[goMac]

Engadget is reporting Warner was paid half a billion dollars to go Bluray.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Engadget is reporting Warner was paid half a billion dollars to go Bluray.

Engadget is unreliable.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

From Warner backs Blu-ray exclusively - 1/4/2008 - Video Business

Warner will be joining other BD-exclusive suppliers Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Walt Disney Home Entertainment, 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment and Lionsgate. Time Warner divisions New Line Home Entertainment and HBO Video are also included in the move to Blu-ray.

I'll take Lord of the Rings Extended Editions and Rome on Blu-ray please.

I'd expect them to eventually go Blu-ray, but your link is wrong.

Warner: New Line, HBO Not Covered By Blu-ray Announcement

That's according to Warner Home Entertainment President Kevin Tsujihara, who said that the studio's announcement that it would drop HD DVD support does not extend to titles released by New Line, HBO or the BBC (which Warner distributes here in the US).

"They'll be making whatever decision they're going to make," said Tsujihara. "I assume they'll let people know very quickly, but they are not covered by this initial announcement."

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Engadget is unreliable.

Oh my yes.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Engadget is reporting Warner was paid half a billion dollars to go Bluray.

Great but 6 hours ago warner confirmed they got zero payoff.

[CaseCom]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Engadget is unreliable.



I'd expect them to eventually go Blu-ray, but your link is wrong.

Warner: New Line, HBO Not Covered By Blu-ray Announcement

That's according to Warner Home Entertainment President Kevin Tsujihara, who said that the studio's announcement that it would drop HD DVD support does not extend to titles released by New Line, HBO or the BBC (which Warner distributes here in the US).

"They'll be making whatever decision they're going to make," said Tsujihara. "I assume they'll let people know very quickly, but they are not covered by this initial announcement."

Variety reports that New Line is also going Blu:

Warner Bros. backs Blu-ray - Entertainment News, Home Ent News, Media - Variety

My jaw dropped when I saw the Warner news today. Part of me wants to go out tomorrow and buy the Panasonic BD30, but I'll wait to see what's announced at CES; I'd like a good midrange Profile 1.1 player with solid upconversion (Reon, ideally). I just use my TV speakers so I don't care about the advanced audio decoding.

But my TV is only 32 inches (Sony Bravia KDL-V32XBR2) with 1366x768 resolution. I'm not sure how much of a difference Blu-ray would make at that size, but I would like to upgrade a few of my favorites like Lawrence of Arabia and LOTR (when they come out on Blu-ray). But most my collection I'll probably just keep my existing DVDs.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Profile 1.0. No thanks.



Well, I'm not going to be buying a PS3. I want IR. Plus it's about twice as much as I want to pay.

Like I said, $199 is the sweet spot for me.

PS3 now has Profile 1.1, Divx and WMV playback. What's wrong with the PS3? The players are eventually going to go down to that price but if you think that is going to happen right now, you are dreaming. Toshiba was product dumping. There is no way they could have been earning a profit while selling at 199 retail and including 5 free movies. You will have a bit of a wait but you might want to consider that Blu-ray titles have generally been cheaper (even without BOGO sales) so you would make up the 100 dollar diffference from your unrealistic "sweet spot" and the lowest blu-ray players coming out of CES after purchasing a few titles.

Blu-ray CE's are in the business to make some profit so you really should not expect them to match Toshiba's loss leader pricing. Toshiba intended on locking up the market and making back the money on disc royalties.

I've tried 1.1 features on my PS3 and the HD DVD equivalent and you are not missing anything with a 1.0 profile player. The titles will playback just fine and the Pip commentary is just a gimmick losses it's novelty really fast. Do you really want to see some fat cats sitting in a studio talking about the film? Do you even enjoy regular audio commentary for the main feature? I prefer hearing the actual movie to listening to talking heads even on DVD but that's just me.

I think those "Profile 1.1" or "Profile 2.0" or nothing excuses are just that, it is an attempt to save face. You are an HD DVD supporter and you are trying to make excuses for not buying a blu-ray player. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by CaseCom 

Variety reports that New Line is also going Blu:

Warner Bros. backs Blu-ray - Entertainment News, Home Ent News, Media - Variety

I was going to pull up the same article, but you beat me to it. Yes, per Variety:

Warner sister company New Line confirmed it will shift allegiance to Blu-ray only as well.

The speculation is that New Line and HBO Films will issue separate announcements to give greater impact to their shift to Blu.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Great but 6 hours ago warner confirmed they got zero payoff.

Really? I'd like to see this quote from Warner where they say they weren't paid off.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Really? I'd like to see this quote from Warner where they say they weren't paid off.

"Warner Home Entertainment President Kevin Tsujihara says the studio took no pay-offs to exclusively back Blu-ray.
In a post-announcement conference call, Tsujihara flatly denied rumors that studio had accepted anywhere from 250M to $500M in exchange for dropping its HD DVD format support."

Warner: No Payoff for Move to Blu-ray | High-Def Digest

[Eug]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

PS3 now has Profile 1.1, Divx and WMV playback. What's wrong with the PS3?

