[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

For God sake the 380 does not even have it production Cert yet. Each plane is hand certified 2.5 years after EIS.

Forgive the stupid question, but is this normal? Doesn't it take time to get a production Cert, or is this something that should have been approved 2.5 years ago?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Hehe nothing amuses me more than a besserwisser in defense.

Then this WHOLE thread should amuse you. Coming from both sides of the argument.

[analogika]

not quite.

See, "besserwisser" means "know-it-all", not necessarily somebody who *actually* knows better.

And at least one of the people on one "side" here is actually involved with BUILDING the plane in question.

And oddly, the only ones taking "sides" here are the frothing-at-the-mouth pro-Boeing-anti-Airbus morons.

As has repeatedly been pointed out, the ones in here excited about the Airbus actually love Boeing planes, as well!

[badidea]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

If you were worh it you would be working for Boeing

Shut up ---------!
(well worth an infraction) I'm glad you feel that way, because you definitely EARNED this infraction. Glenn
maybe Glenn you should also edit my quoted message or this editing here doesn't make any sense and is quite ridiculous!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika 

And oddly, the only ones taking "sides" here are the frothing-at-the-mouth pro-Boeing-anti-Airbus morons.

That above is incorrect sir. Some die-hard airbus people are being very defensive about airbus to the point of zealotry. It also wasn't the pro-Boeing people that were posting pics trying to justify Airbus's failures either.

As has repeatedly been pointed out, the ones in here excited about the Airbus actually love Boeing planes, as well!

I am not talking just about Boeing vs Airbus.

I could give a hoot about Boeing myself. I am really just talking about those that act like this plane wasn't/isn't a failure.

It may eventually get off the ground and sell to people world wide, but the planning of, and everything about including cost was all messed up. The project was kept alive because of pride.

It should have been scrapped long ago.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Buckaroo 

Forgive the stupid question, but is this normal? Doesn't it take time to get a production Cert, or is this something that should have been approved 2.5 years ago?

Yes they are lagging behind. But no one wants to talk about that. Shh!

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by badidea 

Shut up , asshole!
(well worth an infraction)

Wow, dude, you need to spend more time in Tahiti with those chicks.

[analogika]

Time better spent than getting insulted by you "experts", for sure.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

Wow, dude, you need to spend more time in Tahiti with those chicks.

Ah glideslope.. to me you seem less like a real person than an actual physical manifestation of Boeing fanaticism.

That's why you amuse me

V

[mduell]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

For God sake the 380 does not even have it production Cert yet. Each plane is hand certified 2.5 years after EIS.

The A380 hasn't EIS'd yet. Did you mean 2.5 years after roll out?

[badidea]

Originally Posted by mduell 

The A380 hasn't EIS'd yet. Did you mean 2.5 years after roll out?

The --------- also posts stuff like this

Originally Posted by glideslope 

ROFLMAO. Like designing half the 380 with CATIA V4 and half with V5 and missing the conversions. Please don't compair engineering at Boeing with Airbus.

but nobody at Airbus uses CATIA V5 to design the A380!!
This guy is just a joke!

Originally Posted by glideslope 

Wow, dude, you need to spend more time in Tahiti with those chicks.

I have never been to Tahiti either!

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by badidea 

The --------- also posts stuff like this

but nobody at Airbus uses CATIA V5 to design the A380!!
This guy is just a joke!

I have never been to Tahiti either!

Not to minimize your expertise, but the wiring issue was due to Airbus in France using V4 and the Germans using V5. There were subtle variation that led to improperly fitting connections in the wire redesign. Hence creating the name calling between France and Germany during this period.

I really would double check your sources / work location? The 380 was designed with V4 and V5. Which has played a very large part in why it has no Production Cert 2.5 past it's Photo Op.

I understand your desire to deny such claims given your vested interest in Airbus' survival.

So I'll provide a link. WorldCAD Access: Disaster Stories, Part 3

When you read statements like "translation problems between differing data systems" think Copper wire under V4 and Aluminum under V5. An unbelievable blunder from an engineering point of view, but then again you already know this because you are a 380 engineer, right?

[badidea]

Sorry, I can't find anything about CATIA V5 being used in Germany in this article!
And if it is hidden somewhere in the article then the article is wrong!

BTW, the French don't use CATIA V4!!
You even got this wrong!

Get your facts straight!

[analogika]

Nothing in that link mentions different versions of the same software, and certainly not "v4 vs. v5" of anything.

It mentions switching to aluminum from copper fairly late in the design process and inaccuracies in the digital modelling used.

The only sentence in that whole *blog* entry that refers to any sort of versioning incompatibility is, in fact, the final sentence:

It also sounds like Airbus suffered from translation problems between differing data systems.

