[Avenir]

Saw this interesting article on slashdot... I didn't really think they caused all that many problems, but wow...

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...478068468.html

[Spheric Harlot]

You mean the use of cellphones on planes is NOT prohibited in the States!?

They fail to mention whether it's certain electronics like Bluetooth or WLAN, or more basic components. I do seem to recall being asked to switch off portable CD players during takeoff, too, though.

Anybody know specifics?

-s*

[Avenir]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
You mean the use of cellphones on planes is NOT prohibited in the States!?

They fail to mention whether it's certain electronics like Bluetooth or WLAN, or more basic components. I do seem to recall being asked to switch off portable CD players during takeoff, too, though.

Anybody know specifics?

-s*

Cell phones are prohibited in the States once the outer doors close (98% of the flight, except for that one point midair when the need more fresh air ), and are not allowed at all during the flight, neither are radios or anything else that transmits. But everything else. I imagine a LAN with airport cards would be out of the question? When we flew to Italy, the wouldn't let us run ANYTHING at all, not even discmans during the flight... I just thought they were being stupid.

[signal68]

They are being stupid. In the old days, planes had avionics that were extremely sensative to that type of stuff. Today, on any modern airliner, it isn't going to do a damn thing. I always turn my discman on right before takeoff, and stuff it into my bag just to feel like I'm sticking it to them. How does a DISCMAN transmit?! IT DOESNT! They don't ask people to turn off their WATCHES do they? Their pacemakers? They're hearing aids? Etc?!

Its a load of crap, use whatever you want.

- Ca$h

[Diggory Laycock]

All electronic devices transmit RF - just not very much.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by signal68:
They are being stupid. In the old days, planes had avionics that were extremely sensative to that type of stuff. Today, on any modern airliner, it isn't going to do a damn thing. I always turn my discman on right before takeoff, and stuff it into my bag just to feel like I'm sticking it to them. How does a DISCMAN transmit?! IT DOESNT! They don't ask people to turn off their WATCHES do they? Their pacemakers? They're hearing aids? Etc?!

Its a load of crap, use whatever you want.

Unless you have an EE degree, you are (big surprise) an ignorant, spoiled, arrogant, and IRRESPONSIBLE prick.

I'd venture you know NOTHING about avionics equipment, about emissions emanating from laser equipment, or the reasoning behind these things.

In fact, it would seem that you haven't even read the article.

Now, can anybody answer my question?

-s*

[signal68]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Unless you have an EE degree, you are (big surprise) an ignorant, spoiled, arrogant, and IRRESPONSIBLE prick.

I'd venture you know NOTHING about avionics equipment, about emissions emanating from laser equipment, or the reasoning behind these things.

In fact, it would seem that you haven't even read the article.

Now, can anybody answer my question?

-s*

Fine, believe everything you read. FYI, its still a load of ****.

OMG! BUT THERE WAS THAT ONE TIME WHEN MY CD PLAYER CAUSED THE PLANE TO DROP 100 FT! OMG! or.... it just would have done that anyway.

Tell you what, if you can explain HOW an electronic dictionary could possibly cause what they said it did, you'll get my vote. I want what piece of equipment it affected, where that piece of equipment was, how it was affected, and why.

Til then, I'm telling you, IT IS A LOAD OF CRAP. It's an old wive's tale, and its no surprise that this article is from AUSTRAILIA. Is it from Britian? USA? Japan? A technologically advanced country? NO!

Anyway.

- Ca$h

[benb]

Originally posted by signal68:
Fine, believe everything you read. FYI, its still a load of ****.

No, this post is a load of ****.

[vod[k]a]

I heard something a little different. A pilot told me that cell phones are prohibited during flight because the phones would be within range of multiple towers, and this causes problems (for your cell phone provider!).

[macvillage.net]

I've also spoken to a commercial pilot before. One whose worked for a few airlines over his 30 year career, and piloted 747's, 767's, and 777's among other planes.

