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Kate · 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by mrtew

I don't know what kind of announcement I'm expecting but that statement just seems SO lame to me. Why not make a monthly posting letting all their PAYING customers know how long they might have to wait for an update. Why not? Seriously.

Well, that was what the email told me. With regard to customer treatment and PR-policy that sort of statement lets me feel quite uneasy in way as well.

If you're actively developing a product with an uncertain release date I would let my customers know every once in a while just to keep them informed and avoiding interest to calm down too much. On the other hand I could understand that they must be pretty annoyed by all those requests coming in to give a fixed release date.

Maybe there are bugs that need to be fixed on Apples side they are waiting for (can you say 10.5.2?). Or that the new security features 10.5 is forcing into the system hinders or blocks efficient hijacking of calls to GUI elements. In order to reverse engineer some of the system calls you need to use trace functions that Apple recently seems to have blocked in part, which also hinders some bug fixing for other people as well it seems. In those cases even a lose date cannot be given.

But you could openly communicate this to the customer base. I guess this would be better than silence. However I also could be wrong about this. Time will tell.

The Wolf · Jan 28, 2008, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by mrtew

It's very polite and professional to write every month or two letting your customers know whether you're still alive and in business...

Exactly. I even check their blog just to see if there's some sign of progress, but the last post is from November '07. I have relied on several of their products and it just pisses me off that they don't post a simple "xxxx/xx/xx Update: we're working on it" kind of message. I used another product (forget what it was right now) in the past and the only way I found out the company was out of business was via 'someone else's' blog I found after a google search.

JellyBeen · Jan 28, 2008, 10:14 PM

Yes, very unprofessional. As much as I like their products, they perhaps should take a week-end class in proper business
etiquette.

Ishan Bhattacharya · Jan 29, 2008, 11:51 AM

If you read the blog-or comments on various forums by Unsanity "employees," proper etiquette (business or otherwise) is not high on the list of Unsanity's priorities.

Jasoco · Jan 29, 2008, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Spiddlydot

Here Here!

I think you mean "Hear hear!"

The Straight Dope Mailbag: Why do people say, "Hear, hear"?<BR>

Spiddlydot · Jan 31, 2008, 05:23 AM

I think you mean "Hear hear!"

Oops yes I do, thanks.

sayonaraML · Feb 2, 2008, 05:26 PM

The funniest thing about their whole customer approach is to read their "what we're all about". My favorite part is "if a user expects a feature to be present, it will be.

To achieve these goals we will develop extensive business contacts, build a reputation of a moral company, and create respectable, innovative joint ventures to satisfy customer needs."

A moral company? In what way? Just sticking with the definition of moral that deals with right and wrong, how exactly are they doing that?

mac1984 · Feb 3, 2008, 01:09 PM

It is a bit sad how Unsanity has simply cut people off. I do not know whether I will be returning when, and more so "if," they can make their haxies Leopard viable. The more I continue without them—the less I miss them. They censor their blog now in bad way, even for those who were loyal.

roosta · Feb 4, 2008, 03:11 AM

i wonder if the threat of a class action suit or some other legal action from their customers might elicit a response?

mrtew · Feb 4, 2008, 07:22 AM

Wow!

mac1984 · Feb 4, 2008, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by roosta

i wonder if the threat of a class action suit or some other legal action from their customers might elicit a response?

Personally not interested in lawsuits as they really are not warranted in this case. Besides, Unsanity is a LLC and the liability is the amount you paid for the haxies, at the time you bought them. I have received more than the cost of the haxies in value, but now I am simply moving on for another reason: I do not want to get stuck in a similar situation like this Leopard transition where Unsanity cannot meet deadline releases in conjunction with system releases...too much hassle. Many other developers more than met the challenge ahead of Leopard's release (e.g., Agile Web Solutions, maker of 1Password).

roosta · Feb 4, 2008, 10:02 PM

it was just a thought. though unsanity does seem to be at fault here with their silence. a simple 'we're working on it' would be fine for most.

anyhow, if i could change all the ugly aqua elements (all that 'glass' look stuff) i'd be happy, though i'd love to have v23 or frankentheme back on my system.

Chuckit · Feb 4, 2008, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by mac1984

Personally not interested in lawsuits as they really are not warranted in this case. Besides, Unsanity is a LLC and the liability is the amount you paid for the haxies, at the time you bought them. I have received more than the cost of the haxies in value, but now I am simply moving on for another reason: I do not want to get stuck in a similar situation like this Leopard transition where Unsanity cannot meet deadline releases in conjunction with system releases...too much hassle. Many other developers more than met the challenge ahead of Leopard's release (e.g., Agile Web Solutions, maker of 1Password).

