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Troll · Jun 26, 2007, 06:16 AM

So Tony Blair leaves office next week. A politician who ruined his career and his legacy by abdicating decision-making to an incompetent in the White House. A great pity, imho. Until his disastrous decision to back war in Iraq, he was a reasonably good leader. In Europe, his legacy will certainly be of one who never lived up to his promise. I suspect the US will see him differently.

Doofy · Jun 26, 2007, 06:49 AM

Originally Posted by Troll

So Tony Blair leaves office next week.

Tomorrow, actually.

Originally Posted by Troll

Until his disastrous decision to back war in Iraq, he was a reasonably good leader.

No. He's always been a tosser. Leaving Iraq aside, he's been the worst prime minister in the last 100 years-odd.

Originally Posted by Troll

In Europe, his legacy will certainly be of one who never lived up to his promise.

He lived up to his promise just fine. Every Labour government in the UK always turns everything to crap - this is the Labour promise.

Doofy · Jun 26, 2007, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by JonoMarshall

Initially, you could argue that he was a beacon of hope surely?

A beacon of hope for those who don't know any better, perhaps.

JonoMarshall · Jun 26, 2007, 07:37 AM

No. He's always been a tosser. Leaving Iraq aside, he's been the worst prime minister in the last 100 years-odd.

Initially, you could argue that he was a beacon of hope surely? All that charisma, all that celebrating when Labour came in, we thought christmas had come early...

Troll · Jun 26, 2007, 08:05 AM

I think he was a good leader when he was doing the leading. He lost the plot when he decided to delegate authority over foreign policy to George Bush.

Doofy · Jun 26, 2007, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Troll

I think he was a good leader when he was doing the leading.

So the fact that he's introduced one new law every 3.5 hours during his 10 year term and turned the country into a dystopian craphole is completely lost on you?

Troll · Jun 26, 2007, 10:00 AM

Yes, it is.

JonoMarshall · Jun 26, 2007, 10:12 AM

I've heard that law nonsense before, are there any comparisons/reasoning online? I'm drawing blanks and seem to remember that many of the laws were EU related, or some sort of excuse thingimy jiggy!?

Doofy · Jun 26, 2007, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by JonoMarshall

I'm drawing blanks and seem to remember that many of the laws were EU related

That figure is without the added EU legislation. If you add the EU stuff, it's approximately one new law every two hours.

Originally Posted by Ayn Rand

There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.

peeb · Jun 26, 2007, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Every Labour government in the UK always turns everything to crap - this is the Labour promise.

Care to elaborate on that? Sounds like a particularly ill-informed over generalization to me.

Doofy · Jun 26, 2007, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by peeb

Care to elaborate on that?

No, not really. I haven't got the time to produce a 300-page document about why Labour are crap.

You can start your research here though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent

And perhaps end it here:
http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Neu_Arbeit

peeb · Jun 26, 2007, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

No, not really. I haven't got the time to produce a 300-page document about why Labour are crap.

You can start your research here though:
Winter of Discontent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And perhaps end it here:
Neu Arbeit - ARRSEpedia

Ah. As I thought. You are making the error of generalising from 'Some Labour government have turned some things to crap' to 'Every Labour government in the UK always turns everything to crap'. To prove your point, you need not to show that some labour governments have turned some things to crap, but that ALL labour governments have turned ALL things to crap. As you admit, you cannot do that.

Doofy · Jun 26, 2007, 11:06 AM

Or you could just go read Animal Farm. That's a pretty good assessment of how things are.

Doofy · Jun 26, 2007, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by peeb

As you admit, you cannot do that.

No. Like I said, I haven't got the time to do that.

The subject is so huge that it'd take a couple of years to do it (and it'd end up turning into a 50,000 page document relating Labour mindset to Marxism and how that also turns everything to crap because it's against human nature, thus leading the document into all sorts of areas).