According to him, there is no doubt in his mind that devices from a CD player, to a laptop can cause problems. It's happened to him, and to many others that he knows.

And the FCC, and FAA have been researching this for years Ca$h. The disagreement is between the agencies the airliners, and the manufacturers. What is acceptable. Each plane is different. How to generate a rule that is safe, yet doesn't hinder the passenger more than necessary. And more importantly, how to enforce it. Anyone can accidentally have a CB radio on in their handluggage. How do you check?

If they create a regulation, they have to enforce it. Sadly, they don't have the means to do so as of yet. And lately, terrorism is a bigger threat than this.

There is no doubt devices cause interferance.

Btw: If you are found with an electronic device causing problems, you are breaking the law. All devices have the following printed on them:

This device complies with Part 15 of the FCC Rules. Operation is subject to the following two conditions. 1. This device may not cause harmful interference and 2. This device must accept any interferance recieved, including interference that may cause undesired operation.
....

If your device causes harmful interferance, and you continue to operate it, you are responsible. This happened a while back involving some idiot radio lover, and a 9/11 operation center.


And you know your responsible... since they warn you when you board the plane. There are signs in every terminal. By FCC regulations the flight attendants must ask you to turn off all electronic devices.

Note that's an FCC regulation, not FAA. FCC is responsible for enforcement.

[benb]

Originally posted by vod[k]a:
I heard something a little different. A pilot told me that cell phones are prohibited during flight because the phones would be within range of multiple towers, and this causes problems (for your cell phone provider!).

I have heard that on a plane your are traveling too fast for the handshaking to occur at the start of a call; you are out of range of the tower you started the call on before the handshaking finishes. And that handshaking, unlike the call, cannot be passed on to a different tower.

But, I have no real knowledge of this. Don't take this as fact.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by signal68:
Fine, believe everything you read. FYI, its still a load of ****.

Earth calling stupid brat:

get out of orbit, sucker, and you may note that I WAS ASKING A ****ING QUESTION.

You clearly know ****-ALL about the subject, so quit shitting around like some scientific know-it-all, because all you're doing is exposing your own ignorance of the matter.

Just because YOU'VE decided that YOUR equipment can't possibly have any effect, doesn't mean that this is true, or that it won't.

I suggest you stick to turn signals.

-s*

[residentEvil]

ah, but they DO allow you to use their cell phones, with a credit card. there are dozens in the back of headrests and one by the toilets.

how do those work, but not fall under the other rules for equipment?

the airline is in control and probably routes that call thru their communication system. so they do provide alternatives for making phone calls. i didn't see free/cheap, i said alternatives.

as for laptop and music players all the flights i have been on in the last 2 years (5 flights) have all allowed once in air. they didn't like that i had a gps running though, and asked to turn it off. i did.

movie watching, music listening, etc were all acceptable on those flights (all northwest, too, if that makes a difference for others who have different experiences)

[Chemmy]

Originally posted by vod[k]a:
I heard something a little different. A pilot told me that cell phones are prohibited during flight because the phones would be within range of multiple towers, and this causes problems (for your cell phone provider!).

This is the correct answer. If people made cell phone calls from airplanes, they would pass over tons of towers every minute. Each of those towers would hold a spot for their call.

This would cripple our cell phone networks.

[Stradlater]

Wally: "Remember to turn your laptop on during the flight!"
PHB: "I thought I was supposed to turn it off."
Wally: "That's ridiculous, then how would they transfer control to you if the plane was about to crash?"

In flight:
Crew: "For God's sake, turn it off!!"
PHB: "Don't worry, I'll land this baby. I can do that from Excel, right?"

