[workerbee]

30 days trial versions are here: http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/td...product=studio (I had to use Firefox as Safari for some reason did exactly nothing after clicking the download button).

So far... meh. DW8 is a little bit nicer than DW MX04; opening a simple html/css page in DW MX 04 uses 0% CPU when in the background, around 14% in DW8, and the strange hissing noises are back in full force, too.

Installing Flash 8 now...

[jmelrose]

Please continue to post your initial impressions and observations.

Thanks!
jmelrose

[workerbee]

Originally Posted by jmelrose

Please continue to post your initial impressions and observations.

Well, DW8's CPU-eating habits suddenly ceased, I guess it must have gobbled enough. Sitting in the background, it's now at about 2.5% CPU (1.33GHz G4 / 2GB RAM), which is OK.

CSS handling is very good from what I've tested: it renders a site I'm working on flawlessly, while StyleMaster 4 and HyperEdit choked on it.

Tabs are strange and unusual at first, but immeasurably better than the attack of the shrinking windows one got in DW MX 04 when opening several files at once.

Flash 8 Pro: very nice overall. Some quirky text rendering in the help UI (search field) as well as in the transform panel, and some weird artifacts in the timeline, but apart from that, I'm happy so far. Enhanced Strokes are really good -- I had to import EPS files today, and doing this on FL8 results in much better strokes (much too thin, in fact almost almost invisible in FL MX 04). Of course, like all other software companies that want to sell, MM makes it really hard to work in FL8 and keep MX 04 compatibility: one can't just save a file, one has to "save as", and there's all sorts of fun dialogue popping up

See also Colin's review at http://www.moock.org/blog/archives/000172.html (even though -- or because -- he says:"Macintosh Document Tabs No comment. (I don't use a Mac (yet).")

Fireworks 8: not tested yet -- it does start up faster than FW MX 04, but that's not a very difficult feat to achieve in the first place, is it?

So far, Studio 8 feels a lot more polished than MX 04 when it was released, at least on our platform. That credit card is getting mighty restless...

[osxisfun]

does the editor feel snappy (no pun intended) I really would like to know what the editor "feels" like when editing larger docs (in text edit mode.)

thanks!

[Mac Write]

DW8 and CSS=crap. I use list for navigation and it doesn't display it horizontally as the CSS says to do. I give Dreamweaver 8 Back to reliable BBEdit.

[workerbee]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

DW8 and CSS=crap. I use list for navigation and it doesn't display it horizontally as the CSS says to do. I give Dreamweaver 8 Back to reliable BBEdit.

Works beautifully here with a list nav of 20 entries separated into 4 ULs with 5 LIs each.

[Mac Write]

well it displays as a list for me. it doesn't display horizontally along the top, but does display properly in Safari (since I coded it months ago by hand).

[workerbee]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

well it displays as a list for me. it doesn't display horizontally along the top, but does display properly in Safari (since I coded it months ago by hand).

Do you have a link? I'm curious

[budster101]

Just DL Flash 8 and I am liking it so far. It's far better than MX, and I'm skipping over 2004, as I didn't think it was worth the investment. I may go for this version to upgrade.

[Mac Write]

Sure here are some examples:

• Example 1
• Example 2
• Example 3
• Example 4
• Example 5
• Example 6

[Castor]

I am having trouble downloading Flash 8 as a component of my Studio 8 upgrade. The store orderpage states the download should be 145 MB, the file stops loading at 105 and the checksum fails upon mounting the DMG. Someone else posted similar trouble with Flash 8 on the MM forums.
Anyone here too?

[inkhead]

Dreamweaver 8 is awesome with CSS, if you take an example from csszengarden it will render properly in the preview. Excellent upgrade so far, much faster than MX. I love it so far.. way to go! Fireworks upgrade looks great too. Also is very good with mixed php/html code. I use Golive mostly, but Dreamweaver 8 blows my Golive away for render of CSS in editing preview, and handling of mixed php/html

Way to go macromedia (you even got the installer right by using VISE)

[workerbee]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Sure here are some examples:
(snip)

Hmmm... what's the CSS for <ul id="navigation"> and its <li>?
DW8 should certainly be able to render this correctly.

[Mac Write]

I build my site using PHP Includes. I guess if it's not all one page, then DW doesn't like it. Maybe that's the problem. I have Header, Footer, Navigation, etc as includes.

Code:
#navigation
{
	text-align: center;
	margin-top: 5px;
	margin-bottom: 0px;
	padding: 0px;
	height: 2px;
}
ul#navigation li
{
	display: inline;
	list-style-type: none;
	padding: 5px 5px 0px 5px;
	margin: 5px 0px 5px 0px;
	background-color: #9CF;
	border-color: #FFF #999 #999 #FFF;
	border-width: 1px 1px 0px 1px;
	border-style: solid;
}
	ul#navigation li:link, ul#navigation li:visited
	{
		color: black;
		font-weight: normal;
		height: 20px;
	}
	#navigation li:hover, #navigation li:active	
	{
		background-color: #666;
		border-color: #333 #FFF #FFF #333;
		border-width: 3px 3px 0px 3px;
		border-style: solid;
		display: box;
		color: white;
		text-decoration: none;
		font-weight: normal;
	}
	ul#navigation a:hover, ul#navigation a:active	
	{
		display: box;
		color: white;
		text-decoration: none;
		font-weight: normal;
		padding: 5px;
	}
	
