[MrsLarry]

Maybe I've just been brainwashed, maybe their marketing folks have got me by the you know what, but I had a realization on the drive to work this morning. It's not just an Operating System, it's a lifestyle. When I tell people I'm a graphic designer I usually get "Oh, that's why you use a mac".

Well, yes and no. I bought a mac in college, because that's what we were learning on. I kept a mac all this time because it's a beautiful. I mean, hey, I don't need to tell you folks. It's intuitive, and it works, and it's lovely.

I want an iPhone. My Windows Mobile Phone is nice, and it does what I need it to do, but, hello integration!! I'm just waiting for some better (read 'less expensive') data plans, and then I make my move.

I can't imagine, even years from now, just saying... "Whatever, we'll just get a Dell from [Big Box Retailer]" It would just seem wrong.

[Paco500]

I'd like to think it's a completely practical choice with me, but I bought a PB 5300 "fireball." So maybe it is religion.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

I'd like to think it's a completely practical choice with me, but I bought a PB 5300 "fireball." So maybe it is religion.

Was that your burning bush moment? Did you hear Steve speak to you?

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

Was that your burning bush moment?

I was never foolish enough to hold it directly on my lap.

[Doofy]

Yes. Doof won't work creatively with people who use computers which aren't Macs. If they can't be arsed with getting out of the Windows prison (and aren't prepared to spend enough money to do so) then they simply aren't creative enough.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Yes. Doof won't work creatively with people who use computers which aren't Macs. If they can't be arsed with getting out of the Windows prison (and aren't prepared to spend enough money to do so) then they simply aren't creative enough.

What if they use an SGI workstation?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

What if they use an SGI workstation?

You forgot to phrase your question in the third person.

[The Final Dakar]

Jimmy likes Elaine.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

What if they use an SGI workstation?

I'm not aware of any musical uses for an SGI workstation.

[Eriamjh]

My OS does not define me. My car does that.

[sek929]

I'm running both as we speak, Windows has it's place but I've had to many 'nuke and pave' moments with it to ever trust it as my main OS. The functionality and, to use a cliché, the 'it just works' aspect will always make me pay a premium for the Mac.

In the days when I started (Win 95, MacOS 7.6) both crashed fairly often but the Mac always bounced back, I can't count how many times a forced powering off of a Windows machine sent it into a tailspin.

I'm looking forward to using Win7, as I quite enjoy XP as an OS.....haven't used Vista nearly as much, but it tends to fight me tooth and nail with everything I do. Comparing Leopard to Vista is pretty embarrassing for Microsoft IMO.

[besson3c]

I use a Mac because it allows me to be productive. If another option were to emerge that I feel would make me more productive, I'd switch. I don't feel some sort of compelling loyalty to Apple as a company, nor do I associate myself as a person with a Mac. Then again, I spend a considerable amount of time managing Linux/Unix servers.

Just offering an alternative profile to the mix...

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

What if they use an SGI workstation?

That was cool… a decade ago. The new Octane III is as ugly as any cheap PC whereas the truly SGIs were incredibly beautiful, and needless to say it can't handle IRIX, which development was firstly slowed and then dropped. I have had a cute O2 and two Octane 2 workstations. UI-wise, IRIX looked dated, more than Windows !!, but that was not its point, using them just made you think it couldn't get any better than that.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

People that can't use ANY tool put in front of them for a given job aren't creative enough. And sorry, if an OS is a lifestyle to someone- that person's life is severely lacking.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

People that can't use ANY tool put in front of them for a given job aren't creative enough.

Now there's a man who's never tried to knock a wall down with a spoon.

[MrsLarry]

Wow, first my thread gets an OT hijacking, then I get accused of having no life. Apparently no one ever told these people "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all"

Isn't this The Lounge? "The House that Shenanigans built"? Geez. I never said the OS defines me. Or that I couldn't work on any other platform. I just choose not to.

Lighten up, people! Let's not take ourselves so seriously. Just a little exaggeration in the name of silly internet banter.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Now there's a man who's never tried to knock a wall down with a spoon.