[Spheric Harlot]

[whoops]

[scaught]

heres a thread from the ibook forum where a couple people who are actual pilots responded to some queries.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ighlight=plane

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by residentEvil:
ah, but they DO allow you to use their cell phones, with a credit card. there are dozens in the back of headrests and one by the toilets.

how do those work, but not fall under the other rules for equipment?

the airline is in control and probably routes that call thru their communication system. so they do provide alternatives for making phone calls. i didn't see free/cheap, i said alternatives.

as for laptop and music players all the flights i have been on in the last 2 years (5 flights) have all allowed once in air. they didn't like that i had a gps running though, and asked to turn it off. i did.

movie watching, music listening, etc were all acceptable on those flights (all northwest, too, if that makes a difference for others who have different experiences)

What they have aren't really "cell phones". They are more like sat. phones.

They don't connect to a cell tower, but either a Sat. or a groundlink (depending on the technology, I think most are Sat. now).

Unlike cell phones, it's one persisitant contact, regardless of where you are in the world. It's also normally a secured connection, and is emitted from outside the cabin like other communications equipment aboard the plane. This way it doesn't cause interferance with equipment inside the plane.

The plane itself is shielded a bit to help reduce the chances of external interference. For example other equipment near a runway. And it's own equipment.

[RAzaRazor]

The thing about airplanes is that they have miles of wiring running along the fuselage. The wires are 2 feet over your head, and right beside you, and below you. It's all streched out like perfect little antennas, so it can easily receive the signal from all your little electronic devices.

All these EM waves hitting the wiring induce small electric currents. (That's how a cordless Wacom stylus works, by the way.)
If the wires that are getting the stray voltage are for a relatively sensitive sensor or indicator, that can be enough to give a false indication or reading. Now imagine that it's the left outboard aileron hydraulic up actuator that is getting the voltage. An uncommanded control surface movement is bad, mmmmmkay?

I know this is all very unlikely, but the unlikely events have to be planned for so you can get to Decatur without spilling your bloody mary onto your precious Dockers Kakhis. The plane doing a sudden snap roll would be bad for everyone.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by scaught:
heres a thread from the ibook forum where a couple people who are actual pilots responded to some queries.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...ighlight=plane

Thank you for that!

(real, qualified answers!)

-s*

[signal68]

Originally posted by residentEvil:
as for laptop and music players all the flights i have been on in the last 2 years (5 flights) have all allowed once in air. they didn't like that i had a gps running though, and asked to turn it off. i did.

movie watching, music listening, etc were all acceptable on those flights (all northwest, too, if that makes a difference for others who have different experiences)

Ding ding. They let you use most anything once you're in the air. Why?!?! Is the plane somehow SHIELDED when its up in the air, BUT NOT when it's taking off? That's just ludicrous.

Use whatever electronic device you want, its not going to make a damn difference. Hell, some of the lighting ON the planes are FLOURESCENTS, and if THOSE aren't responsible for a shitload of interference, I don't know what is.

- Rob

[signal68]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Thank you for that!

(real, qualified answers!)

-s*

I don't see how any of it was qualified or backed up to any extent.

Here are some things for you to ponder:

1. There is interference no matter where you are in the world.
2. Why is it that DURING the flight, you can turn on all these gizmos, but during takeoff and landing you cannot?
3. The planes lighting system sometimes has flourescents.... ever put a TV near a flourescent? THATS interference. A CD player or a palm pilot or a gameboy won't produce nearly as much as that.
4. Do we have to turn off our watches? Pacemakers? Hearing aids?

Like I said, this WAS a problem on OLDER airplanes; one of my dad's friends is an ex commercial airline pilot. He explained how it used to be a problem because everything was more sensative to that type of thing, but in todays planes 'it is a non issue'.

- Ca$h

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by signal68:
Like I said, this WAS a problem on OLDER airplanes; one of my dad's friends is an ex commercial airline pilot. He explained how it used to be a problem because everything was more sensative to that type of thing, but in todays planes 'it is a non issue'.

How platitudinous... what old airplanes do you mean? I don't think commercial planes have changed much in recent decades.

(I don't claim to be the authority on such matters, but I'm not sure who to believe here)

[NYCFarmboy]

I wish there were international guidelines on flying with laptops. If it does really cause problem I would absolutely agree that laptops should not be used.

However I've never heard on source in the states ever say that laptops have caused a problem.

