[cxwing]

Hi everyone,
I'm still a newbie in the Mac user community (about a month and loving every moment of it). I'm very excited about some of the upcoming features of Tiger. So my question to those of you who have been there is this: when Apple releases a new version of the OS, does everyone who wishes to upgrade have to pay full price (129$ ?) or is there a rebate for owners of the previous version?
My Powerbook came with 10.3 proof of ownership coupons, will they be of any use?
Thanks.

[BrunoBruin]

Generally speaking, what has happened is that anyone who buys a new Mac after Apple has announced a ship date for the next version of the OS is eligible to upgrade for free* (*$20 shipping and handling). So if, on January 12, they announce that 10.4 will ship March 23, anyone buying a Mac between January 12 and March 23 gets a free* upgrade. Anyone who purchased prior to January 12 is probably out of luck.

When 10.1 came out, Apple did offer a free (really free) upgrade to purchasers of 10.0 if they brought their 10.0 coupon to a store. That was the only time I ever got to use one of the coupons.

[Dr. Smoke]

Hi, cxwing.

Bruno is essentially correct. Given that your Mac purchase has preceded the release of Tiger by potentially many months (the official word from Apple is 1H2005), you should expect to pay full price for Tiger. If you are a student, you can get an educational discount, which if memory serves, was something in the neighborhood of 50% for Panther.

[Nodnarb]

Originally posted by Dr. Smoke:
Hi, cxwing.

Bruno is essentially correct. Given that your Mac purchase has preceded the release of Tiger by potentially many months (the official word from Apple is 1H2005), you should expect to pay full price for Tiger. If you are a student, you can get an educational discount, which if memory serves, was something in the neighborhood of 50% for Panther.

I'd be interested in hearing more on this. If anyone has any information, what have the past student discount on OS upgrades? If it is 50%, thats some big savings for that.

[TETENAL]

http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Im...utingpage.html

[Chuckit]

Originally posted by brandon420506:
I'd be interested in hearing more on this. If anyone has any information, what have the past student discount on OS upgrades? If it is 50%, thats some big savings for that.

It's not on upgrades. Mac OS X costs $70 for education customers, which works out to about 47 percent off.

[LightWaver-67]

Please pardon any inaccuracies in my reply, but...

While our good-ol' buddy Steve Jobs was vacant from Apple... in the OS7, 8 & early 9 days... Apple used to just "Give" it's OS away practically for FREE. I mean, it seemed like it was mostly "Bug-Fixes" with each release, but there were enhancements and features with point-releases... but they were also more liberal with their "Upgrade" pricing back then.

But they got smart with OSX (Kinda mid OS9). They realized that as cool as Macs are... they NEED to turn a profit and they needed to stop giving-away their development hours in the hopes of selling hardware.

I actually AGREE with their pricing scheme. MAJOR point releases should generate revenue, while the incremental releases that fix bugs and add minor features are free and easilly accessible.

No one is FORCING you to move from 10.1 to 10.2 or from 10.2 to 10.3... but if you want these cool new features we spent money & time on developing, here's the price. No upgrades that date-back 9-months or any of that stuff... you want it...? You buy it! Simple!

Just because we WANT it, doesn't mean it should be free. I'm GLAD to see them charging top-dollar, because that means MORE REVENUE for them, which means more cash to spend on R&D, or more developers, or cooler software, or quicker bug fixes...

It takes the company that makes the things we love so much, hardware, gadgets, OSs, beginner & professional applications, etc... and gives them the power to do MORE. It allows them to keep doing cool stuff... not just run-of-the-mill beige boxes that are the same as any other PC, but with a slight curve to the outer casing and a nifty little Apple logo slapped-on for good measure. They now have the capital to innovate.

I hope this does not come across as being a zealot... maybe I am. I try not to be, but what can I say...? It makes me smile inside to walk into a small business and see an iMac or PowerBook being used by employees...

I'm all for the all-or-nothing pricing... as difficult as it is for me to scrape-up the money at times.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by LightWaver-67:
Please pardon any inaccuracies in my reply, but...