That's not really fair. It's like saying, "In-N-Out employees can manage to make me a burger in less than a minute — why are researchers taking so long to make a cure for the common cold?" (Not to imply that 1Password is as simple as a hamburger.)

I mean, you're totally within your rights using whatever software you want and I understand why you'd be fed up with the unexpected wait. I just don't think APE is all that comparable to most other applications.

mac1984 · 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

That's not really fair. It's like saying, "In-N-Out employees can manage to make me a burger in less than a minute — why are researchers taking so long to make a cure for the common cold?" (Not to imply that 1Password is as simple as a hamburger.)

I mean, you're totally within your rights using whatever software you want and I understand why you'd be fed up with the unexpected wait. I just don't think APE is all that comparable to most other applications.

I'm sorry, but it is clearly understood by patrons that In-N-Out's burgers take longer than a minute to prepare (I believe you know this too.) The analogy to the common cold...well...it isn't even worth going down that path as they are not remotely associated in the scheme of development. But if you insist, then we're definitely screwed!

In the past, I was a steadfast supporter of Unsanity, but they have cut us off now. I have no doubt that in the future Unsanity will simply do the same when convenient. Just for the record it is not the wait that has caused me to move on—it is the total lack of communication to the masses. After all, this is the internet age, and the dissemination of information is much easier than it was even a decade ago. And why jump my ass, as I am averse to any lawsuit?

Chuckit · Feb 5, 2008, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by mac1984

I'm sorry, but it is clearly understood by patrons that In-N-Out's burgers take longer than a minute to prepare (I believe you know this too.) The analogy to the common cold...well...it isn't even worth going down that path as they are not remotely associated in the scheme of development.

The point is that just because a SIMBL-based application with a limited range of host apps was released at a certain time doesn't mean a much more difficult and far-reaching framework and set of apps can be finished in the same timeframe. And we've seen the kind of problems APE can cause even when it's been through rigorous QA, so I would really not want Unsanity to rush something out the door.

Originally Posted by mac1984

In the past, I was a steadfast supporter of Unsanity, but they have cut us off now. I have no doubt that in the future Unsanity will simply do the same when convenient. Just for the record it is not the wait that has caused me to move on—it is the total lack of communication to the masses. After all, this is the internet age, and the dissemination of information is much easier than it was even a decade ago. And why jump my ass, as I am averse to any lawsuit?

Like I said, if you're personally offended by Unsanity's lack of communication, you can respond however you like. I understand how you feel, and it doesn't hurt me personally if you never buy their stuff again or even if you sue them (though I don't think there are legitimate grounds). I still respect what they do on a technical level, and I hate to see a cool hack like APE impugned just because the company doesn't blog enough.

Didn't mean to "jump your ass," by the way.

fisherKing · Feb 5, 2008, 10:05 AM

what i heard from unsanity this morning (in response to an email)...
this morning being 5 february...

"We are hard at work getting Application Enhancer (APE) and our haxies compatible with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard. We've been so delayed because APE didn't even run until we received the shipping version of Leopard. Unsanity has 9 shareware products and about 4 free products that *must* work in Leopard, and APE requires some of these other products be updated first. We will release APE when we feel it is ready and not a moment before, but we will not be posting further status updates until then."

mac1984 · 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

"...or even if you sue them (though I don't think there are legitimate grounds)."

Chuckit, for being a Moderator, it would be awfully damn nice if you actually read who posted about suing Unsanity, it was Roosta, not me. Crap sakes, get it right man!

mrtew · Feb 5, 2008, 08:03 PM

Originally Posted by fisherKing

what i heard from unsanity.... "We will release APE when we feel it is ready and not a moment before, but we will not be posting further status updates until then."

That's just such an odd turn-of-phrase that they keep using. I almost feel like it's insulting to their customers, but not really... just weird. It's like they're huffy because we're asking too much by wanting software updates, and even too much by wanting news on them. And why would they respond to emails but not to postings on their own blogs or on forums like this? Glad to hear they're still alive though.

roosta · Feb 5, 2008, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by mac1984

Chuckit, for being a Moderator, it would be awfully damn nice if you actually read who posted about suing Unsanity, it was Roosta, not me. Crap sakes, get it right man!

yeah, pick on me if you have to.

the whole suing thing was just an idea expressed to see -by readers' reactions- just how upset they are about this unsanity business. it makes sense that if you want people to keep buying your product you ought to let them know how things are going, otherwise even if you do eventually update your products and they perform better than ever, you run the risk of people not buying them and possibly, in the case with software, pirating them.

the ball is in unsanity's court.....

Chuckit · Feb 5, 2008, 09:30 PM

For the record, I never said mac1984 wanted to sue Unsanity, nor was I "picking on" anyone. My first post was disagreeing with mac1984 on technological grounds — it said nothing about any lawsuit. In his response, mac1984 asked me, "Why jump my ass, as I am averse to any lawsuit?" My reply to this question — and the only thing time I mentioned suing Unsanity — was that I don't care if he wants to sue Unsanity, because I was talking about technology, not lawsuits. I was just disagreeing with his comparison of 1Password and Unsanity's apps, not attacking him.