In the states you can fly and play a DVD player and its not a problem.

In Brasil, an aeromoca (literally translated as "airgirl"..the portugues term for Stewardess) will ask you if you are running a CD or a DVD player and ask you to shut it down immediately. But you can run your computer.. just can't play a DVD on it.

I always turn off my airport (wifi) when I'm flying as well, no matter where I'm at.

[icruise]

Considering that the vast majority of problems (ie crashes) happen during either take-off or landing, it seem to me that turning off your discman for the last 10 or 15 minutes of the flight might not be a bad idea. Even if there was only the tiniest percentage of a chance that it would cause problems. Is it really that much of a hardship?

Also keep in mind that while most electronic equipment might be safe, a malfunctioning or badly designed piece of equipment could very well cause problems.

[Mars_Attacks]

I fly older twin propeller piston planes, and laptops and cellphones will screw with the VOR's and the ADF.
By older I mean late 70's early 80's Beeech Barons and Dutchesses.

Just what I need on an IFR approach on the localizer and the needles bury themselves just so some passenger can call for a ****ing rental car.

[vod[k]a]

please shut up cash! takeoff and landing are the most dangerous times during a flight, and they ask you turn off your electronic equipment for a reason. do you think you know everything?

[RAzaRazor]

Originally posted by signal68:
2. Why is it that DURING the flight, you can turn on all these gizmos, but during takeoff and landing you cannot?
- Ca$h

The answer is Altitude, and Margin of Error.

Takeoff and Landing is obviously the most dangerous parts of any flight. The aircraft is going slow, and it's close to the ground. Any deviation can cause a crash. There is no room for the pilot to get out of a bad situation when you only have 100 feet of room available under your 200 foot long aircraft that is moving just above stall speed. Interference can cause screw with the Instrument Landing System. It's bad when the computer suddenly thinks the runway is 50 feet to the left, and lines the plane up for it.

When problems happens at 35,000 feet, there is a lot of room to correct the situation. There is NO margin for error during takeoff and landing, and it's just not worth the risk.

Ca$h, you are always bitching about how other peoples actions can put you in a bad situation. Why do you believe that you are not doing the same thing to others?
If landing a 200,000+ pound plane with hundreds of people on board in a fog requires that you turn off your CD player for 10 minutes to add to the margin of safety, I think that's a fair trade off.
If someone else on a plane refused to turn off their electronics, you would be bitching up a storm on the forums the second you got home.

[vod[k]a]

^_^ What he said.

[benb]

Originally posted by RAzaRazor:
Ca$h, you are always bitching about how other peoples actions can put you in a bad situation. Why do you believe that you are not doing the same thing to others?
If landing a 200,000+ pound plane with hundreds of people on board in a fog requires that you turn off your CD player for 10 minutes to add to the margin of safety, I think that's a fair trade off.
If someone else on a plane refused to turn off their electronics, you would be bitching up a storm on the forums the second you got home.

Exactly. And my word, you can get to Europe in 6 hours! Would it kill you to be bored for 6 freakin' hours if the FCC said no electronics on the plane? Better than 3 days on a crappy ship.

Seriously, people are so freaking impatient. You can't talk to everybody you know for 6 to 10 hours! So what. During that time you are travelling 1/4 of the way around the world.

[benb]

Ironical timiing, huh?

http://slashdot.org/articles/03/09/1...id=137&tid=184

[RAzaRazor]

No, half the threads in the lounge come from topics on Slashdot.

[signal68]

Originally posted by RAzaRazor:
The answer is Altitude, and Margin of Error.

Takeoff and Landing is obviously the most dangerous parts of any flight. The aircraft is going slow, and it's close to the ground.

EXACTLY! ITS CLOSE TO THE GROUND! Where do you think the MOST electronic interference is?! CLOSE TO THE GROUND! THere's shitloads of electronics all over the place! And you think a discman is going to cause the plane to f*ck up?!