While our good-ol' buddy Steve Jobs was vacant from Apple... in the OS7, 8 & early 9 days... Apple used to just "Give" it's OS away practically for FREE. I mean, it seemed like it was mostly "Bug-Fixes" with each release, but there were enhancements and features with point-releases... but they were also more liberal with their "Upgrade" pricing back then.

No, it was very expensive back then too,
charged update for 7
charged update for 7.1
charged update for 7.5
charged update for 8
charged update for 8.5
charged update for 9

[LightWaver-67]

Hmmmm... maybe I was acquiring it illegally then...? I dunno.

Actually... I think I WAS getting copies from a friend at the time... he worked for a Mac-based consulting company that did installs & repairs.

So... my bad.

[JLL]

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
No, it was very expensive back then too,
charged update for 7
charged update for 7.1
charged update for 7.5
charged update for 8
charged update for 8.5
charged update for 9

7.5 was free AFAIK - 7.6 wasn't though.

[Millennium]

The first System update which wasn't free was System 7.1. Before that point, you could take floppies to a store and get them to copy the system for you (Apple itself encouraged this). After this, the paid updates to MacOS were 7.5, 7.6, 8.0, and 9.0.

Apple hasn't really ever charged special upgrade prices or rebates, per se (more's the pity). However, OSX 10.1 was a free upgrade if you went to an Apple Store to get it (these were also the only upgrade-only discs that Apple has ever produced). If you ordered it from Apple they would charge the cost of shipping and handling ($20, which seemed suspiciously high to a lot of people), but that was it.

[BuonRotto]

Uh, isn't the $129 retail box always an upgrade? Does anyone buy a retail box of the Mac OS who isn't upgrading? Everyone who buys it already bought a Mac and has some previous version of Mac OS X installed. So $129 is the upgrade pricing if you have a previous version.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by BuonRotto:
Uh, isn't the $129 retail box always an upgrade?

It neither technically nor legally requires a previous version. So no, it's not an upgrade. It's the full version.

Everyone who buys it already bought a Mac and has some previous version of Mac OS X installed.

I could purchase a bunch of Macs for a Linux cluster for example and sell the Mac licenses because I have no use for them. If I later sell one of these Macs they don't come with a Mac OS license. Someone can then purchase the Mac OS retail box and install it on it.

[JLL]

Originally posted by Millennium:
The first System update which wasn't free was System 7.1. Before that point, you could take floppies to a store and get them to copy the system for you (Apple itself encouraged this). After this, the paid updates to MacOS were 7.5, 7.6, 8.0, and 9.0.

You forgot 8.5.

8.1, 8.6, 9.1, 9.2 were free.

[proton]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Apple hasn't really ever charged special upgrade prices or rebates, per se (more's the pity). However, OSX 10.1 was a free upgrade if you went to an Apple Store to get it (these were also the only upgrade-only discs that Apple has ever produced).

If you got the upgrade discs for Panther from Apple (either you bought Jaguar in the magic window of time, or you own a G5) they were upgrade only discs as well.

- proton

[cpac]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
It neither technically nor legally requires a previous version. So no, it's not an upgrade. It's the full version.
I could purchase a bunch of Macs for a Linux cluster for example and sell the Mac licenses because I have no use for them. If I later sell one of these Macs they don't come with a Mac OS license. Someone can then purchase the Mac OS retail box and install it on it.

The market, if there is one, for Macs lacking a mac os license has got to be *extremely small* (if separation of the OS license from the hardware is even allowed under Apple's EULA)

BuonRotto is right: Essentially, everybody who will buy a copy of Tiger (or who bought a copy of Panther) is upgrading.

[cxwing]

Originally posted by LightWaver-67:

I actually AGREE with their pricing scheme. MAJOR point releases should generate revenue, while the incremental releases that fix bugs and add minor features are free and easilly accessible.

No one is FORCING you to move from 10.1 to 10.2 or from 10.2 to 10.3... but if you want these cool new features we spent money & time on developing, here's the price. No upgrades that date-back 9-months or any of that stuff... you want it...? You buy it! Simple!