I bet I could if I tried. Maybe it'll give me something to do to while away the hours if they ever lock me up for liking freedom a bit too much.

peeb · Jun 26, 2007, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Or you could just go read Animal Farm. That's a pretty good assessment of how things are.

Perhaps, but totally unrelated to your claim about 'Every Labour government in the UK always turns everything to crap'.

peeb · Jun 26, 2007, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

No. Like I said, I haven't got the time to do that.

The subject is so huge that it'd take a couple of years to do it (and it'd end up turning into a 50,000 page document relating Labour mindset to Marxism and how that also turns everything to crap because it's against human nature, thus leading the document into all sorts of areas).

I bet I could if I tried. Maybe it'll give me something to do to while away the hours if they ever lock me up for liking freedom a bit too much.

Yes, thanks for playing. 'I could if I tried' doesn't cut it though. It's ok to admit you're wrong.

Doofy · Jun 26, 2007, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by peeb

It's ok to admit you're wrong.

If I was wrong I'd admit it. I'm not wrong though.

Even the quickest glance through 20th Century British politics show that.

peeb · Jun 26, 2007, 12:03 PM

Erm, no. You fundamentally miss the point. I don't think any rational reading of 20th Century politics would conclude that 'Every Labour government in the UK always turns everything to crap'.

Doofy · Jun 26, 2007, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

I don't think any rational reading of 20th Century politics would conclude that 'Every Labour government in the UK always turns everything to crap'.

And I think it would.

peeb · Jun 26, 2007, 12:33 PM

Well, you're entitled to your delusions, but I challenge you to find ANY respectable historian who agrees.

nath · Jun 27, 2007, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Or you could just go read Animal Farm. That's a pretty good assessment of how things are.

Actually it's a pretty good assessment of the Russian revolution. Orwell explicitly said himself that it wasn't a commentary on the 'British Labour party'.

But you know that don't you, having been comprehensively smacked down on exactly the same point previously.

http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...t/#post3267357

peeb · Jun 27, 2007, 05:09 PM

It's pretty tiresome. No matter how often or how hard Doofy gets smacked down, how often people point him to the facts, every thread it's the same garbage.

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by nath

Actually it's a pretty good assessment of the Russian revolution. Orwell explicitly said himself that it wasn't a commentary on the 'British Labour party'.

It's a pretty good assessment of both, actually. Orwell hasn't been around for the last 10 years to comment, has he?

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

It's pretty tiresome. No matter how often or how hard Doofy gets smacked down, how often people point him to the facts, every thread it's the same garbage.

One day (probably in the distant future) you'll wake up, take a look around and you'll say to yourself: "feck, that Doofy bloke was right".

Promise.

peeb · Jun 27, 2007, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

One day (probably in the distant future) you'll wake up, take a look around and you'll say to yourself: "feck, that Doofy bloke was right".
Promise.

It's possible, in the distant future, that you might be right about something, but to date, you've been 100% wrong about everything. So I'm not holding my breath for the day when you accidentally stumble onto something true.

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

It's possible, in the distant future, that you might be right about something, but to date, you've been 100% wrong about everything.

Nope. You only think I've been wrong about things because, quite frankly, you're not really aware of your surroundings.

peeb · Jun 27, 2007, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

Nope. You only think I've been wrong about things because, quite frankly, you're not really aware of your surroundings.

Are you off your meds again?

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

Are you off your meds again?

What a moronic comeback. Couldn't you have thought up something a little more original?

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 06:08 PM

Let's see Peeb.

Yesterday, on the 26th, Troll posted (in this thread):

Originally Posted by Troll

So Tony Blair leaves office next week.

Yesterday, on the 26th, I corrected (in this thread):

Originally Posted by Doofy

Tomorrow, actually.

And on the "tomorrow" mentioned (i.e. today), Tony Blair did in fact leave office. So I'm 100% correct about that.

However, today, on the 27th - after said event - you state (in this thread):

Originally Posted by peeb

to date, you've been 100% wrong about everything.