It's a console. I don't want another console. And it has no IR. And it's twice as much as I want to spend on another player.

Blu-ray CE's are in the business to make some profit so you really should not expect them to match Toshiba's loss leader pricing.

Huh?

I swear, I've just never understood that argument. "You must spend more money for crappier hardware. You see, the CE companies have to make money!" I'm don't care what the CEs want. I care what I want.

I've tried 1.1 features on my PS3 and the HD DVD equivalent and you are not missing anything with a 1.0 profile player. The titles will playback just fine and the Pip commentary is just a gimmick losses it's novelty really fast. Do you really want to see some fat cats sitting in a studio talking about the film?

I happen to enjoy PiP very much, when it's done right. I'm not about to invest in an obsolete BD 1.0 player om 2008, especially at those terrible prices.

I think those "Profile 1.1" or "Profile 2.0" or nothing excuses are just that, it is an attempt to save face. You are an HD DVD supporter and you are trying to make excuses for not buying a blu-ray player. Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Yeah, whatever. If you've read this thread, you'll see that I've said the same thing several times. $200ish for a good BD 1.1 player, and I'd go neutral. That was true before the Warner announcement, and that's still true now. I just hope that this announcement doesn't give the CE companies less incentive to drop prices quickly.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I predict that within 3 months major resellers already start pulling HD-DVD off the shelves.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

"Warner Home Entertainment President Kevin Tsujihara says the studio took no pay-offs to exclusively back Blu-ray.
In a post-announcement conference call, Tsujihara flatly denied rumors that studio had accepted anywhere from 250M to $500M in exchange for dropping its HD DVD format support."

Warner: No Payoff for Move to Blu-ray | High-Def Digest

If you look at the quote, Warner says nothing about not accepting a payment, and it's been noted by other blogs.

One theory, that sounds extremely plausible, is that Warner was only willing to go HD-DVD if Fox would go with them, bringing about an end to the format war in the other direction:

Warner Swayed By $500 Million From The BDA : Format War Central

According to the rumor Fox was paid off earlier this week to stay Bluray, and Warner took the cash that was offered because you'd have to be pretty dumb to turn down free cash for a format you are switching to.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by goMac 

If you look at the quote, Warner says nothing about not accepting a payment, and it's been noted by other blogs.

One theory, that sounds extremely plausible, is that Warner was only willing to go HD-DVD if Fox would go with them, bringing about an end to the format war in the other direction:

Warner Swayed By $500 Million From The BDA : Format War Central

According to the rumor Fox was paid off earlier this week to stay Bluray, and Warner took the cash that was offered because you'd have to be pretty dumb to turn down free cash for a format you are switching to.

I wouldn't be surprised if substantial incentives were exchanged, but I'm not quite sure there was a cash payment as such. Detailed facts quickly emerged as to Toshiba/Microsoft's $150M payment to and deal with Paramount and Dreamworks following their exclusivity announcement. I'm not seeing the same here other than hearsay from some vague "trusted source" who was "close to the negotiations."*

* I'm sorry, but any disgruntled HD DVD fanboy could come up with secret information from a "trusted source" who was close to the negotiations. I'd like to see some more credible proof there was a payment made.

For Warner Home Entertainment's president to come out publicly and deny that no payments were received for Warner's Blu-ray exclusivity should be pretty conclusive otherwise it's tantamount to misrepresentation. Furthermore, if such a deal were made, it will eventually show up on Time Warner's financials, which as a publicly traded company is open to inspection. Tsujihara has no incentive to deny what might come back to bite him in the rear later on. Again, I'm not saying some other form of deal was not agreed upon, but I'll take him at his word that Warner did not receive a cash pay off in exchange for exclusivity.

And while the High Def Digest article doesn't offer up a quote where Tsujihara denies accepting a payment, I think the article merely sums up a longer conference call with the man where this issue was covered and ultimately denied. The report states that:

In a post-announcement conference call, Tsujihara flatly denied rumors that studio had accepted anywhere from 250M to $500M in exchange for dropping its HD DVD format support.

And even in the Engadget article on the same conference call, they report that

when asked about any "compensation" Kevin Tsujihara, president, Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group said that it "was not a bidding war" and that it really came down to Q4 sales, specifically in the International markets -- then he wanted to know if we had any idea where they could collect the $500 Million. Ultimately, Warner wanted to try and give consumers a reason to get off the fence.

We're not getting the whole transcript of the conference call here, but from the context of all these reports my guess is Tsujihara does deny Warner taking a cash payment.

[PaperNotes]

It was exactly one month that I was attacked by HD-DVD fanboys for mentioning that Warner was waiting for holiday sales figures before announcing Blu-ray exclusivity.