Just because we WANT it, doesn't mean it should be free.

I totally see your point and agree on this being a good way to fund R&D for the next OS version. On the other hand, (original poster here, a newbie, remember ) I was surprised to see how many Mac programs require the very latest version of the OS to run, so in a way, you are forced to move. It's all for good reasons, but still, you are forced to buy the upgrade.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by cpac:
The market, if there is one, for Macs lacking a mac os license has got to be *extremely small* (if separation of the OS license from the hardware is even allowed under Apple's EULA)

What the EULA says is irrelevant. German courts have already determined that it is perfectly legal to debundle OEM software regardless what the license says.

Essentially, everybody who will buy a copy of Tiger (or who bought a copy of Panther) is upgrading.

Essentually yes, practically everybody is upgrading. Nevertheless it factually is a full version.

[cpac]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
What the EULA says is irrelevant. German courts have already determined that it is perfectly legal to debundle OEM software regardless what the license says.

well hurray for german courts... unfortunately, many of us don't live in germany, and I bet other countries will be somewhat better about enforcing the EULA's choice of law provisions.

Regardless, the market for macs without os licenses is still practically non-existant.

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by cpac:
well hurray for german courts... unfortunately, many of us don't live in germany, and I bet other countries will be somewhat better about enforcing the EULA's choice of law provisions.

I don't understand why you see the need to mock Germany here. Both the manufactures and the consumers need to be protected and in case of bundled software it was decided (clearly) that it is an act of purchase not a licensing. So the rules of a purchase contract apply and that means when I buy something I can sell it again how I see fit, and if that's in parts so be it. I can purchase a car and sell the tyres if I like to. I can purchase a Mac and sell the graphics card if I already have a better one. And I can also sell the system CD or iLife CD if I have no need for it. Nobody can dictate what I do with my property.

[cpac]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
I don't understand why you see the need to mock Germany here. Both the manufactures and the consumers need to be protected and in case of bundled software it was decided (clearly) that it is an act of purchase not a licensing. So the rules of a purchase contract apply and that means when I buy something I can sell it again how I see fit, and if that's in parts so be it. I can purchase a car and sell the tyres if I like to. I can purchase a Mac and sell the graphics card if I already have a better one. And I can also sell the system CD or iLife CD if I have no need for it. Nobody can dictate what I do with my property.

I wasn't mocking Germany or the German courts - just pointing out that it is only a small minority of Mac users who live in Germany and can avail themselves of this principle of German law.

In the US, and in those countries that will honor the choice of law provision in the EULA, (which, mostly likely, includes a choice of law provision choosing the law of a particular US State as governing the contract), the EULA may well prohibit un-bundling the software.

Regardless, my main point was that very few people are ever going to buy a mac that doesn't come with any system software, (It may be of note that selling the system or iLife or whatever, CDs without first erasing that software from your computer, is almost certainly illegal, even under German law).

As a result, basically all purchases of mac system software are, in effect, "upgrades."

[TETENAL]

Originally posted by cpac:
I wasn't mocking Germany or the German courts - just pointing out that it is only a small minority of Mac users who live in Germany and can avail themselves of this principle of German law.

I think it's fair to assume that it would be handled like in Germany in most western countries, including the USA.

[M]y main point was that very few people are ever going to buy a mac that doesn't come with any system software, [...]
As a result, basically all purchases of mac system software are, in effect, "upgrades."

I wasn't challaging the point. I just pointed out that if you get hold of a Mac without a system license for whatever reason you can legally and technically install a system from the retail OS X box. Therefore it is a full version.

It may be of note that selling the system or iLife or whatever, CDs without first erasing that software from your computer, is almost certainly illegal, even under German law.

Sure, that would be a copyright violation. But that's an unrelated topic.

[macmad]

I think it is right to assume that most people will be upgrading - but it is very usefull to get a full install disk everytime. Some have likened the $129 upgrade per year to some sort of Apple Tax, but the choice to upgrade or not is yours. Apple have also said they will slow down after Tiger.