[EdipisReks]

in early June i bought a 1.83 MacBook Pro. Apple tried to fix the whine and heat issues three times, each time damaging it and causing new problems. this, and the bad service i got from a tier 2 tech, prompted me to send a long letter to [email protected]. i was then put in touch with Nate Doss in corporate relations, and Mr. Doss has been great. he arranged for me to get a brand new 2.16 MacBook Pro, and i was pleased as punch. unfortunately, this new MacBook Pro still had the whine (despite beign a mid July build), so i sent it in for a mainboard replacement. i got it back today, and instead of replacing the mainboard, they replaced the freaking LCD inverter board. obviously this didn't fix the problem. i'm now waiting to hear back from Mr. Doss, as i'm willing to send it in again, but only if i get assurances that the depot will fix the actual problem and won't destroy the thing in the process. since i bought my original MacBook Pro in early June, i've had actual use of my notebook for maybe a month, tops.

at this point, i'm just about ready to sell it and go buy a PC laptop, but everything i see, from Lenovo to Dell to HP, is crap compared to the MacBook Pro, whine issues or not. it seems that nobody else can do a decent job of combining features and form factor; no surprise, i guess. i feel bad about constantly getting repairs and replacements, and i'm sure that Mr. Doss, who has been fantastic through the whole thing, is sick of hearing from me, but i feel that it's completely the Apple depots fault. if they had just fixed my machine properly in the first place (instead of breaking it three times) i would be pleased with my original purchase. even after that, if they had just replaced my mainboard, instead of ignoring the problem, on my new MacBook Pro, i would still be relatively pleased. has anyone else had this kind of bad luck getting repairs? why can't the depot just repair the stuff properly? all of these back and forth repairs and replacements is costing Apple a lot more money than just fixing the thing properly in the first place would have. thanks for reading my rant, i feel a little better now

[ghporter]

From most accounts, the inverter is one of the major culprits in causing the whine (it oscillates at a high frequency to produce the high voltage AC needed for the LCD's backlight). Another potential problem is that the microcode (from Apple) for the processor erroneously causes the processor to switch to a very low power state whenever a "No Op" processor opcode is encountered-which happens at about 100 times a second whenever the machine is idle. It's much easier to replace the inverter than the mainboard.

It's Mr. Doss' job to listen to your problems and do what he can to resolve them. The folks at Apple didn't "ignore" your problem-they tried to resolve it quickly and efficiently. The fact that they didn't resolve it to your satisfaction is all about YOUR perception of the problem. These folks can't know what bothers you without your feedback-and you haven't been shy about providing it.

A couple thousand dollars is a lot of money, and it's understandable that the consumer would want things "right" when they spend that much. But since this is a new issue, and Apple is still trying to figure out how to handle it worldwide, I think you can give them a bit of slack. And more feedback, both negative when required and positive at every opportunity.

[M2S 86]

Originally Posted by EdipisReks

in early June i bought a 1.83 MacBook Pro. Apple tried to fix the whine and heat issues three times, each time damaging it and causing new problems. this, and the bad service i got from a tier 2 tech, prompted me to send a long letter to [email protected]. i was then put in touch with Nate Doss in corporate relations, and Mr. Doss has been great. he arranged for me to get a brand new 2.16 MacBook Pro, and i was pleased as punch. unfortunately, this new MacBook Pro still had the whine (despite beign a mid July build), so i sent it in for a mainboard replacement. i got it back today, and instead of replacing the mainboard, they replaced the freaking LCD inverter board. obviously this didn't fix the problem. i'm now waiting to hear back from Mr. Doss, as i'm willing to send it in again, but only if i get assurances that the depot will fix the actual problem and won't destroy the thing in the process. since i bought my original MacBook Pro in early June, i've had actual use of my notebook for maybe a month, tops.

at this point, i'm just about ready to sell it and go buy a PC laptop, but everything i see, from Lenovo to Dell to HP, is crap compared to the MacBook Pro, whine issues or not. it seems that nobody else can do a decent job of combining features and form factor; no surprise, i guess. i feel bad about constantly getting repairs and replacements, and i'm sure that Mr. Doss, who has been fantastic through the whole thing, is sick of hearing from me, but i feel that it's completely the Apple depots fault. if they had just fixed my machine properly in the first place (instead of breaking it three times) i would be pleased with my original purchase. even after that, if they had just replaced my mainboard, instead of ignoring the problem, on my new MacBook Pro, i would still be relatively pleased. has anyone else had this kind of bad luck getting repairs? why can't the depot just repair the stuff properly? all of these back and forth repairs and replacements is costing Apple a lot more money than just fixing the thing properly in the first place would have. thanks for reading my rant, i feel a little better now

I totally sympathize with your problem. I bought a Mac Mini in December and an iBook in February.