It's really time for goMac to swallow his self-loving pride and shut up. For months and months he has been gloating about how Warner is going to become HD-DVD exclusive. Just search "goMac" and "warner" and half a laugh. Now Warner's announcement has slapped the likes of him in the face and they have to jump up and down and shout about Warner taking bribes. These HD-DVD fanboys have played every dirty trick in the book from lying about how expensive and technically retarded Blu-ray is and hacking the Blu-ray forum's website. Nothing they did slowed down Blu-ray disc sales.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by goMac 

According to the RUMOR that came flying out of my ass Fox was paid off earlier this week to stay Bluray, and Warner took the cash

Oh shut up. They didn't need payment. They looked at the sales and it was always getting better for Blu-ray. Please go back to your Nintendo and never buy a Mac with Blu-ray in it if you hate it so much.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

I wouldn't be surprised if substantial incentives were exchanged, but I'm not quite sure there was a cash payment as such. Detailed facts quickly emerged as to Toshiba/Microsoft's $150M payment to and deal with Paramount and Dreamworks following their exclusivity announcement. I'm not seeing the same here other than hearsay from some vague "trusted source" who was "close to the negotiations."*

* I'm sorry, but any disgruntled HD DVD fanboy could come up with secret information from a "trusted source" who was close to the negotiations. I'd like to see some more credible proof there was a payment made.

That is exactly the same kind of "detailed facts" that came to light when Paramount went neutral. It was a "trusted source" even though every company involved denied making any kind of payments.

[PaperNotes]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

That is exactly the same kind of "detailed facts" that came to light when Paramount went neutral. It was a "trusted source" even though every company involved denied making any kind of payments.

Quite wrong. Paramount and Dreamworks admitted cash incentives were given. Warner has officially denied they recieved any cash incentive. Enough dirty games from the HD-DVD camp please.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Quite wrong. Paramount and Dreamworks admitted cash incentives were given.

They denied cash incentives. They said promotional consideration, whatever that means.

I consider them similar enough, but the PR guys don't apparently.

[Eug]

Interesting. Take it FWIW, but the guy who has been giving us all the release numbers early claims that Toshiba was wooing TWO big studios, including a Blu-ray exclusive one. Warner would have gone HD DVD if HD DVD could get them both to go HD DVD, but would go Blu-ray if Toshiba couldn't convince anyone else big to come over. That in itself is not hugely surprising, but what surprised me was the claimed other studio was Fox. (I had been thinking they'd talk to Disney first. Maybe they did, who knows.) Fox was considering the move, but ultimately decided not to, especially since they got incentives from the BDA, as did Warner.

Now, obviously this guy wasn't in on the negotiations, but this is what his contacts (which have proven reliable on other stuff) have told him.

In the meantime, I just hope this doesn't mean hardware and software prices stagnate. I suspect we'll see a slowing of BD price drops, and won't see a Profile 1.1 BD player at $199 until fall or later, and I also suspect we'll see less Blu-ray BOGOs in the coming months. I dunno about HD DVD pricing though. Perhaps they'll drop prices further, and if so, I'll buy more titles, but I'm definitely not paying over $20 for any non-box set. In fact, as it is, my Q4 2007 purchases averaged out to less than $20 each.

I also wonder what's gonna happen with rentals. I actually usually rent, but my Blockbuster is terrible for hi-def rentals, and charges over $6 each! Ripoff.

[Oversoul]

What amuses me is the continued smugness and occasional desperation of the HD DVD group and their fans. Again, I'm not denying pledges of support or incentives weren't made; reduced pressing costs and licensing and incentives of that sort have always been quite the norm. But the HD DVD camp are the ones who opened up the Pandora's box of making large lump sum cash "promotional" payments to Hollywood studios (Paramount and Dreamworks) to win exclusivity and now they can't fathom why Warner or any other studio would go or stay Blu unless there was the same kind of payment being made, and if there was to cry foul. Let's call it for what it is, a fat check to buy exclusivity.

HD DVD supporters need to seriously get over themselves. We get that you're mad that you invested into a losing format, but early adopters take the risk of that anyway, especially when it was as clear as it was from the start that there were going to be two very strong competing high def formats. And even as late as last year, pick a date, PS3s each with Blu-ray drives were selling by the millions (and even if attachment rate was lower than expected, that's still a whole lot of PS3s being sold as Blu-ray players), Blu-ray titles were beating HD DVD sales week after week by upwards of 2:1 margins, overseas sales favored Blu-ray 3:1 (Europe) and 9:1 (Japan), studio support was even then in favor of Blu-ray (until HD DVD's bribe of Paramount/Dreamworks), you name it. And as late as December, Pali Research (which broke news of the Paramount defection), Variety, and the New York Times all reported that Warner was set to go Blu. Did HD DVD supporters not see that HD DVD was on the losing end? And did they really think HD DVD could win? -- not draw a stalemate for another year or two, but actually win. (To do so, they had to bribe Paramount/Dreamworks to go red, and even then they would have had to sway Warner to go red as well as another Blu studio to defect.)

And from a technical standpoint, how can HD DVD fans or any movie lover deny that Blu-ray's technology is beyond HD DVD's stopgap technology. Blu-ray discs offer more capacity (25/50GB v. 15/30GB), short of 51ROM (which still has not been confirmed to be compatible with current HD DVD players nor confirmed to be used in any upcoming title). Higher capacity means more room to encode movies with higher bit rates and lossless audio. And from an end user standpoint, I'm glad Warner's pending exclusivity will mean that they won't release future titles dumbed down to fit HD DVD's limitations. Sure, HD DVD supporters claim PiP and web interactivity but does this really matter to so many people? And if it does, the Blu-ray camp has narrowed the gap in that regard too with Profile 1.1 now the requisite standard for new players and PS3s upgradeable to 1.1. And on price point, Blu-ray players are also narrowing the price gap with HD DVD players. The arguments that might have worked in HD DVD's favor a year ago don't hold much water today.