Which is a completely random statement, given that absolutely nothing in the entire blog entry would point to that.

On the contrary - everything on that link talks about the difficulties of switching aluminum for copper, and then you get two anonymous forum posters discussing which software *might* have been used.

What's the point of linking to such armchair speculation?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by badidea 

but nobody at Airbus uses CATIA V5 to design the A380!!
This guy is just a joke!

Originally Posted by badidea 

Sorry, I can't find anything about CATIA V5 being used in Germany in this article!
And if it is hidden somewhere in the article then the article is wrong!

BTW, the French don't use CATIA V4!!
You even got this wrong!

Get your facts straight!

You're right on some points, but wrong on others.

Airbus Vows Computers Will Speak Same Language After A380 Delay (Bloomberg)

Against that backdrop, engineers in Germany and Spain stuck with an earlier version of Paris-based Dassault Systemes SA's Catia design software, even though the French and British offices had upgraded to Catia 5.

[OreoCookie]

To get get this thread back on topic: just last week Qatar has ordered 80 A350XWBs, US Airways orders 60 A320s, 8 A330s and (at least) 22 A350s. Air Berlin wants to order 25 A330s and 25 A350s to get into the long-distance market. Emirates has ordered 8 additional A380s as well.

This means there are 159 orders and 70 options of the A380 … also people, what about pictures?

[badidea]

Originally Posted by mduell 

You're right on some points, but wrong on others.[/I]

No I'm not (whatever this article says)!
Ok, I am not really sure what the English use because I have absolutely nothing to do with the wing design, or the DMU Integration of the wings!
But to get your facts straight as well:
A380 Germany - CATIA V4
A380 France - CADDS5
A350 - CATIA V5

[badidea]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

To get get this thread back on topic: just last week Qatar has ordered 80 A350XWBs, US Airways orders 60 A320s, 8 A330s and (at least) 22 A350s. Air Berlin wants to order 25 A330s and 25 A350s to get into the long-distance market. Emirates has ordered 8 additional A380s as well.

This means there are 159 orders and 70 options of the A380 … also people, what about pictures?

You forgot another 3 A380 from Qatar!
Altogether 340 airplanes just today, I think!

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by badidea 

A350 - CATIA V5

Will be on CATIA V5, as the entire 787 has been.

Sorry about the Germany, France mix up. I see Germany was V4 and France on CADDS5. Now I can see the problems with conversions.
Still no excuse however. Very poor project oversight.

Good thing they saw the light with the 350.

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

To get get this thread back on topic: just last week Qatar has ordered 80 A350XWBs, US Airways orders 60 A320s, 8 A330s and (at least) 22 A350s. Air Berlin wants to order 25 A330s and 25 A350s to get into the long-distance market. Emirates has ordered 8 additional A380s as well.

This means there are 159 orders and 70 options of the A380 … also people, what about pictures?

Which means just another 300 to the break even point. Sorry, could not resist. Let's see the orders total in Jan 08 for 07.

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Nothing in that link mentions different versions of the same software, and certainly not "v4 vs. v5" of anything.

It mentions switching to aluminum from copper fairly late in the design process and inaccuracies in the digital modelling used.

The only sentence in that whole *blog* entry that refers to any sort of versioning incompatibility is, in fact, the final sentence:



Which is a completely random statement, given that absolutely nothing in the entire blog entry would point to that.

On the contrary - everything on that link talks about the difficulties of switching aluminum for copper, and then you get two anonymous forum posters discussing which software *might* have been used.

What's the point of linking to such armchair speculation?

At the time I really did not see it as being any different than the majority of posts in here

[Troll]

^ That's because the majority of the posts in here are by you. Time and time again you prove that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Case in point is your making the same stupid statement about a production certificate that you made pages back.

Still, your lack of knowledge I can pardon. What I find appalling is your arrogance. You have the gall to insult people that clearly have far deeper knowledge about the facts than you have. What you said about Badidea's employability and his "worth" is absolutely despicable and unforgivable and you should be ashamed of yourself. You had absolutely no place making that statement. It is made even more shameful and despicable by the fact that you admit that you were wrong on the facts but make no apology for the personal insult.

[Sherman Homan]

World's biggest airliner to serve as private jet
An Airbus A380 superjumbo, has been ordered by a "mysterious" buyer for use as a private jet.
Introduces new words: binge-flying and a soon to be favorite, bling-flying!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Sherman Homan 

World's biggest airliner to serve as private jet
An Airbus A380 superjumbo, has been ordered by a "mysterious" buyer for use as a private jet.
Introduces new words: binge-flying and a soon to be favorite, bling-flying!

Gore?

[Troll]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

To get get this thread back on topic: just last week Qatar has ordered 80 A350XWBs, US Airways orders 60 A320s, 8 A330s and (at least) 22 A350s. Air Berlin wants to order 25 A330s and 25 A350s to get into the long-distance market. Emirates has ordered 8 additional A380s as well.