Nope. Right tool for the right job. It's the type of nitwit that wouldn't know their way around the correct tool for knocking a wall down or any other given task and insist on using the wrong one because that's all they know that'd be the least valuable member of any creative team.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by MrsLarry 

Lighten up, people! Let's not take ourselves so seriously. Just a little exaggeration in the name of silly internet banter.

Don't get your panties in a wad. An OS is NOT a lifestyle.. it's an OS.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

People that can't use ANY tool put in front of them for a given job aren't creative enough. And sorry, if an OS is a lifestyle to someone- that person's life is severely lacking.

Seconded

[MrsLarry]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Don't get your panties in a wad.

lame. offensive. over it. over you.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Nope. Right tool for the right job. It's the type of nitwit that wouldn't know their way around the correct tool for knocking a wall down or any other given task and insist on using the wrong one because that's all they know that'd be the least valuable member of any creative team.

Uh huh. And if someone can't be arsed with giving me files in Logic or DP format (neither of which is available for anything other than Mac), then they ain't using the correct tool for the job and will be told to FO.

[besson3c]

What if they work for the IRS?

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Uh huh. And if someone can't be arsed with giving me files in Logic or DP format (neither of which is available for anything other than Mac), then they ain't using the correct tool for the job and will be told to FO.

Well that's your prerogative if your an employer. Where I work, and in my own business, some pansy who couldn't use say, eyeon Fusion, because their dainty little tastes put it outside some silly OS comfort-zone they have where they refuse to learn anything else, wouldn't be hired in the first place. Being so limited by an OS choice (worse, if they think it's a lifestyle) doesn't put one among the most talented or creative of people out there.

[MrsLarry]

I'll work for you, Doofy. I'm good at what I do. Plus, as an added bonus, I don't make asinine assumptions about people I don't know.

[shifuimam]

Nah, it's just an OS.

But you knew that already. At least, coming from me.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

What if they work for the IRS?

Then I'm pretty sure Doofy will tell them to **** off.

[Eriamjh]

My panties do not define my lifestyle.

Wait, what?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Then I'm pretty sure Doofy will tell them to **** off.

Nah. I can safely ignore the IRS.

[mattyb]

My day to day usage : UNIX/Linux on the servers, Windows XP as workday client OS and OS X as home OS. I've also touched VMS, MVS (aka OS360, OS390 and now z/OS), AS/400 and some bizarre UNIXes.

My opinions : Oracle databases run better on Solaris than AIX. AIX has better management tools. Windows has all the games. Linux is easy to script for, run, manage and configure. It runs on more architectures than most people know exists. z/OS is the most secure operating system on the market. It easy to loose your mind trying to setup/maintain proper security on Windows with SQL Server and AD. OS X is easier to maintain as a 'home' OS. The Xbox 360 has better games than the PS2/3 or Wii. Each operating system has its pros and cons.

[osiris]

Jimmy likes Apple computers and OS X. Jimmy's getting work done without the hassles usually involved with a Windows machine. Jimmy's happy.

[The Final Dakar]

I have sex with a Leopard Disc every night.

[osiris]

That little hole on the disc appears about right for that - at least in your case.

[Laminar]

[kelso burn gif]

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by osiris 

That little hole on the disc appears about right for that - at least in your case.

Yes, that's what I was implying.

[sek929]

Recently I was asked by a good friend what kind of computer he should get. Light use, some math apps. He was looking at an HP for 300 bucks, or a refurb MacBook for around $900. At triple the cost he would get 2 less GB of RAM and a slightly smaller HDD.

I told him if he was more familiar with Windows (which he is) then he might as well get the HP. That's when my other friend, who is a recent Mac switcher, chimed in and said that once you use your Mac for a while you can't imagine going back.

While I understand this sentiment I feel that a regular computer user doesn't need to pay triple for a better OS, there I said it. I love Mac OS X through and through, but I don't think it should carry such a premium. I'm happy paying for it, but I've been a Mac user since the beginning of my computer career, I wouldn't feel right suggesting a computer that's so much more expensive with little visible benefits to the consumer.

Oh yeah, the Mac switcher friend (who was enamored with his purchase since day one) is chugging away on a 1.42GHz G4 iBook, a machine easily out-classed by even the cheapest Netbook.

What reasons are there for the MacBook being so much more expensive? They both had a C2D at around 2.16GHz, 15" displays at the same resolution, and the HP had more connectivity and more RAM standard. Not to mention the HP was brand new and the MacBook was a refurb.