And to verge further into HD DVD fanboyism, their smugness and irrationality goes so far as to make format decisions based on the fact that they hate Sony! Nevermind that the BDA is an grouping of most of Hollywood and hundreds of consumer electronics companies. We get that people are upset about Sony's proprietary formats and the rootkit episode. But to call Sony anti-consumer is a little stretching it. Companies are entities beholden to their shareholders first, and to consumers only as means of maintaining good faith in the course of business dealings. How consumer friendly is having Toshiba win out when they effectively control HD DVD hardware as well as substantial intellectual property in the HD DVD format? And how does it benefit the consumer to have physical HDM not take off at all and Microsoft capitalize on substandard HD downloads chained to their own proprietary formats and their own brand of DRM (the same thing HD DVD claims will happen if Blu-ray wins)?

Warner has given very reasonable arguments as to why they went Blu. Warner has said that it picked a side to avoid consumer confusion and foster mass market adoption of high def media, and that it went Blu because of (1) Blu-ray's greater installed base, (2) higher Blu-ray player sales despite the price premium, (3) overall software sales of 2:1, (4) Warner title sales of 60:40, (5) and strong Blu-ray international sales. Despite this, HD DVD supporters still refuse to recognize what has increasingly become clear in the last year, that Blu-ray is winning and there are good reasons for its dominance. Rather, they grasp at rumors and hearsay to find some malicious dealing on Sony's part to screw them out of the format that riskily invested hundreds or thousands of dollars in. Seriously, move on.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

What amuses me is the continued smugness and occasional desperation of the HD DVD group and their fans.

I think you should stop painting everyone with the same brush, or you may be guilty of that same smugness or obnoxiousness.

[Madrag]

it's a good day for blueray™

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I think you should stop painting everyone with the same brush, or you may be guilty of that same smugness or obnoxiousness.

Fair enough. I meant to say "some" fans. After reading reactions on the AVS and High Def Digest boards, a majority of HD DVD users have accepted the fact that Warner's exclusivity meant a likely Blu-ray win and plan to deal with it accordingly. No tantrums, just questions about what to do next and what it means for them. But it dismays me when there are rapid holdouts who rally to send threatening letters to Warner, or propose ludicrous plans to turn the tide for HD DVD, or cling on to every bit of rumor or hearsay they hear as proof positive that there was some underhanded dealings made.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Fair enough. I meant to say "some" fans. After reading reactions on the AVS and High Def Digest boards, a majority of HD DVD users have accepted the fact that Warner's exclusivity meant a likely Blu-ray win and plan to deal with it accordingly. No tantrums, just questions about what to do next and what it means for them. But it dismays me when there are rapid holdouts who rally to send threatening letters to Warner, or propose ludicrous plans to turn the tide for HD DVD

Well, the exact same thing happened when Paramount went HD DVD. Why are you surprised?

rumor or hearsay they hear as proof positive that there was some underhanded dealings made.

Oh, I fully believe there were dealings made. Warner would be braindead not to accept money thrown at them, from either side, as long as it suits their needs. I just don't think it's underhanded. It's just a part of doing business. I said that when Paramount went HD DVD exclusive, and I say that now when Warner has gone Blu-ray exclusive.

I just think Toshiba got Steve Job'd by Warner and Toshiba is pissed. Warner and Toshiba have a long history together, which has been good business for both of them, but Warner saw what was best for them and what they felt was best for the war and went Blu-ray, while at the same time putting on a smiling face to Toshiba. (What I mean by Steve Job'd is Apple putting out hints it could go Intel if they wanted to, and then at one point just doing it, totally shocking IBM executives.)

Now, it would be interesting to hear what's the deal with the Toshiba-Warner contract. It could just be Toshiba crying wolf, but if there is at least a little meat to what they claim then it could prove ugly for both sides.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by Eug 

In the meantime, I just hope this doesn't mean hardware and software prices stagnate. I suspect we'll see a slowing of BD price drops, and won't see a Profile 1.1 BD player at $199 until fall or later, and I also suspect we'll see less Blu-ray BOGOs in the coming months. I dunno about HD DVD pricing though. Perhaps they'll drop prices further, and if so, I'll buy more titles, but I'm definitely not paying over $20 for any non-box set. In fact, as it is, my Q4 2007 purchases averaged out to less than $20 each.

That's my hope too. Blu-ray still needs to consolidate its position as the next generation format against HD DVD and sway over their two remaining exclusive studios so they still have an incentive to lower hardware prices to spur J6P's adoption. And in the grander scheme of things, Blu-ray still has to win out against standard def DVD. Consumers are quite used to buying DVDs for much less than $20 a pop (if they haven't already moved to Netflix) so it might be to Blu-ray's benefit to continue having the occasional 50% or BOGO specials to foster the transition.

