I visited the local Apple store today, and the lines were quite visible to me.

I believe you - many others have said the same.

Makes me wonder if it's spotty - I'm a really harsh critic of quality, especially when it comes to LCD screens, and try as hard as I could, I could find no flaws in the 15"s or 17"s at the Apple Store at MOA today.



iBorg

[John123]

I simply cannot believe there has been 5 pages of disussion of such a tiny issue. Oy!

[GoCats]

Hello all. I just found this post after having just bought my Powerbook and noticing the same issue. Well, after reading the posts here I decided to see if I could figure out what the problem was, and I think I have.

If you look at the screen with a loop you'll notice that there is virtually no space between sets of RGB pixels horizontally, however, there is a noticeable space between sets virtically. Of course this space is very small, but because it's there it's causing the visual effects most of us are noticing... at least that's my theory.

There were no other luminance differences that I noticed through the loop.

[mrmister]

I don't see why you can't believe this--two pages of the thread are the two of us fighting back and forth, and one page is folks asking us to stop.

Thanks so much to wildcard and iumeda for their thoroughness--wildcard, please let us know anything you hear back from Apple.

[wildcard]

Well, the one variable that hasn't been confirmed for the alleged (this is the best term for it, no negative connotation intended)no-line Powerbooks was their serial numbers. So far, every affected Powerbook had W8 for the first two characters of the serial and 40-45 for the forth/fifth characters.

John:

I really wouldn't care if it were only blues and greys affected, but I can't even look at a website without seeing lines. People's skin looks like they're composed of layers of cold cuts, and anything that isn't a solid color looks like it's composed of Legos (TM). If your Powerbook isn't affected this badly, I can see why you think this is a minor issue. Mine is, and I'm not satisfied with this laptop. I've never owned a laptop with these kind of screen issues, PC OR Mac.

[pete]

If everybody who claims that they don't have lines could post pictures of their displays we would quickly know if it is a matter of personal sensitivity or genuine difference in displays. Please, if you can, post closeup pictures of your LCD and perhaps also a the first few digits of your serial number. It would be so helpful if we could at least determine if this is universal or if it is just a batch.

I think goCats explanation seems reasonable though, not that it makes anything better.

[GoCats]

Getting an picture of our displays that adequately shows the visual effect we are seeing is extremely difficult... though I have seen at least one image that did an excellent job.

I hope no one takes this personally, but I think that some people just have better eye sight and may be a bit more discerning than others. I am very certain that every new powerbook display suffers from this visual effect... it's kinda like how people can't tell the diff between a 128bit mp3 vs a 256bit mp3... for those who have descerning ears, there is a HUGE difference, for others, they can't tell the difference at all... but that doesn't mean the difference isn't there.

Anyway, I think the picture posted by VisualForces link shows what we're all seeing very well... I don't think that I could get a better picture than that.

Originally Posted by pete

If everybody who claims that they don't have lines could post pictures of their displays we would quickly know if it is a matter of personal sensitivity or genuine difference in displays. Please, if you can, post closeup pictures of your LCD and perhaps also a the first few digits of your serial number. It would be so helpful if we could at least determine if this is universal or if it is just a batch.

I think goCats explanation seems reasonable though, not that it makes anything better.

[rpd2005]

This site discusses some different lcd refresh methods.
http://www.techmind.org/lcd/
And here is an interesting quote:

Laptop LCD screens tend to be optimised for lower power, with some relaxation of image-quality criterion. As well as (often) lower brightness and less saturated colours, laptop screens usually use a "line inversion" scheme rather than the dot inversion now universal in desktop screens. I've recently added row-inversion patterns for laptop users [Aug 2005]. If you look closely at a line-inversion LCD, particularly if it is showing a fairly plain, mid-brightness colour, you may see a slight horizontal line interference pattern on alternate lines, which appears to drift up or down the screen. This is also not uncommon on colour mobile-phone displays.

[iomatic]

None taken.

It's just not that simple. I have excellent vision, and rely on my eyes for a living, as do other artists here. I didn't see them until I stuck my head 6–8 inches away from the screen.

You can't see the lines in gray, white, or other colors from a foot away on my screen, nor the light grays and whites from even a few inches away. No one can. Like everything, there are degrees of the issue. Saying every screen has them is one thing, but that it's bad on all of them is a generalization.

Serial W8543…

Originally Posted by GoCats

…I hope no one takes this personally, but I think that some people just have better eye sight and may be a bit more discerning than others. I am very certain that every new powerbook display suffers from this visual effect...

[wildcard]

Ok, now this is just @#$@#$@#$ wierd...

Prepping my Powerbook for return tomorrow, I wiped the hard drive and put a fresh copy of OS 10.4.2 (off the shipping CD), then applied all available software updates. I then uploaded all the crankycat pics and other evidence.