With my iBook, it just randomly shuts off when you touch the battery. My mom bought it in February, but she didn't use it much so it kind of just sat around and I didn't really notice the problem...just figured I kept accidentally shutting it down because it was always when I left it for a couple minutes and picked it back up. Then my mom gave it to me and I started using it a lot. It turns out any time you touch the battery the right way when it's not plugged in, it just randomly shuts off. So in March, they replaced the logic board. When I came back after the repair, it did it again in the store, so they ordered a replacement battery. Like a week later, it started again, and then they replaced the battery enclosure. While the problem occurs less often, it still happens, but I've grown kind of complacent and generally stick to using it plugged in.

The Mac Mini had no problems until the sound became very loud and distorted with a very bad echo (even with external headphones or speakers) in early June. They replaced the logic board and it was fine for a few weeks, but then it happened again and I took it to be repaired again at a different location because it was closer. Then a few weeks later, no sound at all. Another logic board. So now my mini is on it's 4th logic board since early June. I should be getting it back today...hopefully I won't have any more problems. I've already spoke with a manager (who was very friendly and helpful) at one of the locations who said if I had any more problems after this repair she would review it for replacement.

The repairs are from 3 different locations based on where I'm taking it there from (home, work, my mom's house), and none of them seem to be able to fix either of them. It's very convenient that there are so many places is relatively close distance that I can take them to, but what good is it if they aren't able to fix it? And I feel like an idiot because here I am telling everyone how much better Macs are than PCs and here I'm having so many problems with the only two Macs I've ever had. The OS hasn't given me the slightest problem - I absolutely love it, and I've totally become a Mac snob. But I really don't have much faith in the hardware. I can't compare it to any other brands because I've always had custom built PCs before whose problems were mostly OS related, but if Apple hardware is so superior to other manufactured hardware, I'm afraid to imagine what a Dell or HP is like.

So yea, bottom line - you're not alone. And I'm usually REAL quick to blame other people instead of Apple, but it's not your fault and I totally feel for you.

[EdipisReks]

Originally Posted by ghporter

From most accounts, the inverter is one of the major culprits in causing the whine

it hasn't been for several months, as far as i can tell, as they had a new version of the inverter, sans issues, out very quickly.

Another potential problem is that the microcode (from Apple) for the processor erroneously causes the processor to switch to a very low power state whenever a "No Op" processor opcode is encountered-which happens at about 100 times a second whenever the machine is idle. It's much easier to replace the inverter than the mainboard.

except for the fact that they replaced the mainboard on my first macbook pro when i asked, which, magically, fixed the whine. unfortuntely, they broke it in the process. this time, i was told specifically that, once again, i would get the new mainboard. i know all about the cpu idle process problem, and the new mainboard fixes the issue because it gets rid of/fixes whatever component is oscillating when the CPU hits the L1 state. Dell and Lenovo fix the issue the same way, as it's not just limited to Apple's microcode. most of the early Core Duo laptops i've seen have the whine. this includes dozens, from the aforementioned companies, where i work (i'm a tech/dev at a university IT department).

The folks at Apple didn't "ignore" your problem-they tried to resolve it quickly and efficiently.

your perception of quickly and efficiently fixing an issue must be different than mine, as i don't consider breaking a computer multiple times while doing a fairly straight forward board swap to be quick or efficient.

Originally Posted by M2S 86

So yea, bottom line - you're not alone. And I'm usually REAL quick to blame other people instead of Apple, but it's not your fault and I totally feel for you.

thanks, man. i wouldn't be so bitter if they hadn't broken the machine so many times while trying to fix it.