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Now, it would be interesting to hear what's the deal with the Toshiba-Warner contract. It could just be Toshiba crying wolf, but if there is at least a little meat to what they claim then it could prove ugly for both sides.

According to Variety:

The shift doesn’t go into effect until June 1. Sanders said the studio will continue to release HD DVD discs until May 31 to honor its previous commitment to that format’s backers, then switch to Blu-ray only on the high-def front. Last summer, Blockbuster similarly phased out HD DVD discs from rental rotation.

My guess from what's being said in the press is that Warner's contractual obligations to HD DVD end May 31, 2008 and they will not be renewing their support for the format after that.

[Eug]

One concern of mine... I'm running out of inputs with my projector.

I'm going to be format neutral, but I wanted to eventually get a Mac mini, once it got HDCP. (BTW, I think it's pretty much a lock now that Apple will go Blu-ray exclusive with their own hardware offerings.)

Xbox 360 and HD DVD - component
HD PVR - HDMI
Mac mini - DVI -> HDMI
BD 1.1 player - HDMI

Unfortunately, my receiver only has 2 HDMI inputs. I do have an extra HDMI input on my projector, but I'll have to run extra cables I guess but that will be problematic in my setup. Or I suppose I could run VGA for the Mac mini cuz I already have the cable installed.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

My guess from what's being said in the press is that Warner's contractual obligations to HD DVD end May 31, 2008 and they will not be renewing their support for the format after that.

That's what I was thinking too. I'm just wildly speculating but perhaps that is in fact the contract, but Warner interpreted it to mean they can announce whatever they please before the contract ended, and Toshiba says they can't because it violates the spirit of the contract. However, like I said, I'm just wildly guessing.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm going to be format neutral

Once you return your BSG disks and Star Trek how many HD-DVD's you gonna be left with?

[Oversoul]

Originally Posted by Eug 

One concern of mine... I'm running out of inputs with my projector.

I'm going to be format neutral, but I wanted to eventually get a Mac mini, once it got HDCP. (BTW, I think it's pretty much a lock now that Apple will go Blu-ray exclusive with their own hardware offerings.)

Xbox 360 and HD DVD - component
HD PVR - HDMI
Mac mini - DVI -> HDMI
BD 1.1 player - HDMI

Unfortunately, my receiver only has 2 HDMI inputs. I do have an extra HDMI input on my projector, but I'll have to run extra cables I guess but that will be problematic in my setup. Or I suppose I could run VGA for the Mac mini cuz I already have the cable installed.

Why not get a HDMI switcher?

[hyteckit]

Oversoul is a crazy Bluray fanboy.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

What amuses me is the continued smugness and occasional desperation of the HD DVD group and their fans. Again, I'm not denying pledges of support or incentives weren't made; reduced pressing costs and licensing and incentives of that sort have always been quite the norm. But the HD DVD camp are the ones who opened up the Pandora's box of making large lump sum cash "promotional" payments to Hollywood studios (Paramount and Dreamworks) to win exclusivity and now they can't fathom why Warner or any other studio would go or stay Blu unless there was the same kind of payment being made, and if there was to cry foul. Let's call it for what it is, a fat check to buy exclusivity.

There is nothing wrong with Toshiba making payments to Paramount, and there is anything wrong with Sony making payments to Warner or Fox either. Incentives in forms of cash, promotional, and whatever. Business is business. Business do that all the time.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

HD DVD supporters need to seriously get over themselves. We get that you're mad that you invested into a losing format, but early adopters take the risk of that anyway, especially when it was as clear as it was from the start that there were going to be two very strong competing high def formats. And even as late as last year, pick a date, PS3s each with Blu-ray drives were selling by the millions (and even if attachment rate was lower than expected, that's still a whole lot of PS3s being sold as Blu-ray players), Blu-ray titles were beating HD DVD sales week after week by upwards of 2:1 margins, overseas sales favored Blu-ray 3:1 (Europe) and 9:1 (Japan), studio support was even then in favor of Blu-ray (until HD DVD's bribe of Paramount/Dreamworks), you name it. And as late as December, Pali Research (which broke news of the Paramount defection), Variety, and the New York Times all reported that Warner was set to go Blu. Did HD DVD supporters not see that HD DVD was on the losing end? And did they really think HD DVD could win? -- not draw a stalemate for another year or two, but actually win. (To do so, they had to bribe Paramount/Dreamworks to go red, and even then they would have had to sway Warner to go red as well as another Blu studio to defect.)

Again, what's wrong with Toshiba offering incentives for Paramount to go exclusive to HDDVD? I don't think there is anything wrong if Sony offer incentives for Paramount to go exclusive to Bluray. I don't understand fanboy mentality.