HOWWWW?!?!?!?!?! PLEASE EXPLAIN!!!! Someone has said "yeah, but the input for a rear vertical stabilizor might be off by 5% because of your CD player... HOW?!?!?! IT WILL NOT HAPPEN! And if it does, its probably happening due to something else! Think about it. Which causes more interference... FLOURESCENT LIGHTING...or... a CD player. Which is it?!

If landing a 200,000+ pound plane with hundreds of people on board in a fog requires that you turn off your CD player for 10 minutes to add to the margin of safety, I think that's a fair trade off.

Me too. However, I don't believe playing a gameboy or something like that will make any f*cking difference whatsover.

If someone else on a plane refused to turn off their electronics, you would be bitching up a storm on the forums the second you got home.

Actually I wouldn't. I've been to hawaii 3 times, japan once, canada, mexico, and flown to CO, CA, AZ, VA, RI, and EVERY TIME I've turned on whatever electronic device I've had with me, just because I know it won't do a damn thing. And guess what?! I"M STILL HERE! I"M ALIVE!

- Ca$h

PS: I'd much rather fly in a 747 full of running PCs, stereos, DVD players, and PS2s (no gamecubes, thanks) than a plane with a screaming infant.

[benb]

Originally posted by signal68:
Which causes more interference... FLOURESCENT LIGHTING...or... a CD player. Which is it?!

Think about it: Do you really think that the plane leaves the ground without the interference from every device onboard catalogued and tested? Do you really think the lights are unshielded? Really?

[signal68]

Just to clarify, I would NOT use a cellphone, as those are designed to transmit. Everything else goes in my opinion...and a GPS receiver?! PLEASE! Garmin even makes some GPS's for planes! All its doing is recieving a signal. This is what happens when you get a lot of people who don't know anything about electronics.

- Ca$h

[icruise]

Originally posted by signal68:
I've been to hawaii 3 times, japan once, canada, mexico, and flown to CO, CA, AZ, VA, RI, and EVERY TIME I've turned on whatever electronic device I've had with me, just because I know it won't do a damn thing. And guess what?! I"M STILL HERE! I"M ALIVE!

- Ca$h

Just our luck, huh? I just hope I never have to fly with you...

[signal68]

Originally posted by Icruise:
Just our luck, huh? I just hope I never have to fly with you...

Japan eh? I stayed in Tokyo for 1.5 weeks and Nara for one. Nice place you have there. One thing I don't understand: Why don't you guys have spiders?!?! Seriously, I didn't see one cobweb the entire time I was over there, and I noticed that while I was there so I specifically looked for cobwebs in old nooks and crannies. I went down to the south coast, and all over the place. I never saw a spider. WTF?

- Ca$h

[signal68]

The reason this 'myth' still exists is because of this simple scenario. Plane crashes. Media turns to Boeing. "wasn't our fault, it must have been poor maintenence.". Media turns to airline company "wasn't our fault, must have been the pilot". Media turns to pilot "Wasn't our fault, must have been the interference caused by the passengers electronics".



Go ahead. Be daring. NExt time you fly somewhere, turn on your electronic gizmos. NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.

- Ca$h

[icruise]

Why don't you guys have spiders?!?!?!

You must not have been looking in the right place. I've seen the biggest spiders in my life in Japan -- several the size of an adult's hand with fingers spread. Seriously scary.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by signal68:
EXACTLY! ITS CLOSE TO THE GROUND! Where do you think the MOST electronic interference is?! CLOSE TO THE GROUND! THere's shitloads of electronics all over the place! And you think a discman is going to cause the plane to f*ck up?!

The outside of the plane has to an extent shielding. That's where communication equipment is (several antennas among other apparatus). It's designed for that.

Internal components are not designed to accept it. Shielding several miles worth of cable, and all the electronic flight systems from inside interference is just crazy. Imagine how much more a plane would cost. And the airlines would pass that right on.

Flying gets cheaper when planes, get lighter and cheaper. All that shielding has weight too. Not to mention space.