Since this is clearly an incorrect statement, you're either prone to telling porkies or simply not sufficiently aware of your surroundings.

peeb · Jun 27, 2007, 06:10 PM

There is nothing original to say to your continuously trotting out the same old tired, disproved nonsense. Constantly being abused by a borderline retard is tiresome, and I genuinely wonder whether you need to look at your medical regime. Your continued tenacious attachment to obvious bankrupt ideas looks like a form of mental illness to me.

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

There is nothing original to say to your continuously trotting out the same old tired, disproved nonsense. Constantly being abused by a borderline retard is tiresome, and I genuinely wonder whether you need to look at your medical regime. Your continued tenacious attachment to obvious bankrupt ideas looks like a form of mental illness to me.

More porkies, or more insufficient awareness? Which is it?

peeb · Jun 27, 2007, 06:21 PM

Neither. You are wrong, you have been shown, by many people to be wrong. You refuse to admit it, instead insisting that the rest of the world is at fault, not you.

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

Neither. You are wrong, you have been shown, by many people to be wrong. You refuse to admit it, instead insisting that the rest of the world is at fault, not you.

Nath (my pet stalker) is "many people"?

I've clearly demonstrated up there that your view about my being "wrong about everything" is complete fantasy. Given the evidence there, it'd suggest that you're prone to either bending the truth to suit or you're off with the fairies.

So which is it? Are you a lying sack of **** or a mental case?

peeb · Jun 27, 2007, 06:42 PM

So wait. You want to be forgiven your constant steam of inane drivel because you knew which day Tony Blair was leaving? My goodness, what prodigious mental powers you have. Unfortunately you fail to take the fact that you are "wrong about everything" in the context of your judgments about politics. The fact that you can read a newspaper, and know that Wednesday comes after Tuesday is not relevant to your predictions about totalitarianism. Get a grip.

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

So wait. You want to be forgiven your constant steam of inane drivel because you knew which day Tony Blair was leaving?

No no no. I don't seek, or need, forgiveness. You stated that I was "100% wrong about everything". Since this statement about something which is right in front of your nose is evidently incorrect, you must either be full of **** or mental. Which is it?

besson3c · Jun 27, 2007, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

No no no. I don't seek, or need, forgiveness. You stated that I was "100% wrong about everything". Since this statement about something which is right in front of your nose is evidently incorrect, you must either be full of **** or mental. Which is it?

If you are really interested in convincing people you are right, some good advice would be to transcend your basic desires to call people names such as "full of ****" or "mental". Otherwise, you appear to lack confidence in your intellectual ability, and moreover come across as abrasive and obnoxious.

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 07:04 PM

**** off Bessie.

besson3c · Jun 27, 2007, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

**** off Bessie.

Very well then... I guess you won't be transcending anything today.

Mastrap · Jun 27, 2007, 07:14 PM

I lived in London when Blair got elected and after the disaster of the late Thatcher years followed by the farce that was John Major's government Tony was a beacon of hope. And he delivered. He broke the union's power far more efficiently, and from within, than Thatcher had ever managed, he was the first Labour PM who managed to keep the economy on track and to convince the business community that a Labour government did not mean that everything would turn to crap.

I think three re-elections, and a fourth likely, show that Labour has shed the old ways and is now a serious and credible political power.

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I lived in London when Blair got elected and after the disaster of the late Thatcher years followed by the farce that was John Major's government Tony was a beacon of hope. And he delivered. He broke the union's power far more efficiently, and from within, than Thatcher had ever managed, he was the first Labour PM who managed to keep the economy on track and to convince the business community that a Labour government did not mean that everything would turn to crap.

So good, in fact, that you emigrated.

peeb · Jun 27, 2007, 07:41 PM

How do you deduce that he emigrated?

Doofy · Jun 27, 2007, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

How do you deduce that he emigrated?

Voodoo. And other such jiggery pokery.

Mastrap · Jun 27, 2007, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

So good, in fact, that you emigrated.