They only reason I would be sad that HDDVD is the losing platform is because to me, it's the best Hidef platform right now. Picture quality and Sound quality just as good as Bluray, but players are cheaper. Has more features than Bluray. I happen to like PiP and web interactivity. Content is dynamic and not static. It's like having YouTube on your Hidef player and new content is always available.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

And from a technical standpoint, how can HD DVD fans or any movie lover deny that Blu-ray's technology is beyond HD DVD's stopgap technology. Blu-ray discs offer more capacity (25/50GB v. 15/30GB), short of 51ROM (which still has not been confirmed to be compatible with current HD DVD players nor confirmed to be used in any upcoming title). Higher capacity means more room to encode movies with higher bit rates and lossless audio. And from an end user standpoint, I'm glad Warner's pending exclusivity will mean that they won't release future titles dumbed down to fit HD DVD's limitations. Sure, HD DVD supporters claim PiP and web interactivity but does this really matter to so many people? And if it does, the Blu-ray camp has narrowed the gap in that regard too with Profile 1.1 now the requisite standard for new players and PS3s upgradeable to 1.1. And on price point, Blu-ray players are also narrowing the price gap with HD DVD players. The arguments that might have worked in HD DVD's favor a year ago don't hold much water today.

How is Bluray technical superior to HDDVD besides higher storage capacity? You then go on saying HDDVD has features that Bluray doesn't have. Bluray fanboys seems to try everything to put down features of HDDVD. Like PiP ruins the movie experience or how web interactivity is useless. I love PiP. I watch 300 completely through. Then I watch 300 in PiP with bluescreen mode. It is awesome. Not only does it not ruin my movie experience, it enhances it. PiP and web interactivity are for movie fans because movie fans don't just want to enjoy a movie, they also want to be part of it. They get to see how it is made, what the actors and directors thing about it, and so forth. You don't like PiP, that's fine, but don't say it's dumb for consumers to like it.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

And to verge further into HD DVD fanboyism, their smugness and irrationality goes so far as to make format decisions based on the fact that they hate Sony! Nevermind that the BDA is an grouping of most of Hollywood and hundreds of consumer electronics companies. We get that people are upset about Sony's proprietary formats and the rootkit episode. But to call Sony anti-consumer is a little stretching it. Companies are entities beholden to their shareholders first, and to consumers only as means of maintaining good faith in the course of business dealings. How consumer friendly is having Toshiba win out when they effectively control HD DVD hardware as well as substantial intellectual property in the HD DVD format? And how does it benefit the consumer to have physical HDM not take off at all and Microsoft capitalize on substandard HD downloads chained to their own proprietary formats and their own brand of DRM (the same thing HD DVD claims will happen if Blu-ray wins)?

I think you are a good example of fanboyism. Smugness and Irrational.

Consumers choose what's good for them, not what is good for companies. You are arguing consumers are stupid for choosing consumer friendly products.

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Warner has given very reasonable arguments as to why they went Blu. Warner has said that it picked a side to avoid consumer confusion and foster mass market adoption of high def media, and that it went Blu because of (1) Blu-ray's greater installed base, (2) higher Blu-ray player sales despite the price premium, (3) overall software sales of 2:1, (4) Warner title sales of 60:40, (5) and strong Blu-ray international sales. Despite this, HD DVD supporters still refuse to recognize what has increasingly become clear in the last year, that Blu-ray is winning and there are good reasons for its dominance. Rather, they grasp at rumors and hearsay to find some malicious dealing on Sony's part to screw them out of the format that riskily invested hundreds or thousands of dollars in. Seriously, move on.

[exca1ibur]

Response from Michael Bay here.

Blu-Ray Bay - The Official Michael Bay Forums

I doubt the Blu-ray players and movies will stop "Buy One Get One Free" sales and player prices will stagnate any time soon. There are still other HD-DVD exclusive studio's out there, so this isn't completely over at this moment. Since Warner isn't exclusive till June, they need go go for the death blow. Sales now of both are even more important to help narrow the shelf space for retailers, and I think the big push now is for the Profile 1.1 players so that card won't be a factored edge for hardware. It's in retail stores court to clean things up in the face of the consumer now, with lots of players and large selections of movies present.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Why not get a HDMI switcher?

Ya you can get them for around $100 but most don't have audio ports in them and Eug reciever doesn't do HDMI audio over HDMI AFAIK.

I got a component switcher as each port also had an optical port. Under $100 and problem solved.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I suspect we'll see a slowing of BD price drops, and won't see a Profile 1.1 BD player at $199 until fall or later, and I also suspect we'll see less Blu-ray BOGOs in the coming months.

I'm willing to bet there will be $200 1.1 players on the market in 6 months and BOGO sales and BR player sales will still continue as they are competing with getting people to upgrade from DVD now and drive the final nail in HD-DVD coffin.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Once you return your BSG disks and Star Trek how many HD-DVD's you gonna be left with?

I haven't decided yet whether or not to keep the BSG disks. Yeah the audio issue pisses me off, but I haven't finished watching it on HD yet and it's a Universal title anyways.

I'm returning Star Trek, but I'll get another copy. This set is awesome.

As for the others... If I exclude the box sets I have 38 movies, 15 of them I got basically for free or as gifts.

Of the remaining 23, 8 are Warner, and the last 15 are Universal and Paramount, with 1 Studio Canal release thrown in.

P.S. Studio Canal's La Haine is an awesome movie, although it's a little too harsh for a lot of people methinks.