#sub-navigation-background
{
	width: 100%;
	text-align: center;
	background-color: #CCC;
	padding 0px;
	margin: 0px;
}
	ul#sub-navigation li	
	{
		display: inline;
		list-style-type: none;
		padding: 10px;
		background-color: #CCC;

	}
	ul#sub-navigation li:link, ul#sub-navigation li:visited
	{
		color: black;
		font-weight: normal;
	}
	#sub-navigation li:hover, #sub-navigation li:active	
	{
		background-color: #666;
		text-decoration: none;
		font-weight: normal;
	}
	ul#sub-navigation a:hover, ul#sub-navigation a:active	
	{
		color: white;
		text-decoration: none;
		font-weight: normal;
	}

[workerbee]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

I build my site using PHP Includes. I guess if it's not all one page, then DW doesn't like it. Maybe that's the problem. I have Header, Footer, Navigation, etc as includes.

I'll have to look at the code later on (quite busy now, deadlines approaching), but I tested a site I made in BBEdit, and even the PHP-included and CMS-generated <UL><LI> navigation using a PHP variable was rendered almost perfectly in DW8, using its "testing server" setup.

However, neither the PHP-included navigation nor its CSS can be edited within DW8 -- what I do in these cases is open the page in a browser, and save a static version into my project directory as "indexrendered.html". I then use this to work on the sometimes heavily cascading CSS.

One thing I disliked is that I'm never entirely sure what gets up- or downloaded by DW8 FTP; it sometimes is too smart for its own good...

[iluvmymactoo]

Apparently I qualify for a free upgrade to Studio 8 as I had just bought Studio MX 2004. Does that mean I will have to download an actual upgrade or will they supply me with a full version 8? I'm kind of curious as version 8 doesn't have Freehand in it so not sure how that happens and if it's reliable.

[Castor]

Originally Posted by Castor

I am having trouble downloading Flash 8 as a component of my Studio 8 upgrade. The store orderpage states the download should be 145 MB, the file stops loading at 105 and the checksum fails upon mounting the DMG. Someone else posted similar trouble with Flash 8 on the MM forums.
Anyone here too?

To whom it may concern: Solved it by downloading the trial, it is the same installer.

[workerbee]

I just realized that Macromedia has adopted Adobe greediness, has moved Switzerland into the EU, and is asking US$ 550+ for the Studio 8 upgrade in a non-localized version -- i.e., the identical version that is selling for $399 in the US and about a hundred other countries (MM worldwide store).

They are greatly mistaken if they think I'll simply fork over $150 for the pleasure of being by their corporate price-gouging policy.

Dumb s.

[Mac Write]

Just put in the rendered page, still screws it up. I am completely not impressed and give it Sorry Macromedia, but you have lost a customer. Ever since I switched to CSS (table-less) design DW has been completely useless. BBEdit, vbulletin, vbcms is all I need now it seems.

[workerbee]

Somehow DW8 must dislike something you did... this is with your unmodified CSS attached...

[:dragonflypro:]

Originally Posted by workerbee

I just realized that Macromedia has adopted Adobe greediness, has moved Switzerland into the EU, and is asking US$ 550+ for the Studio 8 upgrade in a non-localized version -- i.e., the identical version that is selling for $399 in the US and about a hundred other countries (MM worldwide store).

They are greatly mistaken if they think I'll simply fork over $150 for the pleasure of being by their corporate price-gouging policy.

Dumb s.

Certainly no expert, but I am guessing it has more to do with the wildly out control EU VAT that seems to be disproportionate across the EU member nations.

Just a thought.

[Mac Write]

but I have it as a include so no html header body etc tags.

[workerbee]

Originally Posted by :dragonflypro:

Certainly no expert, but I am guessing it has more to do with the wildly out control EU VAT that seems to be disproportionate across the EU member nations.

Nope.

Upgrade from 449 € ex VAT

It's just corporate greediness. (Note that Switzerland is not part of the EU anyway; our VAT is currently at a more reasonable 7.6%)

Anyone from Europe not willing to shove US$150 up MMs corporate sunshine-free parts: there is a way to avoid the greed tax (PM if necessary)

[workerbee]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

but I have it as a include so no html header body etc tags.

Like this?

It's true that if you look at the <ul id="navigation><li></li></ul> code snippet by itself, DW8 will show a bulleted UL list. But so will BBEdit and Safari, as there is no way for them to know about the CSS that is defined.

[eggman]

One thing that blew me away by the DW 8 is performance. Updating pages when changing templates happened so fast that I didn't believe that it had updated 52 dependant files in that time... but it had.

[Lava Lamp Freak]

How is stability? DW MX 04 crashes on me a lot when I'm editing CSS.

[eggman]

I never had stability problems with DW 2004 MX (program crashes were far less common than with Firefox, for example - and I tend to keep them both open most of the time) and DW 8 seems comparable to me.

The place I had encountered bugginess in DW 2004 MX was when it was updating libraries or templates of files when using Check In/Check Out file locking. If you didn't already have the most recent version of a file locally, a template update would simply unlock the local file and update it, rather than checking it out from the server... which completely violates the utility of having file check in/out.

The release notes indicate that an improvement in DW 8 is supposed to "Prevent accidentally overwriting other's work with improved check in/out functionality". Which suggests that they fixed that problem, but I wouldn't go out on a limb and confirm it as reliable yet: I'm still a little reluctant to trust it just yet after having been burned by that.

Background FTP is a very welcome change in Dreamweaver.