So, once more: I do not care who, if anybody, wants to sue Unsanity. I am not going to pick on anyone even if they do want to sue Unsanity. I am not affiliated with Unsanity and it doesn't make any difference to me. I hope it was clear enough this time and we can keep this thread on track.

mrtew · Feb 5, 2008, 11:24 PM

So why do you hate Unsanity and the people that sue them then?

roosta · Feb 6, 2008, 12:09 AM

folks, lets end this petty exchange and return to the subject of the forum, bashing unsanity...

by the way, i rather like unsanity's products, well shapeshifter at least.

mac1984 · Feb 6, 2008, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

For the record, I never said mac1984 wanted to sue Unsanity, nor was I "picking on" anyone. My first post was disagreeing with mac1984 on technological grounds — it said nothing about any lawsuit. In his response, mac1984 asked me, "Why jump my ass, as I am averse to any lawsuit?" My reply to this question — and the only thing time I mentioned suing Unsanity — was that I don't care if he wants to sue Unsanity, because I was talking about technology, not lawsuits. I was just disagreeing with his comparison of 1Password and Unsanity's apps, not attacking him.

So, once more: I do not care who, if anybody, wants to sue Unsanity. I am not going to pick on anyone even if they do want to sue Unsanity. I am not affiliated with Unsanity and it doesn't make any difference to me. I hope it was clear enough this time and we can keep this thread on track.

Okay Chuckit, I am throwing down the gauntlet. Let's see what kind of man you are so here is the challenge (and you have to be honest): How do you order your In-N-Out meal?

Here's how I order mine: No. 1, Animal Style, and fries Well-Done.

Let's hear yours?

P.S. Unsanity? Who, or what, is Unsanity? I haven't heard from them in such a longtime, are they still around?

mac1984 · Feb 7, 2008, 12:23 PM

Well, I win by default! Anyway, good luck to all those waiting on Unsanity.

Mac007 · Feb 25, 2008, 09:32 PM

Just read their current blog entries. Beta's of some of their haxies are now available. Just remember they are beta versions not final versions.

mrtew · Feb 26, 2008, 12:24 AM

They seem to work perfect so far for me! In fact my favorite one, Silk, is much improved over previous versions! I think I've already forgiven them for the long silent treatment, especially since there are pages of technical explanations for what delayed them on the blog.

Brien · Feb 26, 2008, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by mac1984

Okay Chuckit, I am throwing down the gauntlet. Let's see what kind of man you are so here is the challenge (and you have to be honest): How do you order your In-N-Out meal?

Here's how I order mine: No. 1, Animal Style, and fries Well-Done.

Let's hear yours?

P.S. Unsanity? Who, or what, is Unsanity? I haven't heard from them in such a longtime, are they still around?

Is there really any other way? (Well, I usually get a 3x3 but still...)

Oh dear, I'm afraid we've derailed the thread with tasty burgers.

Hal Itosis · Feb 26, 2008, 06:17 PM

May as well post this link: "Enthusiastic Trepidation" [February 24, 2008]

@pplejaxkz · Feb 26, 2008, 07:33 PM

They kind of seem a little snippy in their blog. But I guess I would be too if I had a ton of people asking the same questions over and over. Either way it's nice to see some progress!

fisherKing · Feb 27, 2008, 10:20 PM

funny....fruitmenu has been an essential app for me, in 10.3-10.4.
but now i have the installer for the leopard beta sitting on my desktop for 2 days..and have not yet installed it.

have gotten used to working without it, it seems less...essential.
hmmm... (funny, after all this time i've been whining about "when will we see it in 10.5").

maybe later...

roosta · Feb 28, 2008, 02:52 AM

i'd be happy if unsanity were to just come out with something that allowed the user to get rid of all the 'glassy' aqua elements from the gui. it doesn't have to everything shapeshifter did, just a few things.

mrtew · Feb 28, 2008, 07:56 AM

I totally agree. Aqua is almost OK now except for the remaining Aqua elements. It could be something like ClearDock that just performs one useful function with no settings at all. Call it DeHydrator (because it gets rid of the aqua).

drnkn_stylz · Mar 9, 2008, 09:46 PM

I seriously do not understand how you guys can like the Leopard UI... The grey style theme is cool looking, and would look a lot better without the Aqua elements, I will agree to that. However, I think the new grey elements look like total sh*t. The Apple menu looks very rough and cheap. Same goes with the new window buttons (back forward etc). They just look poorly crafted. There are lots of themers in our community which could do a WAY better job than Apple did. Even Puma's Aqua elements looks more professional than Leopard IMO...