That, in all fairness, had little to do with the Blair government. The dot com years were good to me and I was even lucky enough to buy a house in central London at an affordable price. I had little to complain about. Moving to Canada had been on the cards for many years, it was just that the time had never been right.

nath · Jun 28, 2007, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

the first Labour PM who managed to keep the economy on track and to convince the business community that a Labour government did not mean that everything would turn to crap.

I think three re-elections, and a fourth likely, show that Labour has shed the old ways and is now a serious and credible political power.

Indeed. Doofy's equation of the longest period of continuous post-war economic growth with 'everything turning to crap' under every Labour government is bizarre, and this time around (after 10 years of a Labour government) seems to be verging on wishful thinking. You have to wonder about the mentality of someone who wants his country to fail, in order to prop up his own preconceptions.

Originally Posted by Doofy

So good, in fact, that you emigrated.

Funny, I'm sure someone else on these pages used to talk a lot about doing the same, due primarily to his dislike of teh eviiiiil communists...but then went very quiet when being questioned on the details. Perhaps he's still struggling to sell off those 'businesses'.

By the way, how has your property value fared under this disastrous socialist dystopia? Be honest now!

Doofy · Jun 28, 2007, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by nath

Indeed. Doofy's equation of the longest period of continuous post-war economic growth with 'everything turning to crap' under every Labour government is bizarre, and this time around (after 10 years of a Labour government) seems to be verging on wishful thinking. You have to wonder about the mentality of someone who wants his country to fail, in order to prop up his own preconceptions.

There's no economic growth - it's all smoke and mirrors. Go check the trade deficit.

Originally Posted by nath

Funny, I'm sure someone else on these pages used to talk a lot about doing the same, due primarily to his dislike of teh eviiiiil communists...but then went very quiet when being questioned on the details. Perhaps he's still struggling to sell off those 'businesses'.

Nope. Businesses sold, assets offshored. Just waiting for the right property to come up.

Originally Posted by nath

By the way, how has your property value fared under this disastrous socialist dystopia? Be honest now!

Very well, thanks. So good, in fact, that it's really screwed up the bottom of the housing market and millions of people can't get onto the property ladder.

Kevin · Jun 28, 2007, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Troll

I think he was a good leader when he was doing the leading. He lost the plot when he decided to delegate authority over foreign policy to George Bush.

Yes this was Bush's fault too. Someone fix the broken records in here.

Powerbook · Jun 28, 2007, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Doofy

And perhaps end it here:
Neu Arbeit - ARRSEpedia

What a RIDICULOUS CRAP:
"Neu Arbeit
Deutsch for New Labour. Short of sticking six million Jews on gas mark six for ten minutes, this political elite's agenda is staggeringly similar to the NSDAP. You just wait and see me ol' mucker! "

No, that's not what it means in Deutsch,
No, gassing the Jews is probably not meant and
No, it doesn't show any connection to a fascist party like the NSDAP.

What a loser.

PB.

Powerbook · Jun 28, 2007, 07:53 AM

Maybe Merkel can take over?
Got to love Steve Bell...

PB.

nonhuman · Jun 28, 2007, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Powerbook

What a RIDICULOUS CRAP:
"Neu Arbeit
Deutsch for New Labour. Short of sticking six million Jews on gas mark six for ten minutes, this political elite's agenda is staggeringly similar to the NSDAP. You just wait and see me ol' mucker! "

No, that's not what it means in Deutsch,
No, gassing the Jews is probably not meant and
No, it doesn't show any connection to a fascist party like the NSDAP.

What a loser.

PB.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Arbeit means 'work', which is decently close to 'labor'. Obviously it's not a perfect translation, but it was also clearly chosen because not only is it close enough to be understood, but it sets up a very obvious comparison with certain, less than desirable, policies.

Mastrap · Jun 28, 2007, 10:50 AM

It's nonsense, pure and simple. Scare tactics that have nothing to do with reality. I enjoy a good political discussion, but this is just FUD.