Checking the crankycat pics, the kid and Apple background on the right have a completely different line effect now. The darker rows now appear every TWO pixels rather than between every pixel as they were previously. As my digicam sucks, I'll describe the new effect in ASCII....

================= (row of pixel with 'strong' darker borders)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (row of pixel with weak lighter borders)
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (row of pixel with weak lighter borders)
================= (row of pixel with 'strong' darker borders)

No amount of pixel shifting makes these new lines go away. The left hand images still have the weak lighter borders, as they did before.

I also don't have the banding issues on photographs or the Apple backgrounds to the extent that I did have it.

So, doing a complete OS reinstall may be a last-ditch fix before packing it up for returning to Apple....

[bwatson009]

Originally Posted by iBorg

Until today I hadn't had a chance to get to the Apple Store at Mall of America to see the Powerbook screens for myself. Today I spent an hour on them - 3 of the 15" PB's and 3 of the 17" PB's, viewing iPhoto pics, Safari screens, and calibrating their screens' color profiles. None of them showed the type of lines I've read about, and seen screenshots of, here, or on other forums (Mac Rumors or Apple Discussion Boards). Could this be a certain production run having problems, or a certain supplier of screens? It's really maddening, because I'd like to buy one, but not if I have a screen that has the annoying horizontal lines!

Surprisingly, none of the 4 Apple Store employees that I spoke with had ever heard anything about this issue, so I pointed each of them toward this forum thread, and a couple of threads on Apple's Discussion Boards, to read. Is Apple instructing their employees to ignore this, or is this affecting such a small number that they truly haven't heard of it?

Today's shift at this store could have been ill-informed, of course. One of the sales guys assured me that the 15" screens have the same 46% increased brightness as the 17", and that the "faster ram" makes them faster than the previous generation PB without DDR2 ram.

Amazon's $200 rebate runs for awhile yet, so there's no rush to buy - I'm going to wait to see what shakes out on this issue.



iBorg

Two things:

Apple store employees never publicly acknowledge ANY issue with hardware. It seems the instruction is to say: "oh really, i haven't heard that".

Second: DDR2 is clocked at the same speed as the previous generation. It is no faster at all than the last line of powerbooks. They switched to DDR2 to save battery life. the screen is brighter, not sure about 46% though...

b

[miacomet]

I was going to buy a 15" until I heard about this issue. So I went to the apple store locally and I could really see the lines on the screen, no question. No way I'm paying $2000 for a PB with lines going through the screens.

[azbigfella]

Originally Posted by bwatson009

Apple store employees never publicly acknowledge ANY issue with hardware. It seems the instruction is to say: "oh really, i haven't heard that".

Everyone knows that Apple Store employees are only hired if they agree to be a part of Apple conspiracies and cover-ups...

Actually, I personally know some of the ones that have denied knowledge of such issues, and i actually believe them when they say they haven't heard anything.
AZB

[miacomet]

Originally Posted by bwatson009

Apple store employees never publicly acknowledge ANY issue with hardware. It seems the instruction is to say: "oh really, i haven't heard that".

In my experience, to most Apple store employees it's just a job. They are not mac faithful. They don't know or care to know anything about apple computers other than what they're required to know to keep their job. And they're not really interested in finding out about these hardware issues.

[azbigfella]

Originally Posted by miacomet

In my experience, to most Apple store employees it's just a job. They are not mac faithful. They don't know or care to know anything about apple computers other than what they're required to know to keep their job. And they're not really interested in finding out about these hardware issues.

It's too bad that you've run into that. My experience is entirely contrary to that, and Apple Store employees are one of the reasons I like going to Apple Stores. But I've only frequented the Apple Stores in SE PA, NJ, and DE, and one visit to a store in Phoenix, AZ. I've found almost all them them to be "mac faithful" and excited about mac products. I've had great conversations with some of them around macs, old and new, good and bad, problems and fixes. Granted, they have varying levels of expertise and just because they work at the Apple Store doesn't make them a make mac guru, but that's just common sense.
AZB

[iBorg]

Originally Posted by bwatson009

Two things:

Apple store employees never publicly acknowledge ANY issue with hardware. It seems the instruction is to say: "oh really, i haven't heard that".

Second: DDR2 is clocked at the same speed as the previous generation. It is no faster at all than the last line of powerbooks. They switched to DDR2 to save battery life. the screen is brighter, not sure about 46% though...

b

Probably right about the Apple Store employees, although I've heard them admit to the "white spot problem" on earlier G4's!

That was my point exactly, concerning the DDR2 ram - it's clocked down to work on the PBooks, so it does not run faster, contrary to the Apple Store salesman - it only uses less energy (I was making a point about many salepeople's lack of technical knowledge about the products they sell!)