This means there are 159 orders and 70 options of the A380 … also people, what about pictures?

$45Bn in orders for Airbus. $4.5Bn in orders for Boeing.

[mduell]

For one week, out of 52...

[badidea]

...only 52 weeks to go!

[OreoCookie]

I'm glad that you've given him a sign, badidea (my eyes are still sore from the last pic you posted!) …

@Kevin
I doubt Gore makes enough at Apple to be able to afford it … I'm not quite sure why you've picked him, though
AFAIK 8 748 have been ordered as `business/bling jets' (as a replacement for AF1?) … I guess that's how you impress people at the country club these days.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Gore?

LOL, now that's actually funny! I didn't know you had it in you Kevin!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Gore?

Moore!

[Sherman Homan]

How else is Michael Moore gunna fly to Havana for his medical care?!

[Troll]

Originally Posted by mduell 

For one week, out of 52...

So what's the figure for year to date?

[mduell]

Too hard to keep up with the flow of orders, but both manufacturers are around 600 net units for the year.

Back in A380 news: Ethiad, who was going to take the refurbished test frames, has delayed their A380 delivery until 2013 (just like Virgin). I wonder if the test frames will go to someone else and Ethiad will get new frames, or if Airbus will let the test frames sit around for 4 years.

[mduell]

Mike Bair better explained the 787 fuselage barrel mismatch today:

"Bair explained in detail the fuselage-gap problem.

"He said the forward fuselage built by Spirit AeroSystems of Wichita, Kan., had sagged and bulged outward in one quadrant after some secondary parts were late and not put in position early enough to hold the shape.

"The distortion was corrected in Everett. Engineers disconnected the internal structure and "pushed the bulge back in," Bair said.

"He said the issue would have been much harder to fix if the plane were aluminum, which is less flexible than the 787's composite plastic."

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by mduell 

[URL="http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2003754761_airshow20.html"]
"He said the issue would have been much harder to fix if the plane were aluminum, which is less flexible than the 787's composite plastic."[/I]

Errr say what? CFRP is far far less flexible than aluminum. That's part of the reason it is being used in airplanes, because of its rigid, light structuring.

Thanks for playing Boeing apologist/fanboi.

There will be a 6 month delay (at least) of the 787. As I've said before.

V

[analogika]

Hey, cut out the aggro, voodoo.

He just posted a link (though uncommented), he didn't WRITE it.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Hey, cut out the aggro, voodoo.

He just posted a link (though uncommented), he didn't WRITE it.

He posted an uncommented link, with ambiguous reason on a topic that isn't part of this thread.

My reply was exactly as polite as his post allowed. Aggro.. that's not a word really, is it? German slang?

V

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Aggro.. that's not a word really, is it? German slang?

Aggro is an abbreviation for aggravation and is used in role playing games such as WOW a lot. I guess it has trickled down to everyday language.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by glideslope 

It was a problem with Kawasaki stuffing section 41 causing an out of round condition. Thing were undone, repositioned and refastened. Every other section has fit perfectly.

.

Originally Posted by mduell 

"Bair explained in detail the fuselage-gap problem.

"He said the forward fuselage built by Spirit AeroSystems of Wichita, Kan.,... "

Hmm, guess who's got the wrong "facts"...again!
(FYI, Section 41 is the forward fuselage)

Kawasaki builds section 43

[analogika]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Aggro is an abbreviation for aggravation and is used in role playing games such as WOW a lot. I guess it has trickled down to everyday language.

Feel free to criticise my semantics, though I'm pretty sure you understood exactly what I meant.

And in German, it's a short form for "aggression" or "aggressive", either noun or adjective.

Apparently, it is in English, as well: aggro - definition of aggro by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

There's also a brand of particularly stupid, aggressive "hip-hop" from Berlin on a label called "Aggro Berlin", but that just on the side. (please note that I stuck the "hip-hop" in quotes because I'm perfectly aware that there is plenty out there with considerable brainage behind it; but the Aggro Berlin stuff simply does not qualify.)

[OreoCookie]

I know aggro from WOW basically, but I haven't heard it anywhere else. Since I'm no expert at these things, I'm not aware of its roots. I haven't heard it being used in German either (again outside WOW).

I don't mind learning new stuff

Edit: in the link you provided it said (on the bottom): short for aggravation or aggression.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

I know aggro from WOW basically, but I haven't heard it anywhere else. Since I'm no expert at these things, I'm not aware of its roots. I haven't heard it being used in German either (again outside WOW).

I don't mind learning new stuff

Edit: in the link you provided it said (on the bottom): short for aggravation or aggression.