Sorry my rant is semi off topic. I just think Leopard looks terrible, and I know Unsanity will be the people to fix it. I really hope they get a ShapeShifter beta soon (high hopes). It would be a lot better of Unsanity did post messages more often. If they did, a lot less people would email them constantly.

rem · Mar 10, 2008, 05:18 PM

Apple please don't kill Aqua, please!! If you have to change, at least make it easy to change everything to Aqua with an option or CLI command. I would really, really dislike OS X looking like iTunes 7. Already the dull dull grey buttons: I could get that look with Netscape 6 many years ago. I agree it was time to lose the pinstripes and brushed metal, but not Aqua. No, no, no!!

Mithras · Mar 12, 2008, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by fisherKing

wherefore art thou?

Just FYI: wherefore

Hal Itosis · 02:12 AM

Seem to be some updated haxies at VersionTracker, that weren't there an hour ago...

www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/12974 WindowShade
www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/12243 FruitMenu
www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/15012 Silk
www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/18014 ApE SDK

[also Menu Master, FontCard, and Smart Crash Reports]

DarkStarRed · Apr 1, 2008, 05:14 AM

& have you heard whats happened to MacThemes2 yesterday? Cease and Desist order from Apple.

PimPamPet · Apr 1, 2008, 06:04 AM

I was just looking there to see how the theming thread was coming along and I'm getting a Forbidden message! What's going on... anybody who knows?

mrtew · Apr 1, 2008, 06:42 AM

He had to suspect that Apple would try their usual scare stuff eventually. I guess it's scarier once it actually happens though. That's the power of lawyers.... they're so scary. Yikes.

MacDog · Apr 17, 2008, 01:08 PM

Ever hear of April Fool's Day?

Hal Itosis · Apr 17, 2008, 04:27 PM

Wow, ever since Unsanity released those betas this forum is silent.
Where are all the whiners now? Have they no reviews or reports?

mrtew · Apr 17, 2008, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by MacDog

Ever hear of April Fool's Day?

Wow that was a stupid joke! I deleted them from my bookmarks and never would have known if this thread hadn't popped back up!

Originally Posted by Hal Itosis

Wow, ever since Unsanity released those betas this forum is silent.
Where are all the whiners now? Have they no reviews or reports?

Everything seems fine with those betas and back to normal. I guess there's not much else to say. Nothing to whine about except for "where is ShapeShifter" but I guess nobody actually expects it to be updated since themeing was dying so much anyway especially after the Tiger update took many months for a minor update.

JellyBeen · 09:21 AM

They (unsanity) said Shapeshifter is coming but they will announce it only when its ready.

l008com · Apr 18, 2008, 11:44 PM

Since I'm not a huge fan of Kernel Panics, I don't touch anything APe related with a 10ft pole.

mrtew · Apr 19, 2008, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by l008com

Since I'm not a huge fan of Kernel Panics, I don't touch anything APe related with a 10ft pole.

How about not touching APE forum threads with a 10 foot pole from now on? I've been using them for as long as they've been writing them and I've never gotten one from them.

l008com · Apr 19, 2008, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by mrtew

How about not touching APE forum threads with a 10 foot pole from now on? I've been using them for as long as they've been writing them and I've never gotten one from them.

Congrats, your that guy.

@pplejaxkz · May 11, 2008, 08:14 PM

I know this is just another rant, but I am seriously getting antsy over here just waiting on Unsanity! I actually contemplated downgrading to Tiger today, but I stopped myself. I just love Leopard too much and I can't give up Spaces. I don't know how I lived without em' before.

mrtew · May 11, 2008, 10:23 PM

Waiting on Unsanity? I thought they released most of the haxies. Which one are you waiting for? Shapeshifter? I wouldn't hold my breath.

Chuckit · May 11, 2008, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by @pplejaxkz

I know this is just another rant, but I am seriously getting antsy over here just waiting on Unsanity! I actually contemplated downgrading to Tiger today, but I stopped myself. I just love Leopard too much and I can't give up Spaces. I don't know how I lived without em' before.

You know there were virtual desktop apps for Tiger, right? The implementation isn't exactly the same, but they do pretty much the same thing.

Mac007 · Jun 30, 2008, 09:03 PM

Everyone assumes Unsanity is some company with a bunch of employees. Has anyone been to their physical location and verified this? For all we know this is just a couple of people located in their mothers basement. It would be nice if someone who lives in the area could verify just exactly who Unsanity is. It might explain why they're so silent. I get the feeling sometimes this is more of a hobby than a true business.

This is their current address:

Unsanity LLC
4340 E. Indian School Rd Ste. 21-501
Phoenix, AZ 85018
USA

+1 602 595 9257 (fax)