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JustinHorne · Jun 26, 2007, 06:46 PM

Certainly a shock to me, with my 120 gb macbook....
Here's a screenshot:

Crazy huh? Running 10.4.10, any thoughts?

voodoo · Jun 26, 2007, 10:41 PM

"Try emptying the trash"

How Microsoftian of you Apple!

V

Chuckit · Jun 26, 2007, 10:44 PM

When the amount is that big, it should replace the bit about emptying the trash with "HOLY ****!!!"

Oh, and I don't have much experience with FileVault, so I can't really help, sorry. I have heard that it uses disk space very strangely. I'd recommend storing sensitive files on an encrypted disk image (you can create these with Disk Utility) — it's the same thing FileVault does, only you have more control over it.

voodoo · Jun 26, 2007, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

When the amount is that big, it should replace the bit about emptying the trash with "HOLY ****!!!"

Hehe

Indeed!

V

frdmfghtr · Jun 26, 2007, 11:38 PM

First, I wouldn't use FileVault; it saves yor home directory as one encrypted volume, and if any part of it get corrupted, you lost everything in the home directory.

Second, to get around this problem, move as much as you can out of the home directory to some other temporary folder outside the home directory structure. FileVault then only has to encrypt a small amount of data initially. Once FileVault is set up, move everything back into it's original location in the home directory.

Lastly, seriously reconsider your choice. Even Apple support recommends against using FileVault. If you want to keep some of your data encrypted, create an encrypted volume using Disk Utility. You end up with a .dmg file that requires a password to mount, is encrypted, and can be easily backed up like any other file.

JustinHorne · Jun 27, 2007, 03:25 AM

Well, I guess I just won't use FV then...

Either way, it sure is a screwy thing, something I've never seen before!

And yes, the whole, "go empty your trash" is rather Microsoft of them...

MindFad · Jun 27, 2007, 10:08 AM

If you're packing 4TB in your trash, it's time to empty.

Big Mac · Jun 27, 2007, 10:28 AM

Yeah, do not use it. Please. Use encrypted disk images for the files you want to encrypt, but there's no reason to use FileVault. It's just asking for trouble.

Person Man · Jun 27, 2007, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by frdmfghtr

\Even Apple support recommends against using FileVault.

I call bull on this one. Why would Apple even offer FileVault if they recommend against using it?

jtrwallace · Jun 27, 2007, 07:55 PM

This is the thing. I used FileVault for a year and had no problems with it. I understood that by using it, you have to periodically optimize FileVault so as to clear up space on your hard drive. I was ok with that because I wanted my computer to be very secure, considering it was an included feature of OS X. The thing is, FileVault needs as much free space as your current home directory fills up in order to initialize and to remove. When I first used it, I had no problems as I had that much free space on my internal PowerBook Drive. But when I decided I'd rather have to not deal with optimizing and losing space periodically then regaining it, I turned FileVault off and it gave me that same exact error. All I had to do was move my videos and some programs to my external hard drive, let it turn itself off without that error, and then put them back in my home directory.
Now, about Apple recommending not using it. I can second that. I don't mean to say that Apple or Steve Jobs recommends against using it, but I do mean to say that Support representatives would rather you not use it because it can cause unnecessary problems. I took my PowerBook FileVault enabled to an Apple Store to have the optical drive replaced and when I got it back the next day the "genius" asked me if I was a government official. I was confused and said "And if I was?????" He replied that FileVault is really unnecessary and causes more problems than its worth UNLESS I'm hiding some Nuclear missile launch codes that are very very top secret. I told him that I would do whatever the hell I want with my computer and that Apple would not have included this function unless it could be useful to normal users.
My recommendation: Only use it if you have sensitive documents AND you leave your computer sitting places where it could be stolen easily.

TETENAL · Jun 27, 2007, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Yeah, do not use it. Please. Use encrypted disk images for the files you want to encrypt, but there's no reason to use FileVault. It's just asking for trouble.

That's nonsense. There are good reasons to encrypt all of your data on a portable device that has some risk of being stolen. My address book alone is reason enough to have encryption on. A lot of other data is sensitive, even if you might not think about it. Of course that there are good reasons to encrypt your home folder is no excuse for Apple to have such a crappy implementation.FileVault is lacking in a lot of areas. It's not possible to exclude stuff from encryption. Music library and public (!) folder come to mind here. It's prone to corruption and it has bugs when being turned on and off (see original post). Again, all that doesn't mean you should refrain from protecting your data. However, what you should do is have a complete and up to date (daily), unencrypted backup of your data (which obviously stays at home). Data loss can strike you anyway, whether you have FileVault on or not, so you need a complete and up to date backup regardless. If you take care of that, FileVault is a good choice to have on for many users of a portable computer.

Cadaver · Jun 28, 2007, 11:56 PM

I travel with my laptop, so I need to use encryption. While I do use strong passwords and Open Firmware lock on my MacBook Pro, it would be trivial to disassemble the machine, pull the HD and view the contents without impediment. I have sensitive HIPAA-protected material on my laptop, not to mention access codes to the VPN at work, and of course the web cookie with my MacNN password! While creating an encrypted disk image for the occasional item works alright, I simply have too much to keep on a separate (virtual) disk volume.

I use FileVault and encrypted virtual memory. The Open Firmware lock helps prevent booting the machine off CD or into target disk mode. And I do not put any data in the Public folder and do not have root user enabled. I'm a bit paranoid about security, but at least I know that if my machine should be stolen, the data on the machine will remain inaccessible to anyone but me (and the NSA).

Personally, I'd like it if the whole drive could be encrypted - applications, preferences, library folder and all.

The PC laptop I have on order has a TPM chip which will work with Vista Ultimate's BitLocker disk encryption. Too bad the MacBook Pro doesn't have a TPM in it.

While a data corruption can destroy your entire FileVault, regular backups will minimize any data loss. You do make frequent, routine backups, right...!? And yes, the backups of the contents of my FileVaulted machine are also encrypted.

cybergoober · Jun 29, 2007, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

…but at least I know that if my machine should be stolen, the data on the machine will remain inaccessible to anyone but me (and the NSA).

Don't know how true this is, but we had a meeting at my last job with our Apple reps. They were talking about how they had spent some time working with the NSA. Apparently the NSA had a cluster of machines that could crack the strongest Windows passwords in about 16 seconds. They then went on to say that the NSA couldn't crack FileVault. Like I said this is purely anecdotal and I don't know how accurate it is, but that is what Apple's corporate reps are telling customers.

rjt1000 · Jun 29, 2007, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

Personally, I'd like it if the whole drive could be encrypted - applications, preferences, library folder and all.

The PC laptop I have on order has a TPM chip which will work with Vista Ultimate's BitLocker disk encryption. Too bad the MacBook Pro doesn't have a TPM in it.

FYI: Seagate is offering a laptop hard drive with built in hardware based encryption. So far, only one PC manufacturer is using it. Would need to be implemented by Apple, though. Not something you can just drop in:

Seagate Technology - Momentus� 5400 FDE.2 Hard Drives
Seagate Delivers Industry's Strongest Security for ASI Laptop Computers

frdmfghtr · Jul 2, 2007, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by Person Man

I call bull on this one. Why would Apple even offer FileVault if they recommend against using it?

Beats me...but I recall seeing in some forum (maybe here somewhere) that somebody was told by an Apple support rep that he didn't recommend using it, as it could create more problems than it is worth.

So what I heard was second- or maybe third-hand, but that's why I said it. Too bad that FileVault doesn't do the on-the-fly encrypting on a file-by-file basis so if something does get toasted, the damage is limited to an individual file.