HOWWWW?!?!?!?!?! PLEASE EXPLAIN!!!! Someone has said "yeah, but the input for a rear vertical stabilizor might be off by 5% because of your CD player... HOW?!?!?! IT WILL NOT HAPPEN! And if it does, its probably happening due to something else! Think about it. Which causes more interference... FLOURESCENT LIGHTING...or... a CD player. Which is it?!

Florescent lighting is turned off during takeoff and landing as per FAA regulations. That's why the lights dim. Special shielded lighting remains illuminated.

Have you ever flown before?

Me too. However, I don't believe playing a gameboy or something like that will make any f*cking difference whatsover.

Actually I wouldn't. I've been to hawaii 3 times, japan once, canada, mexico, and flown to CO, CA, AZ, VA, RI, and EVERY TIME I've turned on whatever electronic device I've had with me, just because I know it won't do a damn thing. And guess what?! I"M STILL HERE! I"M ALIVE!

- Ca$h

PS: I'd much rather fly in a 747 full of running PCs, stereos, DVD players, and PS2s (no gamecubes, thanks) than a plane with a screaming infant.

It has in the past, and data continues to back it up.

Many pilots and fight crews have experienced this problem as well. Can you account for why science and 20+ years of research are all wrong?

I'd perfer you in that plane than a screaming infant also. At least that Infant will grow up.

[signal68]

Originally posted by macvillage.net:
Florescent lighting is turned off during takeoff and landing as per FAA regulations. That's why the lights dim. Special shielded lighting remains illuminated.

Have you ever flown before?

Actually, I hadn't noticed that before. +1 to you.

- Rob

[vod[k]a]

For a married man, Cash, you sure are weird. Time to grow up! When I get married (albeit, to a russian mail-order bride) I hope I have better things to do than make a dumbass of myself on the internet.

[iT4c0]

maybe I dont know C$sh this guy much, but his statement sure bothers me a lot. grow up cash and spend more time with your wife or something. your wedding pics were really nice. I can't believe a person like you can be an asshole.

[Jim Paradise]

Originally posted by signal68:


Me too. However, I don't believe playing a gameboy or something like that will make any f*cking difference whatsover.

And some people think that they can drive without using turn signals all the time.

[macvillage.net]

Originally posted by iT4c0:
maybe I dont know C$sh this guy much, but his statement sure bothers me a lot. grow up cash and spend more time with your wife or something. your wedding pics were really nice. I can't believe a person like you can be an asshole.

Welcome to MacNN. Your statements now make you a member.

[signal68]

Still, so they dim the lights. I'd like to see a scientific study done THAT PROVES a gameboy can cause the avionics to screw up. Our watches are emitting electronic interference, but we don't turn them off.

- Ca$h

[signal68]

Originally posted by iT4c0:
maybe I dont know C$sh this guy much, but his statement sure bothers me a lot. grow up cash and spend more time with your wife or something. your wedding pics were really nice. I can't believe a person like you can be an asshole.

I have an opinion about everything. If someone proves me wrong (good point about the dimming of thelights, but I'm still not convinced), then I'll change my opinion, and be a smarter person. If nobody can prove me wrong, and the only things I see strengthen my opinion, then I'm a smarter person. My philosophy is pick a side, see if anyone can beat it. If they can, cool. If they can't, cool. Staying in the middle sucks.

- Rob

[Link]

Originally posted by signal68:
I don't see how any of it was qualified or backed up to any extent.

Here are some things for you to ponder:

1. There is interference no matter where you are in the world.
2. Why is it that DURING the flight, you can turn on all these gizmos, but during takeoff and landing you cannot?
3. The planes lighting system sometimes has flourescents.... ever put a TV near a flourescent? THATS interference. A CD player or a palm pilot or a gameboy won't produce nearly as much as that.
4. Do we have to turn off our watches? Pacemakers? Hearing aids?

Like I said, this WAS a problem on OLDER airplanes; one of my dad's friends is an ex commercial airline pilot. He explained how it used to be a problem because everything was more sensative to that type of thing, but in todays planes 'it is a non issue'.