100% at Rotten Tomatoes

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I'm willing to bet there will be $200 1.1 players on the market in 6 months and BOGO sales and BR player sales will still continue as they are competing with getting people to upgrade from DVD now and drive the final nail in HD-DVD coffin.

Well, summer or fall, it's still quite some time from now. I would buy a BD1.1 $200 player tomorrow if was a reasonably OK one. (Actually, I would have bought one 6 months ago had they existed.) Well, now that Warner has moved, perhaps $249 CAD.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

I think any day where Microsoft loses at a format war is a good day for consumers. The sad truth is if MS would have put an HD-DVD drive in the Xbox standard from day one the format might have won as Xbox has sold 17 mil by now.

Anyway, Toshiba is going to be taking a HUGE loss over all this as they spent the last 2 years practically giving away the hardware for no profit or a loss with no way to reclaim that in the future as the they are not going to get licensing money now that HD-DVD is dead. There TV's for years haven't been worth looking at.

in 1999-2001 Toshiba was my favorite A/V company for DVD players and TV's but in the past 5 years they have become a bla mid range consumer brand. I still can't get over how crappy many of the HD-DVD players were with 1 minute + to boot and play a simple disk.

So did anyone ever figure out why Universal was so stubborn?

[ajprice]

Where do Microsoft go now though? Keep going as they are with the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive, release a Blu Ray drive, or a combo HD/Blu Ray drive? Maybe even finally bring out that built in HD DVD drive Xbox 360?!?!? Although that move does seem like closing the barn door today after the horse got out 2 years ago.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by ajprice 

Where do Microsoft go now though? Keep going as they are with the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive, release a Blu Ray drive, or a combo HD/Blu Ray drive? Maybe even finally bring out that built in HD DVD drive Xbox 360?!?!? Although that move does seem like closing the barn door today after the horse got out 2 years ago.

They made some comments a few months ago about how they didn't want to include HD-DVD in the xbox because "we don't want to give consumers something that can end up as the Betamax". Smart move in that sense but that is also what might have killed the format.

I think they will either offer a Blu-drive or possibly nothing at all as stand alones will be cheap enough by then for no price of feature advantage for an Xbox add on.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Oversoul 

Why not get a HDMI switcher?

Well, I'd probably just buy a new receiver eventually... although I've noticed that receivers with more than one HDMI port are quite pricey at the moment.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I think any day where Microsoft loses at a format war is a good day for consumers. The sad truth is if MS would have put an HD-DVD drive in the Xbox standard from day one the format might have won as Xbox has sold 17 mil by now.

The reason the Xbox 360 has sold so many units is because they DIDN'T put an HD DVD player in it. ie. Cost.

BTW, MS still has significant IP in Blu-ray, in the form of VC-1. They make money off of every Blu-ray product sold.

Originally Posted by ajprice 

Where do Microsoft go now though? Keep going as they are with the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive, release a Blu Ray drive, or a combo HD/Blu Ray drive? Maybe even finally bring out that built in HD DVD drive Xbox 360?!?!? Although that move does seem like closing the barn door today after the horse got out 2 years ago.

I don't they'd ever release a Blu-ray drive at this point, but if they did, it'd be cool if you could daisy chain them. That said, my preference for my next player is a standalone. Consoles are annoying for movie playback.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Consoles are annoying for movie playback.

Perhaps on the Xbox but not the PS3 even without IR.
Everyone I know LOVES their PS3 and they always say for DVD and BR more than games.

I have to agree, the PS3 is the best DVD player I have ever owned and I would take it over a top of the line stand alone player.

I mean you can have a 1.1 player today for $400 and it most likely will even be a 2.0 player.

[starman]

How is the PS3 "annoying"? I love it. You pop the movie in, and it starts automatically. The controls on the controller are pretty intuitive. I just don't see the problem other than the fact you have to buy a remote for it if you can't wrap your brain around using the PS3 controller.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

How is the PS3 "annoying"? I love it. You pop the movie in, and it starts automatically. The controls on the controller are pretty intuitive. I just don't see the problem other than the fact you have to buy a remote for it if you can't wrap your brain around using the PS3 controller.

I actually like the BT remote better than an IR one. I have tables in the way of the IR so I always have to angle it funny to get the signal across. The BT remote is rock solid.

Not to mention these "consoles that suck as players" start up movies in 10 seconds including powering it on! They also support 1.1 and more audio codec that these wicked assed stand alones with IR.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

Perhaps on the Xbox but not the PS3 even without IR.
Everyone I know LOVES their PS3 and they always say for DVD and BR more than games.

I have to agree, the PS3 is the best DVD player I have ever owned and I would take it over a top of the line stand alone player.

I mean you can have a 1.1 player today for $400 and it most likely will even be a 2.0 player.

If it doesn't have IR that's definitely an annoyance, and you already know I've tried the PS3 with Blu-ray. It's OK, but I do prefer standalones.

Mind you, if they dropped the price significantly, I'd consider it, since it's Profile 1.1 (with possible eventual 2.0 support), it's 1080p24 compatible, and it's fast. And who knows, maybe Logitech will release an affordable universal remote with Bluetooth.