If Windows 7 really knocks my socks off I might have to re-think my alliance to the Mac platform for my next purchase. Back when a decent Mac tower was under 2 grand it made sense, but now.....I don't know.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I wouldn't feel right suggesting a computer that's so much more expensive with little visible benefits to the consumer.

It ain't the visible benefits though, is it? It's the invisible ones... the ones you don't find out about until you've used a Mac for a while then had to go back to Windows.

[sek929]

Well I know that, that's why I'm sitting in front of a 1000 dollar refurbished iMac

Plus If I suggest a Mac and they buy it, then guess who gets to help them use the damn thing?

The only major thing I can tell people that is instantly recognizable as a plus for the Mac platform is that I've never, at any time, had to re-install a Macintosh Operating System. In the past month I've re-installed Windows XP on three computers, in my whole life I've probably sat through that hideous blue installation screen about a hundred f**king times.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Plus If I suggest a Mac and they buy it, then guess who gets to help them use the damn thing?

The only major thing I can tell people that is instantly recognizable as a plus for the Mac platform is that I've never, at any time, had to re-install a Macintosh Operating System.

Heh. Had a complete malechicken of a guitarist wanting a computer for recording. I said "Mac". So he did. And managed to screw it up (Logic's entire completeness installed into his ~Library for some reason). One Sunday I talked him through installing his OS no less than five times. As soon as he'd got a fresh install each time he was doing things like dragging the QT app to the trash and emptying. Took me all my strength to remain composed... ...until the fifth time, when I broke. And ended up roaring with laughter down the phone for about a half hour.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Yes, that's what I was implying.

You mean, you put your penis in the hole in the DVD?

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Heh. Had a complete malechicken of a guitarist wanting a computer for recording. I said "Mac". So he did. And managed to screw it up (Logic's entire completeness installed into his ~Library for some reason). One Sunday I talked him through installing his OS no less than five times. As soon as he'd got a fresh install each time he was doing things like dragging the QT app to the trash and emptying. Took me all my strength to remain composed... ...until the fifth time, when I broke. And ended up roaring with laughter down the phone for about a half hour.

That's pretty funny - I have a friend with similar skills. He can take a brand new machine and render it practically useless in matter of hours.

Some people have a knack for such things. What's surprising is that OS X is quite forgiving - but still no match for the 'quick to trash key components of my operating system' personality.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Recently I was asked by a good friend what kind of computer he should get. Light use, some math apps. He was looking at an HP for 300 bucks, or a refurb MacBook for around $900. At triple the cost he would get 2 less GB of RAM and a slightly smaller HDD.

I told him if he was more familiar with Windows (which he is) then he might as well get the HP. That's when my other friend, who is a recent Mac switcher, chimed in and said that once you use your Mac for a while you can't imagine going back.

While I understand this sentiment I feel that a regular computer user doesn't need to pay triple for a better OS, there I said it. I love Mac OS X through and through, but I don't think it should carry such a premium. I'm happy paying for it, but I've been a Mac user since the beginning of my computer career, I wouldn't feel right suggesting a computer that's so much more expensive with little visible benefits to the consumer.

Oh yeah, the Mac switcher friend (who was enamored with his purchase since day one) is chugging away on a 1.42GHz G4 iBook, a machine easily out-classed by even the cheapest Netbook.

What reasons are there for the MacBook being so much more expensive? They both had a C2D at around 2.16GHz, 15" displays at the same resolution, and the HP had more connectivity and more RAM standard. Not to mention the HP was brand new and the MacBook was a refurb.

If Windows 7 really knocks my socks off I might have to re-think my alliance to the Mac platform for my next purchase. Back when a decent Mac tower was under 2 grand it made sense, but now.....I don't know.

What reasons? Demand, desire, resale value. As in, Macs are in demand. They are DESIREABLE. People don't really enjoy using Windows; you and I both know that OSX is vastly superior for most daily tasks, which is why that product is "worth" more, even given similar specs.

Now, I agree with you. I'd have said the same thing, "if you're used to windows, just get the HP", but only because I don't want to be bothered/pestered with Mac/Apple questions every few days. That is annoying. If you convince someone to switch, then they seem to rely on you as some Mac Expert, and unless I'm getting paid to do something like that, please, NO THANKS.