Concerning the screen, it's only the 17" screen that is "46% brighter" (per Apple) - the 15" screen's brightness is unchanged (again, contrary to the salesman's claim). Apple is careful to never mention anything on their website about a "brighter screen" in the 15", only the 17". (higher resolution in both, but "brighter" in the 17" only)

My point was to be an informed consumer, and don't rely on the hype given by salespeople, whether Apple, GM, or anyone else. They're not intentionally dishonest, they often just recite the sales pitches they're given!



iBorg

[John123]

Originally Posted by iBorg

Concerning the screen, it's only the 17" screen that is "46% brighter" (per Apple) - the 15" screen's brightness is unchanged (again, contrary to the salesman's claim). Apple is careful to never mention anything on their website about a "brighter screen" in the 15", only the 17". (higher resolution in both, but "brighter" in the 17" only)

Actually, whether true or not, Macworld reports that the 15" screen is indeed brighter than the previous version -- by 13-15%. Whether this is something they measured, or a non-official stat they obtained from Apple, who knows:

http://www.macworld.com/2005/11/revi...4rev/index.php

[GoCats]

I totally agree that the lines are not noteable in certain situations, and you do have to be pretty close to see them... I don't think I said that it was particularly bad, just that they ARE there on every screen.

BTW, I've noticed that I see the issue a lot more when I'm looking at scaled images for some reason. At 100% the picture looks okay, but scaled it looks pretty bad.

Originally Posted by iomatic

None taken.

It's just not that simple. I have excellent vision, and rely on my eyes for a living, as do other artists here. I didn't see them until I stuck my head 6–8 inches away from the screen.

You can't see the lines in gray, white, or other colors from a foot away on my screen, nor the light grays and whites from even a few inches away. No one can. Like everything, there are degrees of the issue. Saying every screen has them is one thing, but that it's bad on all of them is a generalization.

Serial W8543…

[zooey74]

Originally Posted by miacomet

I was going to buy a 15" until I heard about this issue. So I went to the apple store locally and I could really see the lines on the screen, no question. No way I'm paying $2000 for a PB with lines going through the screens.

I'm in the exact same boat. I was going back and forth on the purchase, then they came out with the upgrades so I was sold, now I don't know. The whole thing just stinks. I saw the lines on both display models at the Apple Store today, one Apple Store guy told me that they were a "battery saving feature" which is just nonsense. When I can obviously see lines and they either don't see them or give me a nonsensical response I feel like I'm being duped. The whole thing really frustrates me.

[ciparis]

Originally Posted by John123

I simply cannot believe there has been 5 pages of disussion of such a tiny issue. Oy!

Here's a tip: stop clicking the link if it bothers you.

Hey doc...

[iBorg]

Originally Posted by ciparis

Here's a tip: stop clicking the link if it bothers you.

Hey doc...

iBorg

[John123]

Originally Posted by iBorg

iBorg

Are you ticked off that you were possibly wrong on the brightness issue and I pointed to an article that contradicted you?

[iBorg]

Originally Posted by John123

Are you ticked off that you were possibly wrong on the brightness issue and I pointed to an article that contradicted you?

LOL - you really are full of yourself, aren't you?

No, I'm amused by the simplicity of ciparis' suggestion, for relieving you of your frustration with this thread! (Especially since over the past 5 days, you've had 16 posts, all of them in this thread that you so detest! LOL)



iBorg

[Masamune]

Hmmm....it's a damn good job I read this thread, I was just about to order a 15" PowerBook. Should I get a refurb one instead? I'm not a major graphics worker but I am rather picky about graphics quality and if there is a problem, I'm likely to notice it.

[Zeno C]

Oh My God!!!!!!
neither John Gruber, nor Jon Hicks are having the lines issue!!!!!!! Now, I wouldn't believe them...if they were "ordinary" people. But Gruber is one of the most pedant blogger I know (he cares about details), Hicks is a famous designer (creator of the Firefox logo), if they say they don't see the lines, I think we are safe to say THEIR POWERBOOK DON'T HAVE THE HORIZONAL LINES ISSUE.

[Masamune]

Ok, breathe in, breathe out, breathe in, breathe out....

Ok - so it only seems to be a certain batch that's affected and one of the early ones at that. Besides, I know people in the Apple store near me, I can always harangue them if needed.

[pete]

I just ordered one from Amazon - I'll try not to cancel my order in the next few hours (which means I have to avoid this forum until it ships)!

In any case, I will report back once it arrives tomorrow.

[dissapointed]

Originally Posted by John123

I simply cannot believe there has been 5 pages of disussion of such a tiny issue. Oy!

You are a massive wanker.