- Ca$h

Wow you've reached a new level of stupidity.. you sure your turn signals aren't interfering with your brain?

Flourescent lights in planes are likely shielded from the wiring, they have also been tested with the company that sold the planes to the company that runs them, thus there should be no 'unexpected' problems.

2. external interference is different from internal interference. Try setting a cellphone inside a CRT monitor's case (or where there's no shielding) and see what happens... while transmitting a call. I guarantee it'll generate much more interference

3. watches and other small electronics are acceptable as they introduce almost no risk of any problems, a peacemaker could cause problems, but it's a health/safety device and thus worth the risk, not to mention they're shielded EXTREMELY well for interference (the cellphone for example causes problems with peacemakers).

4. I know my replies are not numbered to match your questions, anywho the majority of planes in operation today are at least 10-20 years old. 20 years ago, the cellphone was still an incredibly new device, and while these planes have been retrofitted, it only helps prove your point wrong.

Basically it's all prepared for, but even then, it's usually not worth the risk, and cellphones traditionally will not work in the air to begin with.

In the US, you can be arrested for using a cellphone in an airplane as well (at least this is what I've heard), and breaking the rules, playing a CD player, etc, will get you in some pretty nasty trouble.

[ThinkInsane]

The problem is, Robert, that as far as you are concerned, you are never wrong. I've never once seen you concede a point, no matter how many reasoned, researched points people post. Because you decide that personal electronics don't cause interference, it doesn't give you the right to jeopardize anyone else, even if the chances are near nil there will be a problem. It's not your right to do that.

You remind me of people using cell phones in hospitals. You politely remind them that they aren't allowed as they cause interference with medical equipment. And they politely roll their eyes and start blathering on about how it's a digital phone and doesn't cause any harm. In the mean time, the telemetry packs in the area are going apeshit because of the interference caused by the phone.

Sometimes you just have to take it on faith that you don't know everything, that other people may very well be right, and if you playing your gameboy is jeopardizing the safety and well being of others, then you need to put it away for the ten minutes they ask. To do anything else is simply rude, obnoxious and unnecessary behavior that one would expect from a child, not a grown man with a wife and a future to look forward to.

You throw a tantrum and wish people dead over a pet peeve like turn signals, but don't think twice about the harm your ignorance could cause literally hundreds of people for no other reason than to think you are smarter than everyone else.

[RAzaRazor]

Originally posted by signal68:
EXACTLY! ITS CLOSE TO THE GROUND! Where do you think the MOST electronic interference is?! CLOSE TO THE GROUND! THere's shitloads of electronics all over the place! And you think a discman is going to cause the plane to f*ck up?!

HOWWWW?!?!?!?!?! PLEASE EXPLAIN!!!! Someone has said "yeah, but the input for a rear vertical stabilizor might be off by 5% because of your CD player... HOW?!?!?! IT WILL NOT HAPPEN! And if it does, its probably happening due to something else! Think about it. Which causes more interference... FLOURESCENT LIGHTING...or... a CD player. Which is it?

Christ you are stupid. Do you know what a Faraday cage is?
Do you know what a big tube of aluminum acts like? A faraday cage!

The skin of the aircraft itself blocks out outside EM waves. The windows are the only place where waves could get in, but the windows are small enough to block most signals below 1GHz because the wavelength of the signal is bigger than the window!

And why the hell do you think that EM waves only travel along the ground? They spread out in a sphere, bounded by the earth below, and eventually they bounce around in the ionosphere, and most waves make it out to space. If a signal (let's say a local TV station) can be seen 10 miles away on the ground, you can sure as hell bet that it is just as strong 10 miles straight up.

You have pilots here telling you it happens, you have scientific reasoning of why it happens, you have every other person on this thread telling you it happens, yet you persist!
I don't want you to admit that you are wrong, because that will never happen, but PLEASE just shut up about things you have zero knowledge of. The more you post, the more ignorance you expose to the world.