As for the 3x higher price premium... again.. RESALE VALUE. This is such a huge huge thing for me, because I will buy a new machine, and flip my old one on ebay. Yeah, I'll spend a lot more than what I can get some crappy PC for, but my old machine will go for so much that in reality I'm spending about the same.

When I had a 15" G4 iMac, I sold it for $750 on ebay, and got a 17" one with a better CPU for $900. $150 upgrade. I kept that for a year, sold that for $750, and got a G4 Quicksilver system for $1600 with a 20" LCD (which was huge at the time). When I upgraded to my 24" iMac, I wound up selling my old system in parts, and made $1400 back on it, after having it for TWO YEARS.

That's the thing Sek. Yes, they're more expensive, but the money doesn't just vanish. It HOLDS ITS VALUE, quite a long time, due to the demand.

[MrsLarry]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I told him if he was more familiar with Windows (which he is) then he might as well get the HP. That's when my other friend, who is a recent Mac switcher, chimed in and said that once you use your Mac for a while you can't imagine going back.

Agreed on both fronts. It's all a matter of preference, right? I've chosen a side, and will happily deal with the price tag. I have both a Mac and PC (running XP, yipes!!) at work, and can do everything I do on either machine, but I find myself over here on the Mac 97% of my day. (IT said it was completely unfathomable that I not have a PC at all - shenanigans!)

[sek929]

Well I mentioned the resale value and he wasn't interested in how much he could sell it for, and I'm not either. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, far from it, but I'm the type of person who buys something with the intent of keeping and using it until something bursts into flames. My old PowerMac is my dad's computer, happily chugging away after almost 9 years of heavy use...with the original HDD no less.

To me the value a Mac holds isn't in resale, but in how much longer they stay useable compared to PCs. Friends that got PCs years after I bought my PowerMac can barely use the things anymore, Windows machines seem to get so bogged down with god-knows-what after years of use that a fresh install is the only thing that'll make them run again.

My G4 went from 9.2 -> 10.0.4 -> 10.1 -> 10.2 -> 10.3 -> 10.4, two extra HDDs (first extra one failed), countless Lightwave renders, FCP, Flash, 3 different versions of PS, hundreds of gigs of movies and music deleted and re-added...and I never de-fragged the HDD or re-installed the OS and the thing still runs like a f**kin top!

If anyone can find a 2001 PC that was bought for under 1800 dollars (G4 was 1799) that still works with the original HDD and only upgraded OSes then I'll dance the charlton on top of the Sears Tower. I know the HDD thing is a crapshoot, but I'm willing to bet any PC that old needed to have the HDD formatted and Windows fresh-installed three times by now, probably more.

[mattyb]

I think that thats one of the points that really made people start to look at Apple (those that weren't already using OS X that is) is the fact that Leopard didn't need the latest and greatest hardware to run it - unlike Vista. Vista was great marketing for Apple.

[besson3c]

Is this still the case with Windows 7 and Snow Leopard?

[sek929]

Most of the tech in SL will only run on newer machines, for example my 2007 C2D iMac does not support CoreImage.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by sek929 

Most of the tech in SL will only run on newer machines, for example my 2007 C2D iMac does not support CoreImage.

Are you sure about that? Is the the Al iMac with the Radeon HD 2600 Pro? It's CoreImage compatible. Did you mean Core Animation?

[sek929]

It has the ATI Radeon HD2400. Same exact amount of VRAM (128MB) but still doesn't support CoreImage...at least that's what I think.

Edit, after visiting that link it says the 2400 XT is supported, I'm assuming that's not the same as my card?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by sek929 

It has the ATI Radeon HD2400. Same exact amount of VRAM (128MB) but still doesn't support CoreImage...at least that's what I think.

Edit, after visiting that link it says the 2400 XT is supported, I'm assuming that's not the same as my card?

That's your card. As far as I know (and MacTracker appears to confirm it), the XT is the only kind of Radeon HD 2400 that any iMac ever shipped with.

Why don't you think it supports Core Image?

[sek929]

Bah, I meant Open CL! I knew something wasn't supported.