[ghporter]

They can't just replace the mainboard every time a customer says that's what he wants-especially under warranty-because the vast majority of customers don't have a clue about what goes on inside the case of their computer.

The component that's oscillating is actually the CPU itself-what the mainboard change does is replace the hardware that tells it to shut down for a no-op situation. I'm not sure if it's a specific version of the processor itself or one of the support chips. When it's shut down and then turned back on, it undergoes a significant physical jolt caused by the transition from ON to OFF. And I spent almost 30 years as a bench technician and manager, by the way...

I meant in the technicians' supervisors' minds, not mine. I really do sympathize, but having been the guy on the bench having to fix problems that customers don't fully or even partially explain, I also sympathize with the technicians. If the customer says "I hear this noise" and the manual says "replace the inverter," then that's what you have to do.

I too feel that it's a major problem for a lot of people, and that Apple could have been a lot more upfront about it. But "Apple" is not a single object, but rather a bunch of people, most of whom are controlled by corporate policy. That means that they can't just do what the customer specifically asks, even if they know that's the correct way to fully fix the problem. Have a little sympathy for the people that actually do the work.

[EdipisReks]

Originally Posted by ghporter

The component that's oscillating is actually the CPU itself-what the mainboard change does is replace the hardware that tells it to shut down for a no-op situation. I'm not sure if it's a specific version of the processor itself or one of the support chips. When it's shut down and then turned back on, it undergoes a significant physical jolt caused by the transition from ON to OFF. And I spent almost 30 years as a bench technician and manager, by the way...

that is not my understanding of it, and i had a conversation with an Intel engineer over the issue. the Intel engineer told me it was actually a part of the voltage regulator adjacent to the CPU that was oscillating in time with the L1 idle process.

I meant in the technicians' supervisors' minds, not mine. I really do sympathize, but having been the guy on the bench having to fix problems that customers don't fully or even partially explain, I also sympathize with the technicians. If the customer says "I hear this noise" and the manual says "replace the inverter," then that's what you have to do.

well, that isn't what happened, as they were told in great detail what the issue was, and i was told that they would replace the logic board.

I too feel that it's a major problem for a lot of people, and that Apple could have been a lot more upfront about it. But "Apple" is not a single object, but rather a bunch of people, most of whom are controlled by corporate policy. That means that they can't just do what the customer specifically asks, even if they know that's the correct way to fully fix the problem. Have a little sympathy for the people that actually do the work.

but it is Apple. and the main problem isn't so much that they didn't fix the problem, when they said they would (though that is indeed part of it), but the fact that they broke my laptop three friggin' times. not fixing my MBP in the way they said they would was just icing on the cake, as it were.

[chipchen]

You keep mentioning that Apple broke your computer three times... but you never said how they broke it. Do you simply mean they sent it back in a state that was still "unfixed" in your opinion? Or do you mean they actually broke something, like inside, like physical damage?

Also, you keep bringing it up as if they never did anything about it. But, you got that MBP replaced. So they did treat you fairly and replace it for you. Unfortunately you got a second MPB with a whine, that's all. (Which by the way many of are living with the whine.) But you're still demanding perfection out of a first revision product, which by your own admission, many other manufacturers are dealing with the same issues.

You make it out to sound as if Apple is trying to get you. Like it's a master plan.

I think you should ask for a refund as I don't see how this MBP or another MBP would satisfy your expectations. You should wait a few revisions until they get the kinks out.

[skyman]

The MacBook Pros that are shipping now do NOT have the whine.

Apple had to replace my MacBook Pro four times before I got one without the whine. My current one is a week 29 build. In addition, it is no where near as hot as the last three.

Me thinks Apple has finally worked out all the bugs.

[Susan]

[QUOTE=skyman]

[snip]
....My current one is a week 29 build. I


How can you tell what build it is?

[chipchen]

serial number. third digit is the year. (most likely a 6 for 2006) and the forth and fifth represent the week in that year. (obviously 29 for 29th week.)

[EdipisReks]

well, i got the MacBook Pro back today (logicboards are back ordered, so it took quite a while). seems to have fixed the whine, unfortunately there is a scratch on my screen, so back to AppleCare it goes. gotta say, i'm not real happy right now.