As for movies vs. games on the PS3. I do note that a lot of the AVSers fit into that category, but that's because it's AVS, and because the PS3's games have been lacklustre in large part.

The other problem with the PS3 is that the DVD upscaling is no better than my HD-A2, which is mediocre. That's not a huge deal though, since I don't like watching DVD on my projector anyway. For DVD I prefer to just watch on my 42" TV. I'm not necessarily expecting a $200 player to have great upscaling.

I know you don't understand the sentiment, but the point is the PS3 simply is not a standalone. Some people prefer standalones to consoles and I'm included, despite the fact I actually own a console and fit the console demographic. I'm willing to consider it (as evidenced by my current setup), but it's definitely not my preference. And to top it all off, the PS3 costs $400. I'd really just use it for movies, so I'd prefer to spend less money.

[hyteckit]

Eug,

You are arguing against gamers who are in love with their joysticks. You are going to argue till you are blue, and they won't understand why someone would want a remote control when a game controller would do.

[exca1ibur]

Nyko Blu-Wave Infrared Remote (PS3) Game Accessory reviews - CNET Reviews

[PaperNotes]

Bay is having fun.

Director Michael Bay has once again tossed his high-def format battle opinions into the wild, this time commenting on Warner Home Video's announcement to go Blu-ray exclusive starting in June. The message appeared in his forums last night and is sure to piss off already beaten down HD DVD supporters even more.

"Well another studio down. Maybe I was right? Blu ray is just better. HD-DVD will die a slow death. It's what I predicted a year ago. Now with Warner's down for the count with Blu Ray. That makes it easier for Wal-Mart to push Blu Ray. And whatever Wal-Mart pushes - wins. HD-DVD better start giving out those $120 million dollars checks to stay alive. Maybe they can give me some so I can give it to my Make-A-Wish charity, just to shut me up. Have faith people Transformers will come out in Blu-ray one day."

As gruff as his approach may be, you have to admire the guy for being willing to speak his mind. Especially when Transformers 2 is in pre-production with Paramount once again set to distribute it on home video. Hopefully they don't stumble onto his post and shave 5 million off the budget out of spite.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Nyko Blu-Wave Infrared Remote (PS3) Game Accessory reviews - CNET Reviews

The bad: Can't be used to turn the PS3 on or off; proprietary IR codes mean you'll be teaching your universal remote how to interact with the USB dongle.

The bottom line: The Nyko Blu-Wave Infrared Remote is a cheap and easy way to add IR remote compatibility to your PS3, but the inability to power the console on or off is an annoying limitation.

Not the end of the world to be sure, but annoying nonetheless. I suppose you could leave the PS3 on all the time though. How much power does the PS3 draw when idle? My A2 draws too much power when idle for my tastes (37 Watts).

[exca1ibur]

When you put the disc in it automatically powers on so that's not an issue.

You don't want to think about leaving it on all the time.

[UPDATE: All the info I can find on the 40GB, says it uses 32.5% less power than these numbers. I calculated those numbers in bold. Link]

Regardless... Still you wouldn't want to leave that sucker running 24/7.

Average power consumption while playing games:
Wii - 17.8 watts
XBox 360 - 185.1 watts
PS3 - 193.6 [130.68]

Average power consumption (idle):
Wii - 13.5 watts
XBox 360 - 157.54 watts
PS3 - 177.17 [119.59]watts

Average power consumption (standby):
Wii (Connect24 off) - 1.3 watts
XBox 360 - 2.5 watts
PS3 - 1.9 [1.28]watts <- My personal option

Power Consumption Report

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Some people prefer standalones to consoles and I'm included, despite the fact I actually own a console and fit the console demographic.

Not really champ. You bought an xbox for $400 + $200 for the Hd-DVD player and YOU NEVER PLAY GAMES ON IT!
You spent more on that glorified HD-DVD player than it would have cost you to get a PS3.

This is why I like my PS3:

1) If the PS3 isn't even on it can stick in a BR disk without even needing to hit eject. The PS3 will power on, suck up the disk and boot its own in 10 seconds.

2) The BR disk is autodetected and starts to play on its own in 5 seconds.

3) When the movie is at the main menu I hit ONE BUTTON... Play.

4) there is no 4.

Total time from off PS3 to watching a movie... about 20 seconds and ONE button push.

Stand alone player:

1) Turn the unit on or hit eject. Put in the disk, push close.

2) Wait for the player to boot and play the disk. 1 min Plus.

3) Hit play on the remote.

Total time. Over a minute plus 3 button pushes.

I don't see what is better about that sorry.

[brassplayersrock²]

woah
back away from the computer


people buy what they want bud. let them

[cgc]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Right now, HD DVD.

FWIW, this is a real-time assessment of the race at Amazon.com: The DVD Wars

To give you an idea... Only the #1 Blu-ray seller is in the top 1000 at Amazon.com, whereas the top 8 HD DVDs are all in the top 1000.

That's not a very good metric by which to judge which format is most popular. It could be that there have only been 8 HD DVDs sold while hundreds of Blu-Rays have been sold and all rank 1001-