Well, there is "der war ganz schön aggro drauf" in regular, colloquial German. Perhaps I've just been more exposed to the term, having lived in St. Pauli for six years...

[Troll]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

Aggro is an abbreviation for aggravation and is used in role playing games such as WOW a lot. I guess it has trickled down to everyday language.

Aggro has been a word in South African English for as long as I've been around. But it means aggressiveness rather than aggravation.

[analogika]

Aggravation, noun: "3 - A cause of annoyance or irritation."

In that sense, partial homonyms.


Anyway, I'm sure voodoo has learned something today.


Let's get back to airplanes.

Can you believe that I live only a couple of hundred yards from the Airbus factory, yet I've never managed to see an A380 live?

Do these things really exist? Or are they elaborate TV hoaxes, like the moon landings?

[badidea]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Can you believe that I live only a couple of hundred yards from the Airbus factory, yet I've never managed to see an A380 live?

I believe you!
I'm not sure but I think there's only MSN3 right now in Hamburg (and mostly indoors) - I haven't seen one myself for quite a while!

[Troll]

I'm seein' me some A380 goodness on Sunday. Off to Le Bourget.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by analogika 

Aggravation, noun: "3 - A cause of annoyance or irritation."

In that sense, partial homonyms.


Anyway, I'm sure voodoo has learned something today.

hehe, yes I did. Thanks a bunch for the tangent.

Let's get back to airplanes.

Can you believe that I live only a couple of hundred yards from the Airbus factory, yet I've never managed to see an A380 live?

Do these things really exist? Or are they elaborate TV hoaxes, like the moon landings?

Ah it will soon be in service.. at the end of this year or the very beginning of next year 380s will grace the skies in revenue flights.

After all this time, it is hard to believe. Kind of like the first flight. I'll never forget the moment I saw the 380 lift off for the first time in the live webcast.

In a year or two the 380s will be very real and very normal to see at the largest airports of the world. I can't wait

V

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Too hard to keep up with the flow of orders, but both manufacturers are around 600 net units for the year.

Back in A380 news: Ethiad, who was going to take the refurbished test frames, has delayed their A380 delivery until 2013 (just like Virgin). I wonder if the test frames will go to someone else and Ethiad will get new frames, or if Airbus will let the test frames sit around for 4 years.

Yes, the Airbus orgy is over and look at the totals? Not really anything there. Paris has always been Airbus's day. Watch the Boeing order sheets updates over the next 6m. Airbus also has to be very careful about over production. Any slowdown leading to deferred deliveries could be a problem (Boeing in the 80's.)

I don't think anyone want's the test frames, and with good reason IMO.

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by Troll 

^ That's because the majority of the posts in here are by you. Time and time again you prove that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Case in point is your making the same stupid statement about a production certificate that you made pages back.

Still, your lack of knowledge I can pardon. What I find appalling is your arrogance. You have the gall to insult people that clearly have far deeper knowledge about the facts than you have. What you said about Badidea's employability and his "worth" is absolutely despicable and unforgivable and you should be ashamed of yourself. You had absolutely no place making that statement. It is made even more shameful and despicable by the fact that you admit that you were wrong on the facts but make no apology for the personal insult.

Nor did I ask for an apology for the profanity frequently posted in here.

I have no problem admitting being incorrect as with confusing the Vaught and Kawasaki sections. As far as being arrogant I still feel Airbus is one of the worst run unaccountable entities today. They survive by suckling the breasts of the EU taxpayer, and have no accountability for making serious errors.

However, I understand why the system is the way it is. You need to keep EU unity, hence the need for 2 CEO's and such. With Russia trying to grab EADS it's logical for the time being. However, the constant errors, and inabilities to meet goals on time is not sustainable over the long run. The 320 and 330, both are airframes I admire. The 320 is really the only cash cow. Airbus needs to be careful investing millions in production increases. A Y1 announcement in late summer 08 could be a huge problem with over capacity. Most 330's are going for about 8% over cost, IMO. Simply unsustainable without the EU system.

[glideslope]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

hehe, yes I did. Thanks a bunch for the tangent.



Ah it will soon be in service.. at the end of this year or the very beginning of next year 380s will grace the skies in revenue flights.

After all this time, it is hard to believe. Kind of like the first flight. I'll never forget the moment I saw the 380 lift off for the first time in the live webcast.

In a year or two the 380s will be very real and very normal to see at the largest airports of the world. I can't wait

V

Only if it lives up to claims after a year of revenue service. If it does then you will see more NEW operators, and the 748i will go away. The 748F will still sell good numbers. If not then Boeing's strategy of investing (R&D already coverd with current orders) in the 748i/F to cripple the 380 will be successful. It was enough to pressure the indefinite delay of the 380F parcel carrier to get the pax airframe in the air.