[lars-man]

Hi *,

I've been at a local Apple dealer here in Germany and had a look at the latest PowerBook models shown there (the one with HD displays). The 15" display looked quite good. I opened GraphicConverter and created some full size images with different colors like grey, orange, light-blue etc. I could hardly see any display lines, although they were there. But it was very, very difficult to see them. One could see them best on the orange-colored image. But I couldn't detect them while watching the grey image. I couldn't see them either while watching the "Aqua Blue" desktop wallpaper. The serial number of this PowerBook 15" started with W8540 (one of the first models?). As far as I remember, most PowerBook owners who complain about the display lines, have serial numbers that begin with "8W542" or "8W543". Or did I do something wrong while scanning for the display lines? I had to move very close to the display to see them.

The 17" PowerBook display looked horrible. The display's illimunation was very unbalanced. Just disappointing.

Regards, Lars

[goodfello]

I have been following the forums detailing the horror line issue both here and at Apple since early on.

On Nov 3rd, I purchased a 15' PB DL serial W8542. Prior to the purchase I had contacted Apple Care in California and in India. My question was: "...are these lines inherent in the design of the new PBs or are they an anomoly? Hence, if I purchase a PB and it has these lines, will it be considered by Apple a problem or a characteristic?"

Well, it was impossible to get any straight answers. The people at Apple Care were not definitive. Eventually, one of the people I spoke with explained to me that: "If this was an issue with some PBs, I can assure you that it will not be with the one you buy as of now."

So I had a laugh, rolled the dice. Orderd from Apple Store online (having already estqablished a ticket with Apple Care), had a friend bring it to me (overseas) where I am now - and - YES LINES.

Easy to distinguish, perhaps because I work with images, perhaps because I knew very well what I was looking for. Anyway, Lines. And they are not pretty, anybody who thinks that they can live with them is fooling themselves.

So I called Apple Care, had them pull up my ticket and explained that the PB they shipped me was "out of spec". Long story short: they said to go to local (overseas) autherized Apple Service Tech and have them diagnose the problem, then bring the machine back to the States and report it DOA. Today I visited my local Apple service tech, he saw the lines immediately and recognized it as a problem, all though he explained that it is the first he has heard about it, and because Apple had not told him that it was a 'proble', he could not tell me it was a problem. In order for him to officially establish the PB as DOA, he would have to take it away for ten days, run tests, etc.

Incidentally, there was a fellow next to me with an identical model PB 1.67 DL etc. His problem was a batterey that did not last longer than 1 hour. Funny I said, I used to have a girlfriend with the same problem. He did not laugh, his screen, however, did not 'display' the lines. Ah Ha.

A little piece of the pie: Aparently these are not higher definition screens, they are higher definision computers. That is the screen is the same hardware than on previous AL PB, but the supported resolution is higher. Is that true? If it is and it is also true, as I have clearly seen, that not all new PB have the lines. Where are they coming from?

Look, (bad choice of word) ok don't look: the glowi keyboard and the two finger scroll job is nice, the machine kicks a**, I just can't bring myself to look at it.

[gentryfunk]

OK...after reading a previous thread I have a thought. My brand new PB came with a bad battery...would not take a charge at all. Apple sent a replacement. PB works fine and I cannot find any lines. Hmmm

[gentryfunk]

Here is my PB screen...not the best quality and as close as I can get. Anybody see lines?

TGF

screen shot.jpg

[rpd2005]

It would be interesting if someone with the line problem tried the following LCD test images:
http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html#inversion

[azbigfella]

Originally Posted by rpd2005

It would be interesting if someone with the line problem tried the following LCD test images:
http://www.techmind.org/lcd/index.html#inversion

I have one of the new 15" PBooks, but I don't think I have "the problem"...

I tried all the patterns, and the only flicker I found was on the "Line-Paired Pixel Dot-Inversion Test" (but very slight) and the "Line-Paired Dot-Inversion Test (green)" (a little more noticible). All other test patterns were clear and flicker-free.

So, can you tell us what that might mean? Thanks,
AZB

[dave]

Originally Posted by Zeno C

Oh My God!!!!!!
neither John Gruber, nor Jon Hicks are having the lines issue!!!!!!! Now, I wouldn't believe them...if they were "ordinary" people. But Gruber is one of the most pedant blogger I know (he cares about details), Hicks is a famous designer (creator of the Firefox logo), if they say they don't see the lines, I think we are safe to say THEIR POWERBOOK DON'T HAVE THE HORIZONAL LINES ISSUE.

Nope. Jon Hicks has now declared he does have the issue.

Also, does anyone have a color cast ( on the left side of the screen), when using the D50 calibration?

And doesn't anyone get killer headaches?

[dave]

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